M-FM VII Gamethread

[Goremancer]

Has anything useful happened since the lookout suggestion? Tell us in a nutshell plz we are too lazy to read everything. We'll get right back to trolling everyone soon. We promise.

[McJesus]

Dramalama and Clementine should just chill the fuck out and play the game

[Dust]

Well, it seems despite all my attempts, people don't grow fond of my idea.
I guess I need to present and formulate my ideas better next time, because I still think the benefits outweigh the drawbacks (even without a Lookout).

On Sumikoko's citizen claim:
I think she should get a WIFOM heal/armor and a Mason visitation.

Next day:
1) If Sumikoko claims not recruited:
a) Somebody claims Mason, that tried to recruit her, but failed
-> We should think about lynching her. Though, there is the possibility of Jester on both sides, Sumikoko and the claimed Mason. If we lynch her and she flips Citizen, we should let Vigilante shoot the claimed Mason, as the only one I can think of claiming that is a Jester. If she flips non-Citizen/Journalist, the claimed Mason gets a WIFOM heal/armor and another citizen should claim. Rinse and repeat.
b) Nobody claims Mason
-> She may be anything, but Citizen is the most likely imo. If not Citizen, it would be a gambit on no Mason being in game. That risk should be worth the reward.

2) If Sumikoko claims recruited:
-> another low priority WIFOM heal/armor and another citizen should claim, if the Masons wish it to be that way. Rinse and repeat.

If I'm missing something here, pls tell me so.

You're missing the part where Sumi claimed a cit as a PR to protect herself. She's done this before in FM10 so don't write her off as a citizen. If there is a mason, then he or she should make a wise choice tonight.

Mason, if you are out there, you are the only cleared person to yourself. We are not (yet). If something seems off, don't do it. Think about everything you can do and do the best you can.

Everyone, don't tunnel vision lurkers. They may have different schedules than you do. If someone lurks profusely, then you can tunnel vision him or her.

A word to the wise.

[Dust]

The current list of lurkers:
Rihfok
Rocshi - 1 post
Mopin
FrostByte - 1 post
GriM-DeMoN
creedkingsx
trineroks - 1 post
Fragos

Some of these have excuses some of them don't. I saw trineroks browsing the thread just a minute ago. He should pop up soon after this post.

[trineroks]

Yeah, sorry for my lurkiness lol. I've been kind of busy lately with colleges and all that goody.

[GriM-DeMoN]

Sorry have not been hear to see the Thread start so I have a excuse Whats up People. I have not read all the post yets I might do that soon and say reply to what people have said.

This is just a suggestion but if you think Mason Leader needs to be removed from SC2 Mafia say --Agreed
All there needs to be is a Mason that recruits that is a Adv role that kills cultist.
The Masons can all just vote theres no Cultist leader no point in Mason Leader.

Sorry About my Spelling and grammer

[GriM-DeMoN]

Also -Against
Bad idea

[Fragos]

Good morning Babylon!

I'm quite sad that some of the players want to leave this game. Hope Kromos will find then an good replacement.

[Sumikoko]

I will give a gun to you Nick if you promise to shoot one of the mafia lovers OR sumikoko.

For tradition's sake.

-twitch-
My, my, I think it's high time I polish my chainsaw blades before it gouges into someone's neck... For tradition's sake.

Mon Petit Chou, yes, I have claimed citizen as PR before. As the Mason Leader is unlikely to have a better target tonight, however, why not try recruiting me? If it fails, the Mason Leader will know I'm a PR. (Because if I were scum, it would be dangerous for me to dare the Mason to visit me, as even if I learn his name, when he ends up in the graveyard, the first suspicions cast will be on me.) And if it succeeds, then all the better, correct? Kufufu.

[Goremancer]

Sooooo as far as we can see, this is just guessing and using previous m-fm experiences. we won't not even going to try to figure out who is scum at this point. we won't be able to scum hunt srsly until day 2. But we suppose doing this does have its merit. Putting pressure on players and reading their reaction is one of the best scum hunting techniques.

As for the newer players, we don't see them as being particularly scummy. Because they are new, we won't have much insight on them until later in the game. Clementine is trying to contribute to the town's discussion but CmG is having a hard on for him. Phyr is proposing a plan that will probably end in disaster. Either way, we don't see them as scum, yet.

OK THAT'S ENOUGH ON TOPIC DISCUSSIONS. LET'S TROLLOLOLOL NOW. HEY GUYS HAVE ANY OF YOU BEAT THIS GAME YET?

[Kromos]

Other questions:
Does a converted journalist (to masons) retain his abilities?

How does framing effect detective and lookout results specifically?

Where does the lawyers abilities fall on the order of operations?

These questions have already been answered in the FAQ or the setup.

[Kromos]

Luna checked clementine and Kony's IP addresses before the game. She believes clementine is not a smurf and that Kony is using an IP scrambler. I also randomed the roles when I had the full 20 players then gave Crimson's role to clementine.

Please direct all questions to the FAQ. I will not answer any more questions posted here.

Escaho has replaced DramaLlama.

[Phyr]

You're missing the part where Sumi claimed a cit as a PR to protect herself. She's done this before in FM10 so don't write her off as a citizen. If there is a mason, then he or she should make a wise choice tonight.

Mason, if you are out there, you are the only cleared person to yourself. We are not (yet). If something seems off, don't do it. Think about everything you can do and do the best you can.

Everyone, don't tunnel vision lurkers. They may have different schedules than you do. If someone lurks profusely, then you can tunnel vision him or her.

A word to the wise.

Well, It's my honest opinion when I say, I think it's a short sighted play to claim Citizen to be recruited by the Mason as Town PR on the first day, when there is no confirmed Mason. You gain the WIFOM protection of a Citizen claim, but we lose the possibility of getting information on the hidden town roles. And I think it should be the masons' choice, who they want to give WIFOM protection, but we'll need a "confirmed" Mason first for this.

-twitch-
My, my, I think it's high time I polish my chainsaw blades before it gouges into someone's neck... For tradition's sake.

Mon Petit Chou, yes, I have claimed citizen as PR before. As the Mason Leader is unlikely to have a better target tonight, however, why not try recruiting me? If it fails, the Mason Leader will know I'm a PR. (Because if I were scum, it would be dangerous for me to dare the Mason to visit me, as even if I learn his name, when he ends up in the graveyard, the first suspicions cast will be on me.) And if it succeeds, then all the better, correct? Kufufu.

Why shouldn't he have a better target? A honest Citizen claim and he has an awesome target. And we have awesome info next day.
The conclusion, that you are a PR, if not recruited, fails to me. It's rather the other way round. By stating this you give scum a level of protection that shouldn't need to be there. They can hide in the shadow of a bad play.
If you are not a Citizen/Journalist, you will claim not recruited tomorrow, as claiming recruited, is a risky gambit. You will need to find other players that follow along with that. And those can be both Mafia and TPR...
While I think that WIFOM is a useful thing, there are moments where not using it is simply better. I think of this as such a moment.
They most problematic thing for doing this truthfully is the Jester claiming Citizen to be masoned. For everybody else we will have either the info we got a Manson in play (and maybe a lynched scum, if they try a mason gambit) or Scum trying a Mason gambit, that will easily be reveal at a later stage, or scum hiding behind the risk of a Manson being in play, when there actually isn't.

tl;dr: If everybody can WIFOM Citizen to be masoned, there is NO information to be gained, because everybody can do it and just hide behind a Town PR WIFOM.

This too, only works to its full potential, if town has a clear position on this. But as town doesn't seem to reach a consensus on this kind of thing so early into the game, it can't be leveraged. I think I should stop putting so much hope into town working in unison right of the bat.
I don't want to lecture you, but I just seem to reach different conclusions, when weighting the pros and cons, and wanted to express this.

Tally for the Lookout plan:
FOR(2): Phyr, CmG
AGAINST(5): BorkBot, clementine, McPwnage, Dust, GriM-DeMoN

I will maybe reformulate the plan and address the concerns in a new post by playing through different scenarios. I admit there are scenarios, where the outcome is worse by following through. But those come with a risk for the Mafia as well.

[Nick]

Ready check...

Rihfok
Nick
Rocshi
Goremancer
clementine
Mopin
McPwnage
FrostByte
GriM-DeMoN
BorkBot
creedkingsx
Phyr
CmG
trineroks
Sumikoko
Dust
Fragos
Ubernox
ajkei
Escaho

[Rihfok]

I'M BACK

Sorry, it was 1 AM when the day started, and first thing in the morning I had to go to the hospital, I skimmed through all the posts, but could someone then give a clear summarry for me? I'm a bit confused now.

[Rihfok]

Luna checked clementine and Kony's IP addresses before the game. She believes clementine is not a smurf and that Kony is using an IP scrambler.

That is because Kony is probably trying to hide the fact that he isn't really from Uganda.

[Mopin]

-AGAINST

Looked like a good idea initially but I don't see something like that working out. Mainly due to how much the framer and dirty sleuth could do in the situation, seeing as at least one of them will probably be in the game with the 5 random mafia.

Like Rihfok suggested I would quite like a summary of the events, it all looked a little confusing and at the moment I can't be bothered to read through earlier posts too heavily.

[Ubernox]

Curves on dat clementine....

[Rihfok]

Oh, yes.

-against

Framer would make this useless.

[Phyr]

-Does the Mafia have day chat?

-Will the beginning of day RP mention, how many killers killed a player and who it was, that killed him (See coroner killers list)? Will some be indistinguishable from each other, or do all of those need the coroner to be available to town?

[Ubernox]

I demand that Sumi lives past day three in this game. Why the hate, Bork? Are you bitter about the whole witness affair?

[Ubernox]

Also, I want the eagle back. It's bad enough that I keep on getting Kromos mixed up for Akira.

[Escaho]

O HAI GUYZ.

I was the former Drama Llama Ding Dong, but now I'm just lonely Escaho.

To Mafia: I am the Witch, so don't kill me yet.
To Town: I am da Lookout, so I'll be watching out for your asses.
To the Serial Killer: I am actually a Jester, so I can win with yo ass. Just don't vote for me, k?

Also, I'm totally -AGAINST that plan yo, because I'm really the Lookout and a Framer gonna mess dat whole thing up.

In addition, there ain't no Mason Leader in da Town Hidden Role list, so I don't know why u guyz talkin' 'bout there bein' one. Especially because that's who I really am.

[Dust]

-twitch-
My, my, I think it's high time I polish my chainsaw blades before it gouges into someone's neck... For tradition's sake.

Mon Petit Chou, yes, I have claimed citizen as PR before. As the Mason Leader is unlikely to have a better target tonight, however, why not try recruiting me? If it fails, the Mason Leader will know I'm a PR. (Because if I were scum, it would be dangerous for me to dare the Mason to visit me, as even if I learn his name, when he ends up in the graveyard, the first suspicions cast will be on me.) And if it succeeds, then all the better, correct? Kufufu.

Mi Amor, it's just that I've got to take everything into account. It's quite possible that there's no mason in the setup. It's better to be thorough and make people write out a long paragraph than be lax and possibly screw it all up.

Escaho, what's your game? Why do you claim 4 different roles? Are you trying to act like I did in M-FM2?

Dramallama wasn't scummy (based on perfunctory notes). You are.

[Escaho]

Escaho, what's your game? Why do you claim 4 different roles? Are you trying to act like I did in M-FM2?

Dramallama wasn't scummy (based on perfunctory notes). You are.

Trying something new. Going to see what happens when I just claim everything in the book.

Move along, investigative roles, nothing to see here.

You too, Mafia. We're cool, we're cool.

Neutral killer? I just ordered pizza. CoMe On OvEr.

Not scummy though, tbh. Better I look not scummy.

[Rihfok]

I finally got to reading everything in detail.
Though it's still a bit too much information in one gulp, I roughly see the situation now.
This will be a LOT of noting.
Thanks :/

[Nick]

That is because Kony is probably trying to hide the fact that he isn't really from Uganda.

RP to the max. Using Uganda proxy IP I bet. Or maybe Central African Republic, Sudan or Democratic Republic of the Congo where he was hiding.

Also, I want the eagle back. It's bad enough that I keep on getting Kromos mixed up for Akira.

Borkbot is goremancering. Copyright infridgement on skull-like avatar!

Hmm... hoping that people mix you up with Goremancer...

[FrostByte]

[COLOR="#FF0000"]

Like Rihfok suggested I would quite like a summary of the events, it all looked a little confusing and at the moment I can't be bothered to read through earlier posts too heavily.

Pffft, don't be lazy. 8 pages ain't shit, especially considering the last FM I was in (my first) was FMX. That shit was ridiculous.

[FrostByte]

Godamn my derpy quoting.

[Mopin]

Having read through quite a bit of the day chat I'd say that Phyr looks rather scummy.

This is mainly because it looks like he's trying to be overly helpful to town with his whole lookout plan, which I'm sure most people would of realised was clearly flawed from the beginning. I wouldn't be at all surprised if he was the framer/dirty sleuth, or at least had one on his team.

Though then again he does look like the type to do things like that even if he was town, judging by the amount of questions he has been asking in the FAQ he seems like he would want to try out new plans etc.

Maybe someone should check him out if there's no other targets that you immediately suspect.

[FrostByte]

Also, you want a summary?
Blah blah blah, day 1 trolling blah blah blah. Take all of this with a grain of salt, everyone knows day 1 is for trolling/asking question. I think the hope is that all of the players get the trolling out of their systems on day 1.

Smurfing newbies is frowned upon? But that's beside the point.

Have you played any FM before? Or are you from EU? I don't have any record on your playstyle. Somehow CmG does...

I played in FMX and I've played a shit ton of SC2maf. From Chicago, so no, not EU. CmG is just a generalizing trollface.

[Phyr]

Massive wall of text incoming.
I rearranged my thoughts on this, as people seemed to have skimmed through the day. I hope this presentation will help you understand my point of view.
This is what I propose.

Reiteration of the planned night actions:
-The Lookout, if present, watches the Chosen One.
-The Chosen One is a Citizen (no, not even Journalist), who wants so be masoned. Sumikoko shouldn't be the Chosen One, as she mentioned that it would be possible, that she WIFOMs citizen as a Power Role that may or may not be town. Therefor I suggest taking somebody else, as giving her the option to chose, if she wants to be the Chosen One, could lead to problems should she decline. The declining in itself could be WIFOM, but as a town PR she wouldn't have a choice, if we want this to work.
-All and only protective town roles (Doctor/Medical Students/Bodyguard/Armorsmith) visit the Chosen One.
-The Mason, if present, visits the Chosen One.

As the Framer seems to be the concern most often mentioned, here the results broken down in cases...

Lookout Plan
1. There is a Lookout in game (lucky us)

1.1 The Chosen One doesn't get framed
The Lookout got a list of players that are protective town roles or scum. He doesn't know that for sure as the Chosen One might have been framed. He will not leave the information he received in his last will. If he is pretty sure that the information he got of this are likely accurate (i.e. by Graveyard information/proven Investigation results/status and role claims(blocked,Mason)), he should claim Lookout (prove himself by information gathered the following nights) and get himself protected. Still no information about night 1 in his last will. The Lookout can then divide the players into groups and assign each group to a target or group of targets to be protected (there should be more groups then protective roles - more WIFOM heals). Overprotection prevented and a wider spread of protection is made possible. And he knows a list of players that claim to be a protective power role (besides the Mason, that will claim). This is the biggest gain imo, as he can call people out if their claim doesn't fit the night 1 information. Like an investigation message showing Doc and co on somebody that didn't visit the Chosen One (*cough* Framer *cough) (super awesome case)
1.2 The Chosen One gets framed and Lookout catches on to it
If the information floating around discredit the night information gained, he may add it into his last will with a comment that the chosen one got framed. That will make sure, that other investigative roles results for night 1 are more credible (Lookout's last will may have been lawyered). (made the Framer visit a target that no other investigative role visited)
1.3 The Chosen One gets framed and Lookout doesn't get it
If the Framer gets lucky on some targets given and the Lookout deems the night 1 information credible, it could easily result in a mislynch, taking away credibility of the lookout itself. (worst of all possibilities)

2. There is no Lookout in game

1.1 The Chosen One doesn't get framed
There is nothing gained in this case. Rather the opposite as investigation results of this night tend to be more credible, so you are more inclined to believe false information, if your target was framed. (minor drawbacks)
1.2 The Chosen One gets framed
We will never know it, but it made the night 1 investigation results correct, as the Framer chose to shut down the information of a non-existent Lookout. (positive outcome)

So we only got one real downside and that's only the case, if Framer gets really lucky or the Lookout is jumping the gun.

Drawbacks
-No spread of protection. As there are more town than scum to be hit by Mafia (5/17 chance), this hits town harder than scum. (minor drawback)
-Doctors gain no information about them being Doctor or Medical Student, if the Chosen One claims to be roleblocked. (major drawback)


(Un-)Mentioned concerns:

But I can't think of a way to exploit this information to find mafia quickly. Unless the Lookout claims early.
Con: Dirty Sleuth, divert protective roles and Lookout, scum protected
Meaning town will lose the luck factor for Night1.

This is more of a long run plan, if a Lookout is present. If not it hopefully will draw in Mafia roles like Framer/Drug Dealer/Consort on a Citizen. (Drug Dealer and Consort have it's downsides as well - see Doc/Med Student)
I don't get the con argument. The Dirty Sleuth can only read last wills and won't find anything on night 1. I don't see how he can divert Lookout and protect scum (claiming to be the Chosen One as scum, is quite risky as you will die 100%, if there is a Mason in game). The chance of a lucky heal goes down I admit that, but if the mafia kill each other... wouldn't that be awesome as well?

It guarantees successful kills for both of the mafia teams.

A lookout isn't guaranteed, and if none exists then the actions of all protective roles are completely wasted.

This much is truth. This night they can kill pretty guaranteed (inb4 Pro Town Witch ), but they don't have too much information to work with to single out important targets. So now would be the best time.

Even if there is one, the lookout can't share this information in any way without also informing scum.

Mafia teams are quite safe to send one of their players to that same player. They can send an actress or a lawyer, who also don't give any feedback messages. The lookout has to reveal them first before anyone can use that information. If he does, that also means the mafia immediately knows who the protective roles/opposite mafia are. Let's say there are 2 protective roles and each mafia sends one of their own to the target, they have much better info than we do. Should the protective roles then protect each other?

There might be jesters and executioners taking advantage of this "strategy" and make every bit of info unreliable.

Here is the important difference. The Lookout won't reveal the visitors, the Mafia will gain no intel whatsoever. But he can step in, if somebody claims something that doesn't fit his information (after he made sure, the Chosen One wasn't framed). So a Actress, Jester or a Lawyer will have a problem, if the Lookout knows his information can be trusted and they claim something sharing their investigation message, as they shouldn't have visited the Chosen One (Mason should be (dis-)proven by Day 2 at the latest). I think we agree, that the Lookout publishing his information is a really bad move, as they can't protect themselves and investigative roles at the same time.

I think a strategy like this shouldn't be applied until later, if we know for sure that there's a lookout, we need confirmation of people's roles and when we have eliminated possibilities for scum to confuse us.

Here I disagree, too. Later in the game too many roles worth protecting will be revealed, so we can't have the luxury of sending all protective roles to one player. It only works in the beginning.

I don't see it working, we don't know if we have a medical student so the consort is going to come in and make a potential doctor think he is a medical student. Also it gives mafia free reign over kills with no chance of stopping him.

These are valid concerns and mentioned in the drawbacks.

I stand in firm negation of this plan. Unless there is an element of WIFOM in this. If the town WIFOMs protection on someone, but doesn't protect that person (or does) then that person is protected regardless of heals or armor real or imagined. Unfortunately, Phyr's plan does not take into effect WIFOM and so I strongly negate the plan.

Also, if there's a lookout and he outs himself, then a dirty sleuth could check the lookout and know who is a doctor or other protection role. I do not condone that.

I hope you realize that adding WIFOM to this, breaks down the plan completely, as even if we have a Lookout and the Chosen One isn't framed, the information gained won't be reliable, and thus nil. It isn't the goal to protect the Chosen One. The goal is to bind the Framer and/or other Mafia roles to him, making investigation results more reliable. And if we have a Lookout and the Framer doesn't feed him false information, we'll have won big time. Again no information about that in last will until it is proven to be false.

Well for one thing, a PR that doesn't write down his results in either his last will or in day chat is nearly as bad a citizen in terms of information. The information needs to get out to us so that we can use it to determine validity of claims and accusations.

You wouldn't want to reveal that information, before you can pin down scum with it. They are less likely to slip up, if they can use that information. And publishing fake/framer information doesn't help either unless you know it is fake.

Looked like a good idea initially but I don't see something like that working out. Mainly due to how much the framer and dirty sleuth could do in the situation, seeing as at least one of them will probably be in the game with the 5 random mafia.

Err, again... Dirty Sleuth isn't a problem in the least and the Framer has it's up- and downsides, but rather than gaining next to no information (if nobody visited his target), I'd prefer to have either a fuckload of information or knowing that the other results of investigative roles hold true for sure (that is information, too).


-Dirty Sleuth is no concern. If there is no Lookout, he can't read his last will. If there is, he will want to find him, but the information he wants won't be in there.
-Witched and roleblocked claims, have to be taken into account. But i think it won't be too many 1-2 non-Chosen One max. And if the Chosen One wasn't roleblocked at all, the Docs get the information they wanted... awesome. (one drawback down)
-You can gain information too by drawing in Drug Dealer and Consort, as they have feedback messages.


On this note:
If Framer and Dirty Sleuth is still a concern for you, please, explain me why you think so. I don't get it.

The Mason follow up on the next day
1. The Chosen One claims not recruited

1.1 Somebody claims Mason and calls the Chosen One out as scum

1.1.1 The Chosen One is Jester
Lynch the Chosen One. This is the worst case as we might loose a TPR to Jester grief (Jester chooses target).
The Mason claimer should be WIFOM protected and another Citizen claim should step up. Repeat until we have a second Mason claim, with the first Mason confirming it.
-> Two claimed Masons
1.1.2 The Chosen One is other Neutral/Mafia
Lynch the Chosen One. Well, he was scum. Good for us to see him dead.
The Mason claimer should be WIFOM protected and another Citizen claim should step up. Repeat until we have a second Mason claim, with the first Mason confirming it.
-> Two claimed Masons
1.1.3 The Chosen One is Citizen
Lynch the Chosen One. The Mason claimer obviously wasn't Mason and is free to get shot at night, the first given ->Gunsmith gun should be used for this (Vigilante may shoot him too, but can wait another night). Now we know, that there is no Mason in game.

1.2 Nobody claims Mason
The Chosen One is either Citizen or scum, all kind of protection should be dropped of him.

2. The Chosen One claims recruited and has to claim his Mason buddy

2.1 He can't name his Mason buddy, or the one called out denies being Mason
The Chosen One should be lynched/shot as he is scum (see 1.1.3 Mason claimer). We should be careful about lynching because of Jester and take armor into account, when shooting him. Now we know too, there is no Mason in game.
2.2 The Mason buddy confirms
-> Two claimed Masons

Summary of cases:
The only case, where we actually might loose something, is when the Chosen One is Jester. In every other case we get scum or don't loose anything (well, to be honest, giving armor to a confirmed non-TPR might be considered a loss too). We can confirm or deny the existence of a Mason, if he wasn't witched or blocked. But if that happend to him, he should try again the next night, so we fall back into the scheme.


Two claimed Masons
One of the Masons develops a code and uses their night chat to explain it to the other Mason. The other Mason solves it the next day. If he can solve it, the Masons either are really Masons or Mafia.
If they are Mafia it might suffice to check one of them (inb4 Godfather) or wait for one of them to die and two Mafia are taken out. This is even stronger considering, that each Mafia team only has 3 members. I doubt they would take that risk.
If one of them dies and flips Mason he can confirm the other one as Mason that way. If he flips Neutral/Mafia we can lynch the other one as well. If he gets cleaned, we will have to wait for investigation results on the cleaned body or the remaining Mason claimer.

Gunsmith guns
I think we should direct the usage of guns given by Gunsmith. We can confirm another power role and make sure that the gun doesn't remain in the wrong hands, if it was given to bad guys. If the gun wasn't used and nobody claimed witched, the Gunsmith may choose to claim, in order to call out the scum, that got his gun (role blocks are to be considered). It is essential, that we know, that no witch is in play. Otherwise the Gunsmith can be forced to give guns to scum.
If somebody claimed witched, we should try to direct them nonetheless, in case of only the night 1 gun going to scum. And it still may confirm a power role (but beware of Fabricator).


Tally for the Lookout plan:
FOR(2): Phyr, CmG
AGAINST(7): BorkBot, clementine, McPwnage, Dust, GriM-DeMoN, Mopin, Rihfok

I'd still like to know from those, who didn't take a position on this, what they think about it.

[Escaho]

Having read through quite a bit of the day chat I'd say that Phyr looks rather scummy.

This is mainly because it looks like he's trying to be overly helpful to town with his whole lookout plan, which I'm sure most people would of realised was clearly flawed from the beginning. I wouldn't be at all surprised if he was the framer/dirty sleuth, or at least had one on his team.

Though then again he does look like the type to do things like that even if he was town, judging by the amount of questions he has been asking in the FAQ he seems like he would want to try out new plans etc.

Maybe someone should check him out if there's no other targets that you immediately suspect.

I'm a Sheriff and I'm going to check you tonight.

Why? Putting blame on someone else to get investigative roles off of you. Also, the classic, "Someone please put a summary of events together so that when they are compiled I can look like I caused that contribution to happen" line. Mopin da scum!

[Nick]

Against

In short, potential loss is greater than gain. You are pushing this too hard to be scum hunting.

I'm for Mason recruiting Sumikoko. Nothing else. If it fails, we'll shoot Sumikoko tomorrow. No Ghost so we are safe. Sumikoko, if you are the Jester, do take back your claim now. If recruitment is successful, without revealing the original Mason, another citizen can reveal tomorrow. Sheriff or investigator can check the Masons on Night2 or Night3 to confirm. If they lie, kill all the Mason claimers. This is foolproof. Your lookout can be countered.

I'm refuse to give further ideas to the mafia on the counter strategy.

Others should state their stand before the night ends. Good night.

See you tomorrow if I survive.

[Rihfok]

So your plan is to shoot everyone?
Seems legit.

[Mopin]

I'm a Sheriff and I'm going to check you tonight.

Why? Putting blame on someone else to get investigative roles off of you. Also, the classic, "Someone please put a summary of events together so that when they are compiled I can look like I caused that contribution to happen" line. Mopin da scum!

I have no reason to put the blame on anyone Escaho, as no one has currently suspected or even really mentioned me at all so far. I understand how you may think the whole summary thing is scummy, so I'm not totally opposed to you checking me tonight.

[Rihfok]

On a side note, I just want to say that I'm always suspicious of day 1 role claims, so right now I don't trust any of the role claims.
I will start trusting people after the first clues are in.

[Escaho]

I have no reason to put the blame on anyone Escaho, as no one has currently suspected or even really mentioned me at all so far. I understand how you may think the whole summary thing is scummy, so I'm not totally opposed to you checking me tonight.

I'd check you if I could, but I'm just a lowly Mafioso/Citizen/Jester.

[McJesus]

guys we don't even know if there is a mason, lets not get ahead of ourselves and say we should shoot sumi if mason fails to recruit.

[Fragos]

I'm against the plan. Why? Here's how it looks.

Let's say we have the chosen one (who should be citizen) and Mason recruits him. On the plus side, the town will have 2 Masons who know each other, and Lookout will know the names of possible protective roles. On the bad side, both Mafia groups will probably kill someone else. Any other town role will be vulnerable at night.

I'll be straight here: if your-so called Lookout dies at first night, Phyr's whole plan will be completely screwed. Phyr even mentioned two drawbacks to us. Because of those two drawbacks (minor and major) I strongly recommend not to follow this plan. Well, if Sumi is really a citizen, then the only ones who should visit her are Doctor, Mason, and hidden lookout. Any other roles should be focused on protecting more trustworthy guys (like Escaho, who claimed himself Sheriff). Or myself.

[Rihfok]

You can not trust anyone on Day/Night 1.

[Mopin]

Here's the tally for the lookout plan:

FOR(2): Phyr, CmG
AGAINST(9): BorkBot, clementine, McPwnage, Dust, GriM-DeMoN, Mopin, Rihfok, Nick, Fragos

While seems certain that we wont go through with this plan, I'd love to hear everyone else's opinions on the matter.

Also Fragos, Escaho has later claimed citizen, making him a largely undesirable heal target.

[Escaho]

Here's the tally for the lookout plan:

FOR(2): Phyr, CmG
AGAINST(9): BorkBot, clementine, McPwnage, Dust, GriM-DeMoN, Mopin, Rihfok, Nick, Fragos

While seems certain that we wont go through with this plan, I'd love to hear everyone else's opinions on the matter.

Also Fragos, Escaho has later claimed citizen, making him a largely undesirable heal target.

Not only did you neglect to put my "against" vote in the tally, you also basically told the Doctor not to heal me tonight so that you would be guaranteed a mafia kill. Get your scumminess outta here, Mopin!

And I did not claim only Citizen. I also claimed Sheriff, Jester, Mafioso, Lookout, and Witch.

And now I claim Sleuth and Corrupt Journalist! Get off my nuts, yo!

[McJesus]

I claim your mom!

[Fragos]

I claim myself Janitor, Arsonist, and Banshee. How is that?

Seriously, you are just a bunch of trolls.

[CmG]

Mafia please kill Escaho, Dust and Sumikoko to frame me! I was the Serial killer stabbing them gud in FM11 and it felt so good.

YOUR TEARS SUSTAIN ME WAHAHAAHAHAHA!

[CmG]

Sigh lets read this tl dr post from phyr...

[CmG]

No i wont read that in detail

The Idea is ok but Mafia players are to 90% pussies. I would like to see some different shit happen once in a while. Everybody seems to neglect that there are 2 Mafia teams. I bet on Day 2 we have 2 Mafs already on the Graveyard like in FM11 cuz 2 Scum teams is too random to balance

[CmG]

The Balrog of Mogorrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrth!

[creedkingsx]

Okay, now that I read through some of all that, I am Against it.
Like someone said, we don't exactly gain much from the whole ordeal. A dirty Sleuth or Framer can easily set themselves up in a nice situation, and, once more, so many people are against, investigative roles and protective roles probably won't go through with it, making any mafia role that goes unnoticed look like investigative, given the so few that visited.