Kony 2012 is stupid

[McJesus]

So there is a viral movement to make Joseph Kony infamous and catch him has sprung across the the internet over the last couple days. Who is Joseph Kony you ask? Watch this video to find out:

Kony is the leader of the LRA or Lord's Resistance Army. A group operating in Africa that abducts children and trains the boys to be child soldiers and girls to be sex slaves. It is estimated that over 30 000 children have been abducted in the groups history.

So a couple days ago the charity group invisible children made a video that has gotten 20 million views and counting in an effort to make it important to the U.S government to hunt and kill Joseph Kony. April 20th 2012 there are plans to plaster major cities with Kony posters.

On other sites on the internet I am just going to say the Politically Correct thing but here I wanted to talk with the like minded individuals about how naive and dumb this is.

You aren't going to magically catch him just by posting Kony 2012 if the American government actually listened to their people instead of their lobbyists then you might have a chance. Also what is killing Kony going to accomplish in the bigger picture? Yes he is a criminal but there are tons of criminals and warlords who raise child soldiers in Africa. Taking out Kony himself won't stop the LRA nevermind the problem of child soldiers because people will feed off the instability in the region and replace him. The US won't get invested in fixing Africa because they have nothing to gain from it and I don't really think they should honestly.

People don't really care about the issue either, they just post statuses because it is the laziest way to contribute to a problem. This Kony fad will just die out with time like everything else. And why do people suddenly give a shit, did you actually not know about child soldiers before you watched this video? How out of touch with the world are you?

edit: oh and the charity is suspect too if you read this guardian article https://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/r...tory?fb=native

[McJesus]

Now for some funny pics:

[Nick]

So there is a viral movement to make Joseph Kony infamous and catch him has sprung across the the internet over the last couple days. Who is Joseph Kony you ask? Watch this video to find out:
...
On other sites on the internet I am just going to say the Politically Correct thing but here I wanted to talk with the like minded individuals about how naive and dumb this is.

Maybe it went viral because of bandwagoners...

You aren't going to magically catch him just by posting Kony 2012 if the American government actually listened to their people instead of their lobbyists then you might have a chance. Also what is killing Kony going to accomplish in the bigger picture? Yes he is a criminal but there are tons of criminals and warlords who raise child soldiers in Africa. Taking out Kony himself won't stop the LRA nevermind the problem of child soldiers because people will feed off the instability in the region and replace him. The US won't get invested in fixing Africa because they have nothing to gain from it and I don't really think they should honestly.

So this it the main topic for discussion? I suggest you guys check the background of the producers before commenting. The video was made by "non-profit group" Invisible Children. Good to raise awareness about the problem. As for the solution they are advocating, seems a bit naive. Smells fishy.

[Ash]

[creedkingsx]

So this it the main topic for discussion? I suggest you guys check the background of the producers before commenting. The video was made by "non-profit group" Invisible Children. Good to raise awareness about the problem. As for the solution they are advocating, seems a bit naive. Smells fishy.

My high has been active with the Invisible Children for a long time now. They are getting a lot of shit because a portion of their profits go to paying the people who work for the organization, but Pastors get paid money based on what the people donate. It really isn't that bad, the people for the organization put all their time into it. The movement, itself, has been around for an extremely long time. Like I said, my school has known about this for awhile now, and unlike most people, we are all happy that it is finally gaining popularity. I honestly don't know why people are so critical because it is "Just now getting popular." People who say these kind of things imply that they think it wasn't popular when it first started, therefore it should never be popular.

[Ash]

wtf this whole child shit has been popular
ive seen it in movies

[creedkingsx]

wtf this whole child shit has been popular
ive seen it in movies

Hotel Rwonda was a movie that was really popular about this type of thing.

[CmG]

Yeah sure why not send Rambo already. He will fix this. Problem is 2 days later the next "interesting" Person will take his position over. So yeah, sensibilize the masses for this... ok why not?

We are lacking a world villain right now. He could work for some time.

Wonder who it will be after him. I bet kim jong again.


Are there resources to obtain?

[Nick]

My high has been active with the Invisible Children for a long time now. They are getting a lot of shit because a portion of their profits go to paying the people who work for the organization, but Pastors get paid money based on what the people donate. It really isn't that bad, the people for the organization put all their time into it. The movement, itself, has been around for an extremely long time. Like I said, my school has known about this for awhile now, and unlike most people, we are all happy that it is finally gaining popularity.

Might as well hear it directly from you...

1) What is this group's direction? Advocacy? Humanitarian relief?
2) What are they fighting for? Eradication of child slavery? Globally or locally?
3) Employ paid volunteers?

[creedkingsx]

Might as well hear it directly from you...

1) What is this group's direction? Advocacy? Humanitarian relief?
2) What are they fighting for? Eradication of child slavery? Globally or locally?
3) Employ paid volunteers?

The main thing that the movement is for fighting right now with the surge of the KONY2012 thing is to build up the awareness to eventually start convincing more governments world wide to contribute to helping Uganda stop the LRA. They aren't necessarily suggesting complete mobilization, just simply for the governments to help.
They are fighting more for the children in the LRA, because it is just generally extremely inhumane what they are doing with these kids. Pretty much any kind of person can see how inhumane it is honestly.
I don't actually know much towards the subject of the money, just what I have heard from friends back in high school. There are people involved with Invisible Children that spend probably all of their time working for the group, and I really doubt they are getting paid a lot of money, probably just enough to get by. But a lot of people are in an upset because, "Oh, nonprofit organization and volunteers, they shouldn't be getting any money to do what's right." And I honestly do see that point of view, but I don't see what's wrong with helping their members get by. I really doubt any of the people getting money from the organization own like a Lambo or a Ferrari or anything like that.

[Nick]

The main thing that the movement is for fighting right now with the surge of the KONY2012 thing is to build up the awareness to eventually start convincing more governments world wide to contribute to helping Uganda stop the LRA. They aren't necessarily suggesting complete mobilization, just simply for the governments to help.

1) What is the background of the conflict?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord%27s_Resistance_Army
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uganda

Seems to me that even the Ugandan government are crooks.

2) What kind of "help" is expected?

Destruction of LRA? Invasion of Uganda? Pour more aid and money into a pit?

[McJesus]

https://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/r...tory?fb=native

[CmG]

Liberate!

Truth is we can't do anything about it. I wonder what would happen if they would collect money for a proffesional Assasin to just kill this guy. This would be a nice change once in a while. I bet people like this guy would start to fearing for their life.

10 times better then a long line of demonstrators carrying lights, while singing we are the world, we are the children.

[Luna]

The thing is, the news is outdated... the footage was actually filmed in 2003. Kony was driven out of Uganda, and for the past decade the UPDF has been raiding his camps trying to kill him.

For the past several years Kony has been hiding in the jungle, sick, on his last legs.

There's no point 'raising support' against him. It's like a bunch of people from Japan discovering footage of 9/11 and saying 'Oh no, we must raise support! There must be rubble everywhere, let's go over there and help shift it.'

It's a good documentary, but I'm sick of all my friends on facebook sharing it like it's something more than that.

[Nick]

Liberate!

Truth is we can't do anything about it. I wonder what would happen if they would collect money for a proffesional Assasin to just kill this guy. This would be a nice change once in a while. I bet people like this guy would start to fearing for their life.

10 times better then a long line of demonstrators carrying lights, while singing we are the world, we are the children.

They tried by the way. Failed UN operation.

But who cares? Most here don't believe in utopias anyways. Conclusion: Not our business to care. I'd say just leave them to die and let the country collapse. It's their own doing. We should ensure that the cycle of destruction continue instead of delaying it. Maybe the country will be rebuild on it's own after a century or two. Unless of course there are resources to plunder...

[Luna]

Over 50% of Uganda's economy is made up of humanitarian aid. They've become spoiled by it, they rely on handouts and produce very little. Throwing money and resources at the problem hasn't helped in the long run.

[TheJackofSpades]

Over 50% of Uganda's economy is made up of humanitarian aid. They've become spoiled by it, they rely on handouts and produce very little. Throwing money and resources at the problem hasn't helped in the long run.

What do you expect a nation that is landlocked and sits on the equator to produce exactly? We're talking about people who haven't gotten past 'survival' status and whose only interaction with social contracts is from them being force-fed down their throats with little to no understanding.

[Luna]

What do you expect a nation that is landlocked and sits on the equator to produce exactly? We're talking about people who haven't gotten past 'survival' status and whose only interaction with social contracts is from them being force-fed down their throats with little to no understanding.

Exactly, they've become dependant on humanitarian handouts, aid packages and UN mattresses are being sold in market stalls. Instead of trade deals being established, businesses being started up or anything like that, outsiders don't want to commit because of the instability and fear, and the locals feel no need to work.

I don't take the 'force capitalism down everyone else's throat' approach, but the 'Give a man a fish and he's fed for a day, teach a man to fish and he'll eat for a lifetime' approach. If the West can't provide in the long-term, then Uganda needs development at a more fundamental level.

Which has little to do with Kony, he's in the Sudan

[Rocshi]

Invisible Children isn't exactly the ideal way to solve this. Their profit is not used on rebuilding the Ugandan society, but raising awareness about the non-rebuilt Ugandan society. True, if I asked a random guy on the street who Joseph Kony was before last week, they would either say no, or just think I'm crazy. (Probably both), and now some will. That's great, now we know what the problem is. Invisible Children will make us know the problem, and when we all do...it...will...slow...down. Only 32% of Invisible Children's profit goes to rebilding efforts in Uganda, while the other 68% goes to filmmaking and these awareness campaigns. There are US troops there, but here's the problem: These abductions in Uganda have stopped. The LRA is now in the Congo and parts of Sudan.

What Invisible Children is good for raising awareness. I'm doing that thing on April 20th because Kony is a huge problem, and about 20% of the population knows about it. (Probably all left-wing, no doubt) If we are aware, the chance of this being solved skyrockets. We need someone else to actually solve it, if it needs to be solved still at all. There are still lots of crazy warlords out there that do this. We don't know anything about them, where they are, how big their child army is.

Basically, I'm going to just say the US government shouldn't be involved. It's too big a problem for us to tackle. The Ugandan Army by themselves (not good by any standards, they just rape adults and not children) drove the LRA out of Uganda. Great. now they're in the Congo.

It's kinda like Darfur. There was a giant people's movement, it raised awareness, it helped for a couple seconds, and... the Jihads are still burning down villages every day, and now we're just ignorant.

Nevertheless, killing one crazy warlord is good. It sends a message. But this is far beyond the US' control or reach of capability. We should let the armies in Africa do it. Maybe give them some radar technology or something, what we used to find Bin Laden. But we really shouldn't get fully involved, as we'll basically have to invade all of Northern and Central Africa to solve it.

But the raising awareness is good. Just don't spend all your money on it.

[Rocshi]

Exactly, they've become dependant on humanitarian handouts, aid packages and UN mattresses are being sold in market stalls. Instead of trade deals being established, businesses being started up or anything like that, outsiders don't want to commit because of the instability and fear, and the locals feel no need to work.

I don't take the 'force capitalism down everyone else's throat' approach, but the 'Give a man a fish and he's fed for a day, teach a man to fish and he'll eat for a lifetime' approach. If the West can't provide in the long-term, then Uganda needs development at a more fundamental level.

Which has little to do with Kony, he's in the Sudan

Before Uganda gained independence, it was completely reliant on Britain.

Then when it got indepence, it had absolutely nothing, because Britain had taken all of their natural resources, and not taught them how to use them.

Uganda kinda needs to be force-fed for a while.

*Dependency theorists yeahhh*

[Nick]

We should not expect anything from them. Let them go through our 18th and 19th century.

The changes that we often expect from them are not the changes that they need yet. Accelerated changes without a sufficiently stable foundation will only lead to collapse. It takes time for a society to progress and evolve.

Leave them be. My only hope is that they learn from our past mistakes. But even this is fantasy. Developing countries often tread the same destructive path developed countries have gone through.

[Nick]

Before Uganda gained independence, it was completely reliant on Britain.

Then when it got indepence, it had absolutely nothing, because Britain had taken all of their natural resources, and not taught them how to use them.

Uganda kinda needs to be force-fed for a while.

*Dependency theorists yeahhh*

If a region or country cannot produce enough to support it's population, I'd rather that they die from disease and famine than helping them. Waste of resources. It's like trying to grow orchids on shifting sand dunes in the middle of the desert. Arguments about having enough food to feed the entire world population is not relevant here.

[Necrolord]

I was struggling to figure out what this "Kony" thing was on Facebook, if they were referring to the same guy. I mean, the people linking it were people I knew who really didn't give a shit about what other people in the world might be suffering. It's not in their own backyard after all. The kind of people I've met in life wouldn't give a shit about anything unless it was knocking on their door.

I've been aware of the LRA's reputation for quite a few years. I think it would be a nice gesture of the U.S to get rid of a man who thinks having people's lips, breasts, and hands cut off is an acceptable way of conducting war.

[McJesus]

Africa is pretty much fucked, throwing money there is like throwing money into a bottomless pit. The actual difference giving money makes is of very little consequence. I want to see some results damnit!

[creedkingsx]

We should not expect anything from them. Let them go through our 18th and 19th century.

The changes that we often expect from them are not the changes that they need yet. Accelerated changes without a sufficiently stable foundation will only lead to collapse. It takes time for a society to progress and evolve.

Leave them be. My only hope is that they learn from our past mistakes. But even this is fantasy. Developing countries often tread the same destructive path developed countries have gone through.

It isn't a societal issue for them. It's a, there is an army of people killing everyone. The German army started attacking bitches around them, Europe didn't handle that on their own. North Vietnam started taking over South Vietnam, they needed more help than what we could give them. This isn't a matter of a country developing, it is a matter of a civil war that will lead to the death of many lives without the need for all the deaths.

[Necrolord]

Africa is pretty much fucked, throwing money there is like throwing money into a bottomless pit. The actual difference giving money makes is of very little consequence. I want to see some results damnit!

I also want to contribute to what you're saying, by trying to prove a point of my own: this isn't just Joseph Kony. It's Africans in general.

Breast ironing, female genital mutilation, etc. Things mothers think are necessary to do their adolescent daughters, without any knowledge of the massive psychological trauma (that they also went through), or future health problems. Then let's look at the ethnic tribes that live apart from the industrialized conflicts: they perform painful rituals on their young in order to prepare them for adult life. Yeah, having your face tattooed, and not being allowed to cry, is important. Having your back whipped, and not crying out, is an important stage of manhood.

I just illustrated the barbaric nature of their tribal system, which is where Joseph Kony's war crimes comes from. Here's how to make it worse:

GIVE THE FUCKERS GUNS!

That pretty much summarizes why Africa have had so many civil wars. You give tribal nutcases wealth, power, and guns, and they're going to turn into complete monsters.

[Nick]

It isn't a societal issue for them. It's a, there is an army of people killing everyone. The German army started attacking bitches around them, Europe didn't handle that on their own. North Vietnam started taking over South Vietnam, they needed more help than what we could give them. This isn't a matter of a country developing, it is a matter of a civil war that will lead to the death of many lives without the need for all the deaths.

I suspect matters are not so straightforward. In this case, I believe it's more of proxy war between Sudan and Uganda over supposed oilfields.

But well, civil wars are rife in Africa. Ethic and religious tension are high. Warlords and countries are vying for influence. Governments are corrupt and inefficient. Basic human right records are horrendous.

Uganda is just one of them. And LRA is basically almost wiped out anyways. Too late for military intervention. As for the rest? Whom should we support? What kind of support? Military intervention or ceasefire discussion? For military intervention, in some cases it is clear whom to side with. In others, vague.

As for your needless deaths, I quote Necrolord!

I just illustrated the barbaric nature of their tribal system, which is where Joseph Kony's war crimes comes from. Here's how to make it worse:

GIVE THE FUCKERS GUNS!

That pretty much summarizes why Africa have had so many civil wars. You give tribal nutcases wealth, power, and guns, and they're going to turn into complete monsters.

Tell that to your countries and their corporate paymasters. Stop selling guns to them. Also, stop buying those bloody resources that fund the wars. But too late anyways. Damage is already done. And I doubt that your countries are willing to stop the practice of selling weaponry to them and buying their bloody resources in return. Too profitable. I don't think any country will bother forcing a ceasefire, unless resource production was delayed by the civil wars, or they stopped buying weaponry from and selling resources to the said country.

Devour the weak, stupid and incompetent. Real life! And wars are supposed to be profitable in the long run.

[Nick]

It isn't a societal issue for them. It's a, there is an army of people killing everyone. The German army started attacking bitches around them, Europe didn't handle that on their own. North Vietnam started taking over South Vietnam, they needed more help than what we could give them. This isn't a matter of a country developing, it is a matter of a civil war that will lead to the death of many lives without the need for all the deaths.

By the way, your perspective of war is warped. From your post, I suppose you are from the US. Taking sides during a civil war DO NOT reduce war casualties. It will only make the war worse, inviting rival countries to join in directly or indirectly. Forcing a ceasefire in the other hand might make you the target for both sides instead. No one will get involved in wars unless it's to safeguard their interests. Yes. WWII and Vietnam War included.

[Admiral]

Requirement to post KONY 2012 related videos.

[creedkingsx]

Found it.

[DramaLlama]

[Ash]

lol drama.

finally saw the whole video,
I'm pretty sure the U.S government already knew about this whole kony business, but nothing the average person would know about.
I still don't understand this whole child-soldier business. I know they are "abducted". but what do they mean as abducted? Are they brainwashed? Forced to fight? Why don't they just rebel against them? If we go to war will our soldiers have to fight some little children? I don't quite understand it.

Also: The poster of the three evil maniacs (Hitler, Osama, Kony) scares the shit out of me. Looks like the apocalypse.

[Necrolord]

Ash, I believe I read once that either they are threatened with death (or worse) if they don't kill their parents, or they're given drugs and alcohol in advance to dull their senses. The drugs and alcohol are a big factor in retaining their loyalty, however. It's like trafficking women: make them addicted to drugs, and they won't want to leave because they'll be so fucked up during withdrawals. Combine that with fear, and you can make children do whatever you want.

I'm glad that Syria's still getting media attention despite this campaign, as while Joseph Kony is a monster that doesn't even deserve to be jailed (he needs to die or work hard labour), President Bashar Al-Assad is still having his armed forces kill protestors and rebels, and actively engages in torture against...anyone. Even children your age. The torture methods have been described as "medieval" by Human Rights Watch, and it includes hacking penises off, pulling fingernails, etc. There's nothing they won't do.

Joseph Kony is an insane African guy who believes he is Jesus Christ incarnate (I'm not joking about that one), but I read once that the size of his rebel force is 100-200 fighters, it's not in the tens of thousands. On the other hand, Bashar Al-Assad has a palace to hide in, and Allawite (his religious sect) officers who hold guns at grunts' heads so they won't refuse to gun down civilians. He has a complete authoritarian support base, and is probably more of a threat to the world than Kony.

But I agree with either of them being killed.

[Nick]

But I agree with either of them being killed.

Out of reps.

But killing is only a temporary solution
1) Should we kill the vice leader and the officers too?
2) And the next leader?
3) Repeat until the organization dissolve?
4) Hope that they do not scatter into splinter factions...

[Lazers]

The funny this is that this shit has been occurring for ~20 years and Kony isn't even in fucking Uganda anymore

ha

[Clawtrocity]

www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLVY5jBnD-E

Uganda native vlogging about the issues. I've been discussing this on reddit for the past few days and it's sad to see the majority of people behind this movement are Justin Beiber fans. The only other people posting this are the same ones who would post a chain letter message, go to a soup kitchen to take a few picture for the church wall and leave, and of course the few that know exactly what's happening and are happy to see the issue get the awareness it deserves.

[Crimson]

It's funny no one cared about this 6 years ago when he was actually doing it. He is no longer active. Should he be punished? Sure. It may be too late, though.

[Necrolord]

As is too often with anyone the U.N ever indicts for human rights violations, they're always too late. ICC included.

Imagine if they were like "OMG 5 people dead already, mass the troops!!!" Heh, that'd be awesome lol.

[Ash]

Mod note: Image deleted.

[Muso]

This is for serious discussion.