Five-Sided Town Forum Mafia Setup

[Fragos]

Previously, I had complaints about how much "Forum Magic: The Gathering" is not Mafia alike. As such, I decided to redesign my setup entirely! Now, the new setup should be perfectly fit in the current "Mafia" environment!

In this setup, there will 5 teams. Five! And each team will have 3 members. Plus there will be 5 neutral "citizens" which goal will be either to survive or support the team that they have decided to favor.

Those 5 teams are: Police Department, Town Militia, The Outlaws, Mafia, and The Tycoons. With 5 teams, that make 15 players total, so the remaining 5 players will be neutral Citizens. Here is the full setup:

Police Member
Police Member
Police Member

Militia Member
Militia Member
Militia Member

Outlaw Member
Outlaw Member
Outlaw Member

Mafia Member
Mafia Member
Mafia Member

Tycoon Member
Tycoon Member
Tycoon Member

Citizen
Citizen
Citizen
Citizen
Citizen/Random Neutral

The primary goal of each team is to defeat their corresponding enemies and then at least one member of the team must survive until the game ends. Here is how it looks:

The Police must lynch or kill all Outlaws and Mafia
The Militia must lynch or kill all Mafia and Tycoons
The Outlaws must lynch or kill all Tycoons and Police
The Mafia must lynch or kill all Police and Militia
The Tycoons must lynch or kill all Militia and Outlaws

It is possible to make alliances between some teams. No more than 2 teams can win the game (for example Police & Tycoons, or Militia & Outlaws). Another example is, that if you are on Mafia Team, you can choose to ally with Outlaws or Tycoons, but not both, since they are hostile to each other. Also, it is entirely possible for one single team to be the sole winner of the game. Winning for yourself is always better than sharing your victory with others.

Due to the way the teams are set up, the voting system is changed. It now becomes a single majority. Whoever gets the most votes when day ends will be lynched. (and I will introduce soon The Mastermind which presence can shatter alliances).

Now that the new team mechanic is explained, I will move out soon to roles and abilities that each team has.

[Fragos]

ROLE LIST AND TEAM ABILITIES


Police Department

Shared Ability:
Check Background: Check target player for being a member of Mafia or Outlaws. Anyone else will show up as "not suspicious". Only one member of Police team can use this ability at night.

Possible Roles:

Sheriff: Basic role, can only use shared ability.
Sleuth: Can read target player's last will. Also can learn the exact role of a dead player.
Detective: Check target player to see who was visited by him.
Coroner: Autopsy target dead person to see his exact role, last will, and history of night actions.
Jailor: Jails target person, roleblocking and locking him out of team chats. The jailed person gains night immunity. Jailor can make 1 execution.
Bodyguard: Chooses one player to protect and one person to keep an eye on. Will kill the attacker and sacrifice his life unless he kept an eye on the attacker.


Town Militia

Shared Ability:
Recruit: If target player is a Citizen, he becomes Mason after being recruited. If all three original members of Militia die, the Militia team loses and Masons revert back to neutral Citizens (losing faith in Militia). Non-Citizens will be notified that someone tried to recruit then, and if you try to visit a member of Mafia or Tycoons, he will know your identity. Only one member of Militia team can use this ability at night.


Possible roles:

Mason: Basic role, can only use shared ability. Citizens will turn into Masons after being recruited.
Vigilante: Can kill a person at night. Limited to 2 shots.
Doctor: Can heal any person, including his own teammates.
Lookout: Can watch a person to see who visited him this night.
Mason Leader: Will appear as Mason to investigative roles.
Armorsmith: Gives armor to target player. Your target cannot be member of Militia (but he can be Citizen beforehand). If your target is member of another team, that player's whole team can decide who will use the armor next night.


The Outlaws

Shared Ability:
Ignite and Burn: Douses target player (who will be notified), or burn up all doused targets. Only one member of Outlaw team can use this ability at night.

Possible roles:

Outlaw: Basic role, can only use shared ability.
Drug Dealer: Drugs target player, making him to believe that he was doused, charged, bribed, switched, or roleblocked.
Escort: Roleblock target player, preventing him from performing any actions.
Electro Maniac: Charges target player, or kill already charged player. When one charged person visits another, they both electrocute.
Framer: Frames target player, giving investigative roles false information either at random, or at Framer's choice.
Grave Robber: Robs target player's grave and immediately uses his ability. Each grave can be pillaged only once.


The Mafia

Shared Ability:
License to Kill: Kill target player at night. Only one member of Mafia team can use this ability at night.

Roles:

Mafioso: Basic role, can only use shared ability.
Godfather: Immune all kinds of detection, will show up as inactive Citizen to investigative roles.
Janitor: Cleans the target's role and last will. Limited to 2 cleanings.
Blackmailer: Blackmails target person, preventing him from talking. Does not prevent him to vote.
Consigliere: Learns target player's exact role.
Actress: At night targets a player. When Actress dies, will appear as that target's role.


The Tycoons:

Shared Ability:
Bribe: Bribe target player with large sum of money, alluring him to visit another target player or do nothing (effectively roleblocking him). Briber can notify the victim who is his new target. Only one member of Tycoon team can use this ability at night.

Roles:
Tycoon: Basic role, can only use shared ability.
Security Guard: Can go on alert up to 2 times. Will kill anyone (not in Tycoon team) who tries to visit him. Will NOT kill players that were bribed to visit him.
Bus Driver: Can switch two target players. Can target teammates as well (including Security Guard on alert).
Merchant: Target one player and leak that player's exact role to another player. Cannot leak Tycoon roles or give information to Tycoon members.
Gunsmith: Gives gun to target player. Your target cannot be member of Tycoons. If your target is member of another team, that player's whole team can decide who will use the gun next night. Extra shot can be used by Mafia as well.
Lawyer: Rewrites target player's last will or erases it. Also works for duration of next day, unless target decided to change last will or erase it.


Neutral Roles (more is possible with larger count of players):

Citizen: Can choose a faction to side with on first night. To win, he needs either to help that faction win, or just survive until the game ends.
Jester: His goal is to make town lynch him at day.
Amnesiac: Can remember any role from a graveyard. Must pick a role in order to enable his win condition. New role is revealed to town.
Serial Killer: His goal is to kill anyone else except for Neutral Roles.
Student: Becomes a disciple of target player, and learns his alignment. Has the same win condition as his mentor, and gets his role if mentor dies. New role is revealed to town.

[Goremancer]

:o Looks intriguing. I like how the different factions can win together and make alliances. Of course such alliances can be very fragile. But that's what makes it interesting.

[Rihfok]

This looks really interesting. But if it says 5 citizens, why neutrals? Does that mean some of them may not be citizens, but neutrals?

[FrostByte]

This looks like it would be pretty awesome.
I'd definitely play.

[Rihfok]

And just to make sure, this will go to setup approvals once you finish with your other FM?

[clementine]

Oh, I would like to play this one!

[Fragos]

Don't forget The Mastermind!

He can hide inside any of the five teams. He can be disguised as as any of the roles that his team can do. The Mastermind's goal it to see all other teams lose. Even winning with his team is a partial victory; a Mastermind should always aim for the full victory if possible. The only ones that Mastermind does not need to kill are neutral roles. On the other side, if Mastermind dies, his former teammates can form alliances with friendlt teams again.

The Mastermind cannot be killed at night, and investigative roles will only see him as role that he is currently disguised as. He can use his disguised role's ability, his "team" shared ability, plus for each team that loses the game, he gains that team's ability (he gains Bribe after Tycoons lose or Recruit after Militia lose). Of course, he can only use one action at once.

Citizens that were recruited directly by The Mastermind will be affilated with him instead of Militia, unless he specifies to recruit then as Masons (while disguised as member of Town Militia).


The Mastermind's primary goal should be to find and eliminate the Mafia first, so that he can kill other people himself after Mafia lose (unless he is a member of Mafia already).

[Rihfok]

Okay, I don't really see the use of the basic roles, since they will always just the shared abilities, while the other two will always use their special abilities, with the exception of Chief of Police, since he doesn't have a night ability. As a suggestion, I say basic roles should be removed, and only the more advanced would be left, so each night the all factions would have to actually choose who uses the shared ability (if anyone).

[Fragos]

The role list might not be full. Anyway, basic roles are just there so that other active roles won't dispute about who will use their team's base action first. Although it is still possible for both basic and advanced role to appear in game.

[Luna]

I don't know why you re-skinned this Fragos. I wasn't aware that the RP was the issue, maybe people were saying it wasn't 'Mafia' enough because it doesn't resemble the actual mechanics of the game of Mafia?

[Rihfok]

I don't know why you re-skinned this Fragos. I wasn't aware that the RP was the issue, maybe people were saying it wasn't 'Mafia' enough because it doesn't resemble the actual mechanics of the game of Mafia?

I'm assuming you really don't like this.

Well, atleast it looks really new...

But, you don't like so no approval...

[Luna]

That's not how it works Rihfok, I do not take partisan views

But the setup he suggested before was pretty much the same setup only using Magic: The Gathering as a theme. When people said it wasn't 'Mafia' enough I think Fragos misconstrued it.

[Rihfok]

Okay, I'll stop...
I'm just saying it looked pretty new, but I guess I didn't see the older setup of his.
And how am I partisan?
Well, nevermind. I shall think more about the setups then.

P.S. When will you update that games list?

[Nick]

Traditional Mafia is "BLACK and WHITE".

Fragos's setup is "COLORFUL".

FMVI is "shades of GRAY".

[Luna]

Okay, I'll stop...
I'm just saying it looked pretty new, but I guess I didn't see the older setup of his.
And how am I partisan?
Well, nevermind. I shall think more about the setups then.

P.S. When will you update that games list?

No no I was just saying I'm not partisan, my personal preferences don't affect my approvals process If it did then I'd probably be approving a lot more setups.

I don't see what I need to edit either. Aside from Fragos' new signups thread there's been little change.

[Fragos]

Well, I'll give some answers to Luna.

First of all, I redesigned 5-sided setup so that players could understand the basic gameplay more easier. Look at the role list here and at the "spell and abilities" list in Forum Magic. With well-knows roles from traditional Mafia format this setup should be much more appealing than "Magic", especially for newer players in Forum Mafia community.

Just look at Rihfok. He came to like my new setup so much that he started to defend me from Luna, even though he did not knew that I already made a "5-side" setup before. And Nick said that this setup is colorful while other are pretty much black and white (with gray colors splashed in).

You all know that Mafia is a game of lies and deception. If in previous setups Mafia were focred to lie and town roles largely speaked only truth, then this game will be a great challenge. Almost everyone will be forced to lie or at least hide their identity. Just think what will happen in game:

A Sheriff from Police team detects member of Mafia. What he will do? If he reveals himself as Sheriff, he will be under threat of being killed by Mafia or Outlaws. The only roles that can protect him (outside of Bodyguard) are Doctor, Armorsmith, and Bus Driver, but they are located in other teams. The only ones who will vote against Mafia will be probably Militia, Police and some of the players that are afraid of being shot. But if you vote against Mafia, other teams can pinpoint your alignment, and if you don't vote Mafia, you will be also under suspicion... Also, the voting system is a simple majority; therefore it is posssible to outvote Sheriff with votes of Mafia, Outlaws, and few other players for their own gains (such as Tycoons or Mastermind).

Needless to say, it is top priority for team members to hide their alignment at all costs. The best way to do that is to pretend being one of the citizens. But of course this will be more diffucult as the game keeps progressing. The first two teams that make a succesful alliance will pave their way to victory with ease. (and imagine what happens when team like Mafia and Tycoons will team up like that). The Mastermind exists specifically from that reason - as long as he is alive, alliances will be very difficult to hold. At the same time he is the "hidden enemy" that all 5 teams will frantically search for, and for the most of the game town will probably keep searching for Mastermind, while at the same time hiding their identities from each other.

I imagine this will be an amusing game for everyone.

[Rihfok]

Just look at Rihfok. He came to like my new setup so much that he started to defend me from Luna, even though he did not knew that I already made a "5-side" setup before.

Don't put me into this, I've got a reputation to protect.
Oh wait, I'm still new here.
Well... I've got a reputation to make.
Luna is a stronger ally here.
...I don't sound like myself anymore.

Is this a battle?
I haven't really chosen a side yet

[Fragos]

Anyway, this is the game that I intend to send to setup approvals when the right time comes.

[Nick]

Meh... lots of battles here...

Host vs mod: during setup approval
Host vs host: competing for rights and players
Player vs host: complaining about OP and fail
Player vs player: in-game

They are funny to watch.

Anyway, this subforum is for forum mafia, and obviously Luna will want to make sure that setups stick to the spirit of Mafia and are balanced. Problem is also exacerbated by players not understanding the change in balance, use the wrong strategy and blame the setup for being broken. Especially true for new setups and game mechanics. Have happened before and will happen again. Involve too many players in a fail game and there are bound to be loads of complaints - during the game and after the game.

[Luna]

Hehe no battles here, except against those pesky trolls! We just want fun games xD We did vote for M-FMVII.

[Nick]

Nick's Guide to Evolution of Mafia

0) Mafioso vs Citizens
1) Add in Sheriff, Doctor and Escort/Consort
2) Add more Mafia and Town power roles
3) Sprinkle in Neutral factions
4) More Neutral roles
5) Add Cult
6) Lets have Mafia and Mafia
7) Increase complexity of rules and abilities
8) Toss in special RP roles
9) Tweak metagame

[Nick]

To summarize:

MFMI: Standard + New role (Journalist)
MFMII: Standard + New role (Electromaniac)
MFMIII: Standard + RP roles (Cyclons)
MFMIV: Complex rules and abilities (RP mechanics + Dual ability)
MFMV: Tweak metagame (RP mechanics + FMVIv2)
MFMVI: Dual Mafia + New roles

[Goremancer]

Hehe no battles here, except against those pesky trolls! We just want fun games xD We did vote for M-FMVII.

I see no trolls. Peace forever?

[ajkei]

The Mafia

Shared Ability:
License to Kill: Kill target player at night. Only one member of Mafia team can use this ability at night.

License to Kill

[Fragos]

Any feedback will be appreciated. What you would like to change in this setup to make it more balanced? What extra roles can be added for each faction? Feel free to suggest your ideas releated to Five-Side Mafia.

[clementine]

Hmm, in my opinion, I would first start out with a 5-sided game with 3 of each type and 5 other citizens. The factions each only have their shared action instead of all the specialized roles (i.e. Busdriver, Jailor, etc.) I would remove the sk/neutrals and the mastermind just for the sake of learning and testing strategies in a "simple" 5 sided game. Only after people are comfortable with the strategies involved in a 5-sided game should the mastermind and more complicated things be added.

I think this very basic 5 sided game would be pretty balanced.
Red team has the power to kill
Orange team has the power of arson
Green team has the power of masons
Blue team has power of detect suspicious/not suspicious
Purple has power of role block... (I might actually give the purple team a jail cell to interrogate people in while role blocking them.)

I think the problem is that you keep adding things that make your setup more and more confusing! It sounds fun but we can try to build up to the complexity b/c that might be a lot easier for everyone involved. :]

[Kromos]

I still really like this setup, especially now it is based on mafia roles instead of spells. It could be a massive failure but we won't know unless we try it.

[Fragos]

I think clementine is right, we should try the more simple setup, with 5 citizens and without Mastermind. Other active roles will stiil be in the game though. Then, if everyone takes a liking to this kind of game, I'll make an "encore", this time with addition of Mastermind and neutral roles like Journalist (who can be converted), Jester, Amnesiac or Student.

Also, in addition to active players I plan to invite other people (like Luna) to observe this game. Of course observers will be able to read all team chats and predict how the game will flow. Another interesting feature is that this kind of game is less sucseptive to gamethrowing - if all faction members are revealed by non-game reated reasons, they can still use "diplomacy" in order to stay alive.

[Rihfok]

Well, now that Luna isn't here and Capitalier moding the M_FM forums, this is kinda the only chance of this getting approved.
I guess I would participate in this, but after the game I'll decide what I think about it.
Well, assuming that Capitalier will approve this...

[TheJackofSpades]

I think mechanically this setup is very interesting and fairly sound.

But I don't think it'll ever end up going how you want it to... hard to explain. Every faction opposing every other faction with small groups will likely lend itself to random lynching every day. Alliances will become readily apparent quickly because bandwagons will fall on the first person accused with little to no counter.

I really like the concept, but I don't think the player can be trusted.

Edit: I'm an idiot. I notice now that it uses a rotatory system. Hmm, this is the kind of idea that should be the exception to the rule. Who knows, maybe I'll put in a good word.

[BorkBot]

This setup is a vast improvement over the MtG setup. Not because of the theme, but because the way abilities are handled is much more clear.

A few comments though.

I think the serial killer doesn't really have a place in this because it would flip the game's balance far too randomly. I know that you've used it a lot already, but this seems like a setup where an electromaniac would really shine. Charged claims would have rather much impact on the flow of the game, but players have a greater measure of control over who dies.

The student directly adds an additional member to a group, which seems rather powerful because the groups are quite small. An amnesiac can only replace the dead, so it keeps the game more even.

I'd also recommend not using citizens in this setup. In essence they'd just be bored survivors without vests who occasionally join a bandwagon and side with whatever team is winning, while being afk most of the game. Why not replace all of them with amnesiacs who can choose roles on first come, first serve basis. Or randomly. Or maybe even based on a written application to the faction in question kind of like McPwnage's journalist role in MFMV. Allow the militia to recruit them instead of cits (causing them to lose their power but joining team green). You could call them the unemployed, who can apply for job vacancies ;)

Would be a lot more fun for those players I think.

[Fragos]

Now I would like to hear your opinion about voting system in this setup.

Since "Majority" is very difficult to pull off, I'm leaning now between two choices: "Most Votes", where votes are open like in majority, and "Ballot", where each player can vote only once, and their exact votes are revealed after being counted.

What will you suggest?

[Nick]

Now I would like to hear your opinion about voting system in this setup.

Since "Majority" is very difficult to pull off, I'm leaning now between two choices: "Most Votes", where votes are open like in majority, and "Ballot", where each player can vote only once, and their exact votes are revealed after being counted.

What will you suggest?

I don't think pressure vote will work in this setup. And should we consider secret ballot?

[Fragos]

Why the ballot should be secret? The open ballot is essential for reading other people's intention. Note that contents of the ballot are revealed AFTER votes are counted. Before the end of day no one will be able to predict who voted against who.

[Nick]

Hmm.. you are right after all. CmG is against me. Must get him.
You have a point. McPwnage might be a Tycoon. Should vote him.
Ballot result revealed. Nick voted Borkbot.

Should be fun. Ballot.

[Fragos]

Yeah, the purpose of this ballot is to manipulate people's minds so that they will pile up on one victim, even if you actually never voted against the said victim. Maybe you voted already, maybe not. No one knows the ballot status until the very end of day.

[BorkBot]

Either works I suppose, but most votes will result in more discussion I think. With baillot there's much less to discern during the day.

[Fragos]

Next step is the election of Town Leader. That person will have power of 2 votes instead of one.

Should we include Mayor election on Day 1? Would be fun to see how players from different factions will try to battle it out (or stand away) for such prestigious (at and the same time risky) position.

[BorkBot]

Mayor elections seem redundant with this role on the list:

Chief of Police: Can reveal himself at day. If he does, his vote counts as 3.

[Fragos]

Yeah, forgot to tell you that I am removing this role from the role list. I'm going to tweak this list now.

EDIT: Added one extra role for each faction.

[Nick]

Yeah. At least now the day team has some kind of protection.

[Fragos]

You're talking about cops? Jailor can jail his own teammates as well to prevent then from being killed by Mafia, but of course the jailed person will have to skip his night action in return.

[GriM-DeMoN]

Don't forget The Mastermind!

He can hide inside any of the five teams. He can be disguised as as any of the roles that his team can do. The Mastermind's goal it to see all other teams lose. Even winning with his team is a partial victory; a Mastermind should always aim for the full victory if possible. The only ones that Mastermind does not need to kill are neutral roles. On the other side, if Mastermind dies, his former teammates can form alliances with friendlt teams again.

The Mastermind cannot be killed at night, and investigative roles will only see him as role that he is currently disguised as. He can use his disguised role's ability, his "team" shared ability, plus for each team that loses the game, he gains that team's ability (he gains Bribe after Tycoons lose or Recruit after Militia lose). Of course, he can only use one action at once.

Citizens that were recruited directly by The Mastermind will be affilated with him instead of Militia, unless he specifies to recruit then as Masons (while disguised as member of Town Militia).


The Mastermind's primary goal should be to find and eliminate the Mafia first, so that he can kill other people himself after Mafia lose (unless he is a member of Mafia already).

When are the sign ups being hold.
Now info on the Mastermind where is it in the rolelist I don't really get this role.

[Escaho]

I have some thoughts:

-I would remove the killing ability from the Red Mafia and Orange Mafia. The goal of your FM seems to be to have 5 balanced factions fighting against each other. Giving certain factions killing roles results in them being less likely to be targeted than other Colored Mafia.

-This is why I propose this: a Serial Killer who randoms two factions on Night 1. His goal is to kill off those two factions. Or, even better: you could retain the Red/Orange mafia killing roles, but make the Serial Killer's goal to find and kill the Red/Orange factions. Since they can kill, they have the advantage.

-Give the Serial Killer a Student. This allows those two neutral players to participate in a night chat and try and figure out who is who (you could even give the Student an Investigator/Detective power to allow them to search players). He would then become SK if his mentor died.

-For the three remaining Citizens, give them powers that give them night actions. Some ideas would be: a Journalist who is trying to find a particular player and who can also post articles, a Jester that can annoy another player at night, a rogue Jailor who must win by either a) ensuring that the SK/Student pair die or b) must kill one of each of the five factions himself [remove the SK/Student pair if you use option B to balance], a neutral Electro Maniac who can wreak havoc on this set-up (who could also get a Student).

-Actually, the more I think about it, the more I think having a neutral killer with a Student who have an objective really balances this out.

-Using the roles listed above, everyone has night chats, so you'll get players who will all want to participate because they can all do something at all times.

By the way, I commend you on this set-up. Not only do I love Magic: The Gathering, but I love the way the different factions can align with other factions to win together. This is a very interesting set-up and I definitely want to see it approved so I can participate in it!

[Fragos]

You are only making the game more complicated, Escaho. Also Electro Maniac is not neutral, he can be one of the Outlaw possible roles.

Other three factions can make up for their lack of killing roles:

Militia can recruit Citizens into Masons, Doctor can protect team members, and Armorsmith can deploy armor to possible Police or Outlaw allies. Vigilante is a possible killing role on Militia's side.

Police can have either Jailor (with one execution), Bodyguard, or both. They can also ask Militia or Tycoons for extra help (and they will surely need it).

The Tycoons really don't need a killing role - they have plenty of manipulative roles, so they should not be afraid of being killed. Bus Driver and Security Guard are their best night defense.
Be careful with Gunsmith guns - make sure that those guns won't harm you. You can easily control a Citizen with gun, but if gun gets in hand of a another team member, they might give the gun to someone else so that their kill won't be manipulated.

As for The Mastermind, I will include him in the game only if majority of participants allows it.

[Escaho]

While The Mastermind is an interesting role, I think testing out how a five-faction game plus neutrals works without it would be preferred, simply because it causes more confusion.

I concede that my ideas cause more complication (moreso for you than for the players playing), but yes, the Green/Blue factions can heal, while the Purple can manipulate. I'm just worried that that Orange/Mafia killing advantage may be rather great compared to the defensive capabilites of the other factions. But, then again, only a play-test of this set-up will inform us of that.