Day 5 - Bloodbath

[fm Goonswarm]

-vote Dimwit

I shouldn't have to explain.

[fm Zane]

Disclaimer:

I do not know Sumi's role, and we have never discussed the game outside of chat.

Banhammer inc.

[fm Ganondorf]

He can steal the item BEFORE I give it to someone. After I give it to someone, I don't have it anymore, and he therefore can't steal it. I can't NOT give away an item I make.

Isn't that exactly what you did with Narks? You made an item and didn't give it away, so you handed it over to him during the day.

I can't see how you are somehow protected from theft by keeping your item either. You make an item, he steals it, you can't give it away the next day because you don't have it anymore and the thief happily shoots someone the next night.

It's pretty simple logic and I don't understand why you don't get it, or somehow believe that the dark thief is too dumb to see through your obvious lie when his own list of theft effects contradicts your statement.

[fm Zane]

*day chat

That was almost bad.

[fm Vornskr]

Wow. Just wow. That's a lot of posts to read since I left this morning.

Opinion on Dimwit: Not Jester because notes do not suggest it. I think he had an honest slip-up.
Opinion on Zane: If Admiral is mafia (which I suspect her to be) then Zane is also likely to be mafia because of his Freudian slip just now.
Opinion on Deathfire: He's lying about being a thief. He is COM Deathfire123 and so its his level of lying.
Opinion on Echonian: Since I believe the Masons I believe him.
Opinion on TheWaaagh: What Muso did as Oops has very little bearing on what role he is as this account. Quick Muso check. TheWaaagh, in FM9 you, as Matvei, repped me, as Sacha. What COM account did I claim? OR, what did your rep say?
Opinion on Nick: I think he's a citizen. Even though I didn't read that part of day 4 I can see the effects and I see how it makes sense.

Opinion on Voting: I'm refraining from voting in typical Dust style.

[fm Ganondorf]

Wow. Just wow. That's a lot of posts to read since I left this morning.

Opinion on Dimwit: Not Jester because notes do not suggest it. I think he had an honest slip-up.
Opinion on Zane: If Admiral is mafia (which I suspect her to be) then Zane is also likely to be mafia because of his Freudian slip just now.
Opinion on Deathfire: He's lying about being a thief. He is COM Deathfire123 and so its his level of lying.
Opinion on Echonian: Since I believe the Masons I believe him.
Opinion on TheWaaagh: What Muso did as Oops has very little bearing on what role he is as this account. Quick Muso check. TheWaaagh, in FM9 you, as Matvei, repped me, as Sacha. What COM account did I claim? OR, what did your rep say?
Opinion on Nick: I think he's a citizen. Even though I didn't read that part of day 4 I can see the effects and I see how it makes sense.

Opinion on Voting: I'm refraining from voting in typical Dust style.

Zane was talking about fm Sumikoko (ajkei). He was trying to say that he and ajkei did not cheat and that ajkei legitimately discovered who he was.

If anything, there could be a connection to fm Zane and fm Sumikoko. Not to fm Admiral.

[fm Ganondorf]

A connection betwixt Zane and Sumikoko. Darnit.

[fm Ambient]

I'm sure Nick is Town, I must admit what he pulled was clever, what Fred pulled after was stupid. Not to take credit away from Nick.
He's town i see no other reason why he would lynch his own mafia buddy except for trust but i don't think so.
Echonian's claim is pretty convincing i see no reason to doubt him.

I gotta get up very early tomorrow so i am leaving.

I noticed alot of people didn't read through last day so i'll kinda repeat what i know.

------------------------------------------------------------------day4 ending-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oops called out Fred as we know because he blocked him and there was no kill. Then i don't know in what order Nick and Fred claimed doc and Nick put up his PMs.
Not soon after Fred put up his PMs too, suddenly Nick reveals his were faked and Fred's are 100% identical (like literally the fucking same). He's lynched tada He's Framer so the fucking oops call made no sense but it was worth it. the masons revealed their ML and called out for heals etc etc, it's irrelevant but i called Crimson as 4th mason and sadly that might be why he was killed. Maybe they didn't trust it too because Narks said they weren't that obvious (stating that Crimson wasn't)
I can't remember the votes nor do i take notes, but nobody was really defending Fred at all, we had some votes on Kevin still going because for some reason people said he claimed was witch which was never comfirmed. There was a gamethrew 'event' that you all know about. I can remember Goon posting alot more thought so don't pull the lurk card too soon but the others , posted nothing.
That's the big picture, i'll write more tomorrow but as i said G2G to bed

[fm Ambient]

^ yes alot of mistakes , i just spotted em. Get at me tomos

[fm TheWaaagh]

I think you claimed ganondorf, vornskr. Jacques little field blah blah

[fm TheWaaagh]

I find it amusing that we've used the same identity check for the past 6 fms

[fm Deathfire123]

So, you guys do realize, this kind of thinking is why neutrals prefer to side with mafia. Because Town is, "BLAH THEY'LL BETRAY US, LYNCH THEM!"

[fm Ganondorf]

------------------------------------------------------------------day4 ending-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oops called out Fred as we know because he blocked him and there was no kill. Then i don't know in what order Nick and Fred claimed doc and Nick put up his PMs.
Not soon after Fred put up his PMs too, suddenly Nick reveals his were faked and Fred's are 100% identical (like literally the fucking same). He's lynched tada He's Framer so the fucking oops call made no sense but it was worth it. the masons revealed their ML and called out for heals etc etc, it's irrelevant but i called Crimson as 4th mason and sadly that might be why he was killed. Maybe they didn't trust it too because Narks said they weren't that obvious (stating that Crimson wasn't)
I can't remember the votes nor do i take notes, but nobody was really defending Fred at all, we had some votes on Kevin still going because for some reason people said he claimed was witch which was never comfirmed. There was a gamethrew 'event' that you all know about. I can remember Goon posting alot more thought so don't pull the lurk card too soon but the others , posted nothing.
That's the big picture, i'll write more tomorrow but as i said G2G to bed

I think Crimson may have been killed because the mafia thought that he was the jailor. Narks confirmed that he was jailed at some point (I can't remember which night) and the masons were defending Crimson for no reason and swore that he wasn't a mason.

Narks, when you read this, can you please repeat when you were jailed? Was it night 3?

[fm Plato]

@Plato, can you please give reasoning for each of your Sheriff checks? Why those 5?

I gave my reasoning for the first three on day three.

My fourth check was intended for going those who didn't oppose Lysergic, as I believed it became pretty clear that he was a mafia hooker with his death. I had planned on changing my check to either NorthStar or Auckmid, but I had forgotten to do so on a timely manner.

My fifth check was random.org, seriously. I put in Auckmid, Northstar, Phillie, Ganondorf and randomed between them. Phillie was added to the list, because she was being relatively silent.

[fm Ganondorf]

Do yourself a favor and don't check me tonight. I've been thinking that NorthStar might have been a good disguise target for Fragos. If it's him though, you won't be able to find him yet.

[fm Philie]

So, once again, I am about to hammer Dimwit and Deathfire. Any objections?

[fm Philie]

The day has lasted long enough. I'm about to start laying on the votes. My ideal lynch number for today is 8. That's enough that we should be able to hit a large portion of the mafia and, with any luck, the arsonist, whie being low enough that the chance of hitting the entire mafia, however small, remains minimal and we cannot be acccused of "Mass Extermination"

[fm Ambient]

YEs philie (sup guys can't sleep) why Hammer when we still have a day left and half of the ppl havn't talked , oke yeah they are scummy but still , patience young padiwan

[fm Narks]

So, you guys do realize, this kind of thinking is why neutrals prefer to side with mafia. Because Town is, "BLAH THEY'LL BETRAY US, LYNCH THEM!"

This is simply untrue. If there was no mass lynch day I would NOT be pushing for your lynch whatsoever. But because we can freely lynch anyone, neutrals will betray us if given the opportunity (i.e. - 5 town, 5 mafia, 1 survivor? No guarantee who he sides with).

I think Crimson may have been killed because the mafia thought that he was the jailor. Narks confirmed that he was jailed at some point (I can't remember which night) and the masons were defending Crimson for no reason and swore that he wasn't a mason.

Narks, when you read this, can you please repeat when you were jailed? Was it night 3?

Yes, I was jailed on Night 3.

[fm Ambient]

Also could you like take the vote off me or not hammer me bcs i'm going to bed out for atleast 14 hours, and i wanna defend myself. That's all , later chaps

[fm Ambient]

Btw Narks , mafia wins 5town 5 mafia 90% of time , just saying....

[fm Goonswarm]

This is simply untrue. If there was no mass lynch day I would NOT be pushing for your lynch whatsoever. But because we can freely lynch anyone, neutrals will betray us if given the opportunity (i.e. - 5 town, 5 mafia, 1 survivor? No guarantee who he sides with).

In that scenario, even if survivor sides with town, unless they get very lucky with their lynch and get a killing roll that day, they're still going to get fucked over in the night. And the town will likely lose as a result. I really don't agree with your logic here.

[fm Philie]

In that scenario, even if survivor sides with town, unless they get very lucky with their lynch and get a killing roll that day, they're still going to get fucked over in the night. And the town will likely lose as a result. I really don't agree with your logic here.

That was a bad example, but still, the morale is there, and I agree.

[fm Echonian]

Isn't that exactly what you did with Narks? You made an item and didn't give it away, so you handed it over to him during the day.

I can't see how you are somehow protected from theft by keeping your item either. You make an item, he steals it, you can't give it away the next day because you don't have it anymore and the thief happily shoots someone the next night.

It's pretty simple logic and I don't understand why you don't get it, or somehow believe that the dark thief is too dumb to see through your obvious lie when his own list of theft effects contradicts your statement.

You have no clue how my role works. I don't make an item the night before and then give it during the day. I make and give the item in a single PM. So when I give an item during the day, there is no chance for a thief to steal it at night since it is made and given THAT day.

[fm Philie]

Someone unvote Dimwit.

[fm Goonswarm]

That was a bad example, but still, the morale is there, and I agree.

Well, I don't think it's the right call, but you guys will do what you do.

I'm just waiting for him to be lying and come up mafia after the inevitable lynch. That'll really mess up my shit.

[fm Goonswarm]

Unless I get lynched today, which is a possibility. Then my shit will be just fine.

[fm Philie]

go off for a few miniutes, but this is my last major chance of the computer. This is the time I want to lay on the votes.

[fm Philie]

Going off for a few miniutes. This is my last major chance of the computer and the time I want to lay on the votes.

*Fixed*

[fm Narks]

In that scenario, even if survivor sides with town, unless they get very lucky with their lynch and get a killing roll that day, they're still going to get fucked over in the night. And the town will likely lose as a result. I really don't agree with your logic here.

It all depends. You're looking at it as if the game started that way. But the time this game would ever end up in a 5v5v1 result, most people would have an idea of who is who.

And how you can not see my logic? A lot of you are not thinking about this special event we have today. I'll lay it out for you:

-Normally in a game of Mafia, a Survivor can be a benefit or a detriment. It is never clear how he will vote and, because he will always win with the winning side, he will always help who is currently winning. If Mafia become the dominant group, Deathfire will side with them. I know how to play Survivor and I'm sure many of you do as well. You lie/make promises. If you have to jump ship to win, you do it. That's the life of a Survivor.
-HOWEVER: Mafia can claim to be Survivors. This can buy them time and people may deem them a non-threat, at least for a particular amount of time. So can killing neutrals (Arsonist).
-In this particular game, we have come upon a scenario where the former Arsonist can disguise himself as another player. What better role to take than a Survivor, someone who many people deem a non-threat?
-Today is also a MULTIPLE LYNCH DAY. People seem to be forgetting this. Killing all non-town roles narrows the possible roles someone can possibly be and where they can possibly hide.
-Finally, if I reversed my decision and decided to keep Deathfire alive, if given the opportunity I believe he would fuck town over for how hard I've rallied against him. But he may also be the Dark Thief who was re-rolled and someone people are afraid to take that chance? Why?

[fm Narks]

Well, I don't think it's the right call, but you guys will do what you do.

I'm just waiting for him to be lying and come up mafia after the inevitable lynch. That'll really mess up my shit.

Unless you are mafia trying to save your Dark Thief. Just pointing that out. You've made it a point that you'll be just fine as long as you don't get the votes, so there's no likelihood in you role claiming until then. Therefore, you'll try and help out your buds as best you can.

[fm Narks]

Btw Narks , mafia wins 5town 5 mafia 90% of time , just saying....

I don't believe your statistics. 5 town vs 5 mafia. Town cannot lynch unless they have a Mayor. If they do not, they MUST have a Bus Driver, Jailor, Vigilante, Veteran, or Bodyguard/Doctor combo in play to win. Otherwise they lose.

[fm Goonswarm]

It all depends. You're looking at it as if the game started that way. But the time this game would ever end up in a 5v5v1 result, most people would have an idea of who is who.

And how you can not see my logic? A lot of you are not thinking about this special event we have today. I'll lay it out for you:

-Normally in a game of Mafia, a Survivor can be a benefit or a detriment. It is never clear how he will vote and, because he will always win with the winning side, he will always help who is currently winning. If Mafia become the dominant group, Deathfire will side with them. I know how to play Survivor and I'm sure many of you do as well. You lie/make promises. If you have to jump ship to win, you do it. That's the life of a Survivor.
-HOWEVER: Mafia can claim to be Survivors. This can buy them time and people may deem them a non-threat, at least for a particular amount of time. So can killing neutrals (Arsonist).
-In this particular game, we have come upon a scenario where the former Arsonist can disguise himself as another player. What better role to take than a Survivor, someone who many people deem a non-threat?
-Today is also a MULTIPLE LYNCH DAY. People seem to be forgetting this. Killing all non-town roles narrows the possible roles someone can possibly be and where they can possibly hide.
-Finally, if I reversed my decision and decided to keep Deathfire alive, if given the opportunity I believe he would fuck town over for how hard I've rallied against him. But he may also be the Dark Thief who was re-rolled and someone people are afraid to take that chance? Why?

I guess that it's not that I don't see your logic, it's that I disagree with your mindset. Part of the fun of the game for me is winning with as many town and aligned neutrals as possible, because it makes the victory seem bigger.

I agree with your last point, though. If you'd pushed to have me killed this hard and then it ended up not happening, I'd just be biding my time until I could make you regret it.

It's Philie's decision at this point anyway, I'm just saying what I feel.

[fm Ganondorf]

You have no clue how my role works. I don't make an item the night before and then give it during the day. I make and give the item in a single PM. So when I give an item during the day, there is no chance for a thief to steal it at night since it is made and given THAT day.

[Blacksmith]
*Inventory: Various Blacksmith tools
You cannot use your own tools that you make.
Choose one of the following:

Lvl 1 -Make Armour (will be a 1 night protective vest)

Lvl 1 -Make a Gun (will be a 1 shot pistol)

Lvl 3 -Make a sword (will be an attack similar to SK, no limit on uses)

You can give one item per day/night cycle to any player.
Giving items during the day will expose your role to that player but will allow him to use that item the same night.
Giving items during the night will hide your identity but will only allow him to use that item the next night.

To Lvl Up: Your guns must be used to help town. Guns that hurt town will reset your lvl counter. (A mafia using your gun to kill a neutral will be considered helping town)
You will be notified when you level up.

Where does it say that you can make an item during the day? It only says that you can give the item during the day. To me it looks like the making action is supposed to happen at night.

So you are saying that you can instantly make an item during the day and give it away? That doesn't make any sense to me. But whatever, I'll take your word for it because you're apparently proven by Narks.

[fm Narks]

I guess that it's not that I don't see your logic, it's that I disagree with your mindset. Part of the fun of the game for me is winning with as many town and aligned neutrals as possible, because it makes the victory seem bigger.

I agree with your last point, though. If you'd pushed to have me killed this hard and then it ended up not happening, I'd just be biding my time until I could make you regret it.

It's Philie's decision at this point anyway, I'm just saying what I feel.

I understand. If this were a normal game of Mafia, I would not be pushing for his lynch whatsoever. I also like to win with anyone that can win with my faction (In this case, as Town, anyone that wins with Town is cool with me). However, with all the random re-rolls and a multi-lynch day, this is an opportunity to limit those who may turn on us. Just sayin'. =\

[fm Ganondorf]

This isn't a matter of being nice. We have no way of knowing that Deathfire is really a survivor. He might have been changed into some scum role by now while he pretends to remain unchanged. Or he was never a survivor to begin with. By eliminating Deathfire, we eliminate a potential enemy.

[fm Goonswarm]

I understand. If this were a normal game of Mafia, I would not be pushing for his lynch whatsoever. I also like to win with anyone that can win with my faction (In this case, as Town, anyone that wins with Town is cool with me). However, with all the random re-rolls and a multi-lynch day, this is an opportunity to limit those who may turn on us. Just sayin'. =\

It is pretty crazy how little we have to go on five days in. Our investigative roles, however many remain, haven't had much of anything to say, and with all the modkill replacements it's hard to get a sense of anybody's character, even.

I would like to hear more from Guardian, still. I don't remember all of his six posts, but his two today didn't amount to much more than, "Wow, what a lot of reading."

[fm Philie]

Unvote Dimwit someone.

[fm Narks]

Goonswarm, you should unvote Dimwit. Philie will hammer.

[fm Goonswarm]

-unvote Dimwit

By popular demand.

[fm Ganondorf]

Why should he unvote? If he's a jester, it does NOT decrease the number of deaths.

[fm Ganondorf]

Unvote Dimwit

[fm Ganondorf]

If you're going to hammer this early, I'm not going to be on the pile unless it's 12 players in size.

[fm Philie]

Oops. Your right. 13 is the optimal number, lol. Okay, false alarm, put your votes back on.

[fm Goonswarm]

I was wondering if we could just scare up four or however many more votes so Philie didn't have to vote on him, in the event that the jester calls are correct. I don't think they are, but better to err on the side of caution.

[fm Philie]

I am not sure how much I am going to be able to use the computer tommoro. This is the best time for me to place my votes. I see no reason to prolong the lynch of these 2.

-Vote Deathfire (HAMERED)

[fm Narks]

If you're going to hammer this early, I'm not going to be on the pile unless it's 12 players in size.

Why 12? 10 votes + philie = 11.

Last time there 22 votes and only 5 people were killed. Looks like it rounds down?

So 11 votes would only kill 2 people?

[fm Goonswarm]

-vote Dimwit

[fm Ganondorf]

I was wondering if we could just scare up four or however many more votes so Philie didn't have to vote on him, in the event that the jester calls are correct. I don't think they are, but better to err on the side of caution.

That's not a good idea. Philie's extra votes reduce the number of jester deaths by 1. Because 1/4th of the voteRs dies and Philie reduces the number of voters needed.

[fm Philie]

Okay, lets check the rules. Stay online Goon, we may have need of you.