S-FM 362: ?KRC: Odyssey through the Ages

[FM-Fast Fish]

Too many smart players here.

[FM-Purple Forest]

Don't worry, I posted that to be funny.



@FM-Angry Clown ,
Can you speak a bit about why you're reading Mountian Tops well? It's not a read that I can follow at that point in time. And I'd like your take on Bosun, what with all the bells and whistles.



@FM-Bosun
Do you have any reads on any slots this game? {note: I saw that you had posted some lightly later, could you repeat and clarify reasoning for them?}



This is a simple thing, but it's a good thing to note and callout, and implies at minimum an eye for detail and inner workings of the mind. (To put more clearly, I think its ultimately villagery to point this out and will add Mountain into my own town forest, but accept that this is also something that is minimally easy for a scumboni to do).



I don't disagree and I'm glad to see pressure there. The only thing I have to really note on the slot is that I get the feeling they're likely a "scummy" player regardless of alignment, but would still lean scum at this juncture from what I've seen.



I quoted the wrong thing I think, but I want to unpair you and Wine Mom from this and Wine Mom's reaction I think. [Also, @FM-Wine Mom , I actually think a wolfmate would more likely not respond this way to a w!Bosun gaining heat, and instead likely deflect or +1 on a village push elsewhere. {Which, actually, makes me want to look at Clown's push on Harry now. But I won't.}]

Think this post is probably towny for bad reasons, not really sure how I'd explain but it just kind of feels towny.



Generally it depends, but either way, if collusion is not enabled, wolves are still generally free to share the event information. @FM-Snail Streamer , have you any reads or focuses as of yet; notably would not mind your own thoughts onto Wine Mom.

Boop.
Hm. I should look back into that especially if I unpaired Mom and Incognito in the past. Bleh.

[FM-Ryast]

Ryast, I trust you because I respect when you said your wolf play was good. Do you really think Wine Mom and Snail are taking me for a ride here?

Wine no
Snail yes

If I am keeping to the tinfoil here

Wine mom looks like they got major pocketed somehow by them

I have less issues with Wine than I do with Snail

frankly my plan earlier was to be death noted and do something super sneaky with Snail and then get all the town cred d3

[FM-Purple Forest]

Too many smart players here.

Don’t worry I’m only smart once in a blue moon and as far as I’m aware the moon is not yet full!

What was the Mom thing that you had?

[FM-Purple Forest]

Can you guys stop being martyrs and instead not leave me alone. I’ll miss you and I want more dead wolves and dead ???reads instead of dead cuties.

[FM-Purple Forest]

Oh no now that I said something gay the wolf backup will bisexual blast me.

[FM-Fast Fish]

Don’t worry I’m only smart once in a blue moon and as far as I’m aware the moon is not yet full!

What was the Mom thing that you had?

Well, if Snail is scum - Wine mom must certainly be.

[FM-Ryast]

Well, if Snail is scum - Wine mom must certainly be.

there's other possibilities

like what if they were secretly loverized

they would have no reason to share but all the reason to back each other up

[FM-Fast Fish]

Like that's literally the only way the puzzle fits.

[FM-Mountain Tops]

For transparency’s sake, I am in a Day chat with Incognito at the moment.

This, as far as I can tell, is the first mention of the chat with Incognito. At this point, Fish had already been hard-sussing Incognito, and there might have been other people expressing suspicion already; I'd have to check. Regardless, Fish was hard-tunneled so Incognito was definitely in some danger.

Wine Mom is trying to assert that she's cleared because Incognito stole her rolecard with that ability - but all that has to happen for that clear to be fake is:

- Wolves choose to use that ability later, and a different ability N1
- Wine Mom sees Incognito getting in trouble, and decides to capitalize on it like this

OR, in theory (though I think it's more likely the above), it could just be planned from the start - in which case all wolf Wine Mom has to give up is a use of this ability. This is worth way, way less than the life of a scum member, and yet she is trying to assert this is a hard clear.

[FM-Fast Fish]

@FM-Aliens Are Real thoughts?

[FM-Purple Forest]

Hm.
I think I might be too tired to understand mechanical ramifications when I’ve barely read the flips and when I have it’s been on mobile but I ultimately think you’re coming at this from a respectable angle even if it is incorrect.

[FM-Fast Fish]

This, as far as I can tell, is the first mention of the chat with Incognito. At this point, Fish had already been hard-sussing Incognito, and there might have been other people expressing suspicion already; I'd have to check. Regardless, Fish was hard-tunneled so Incognito was definitely in some danger.

Wine Mom is trying to assert that she's cleared because Incognito stole her rolecard with that ability - but all that has to happen for that clear to be fake is:

- Wolves choose to use that ability later, and a different ability N1
- Wine Mom sees Incognito getting in trouble, and decides to capitalize on it like this

OR, in theory (though I think it's more likely the above), it could just be planned from the start - in which case all wolf Wine Mom has to give up is a use of this ability. This is worth way, way less than the life of a scum member, and yet she is trying to assert this is a hard clear.

You actually be right, and I hate that but wouldn't the best lynch here be Zoomer?

[FM-Fast Fish]

Hm.
I think I might be too tired to understand mechanical ramifications when I’ve barely read the flips and when I have it’s been on mobile but I ultimately think you’re coming at this from a respectable angle even if it is incorrect.

huh? who is incorrect me?

[FM-Purple Forest]

Well, if Snail is scum - Wine mom must certainly be.

Mayyybe? I’m not too caught up on their interactions there but I don’t know if it’s out of hand for them to be w/t. I don’t want to tell you you’re wrong when I am not very caught up between them but I have no reason to agree nor disagree with you.

[FM-Purple Forest]

huh? who is incorrect me?

No, sorry, Mountain.
And I’m not saying that Mountain is incorrect I’m saying I think the assumption of it is fine and towny even if Mom isn’t scum.

[FM-Mountain Tops]

You actually be right, and I hate that but wouldn't the best lynch here be Zoomer?

Yeah Zoomer would look pretty bad if Wine is a wolf
Alternatively, Wine directly but I realize that's risky

[FM-Purple Forest]

I will go to sleep now though. I don’t know if I’ll be on at EoD again but I think my pressure list from before still rings true. As well as thinking EoD1 could be looked over again with some fresh eyes if not done so already. I’ll likely go dig into actual wagonomics in my own hands by Day3 if I’m able to as well though, I just… lack the time now. Wowee.

[FM-Aliens Are Real]

@FM-Aliens Are Real thoughts?

Right now this interaction

-vote FM-Jiraffe

a lot of their posts are very pingy to me, is anyone else feeling this? sort of strange treatment by thread as well (tho not terribly unique)

also have not read much from them but disliked that post soooooo much

don't get this at all, i don't like a single one of their reads. they feel pretty shallow to me. not shallow in a super wolfy way, it's shallow in the way i find usually comes from villagers i misread, but not somebody i'd tr based on mindmelds. guess we just aren't on the same page.

Wow if pink slip and jiraffe were mafia here, I'd call them partnered!

I'd also call it agenda

so i take it you disagree then?

Well, I never said that. What I did say was that it's a wolf shaped post from you, Jiraffe

and why's that?

It reads like you're almost sitting behind one of those way-too-tall-chairs and wearing a black hoodie (couldn't find the cape, unfortunately) and cackling mechanically in your best Palpatine impression because quote "everything is going according to plan" while writing that post

I would give you benefit of the down if you didn't seem like such an evil goose sorry

so why am i an evil goose now? idk ifg u noticed but i admitted that like, my vote was for fun. do you still scumread it? why?

It goes on but looks good for Jiraffe. Not beyond scum bussing and kinda silly but the interaction felt genuine.


You are probably asking about whats going on right now but I have limited time and need to dig through the flips and evaluate reads in context to them. I do intend to look at Snail though. The pool they drew for death note kills felt opportunistic hitting on high contribution players who do have people town reading them over low contribution players that could be sorted with lower cost to the town.

A part of me is angry to be getting put on some "Your gona get killed" shit without so much as being asked questions or having people point to things about me they feel are scummy but I am trying to keep that bit out of my judgment.

[FM-Purple Forest]

I do also think that Lady should be removed from PoE because I see no reason for us to put women in the PoE to begin with. I do kind of just townread the slot though but a lot of that was from the wake of EoD1. Especially if y’all think wolves are overpowering some other obvious town I think it’s a good idea to stand up for these townreads that are getting heat.

This is an oppressive game to play and you need to keep that in mind.

[FM-Purple Forest]

Aliens I appreciate you.
Keep it up sport.

[FM-Fast Fish]

I do also think that Lady should be removed from PoE because I see no reason for us to put women in the PoE to begin with. I do kind of just townread the slot though but a lot of that was from the wake of EoD1. Especially if y’all think wolves are overpowering some other obvious town I think it’s a good idea to stand up for these townreads that are getting heat.

This is an oppressive game to play and you need to keep that in mind.

I had a woman bench press me yesterday and slap me on the ass. Not sure what women you hang out with.

[FM-Fast Fish]

Anyways, that should be enough fun stuff to review for tomorrow.

[FM-Mountain Tops]

This is Wine Mom's posts regarding who to shoot in ITA1.

i've been disliking raincoat cat, feels like they're in the sort of middling inoffensive position wolves like. great speech is doing ok, bosun has been vaguely weird but not nearly bad enough to justify 8 votes so i'd like to start something else. i found bosun insisting "no nulls" early on to be stupid but within the realm of town plausibility. i still like a wasteland vote but i'm accepting it's not happening atp. i'm gonna look through for a vote.

- -

bosun: not worthy of being this uncontested a wagon imo
purple forest: liked them
white square: no thoughts right now
jiraffe: they've been fine
great speech: i've liked them enough
mtn dew horse: want to look into this
zoomer power: nothingburger
angry clown: no thoughts
mountain tops: extremely villagery
wasteland: still like this vote but nobody else does
green nya: no thoughts
dirty harry: prefer not
incognito: they've been fine
raincoat cat: mentioned above

gotta go out for lunch so i'll be a moment.

- -

I think Raincoat needs to be on all shot lists for today

I’ll start:
Raincoat
Great Speech

Raincoat
Dirty Harry
Great Speech
Maybe Wasteland? I personally have no opinion whatsoever on that slot

Purple forest is a townie. I would put Raincoat and Lovely Bug on the list.

Considering giving Dirty Harry some space given the Pink Slip read there. I would kill Raincoat, Lovely Bug, and maybe Aliens.

Also what's changed your mind on Dirty Harry/Great Speech? or is it just that you didn't find consensus supporting that

As far as Great Speech goes, I still don't find them townie but I hesitate because I think I might be scumreading their personality. Wouldn't hate to see them flip regardless, but I wouldn't bet on it.

Well that slot was completely rand wasn't it.

Time to shoot the actual wolves (Raincoat and Lovely Bug)

Though if we want Wasteland to flip because we've wasted so many shots inflicting wounds on them already I'm happy to shoot there

And yet! She goes on to post this:

Wasteland was one of the players I pushed in the name of the NK. Was I incorrect to do that? Clearly not!

Wasteland was one of the players I pushed in the name of the NK. Was I incorrect to do that? Clearly not!

I would explain this myself but Lady has already done it here:


This is revisionist history. You said multiple times before ITA1 that you thought Wasteland might be a miss.

Raincoat
Dirty Harry
Great Speech
Maybe Wasteland? I personally have no opinion whatsoever on that slot

Right, okay. In my heart of hearts I think wasteland flips green and I also think Aliens flips red. I will not defend wasteland though.

Then you wrote an extremely bloated ITA list. I'm not convinced that you're town with the way that the things you directed resolved. To the point that I'm now getting worried that Lovely Bug might be a villager. You placed just enough pressure on Wasteland to be able to claim some credit without actually participating in pushing him at all. The fact that you held your shot until after multiple shots had resolved on Wasteland also looks like it could be mafia trying to get his on-death reward.

I don't see any justification for how much Wasteland was left off the lists. Nor do I see any justification for Wine Mom taking the credit she did, when it's quite clear she did not contribute to Wasteland's flip, and realistically actively worked against it.

[FM-Aliens Are Real]

Anyways, that should be enough fun stuff to review for tomorrow.

You can ask me whatever and I will get to it when I can but I am not up to be heavily interactive right now and I am working with rather limited time. That last read wall (1146) came after 3 hours of building notes and another hour or so to unpack them into solid thoughts

[FM-Mountain Tops]

Oh and in addition to all that - Pink Slip was suspicious of Wine Mom D1:

unlike my friend madoka here i'm not unemployed and lemme just say it's taken it out of me today. i'd like to realtime a bit if anybody's around.




could you explain why you've been liking wine mom? i found their posts kind of agenda-y, feels like they're playing to the crowd a bit with their confidence. it's the kind of stuff that sounds better than it is. they've got a lot of flair for the dramatic. let me iso real quick:



in particular i think this kind of post is real showy and authoritative, i see it from town a lot of course but it's the kind of person i'm nervous about actually giving the thread control they seem to want.





i can see what's being gestured at here and i appreciate the early casing, but this is also the kind of l1 case a wolf can make really easily. hard to say this early, of course, without much substantiation for anybody you can't really tell apart genuine and faked cases, but i don't see it as a good reason to townread.



this is the kind of thing i'm talking about when i say wine mom feels like somebody trying to look casual/showy and use it to push agenda. it just feels like wine mom is really putting on a persona here.



the "mountain tops should be town leader" quote is what seems awkward to me. feels like george washington dramatically giving up the presidency after 2 terms, if you know what i mean. making a big show of handing over power to somebody else. feels like a villager should be more cautious here.



this is the post that really caught my eye when i was catching up. it's got a certain voice to it, it feels like a dramatic persona, like the murderer at the dinner party swirling a wine glass when they talk. could just be anon throwing me off here, but wine mom's got the cadence of a liar, y'know?



not much to say here, i don't get why wine mom is holding off on providing judgment here when they've shown no hesitance anywhere else. if wine mom themselves wants to explain why they're not feeling strong on ryast's alignment i'd love to hear it.

And finally, Orange Iris confirmed that there were no attacks last night on Lady of the Lake and Wine Mom. The two people who got voted for president, two of the biggest townreads yesterday. And we know for a fact that wolves had a 10 damage wound in Incognito's role.

[FM-Fast Fish]

I like how GCR just resigned himself to death in the towniest way possible. Like "yeah I'm meowt"

[FM-Aliens Are Real]

Oh and in addition to all that - Pink Slip was suspicious of Wine Mom D1:



And finally, Orange Iris confirmed that there were no attacks last night on Lady of the Lake and Wine Mom. The two people who got voted for president, two of the biggest townreads yesterday. And we know for a fact that wolves had a 10 damage wound in Incognito's role.

I fought myself from pointing that out in the past. I am glad that you picked up on it. Shows how many town are actually going back and hunting vs taking this vague rhetoric thats spewed and eating it up like its fact.

[FM-Mountain Tops]

If it wasn't obvious, I'm pretty convinced now. And I want to see where this goes.

-vote FM-Wine Mom

[FM-Aliens Are Real]

Also fighting myself from staying out of this chat so I can focus but- How many town ACTUALLY went back and dug through Pink post flip vs how many sat around listening to others talk about what Pink thought?

One of the big problems when people just take vague stances right there. I bet a lot of you that read this are gona know my words are describing you.

[FM-Sassy Witch]

[SPOILER] @FM-Fast Fish @FM-Happy Drunk @FM-Jiraffe @FM-Orange Iris @FM-Sassy Witch @FM-Smug Viking @FM-Wine Mom @FM-Zoomer Power [/SPOILER]

Please vote between the following options for the use of my death note. Note that whoever I pick will Die at EoD3 , and they can not die by any other means until that phase. If you have another contender and make a convincing case Im also willing to hear

* Ryast
* Gay Cat Rock
* Lady Of The Lake
* Purple Forest
* Aliens are real

If I picked one now I'd say i don't know
Am crashing after a hell week though lady seems bad if we impeach them right? It roleblocks them then can look tomorrow like we just leave for tomorrow also seemd people trusted earlyier so to me leaving a pubically roleblocked player alive that is posting and likely readable seems like a really good idea!

[FM-Fast Fish]

@FM-Lady of the Lake tomorrow, please hold the lynch on GCR unless I explicitly tell you not to.

[FM-Fast Fish]

If I picked one now I'd say i don't know
Am crashing after a hell week though lady seems bad if we impeach them right? It roleblocks them then can look tomorrow like we just leave for tomorrow also seemd people trusted earlyier so to me leaving a pubically roleblocked player alive that is posting and likely readable seems like a really good idea!

Don't so that just yet, if you haven't already.

[FM-Sassy Witch]

Don't so that just yet, if you haven't already.

I did earlyier shortly after the annochement

[FM-Jiraffe]

im still in the mdidle of writing my snail post but im beginning to feel extremely nauseous and very tired. i dont think I can finish it today, which is actually very upsetting for me bc I did really want to get this done today to make my thoughts as clear as possible. it feels unfeasible without putting a serious detriment to my own comfort and health which im not about to do for a mafia game lmao

ill try to at least come up with a conclusion that, while not well explained, is a conclusion. ill post what I had written as well, but do note that i hadn't really gotten onto the discussion part of what I was writing and I was still in the "summary of events"

[FM-Fast Fish]

I did earlyier shortly after the annochement

Word. I'm about to go to bed, which sucks because I wanted to converse with you more. Throw you vote on Lolcat if you don't mind. I can explain later, but there's too many dichotomies happening and it's the safer bet.

[FM-Fast Fish]

im still in the mdidle of writing my snail post but im beginning to feel extremely nauseous and very tired. i dont think I can finish it today, which is actually very upsetting for me bc I did really want to get this done today to make my thoughts as clear as possible. it feels unfeasible without putting a serious detriment to my own comfort and health which im not about to do for a mafia game lmao

ill try to at least come up with a conclusion that, while not well explained, is a conclusion. ill post what I had written as well, but do note that i hadn't really gotten onto the discussion part of what I was writing and I was still in the "summary of events"

Snail is town you silly person. I spent a whole friggen night with them but thanks for helping me earlier.

[FM-Sassy Witch]

Word. I'm about to go to bed, which sucks because I wanted to converse with you more. Throw you vote on Lolcat if you don't mind. I can explain later, but there's too many dichotomies happening and it's the safer bet.

Sadly am also there I warned this was a terrible week hope tomorrow morning am able to

-vote FM-Lolcat

We'll do that until atleast I wake up

[FM-Fast Fish]

Sadly am also there I warned this was a terrible week hope tomorrow morning am able to

-vote FM-Lolcat

We'll do that until atleast I wake up

Thank you and yup. Till' then.

[FM-Jiraffe]

okay so overall, i really only looked at snail's SoD -> end of ITA 1, mainly bc my plan of looking at snail's entire d2 ISO regarding both wasteland + incongito had to be cut back bc of sick feelings + the fact snail has like 6 pages of content for d2 like holy

overall in that period however I'd say snail is, like a slight scumlean. i still do scumread them, at least I think I do, but not as much as the degree to which I *was* before I started reading them. i think id be ok with them dying today and tbh i can't think of many like, active non-null slots that come to head instead of them for a wagon so i'd like to keep my vote there for now

their progression on wasteland is confusing. they go from like, HARD defending wasteland to putting wasteland on their own shotlists. the progression is a lot faster than I would expect given the level of confidence they seem to have and their own reasons for reading wasteland town. this is the part I struggle with the most. I can understand having a bit of doubt in that read once you see Pink Slip's readlist but like, this is a 30 player game, what are the odds Pink Slip was killed bc they happened to scumread a lowposting scum that they (if memory serves correctly) didn't really push much. it's very strange to me and no matter how I try to picture it I can't follow that progression. they also focus a lot on wasteland in thes eopening posts but that's like pretty fair all thigns considered. their progression on Wasteland to me is very confusing, esp the fact it goes from a very confident townread to on their own shotlists in a seemingly non-conditional way (i.e if these people flip town you can shoot wasteland)

i can't follow the progression fully, and while there IS progression (which I like and is towny) its confusing and very jarring. This is why I scumlean them, looking purely at their SoD2 -> ITA 1. They got a lot of content outside of that and this is basically just me looking at one page of their 10 page ISO. I encourage others if they have time to take their own look at snail, outside of this time period, and others too. It may seem like I put in a good amount of work but tbh its not much in the grand scheme of Snail's posts. I put in a fair bit of time too but again, not much.

[FM-Jiraffe]

Spoiler : unfinished post :

to be clear, i really only looked at snail's day 2. again im kinda sick so id like to go with stuff i am currently more familiar with and thats snail's day 2 so far, bc the stuff that actually got me to scumread them all happened today. primarily the progression on the ITAs. I will elaborate further later in the post. If I feel better tomorrow I'll take a deep look at their D1 but, if that does occur, it'd likely be overnight.

Spoiler : CITATIONS :

I do not approve a Wasteland last minute CFD .

We can ITA or discuss them more later

This post is from D1. I'm putting it here to show a trend of them shielding wasteland from suspicion. Granted, being against any CFD that late in the day is pretty fair, so while this is technically a defense of wasteland it's fairly NAI.

-vote Purple Forest

This and Ryast can go

This is one of snail's opening posts, where it is established that they scumread both purple forest and Ryast, presumably most out of the remaining players. (A)

Why Wasteland???? The EoD votes on them are all sus af and possibly spew them as town

This is the beginning of Snail's real defense of Wasteland. I say "real" because I believe that the one I quoted earlier is fairly NAI, while this one is actually AI. This sparks the greater trend leading into ITA 1 where snail is very defensive of Wasteland's slot and the pressure surrounding Wasteland. (B)

Im vetoing votes on Wasteland

Another example, where snail proclaims they are "vetoing votes", implying a very strong townread of wasteland. (C)

The people tha voted them hopped off Bosun to vote Wasteland. In like, a really wolfy way.

You have Ryast that was really out of touch/not caught up, and yet entered thread to try to sell a case on Wasteland out of nowhere.

And then Purple Forest that unvoted Bosun their main sus through most of the day at EoD because they werent caught up and didnt felt like voting, to then joining a CFD ln Wasteland with little context even though Bosun was a lead wagon still? Istg Purple EoD should be considered outing and unless someone has anything clearing for them I want them dead first in ITAs

Snail explains both why they scumread purple & ryast and why they townread wasteland. All of those reads stem from the EoD flashwagon. Snail even proclaims that because of this they want purple forest dead first out of everybody.

Fuckimg read who was proposing them near EoD, it was such a scum.motivated and opportunistic wagon on a slot that was easy to question fmpov. Thats why I eant to murder Purple first to prove me right.

Their vote on Wasteland was outing

I don't have much more to add to each individual post, but I will be adding every defense of wasteland I see to the "citations"

Because wagons made it look bad for Bossun if they didnt get yeeted. The other two would look bad if the cfd went through, and like. At the end of the day those votes were not towny at all and I dont feel like they are paired with them.

So until Im proven wrong on Purple/Ryast I want to shield Wasteland here tbqh

Im saying that the flashwagon was scum motivated

Also, I was in a nightchat with Wasteland, apparently they didnt make that chat so other ability allegedly put us together there

Snail reveals they were put into a nightchat with Wasteland. To me, this gives merit to the counter argument that they simply townread wasteland. I will have explained why I don't believe this to be the case.

I still think this for someone that wasnt really caught up / up to date with wagons and entering to move votes this way is scummy

Shading of Ryast for their willingness to vote Wasteland

I dont remember much of Pink Slip reads. But Imo I think they are a indicator of me skill issuing somewhere because top of my head was pushing Raincoat/Wastelan that are two slots im leaning town and tring Purple Forest so Im losing confidence

Snail uses pink slip's read to justify a loss of confidence in a Wasteland read. (E)

Here. They said they like Great Speech, Purple and Incognito which all are thinks Knkonda disagree but seeing that them were the kill and not myself, they are more likely to be right

I may be misinterpreting this post. I think "thinks knkonda disagree" is a typo that was supposed to be "things i kinda disagree". I may be misunderstanding. Snail continues to express doubt on their own reads here, again due to Pink Slip.

If two main wagons are town what is stoppong scum to encourage a cfd on another town for example? I think if you think they are more likely to be scum just because a cfd on them was made then thats not solid at all.

Ponk Slip sussing them is a point Im weighing

Responding to a question from Lady (see post #1941 for question)

Ryast pop in at EoD was to direct votes at Wasteland.

So I can kinda vibe with one wolf in Wasteland/Ryast

Proposes the idea, based off somebody else (I think, may be misreading context) that there is likely a wolf in wasteland/ryast based on ryast's pop in EoD1

Then its clear you havent been paying attention to my posts wowee.

I did say Im more sus of Purple/Ryast . Im currently reassessing on Wasteland/Raincoat since I agree with Mom that Pink Slip had to have some reads right

ok tbf snail it was a little unclear where exactly ur head was (this post is in response to Lady saying that Snail is slow to offer their own thoughts)
I think the post mainly speaks for itself.

If its short sentences then that means they should be easier to read!!! My plan rn is mull over shooting Purple or not, leaning on yes. But uts something I want to check

And Im not doing work for you , the ITA list should have 2 or 3 names at max regardless. We are not in a mash
Ryast/Purple/Wasteland is what I would do but Im not committing to do it because there are other slots I would also want to check if I was actually proposing a list here!

This is the start of Snail's turn from hard defending Wasteland to putting them on shotlists (after, lets face it, a ton of pressure against wasteland)

I think that Sandwich, Incognito and Zoomer Selfvoting (or at least I assume so) is more likely to come from town tbh

First mention of Incognito all day! (This is a surprise tool that'll help us later!)

Wolves still are more likely to eithwr vote a wrong town or another wolf imo rather than doing a vanity selfvote that leads nowhere

Another mention of Incognito, in response to Lady's disagreement with their last post (see post #2020 by Lady)

I think Wasteland is kinda a consensus slot that should be there and after that there hasnt been much consensus

Goes from a hard defense of wasteland, shielding them from any votes, to the fact Wasteland is (and apparently should be) a consensus slot

Basically the chat I had with Wasteland overnight the most read-wise mentioned was them saying I was cooking with some takes that I dont feel as confident now and uhmmm not much else. They tred Bosun ig .

But at the same time the place to chat makes having a fluid communication kinda hard.

Snail again mentions lack of confidence in their own reads. It's worth mentioning they are still pushing purple a good amount during this time, albeit not as blatanly



Just realized I literally never read through ITA 1 LMAO. Lemme do that. This and maybe ITA 2 will be the only time I directly quote non-snail posts I find important for citation purposes. I'll put a timestamp next to each post I quote, since realtiming is important during ITAs

DONT SHOOT ME TF?!?

wasteland showing up as SOON as itas start is actually kinda funny (00). it might be coincidental but that had to be a ping in wolf chat, esp with the fact they came in saying to NOT shoot them

I have 2 ITAs btw , but I dont think Im going to shoot in this session, I dont have confidence on a scumread and want to have time to read stuff/see how things develop

Im fine taking it sloow

Combining both of these as 1, since they both refer to snail's wanting to "take it slow". This is also their first mention of having 2 ITAs. (05 for both)

Btw apparently our chat with Wasteland is still active , they just asked. I noticed when I went to check about the square mention . On one hand I dont want to lose a potential hood but the appealing without claim makes me feel kinda iffy, but outing this here regardless

Just sort of hedgey on wastelands slot. "Oh i dont wanna lose a potential hood but appealing without the claim idk...." Kinda weird to me. (07)



Drunk during the ITA 1 period does pressure people within thread, including snail, to shoot repeatedly.

FISH I KNOW YOU ARE HERE, SHOOT IN THE LIST

SNAIL TOO

Both posts one after the other (16)

Oh, You got the chat?

I targeted Purple and Wasteland. Somehow got redirected.
Btw- You should still be able to speak to them tonight while they are in limbo.

Actually fairly important, Alien claims credit for the chat, but also claims they got redirected. (15)

*Snail noises*

Snail gives a nothing response to drunk's pressure (1

sIIIGH

Snail sighs, presumably in response to the multiple missed shots on Wasteland? (26)

-ITA FM-Wasteland

Im so sorry if you are town

Snail's first shot to wasteland, directly after wasteland shoots great speech. (27)

Fuck this is town

In response to Wasteland's ITA of great speech. Unclear if they were referring to Wasteland or Great Speech. (27)

Did I shoot wrong?

I believe this means the previous post was about Wasteland as well. Their shot had not been shown to miss yet (29)

-ITA FM-Wasteland


Aight please die

Snail successfully shoots wasteland (30)

My second ITA is weaker than the base one, but seeing all the wounds hopefully it just hits

Right before flip, snail explains second ITA hit chance (32)

IM SO WASHED

Post occurred at (33), right after wasteland flip

Spoiler : rambling :

ok i think the quoting things and explaining them is maybe getting to be a little much im realizing. mainly time wise. its been an hour and im not even done with page 5 (out of 10!) of snail's iso. I feel sick. i feel exhausted. i wanna sleep but I know if I do I can't get this out in a reasonable timeframe that gives people time to digest and question it.

I had an idea of how I wanted to have this post go down. I'd rather *not* just cover SOD -> ITA 1 but I think I may have to. At the very least, now that I have the important posts quoted I can look at them. IMO a reaction to a flip is fairly easy to fake, so i think looking at the treatment only before is ~fair. Plus, it addresses in my head the things I found scummy, which was how Snail went from not wanting to shoot wasteland, to not wanting to shoot, to shooting wasteland twice. I will now take a look at the posts, do acknowledge that while I'm trying to be unbiased I am coming at them, even I don't try to, with the mindset snail is scum. I'd like to ask people to look at their treatment of Incognito, bc that was also pretty bad, but I already feel kinda nauseous trying to pump this out and I don't wanna have this feeling continue for another 3 hours instead of like, the hour n half - hour that itll take me to write up my thoughts.

anyway, lets have a look at snail's SOD -> ITA 1 period, which this post will be covering. it was not the original plan but its the new one, as ive explained above. Letters are citations (you'll get it)


SUMMARY

We're mainly going to be focusing on Snail's treatment of Wasteland here. They do be doin some other things, but the thing that led to me originally scum reading them was their treatment of Wasteland.

Snail begins the day by expressing a scumread on Ryast and Purple forest, and defending Wasteland from the beginning sus people had on the fact they were a failed flashwagon against two town wagons. (a, b) Snail's wasteland read seems to be very strong, with them even veoting all votes against wasteland. (c)

Snail proceeds to use their next post to shade (*shading is not necessarily wolfy*) the people who started the flashwagon on Wasteland, Purple and Ryast. (D) They also express because of this, they would like both dead. I do remember at the time following their logic on the feeling of a lack of progression with Purple and Ryast, but I remember still being confused why this meant Wasteland had to be town. (D)

Snail then does being to express a bit of doubt in their own reads (E), (i stopped writing here lol)

worth noting this post is Unfinished and is basically just half a summary of what I saw happening. stopped bc nausea. its kinda gibberish and not really worth anything but i put like 2 hours of work into it so by god am I gonna post it (most of that work was spent reading lmao). the conclusion above is really where the actual like, point of all this work is

[FM-Fast Fish]

okay so overall, i really only looked at snail's SoD -> end of ITA 1, mainly bc my plan of looking at snail's entire d2 ISO regarding both wasteland + incongito had to be cut back bc of sick feelings + the fact snail has like 6 pages of content for d2 like holy

overall in that period however I'd say snail is, like a slight scumlean. i still do scumread them, at least I think I do, but not as much as the degree to which I *was* before I started reading them. i think id be ok with them dying today and tbh i can't think of many like, active non-null slots that come to head instead of them for a wagon so i'd like to keep my vote there for now

their progression on wasteland is confusing. they go from like, HARD defending wasteland to putting wasteland on their own shotlists. the progression is a lot faster than I would expect given the level of confidence they seem to have and their own reasons for reading wasteland town. this is the part I struggle with the most. I can understand having a bit of doubt in that read once you see Pink Slip's readlist but like, this is a 30 player game, what are the odds Pink Slip was killed bc they happened to scumread a lowposting scum that they (if memory serves correctly) didn't really push much. it's very strange to me and no matter how I try to picture it I can't follow that progression. they also focus a lot on wasteland in thes eopening posts but that's like pretty fair all thigns considered. their progression on Wasteland to me is very confusing, esp the fact it goes from a very confident townread to on their own shotlists in a seemingly non-conditional way (i.e if these people flip town you can shoot wasteland)

i can't follow the progression fully, and while there IS progression (which I like and is towny) its confusing and very jarring. This is why I scumlean them, looking purely at their SoD2 -> ITA 1. They got a lot of content outside of that and this is basically just me looking at one page of their 10 page ISO. I encourage others if they have time to take their own look at snail, outside of this time period, and others too. It may seem like I put in a good amount of work but tbh its not much in the grand scheme of Snail's posts. I put in a fair bit of time too but again, not much.

Jiraffe, I have one question.

[FM-Jiraffe]

okay so overall, i really only looked at snail's SoD -> end of ITA 1, mainly bc my plan of looking at snail's entire d2 ISO regarding both wasteland + incongito had to be cut back bc of sick feelings + the fact snail has like 6 pages of content for d2 like holy

overall in that period however I'd say snail is, like a slight scumlean. i still do scumread them, at least I think I do, but not as much as the degree to which I *was* before I started reading them. i think id be ok with them dying today and tbh i can't think of many like, active non-null slots that come to head instead of them for a wagon so i'd like to keep my vote there for now

their progression on wasteland is confusing. they go from like, HARD defending wasteland to putting wasteland on their own shotlists. the progression is a lot faster than I would expect given the level of confidence they seem to have and their own reasons for reading wasteland town. this is the part I struggle with the most. I can understand having a bit of doubt in that read once you see Pink Slip's readlist but like, this is a 30 player game, what are the odds Pink Slip was killed bc they happened to scumread a lowposting scum that they (if memory serves correctly) didn't really push much. it's very strange to me and no matter how I try to picture it I can't follow that progression. they also focus a lot on wasteland in thes eopening posts but that's like pretty fair all thigns considered. their progression on Wasteland to me is very confusing, esp the fact it goes from a very confident townread to on their own shotlists in a seemingly non-conditional way (i.e if these people flip town you can shoot wasteland)

i can't follow the progression fully, and while there IS progression (which I like and is towny) its confusing and very jarring. This is why I scumlean them, looking purely at their SoD2 -> ITA 1. They got a lot of content outside of that and this is basically just me looking at one page of their 10 page ISO. I encourage others if they have time to take their own look at snail, outside of this time period, and others too. It may seem like I put in a good amount of work but tbh its not much in the grand scheme of Snail's posts. I put in a fair bit of time too but again, not much.

its worth mentioning i also still never really got the reason why they townread wasteland in the first place but im assuming that im either misunderstanding something or the combined nightchat led to a townread somehow

[FM-Jiraffe]

Jiraffe, I have one question.

im about to go to bed you have like 2 minutes

[FM-Fast Fish]

im about to go to bed you have like 2 minutes

Not enough time to be politically correct.

What if Snail's reads just fucking suck?

[FM-My Plants]

Mornin~
What's new since ITA2?

[FM-Fast Fish]

Mornin~
What's new since ITA2?

Please toss your vote on Lolcat Ma'am. And uh, goodnight.

[FM-Jiraffe]

Not enough time to be politically correct.

What if Snail's reads just fucking suck?

reads sucking don't really account for progression imo. the progression is the part that worries me. im not attacking specifically their townread on wasteland which i mentioned. i am attacking their progression between the 2

(and also if we just go "what if their reads suck?" to everybody i feel like thats probably a bad way to play mafia!)

[FM-My Plants]

-vote -FM Lady of the lake

[FM-Jiraffe]

goodnight yall
no promises ill b around tomorrow, i cannot tell if ill feel better after some sleep and im leaning towards feeling worse