S-FM 362: ?KRC: Odyssey through the Ages

[FM-Raincoat Cat]

Ryast pop in at EoD was to direct votes at Wasteland.

So I can kinda vibe with one wolf in Wasteland/Ryast

If this is the case that makes sense. I agree with that conclusion

[FM-Snail Streamer]

All game I feel you've been very quick to criticize others but very slow to offer your own thoughts. The only thing I remember you doing is trying to steer votes onto Viking, who at this point is likely town.

I want to see your ITA list. I don't even think I want to follow it, but I want to see what yours is. Show me where you're at right now.

Then its clear you havent been paying attention to my posts wowee.

I did say Im more sus of Purple/Ryast . Im currently reassessing on Wasteland/Raincoat since I agree with Mom that Pink Slip had to have some reads right

[FM-Lady of the Lake]

You cant think of any reason on why wolves would've prefer you to be president Lady ?

Personally Im a little shocked that no one outside the chat voted Wine mom f.e.

Given that I'm not a wolf... no, not really. There would have to be other circumstances that would lead to them not voting one of their own.

Wine Mom received six votes. There were not six people in the chat.

[FM-Lady of the Lake]

Then its clear you havent been paying attention to my posts wowee.

I did say Im more sus of Purple/Ryast . Im currently reassessing on Wasteland/Raincoat since I agree with Mom that Pink Slip had to have some reads right

It's difficult to pay attention to all of your posts when you have almost 200 of them and they're roughly one or two sentences each.

So what would your ITA list be? Put it together.

[FM-Snail Streamer]

Breh. I told you Lady would be voted the most.

If there was a tacit agreement to vote Lady I think I missed it hardcore but I didnt have that threadfeel at all /shrug

[FM-Mountain Tops]

Let me know what you think about the lack of them making the same arguments on other trains.

Also, may want to iso Gay Cat Rock.
Its 91 posts but very little in them. When I picked up on it I was kinda shocked to see how little they said with that many posts.

After looking through - I don't think the lack of a similar argument on another train matters
Since the people they were pushing near eod (white square and dew horse) didn't have big trains like that

[FM-Lady of the Lake]

I claimed to die if Happy Drunk is mafia, not town.

CRAZY TMI SLIP THIS GUY KNOWS THERE IS MAFIA!!!!!

(this is a joke)

[FM-Lady of the Lake]

If this is the case that makes sense. I agree with that conclusion

You as well. You're coasting. If you could pick three people to kill right now, who would they be? Give me a list.

[FM-Aliens Are Real]

Kindly, no. Its not optimal to play that way. Stop proposing things that will hurt town consolidation

The issue with consolidating power is the hands you put it in. We do not know if Lady or Wine Mom is Town. We may read them as such but handing them all the ITA's in the game is just a bad idea imo. The only thing consolidating all the shots at once does is give us flips right now instead of after more ITA cycles but it does so at the risk of letting scum guide the shots.

Personally Im a little shocked that no one outside the chat voted Wine mom f.e.

I considered you but I do not think you were highly followed, same thing with Purple (although now they seem to be more questioned)
Mountian Top is very highly town read but I did not see them as assertive. I was surprised to see they only got one vote though. Did not think many players would consider that.
Between Lady and Wine Mom Lady was a town read for me and Wine Mom was more of a town lean. I love how Wine mom is pushing in their own direction that often feels like a mindmeld with me though.

[FM-Snail Streamer]

It's difficult to pay attention to all of your posts when you have almost 200 of them and they're roughly one or two sentences each.

So what would your ITA list be? Put it together.

If its short sentences then that means they should be easier to read!!! My plan rn is mull over shooting Purple or not, leaning on yes. But uts something I want to check

And Im not doing work for you , the ITA list should have 2 or 3 names at max regardless. We are not in a mash
Ryast/Purple/Wasteland is what I would do but Im not committing to do it because there are other slots I would also want to check if I was actually proposing a list here!

[FM-Snail Streamer]

People voted you for president, lead dont hide!!!!!

[FM-Mountain Tops]

The issue with consolidating power is the hands you put it in. We do not know if Lady or Wine Mom is Town. We may read them as such but handing them all the ITA's in the game is just a bad idea imo. The only thing consolidating all the shots at once does is give us flips right now instead of after more ITA cycles but it does so at the risk of letting scum guide the shots.



I considered you but I do not think you were highly followed, same thing with Purple (although now they seem to be more questioned)
Mountian Top is very highly town read but I did not see them as assertive. I was surprised to see they only got one vote though. Did not think many players would consider that.
Between Lady and Wine Mom Lady was a town read for me and Wine Mom was more of a town lean. I love how Wine mom is pushing in their own direction that often feels like a mindmeld with me though.

It is standard ITA practice to have shotlists, and hold people accountable if they shoot outside of them (unless they flip a wolf).

ITAs are typically balanced as if they were 100% town killpower, because the expectation is that town can control them. Letting everyone shoot who they want is bad.

[FM-Snail Streamer]

Consolidating shots give us more PoEs slots getting shot at always. Less hero shots on most consensus town slots aswell.

If the person leading us results to be mafia, it makes it easier to catch them just looking at who they propose to be shot.

Like, other people already told you that it worked pretty well past KRC, and its always made in mashes as well because its just works better. ITAs always tend to go like shit when people hero shoot.

We are not that many, we can consolidate

[FM-Raincoat Cat]

You as well. You're coasting. If you could pick three people to kill right now, who would they be? Give me a list.

Coasting on what? I feel like I've made substantial contributions where I could whenever I was around.

To take from what I said during our night chat and adjust for what's happened today, if ITAs were solely up to me I'd pick something like:
Zoomer Power
Incognito
Angry Clown
Snippy
Ryast
Wasteland

[FM-Snail Streamer]

Raincoat Cat what did you like about Gay Cat's Fock EoD? I only remember dislinking their vote on White Square at EoD pretty much

[FM-Aliens Are Real]

Okay then I'm going to ITA Mountain Tops on the dot. Goodluck on your shooting.

Could you flatly explain your reads? I do not believe you have ever given any sort of listed reads this game and I am very confused on where you stand.

[FM-Fast Fish]

If there was a tacit agreement to vote Lady I think I missed it hardcore but I didnt have that threadfeel at all /shrug

There wasn't an agreement, it's just reading the friggen room. Why would I or any town throw their townread of Lady out the window for that wagon? You could even argue that Wine Mom looked scummier there because she actually picked up the wagon 450 posts after Lady and Harry had placed votes.

That same sequence opened the door to multiple players either you or I think are scummy to sheep two prominent townreads as we hurdle off a cliff. For the record, no I don't think Wine is scum.

[FM-Snail Streamer]

I think that Sandwich, Incognito and Zoomer Selfvoting (or at least I assume so) is more likely to come from town tbh

[FM-Aliens Are Real]

It is standard ITA practice to have shotlists, and hold people accountable if they shoot outside of them (unless they flip a wolf).

ITAs are typically balanced as if they were 100% town killpower, because the expectation is that town can control them. Letting everyone shoot who they want is bad.

I am aware of that.
I am explaining a different way of consolidating shots based upon reads instead of designating one person to run them. If we had a 100% confirmed town sure. Lets run that shit all day. But we do not and although I town read Lady I dislike the practice of handing 1 player so much power.

[FM-Lady of the Lake]

I think that Sandwich, Incognito and Zoomer Selfvoting (or at least I assume so) is more likely to come from town tbh

I don't know what the hell to think about that. It feels like a copout. Like an excuse to not have engaged in the thread. Incognito strikes me as someone who was too aware of the gamestate to have voted for himself, I'm interested in hearing if he did selfvote. Sandwich and Zoomer though, those have to have been self votes I think. There's no reason for those votes to have been placed there and I would be thoroughly unsurprised if one or both of them are wolves.

[FM-Aliens Are Real]

Like,

If I make a list and compare my list to other people I town read and say 'Hey, we all agree here, you guys all down for this shot' then there is no one person dictating the shots and no hero shot. Its just a better way of distributing the power that avoids it falling into the wrong hands.

And again- I do push the backup of "Anyone not sure, just shoot Green Nya"

[FM-Raincoat Cat]

Raincoat Cat what did you like about Gay Cat's Fock EoD? I only remember dislinking their vote on White Square at EoD pretty much

The way they were looking at (and talking about) the wagons and the voters near EoD showed an approach that I felt was villagery.

especially with the knowledge that both dew horse and bosun are town I don't really see a wolf playing that EoD like GCR did. GCR questioned the Bosun wagon and its flimsiness the entire time, didn't like the Dew wagon (but expressed willingness to vote there to save Bosun, who they townread), but then found themselves thinking Dew was also town and tried to go after white square/ryast. I can only kinda see it if W!GCR was trying to play white knight for towncred and also trying to discredit Ryast who was pushing their wolfmate Wasteland, but doesn't seem likely to me.

some quotes
[SPOILER]

It seems that you seemed a bit angry in the first bit but then the second bit seemed more emotionless. I guess I expected it to be like a big case somehow and then it just wasn't so your argument from earlier even if it did hold, seems a bit unaligned, perhaps something you need to be there to see.

Also you and Harry are both good at implying you scum read Bosun while both having Bosun as gth town.

Do people actually think Bosun is evil or are they voting because they don’t know who to vote? When I was last here, it seemed ryast was the only person that actually thought so and they weren’t even voting Bosun.

Has ryast just not voted or where is their vote?

If you think that the plants have fur, why are you not voting them?

I just read that but I guess I find the reasons people are voting him still feel weak. I don’t really think bosun will flip wolf here. It feels like they’ve ended up with a bunch of votes when they only deserve maybe a third of them.

The votes switching so fast feels concerning and I’m worried they will only stay if wrong.

Because it is a very flimsy wagon that people decide to join with the drop of a hat.

I think lovely bug is a nice bug. They do not seem like an evil bug at all right now.

I guess the case doesn’t seem as strong to meow as everyone is making it to seem.

I think bosun is town here so if I vote horse, it will probably be a shrug vote to help out bosun.

I feel that the fish pairing meowks meow think horse is meowr likely town because I think fish is a real tuna and meow tuna.

I think that Harry is likely good, especially if lady is good, because I liked how they had similar opinions and talked stuff out when they were together.

Wouldn’t the interactions of others onto horse be meowr important here, especially if horse didn’t talk that meowch?

I think it is possible that neither of the wagons are a hit so I’m proposing a white square. I am also now thinking that ryast meow be an evil puppet and the extra account.

I would also be up for voting ryast but I don’t think that we would be able to find the owner if we vote him now.

I don’t know who I’d pick anymore if I had to pick who to vote between horse and bosun.

This feels opportunistic and I don’t like this slot.

How did horse become the main wagon with the bosun wagon dissolving instead?

[/SPOILER]

[FM-Mountain Tops]

I am aware of that.
I am explaining a different way of consolidating shots based upon reads instead of designating one person to run them. If we had a 100% confirmed town sure. Lets run that shit all day. But we do not and although I town read Lady I dislike the practice of handing 1 player so much power.

In that case fair enough; I do agree that having a group of townread people decide it is probably better than a single person. I'd definitely put Wasteland/Green Nya on ITA1's list FWIW. Will be back soon

[FM-Raincoat Cat]

I'm sorry for the giant wall and all of your eyes.

[FM-Fast Fish]

Could you flatly explain your reads? I do not believe you have ever given any sort of listed reads this game and I am very confused on where you stand.

Flatly? Mountain Tops(White Square), Incognito and Zoomer are scum. All cats except Gay Party Cat can perish as well.

[FM-Snail Streamer]

I don't know what the hell to think about that. It feels like a copout. Like an excuse to not have engaged in the thread. Incognito strikes me as someone who was too aware of the gamestate to have voted for himself, I'm interested in hearing if he did selfvote. Sandwich and Zoomer though, those have to have been self votes I think. There's no reason for those votes to have been placed there and I would be thoroughly unsurprised if one or both of them are wolves.

Wolves still are more likely to eithwr vote a wrong town or another wolf imo rather than doing a vanity selfvote that leads nowhere

[FM-Lady of the Lake]

Flatly? Mountain Tops(White Square), Incognito and Zoomer are scum. All cats except Gay Party Cat can perish as well.

Elaborate on Mountain Tops for me please.

[FM-Raincoat Cat]

I think that Sandwich, Incognito and Zoomer Selfvoting (or at least I assume so) is more likely to come from town tbh

Feel like it is more likely to be NAI after D1 where it became very clear that votes are being tracked and that justification might be necessary, with inconsistencies and missing votes subject to scrutiny.

[FM-Raincoat Cat]

Like, I agree that a townie would self vote if they are unsure. But if you're a wolf that doesn't want the heat you would also self vote here, no? I think that would be less inviting for negative attention than any other vote you'd have to explain.

[FM-Lady of the Lake]

Wolves still are more likely to eithwr vote a wrong town or another wolf imo rather than doing a vanity selfvote that leads nowhere

It plays into both of my potential worldviews where myself and wine mom are town though. Either they didn't have someone that could feasibly win or they had too many wolves tied up with Wine Mom to contest the election.

Though I might be clouded by my bias of disliking Sandwich and Zoomer from my interactions with them D1.

[FM-Lady of the Lake]

I think my final conclusion is that if Wine Mom flips wolf then Sandwich and Zoomer are town for self voting.

[FM-Aliens Are Real]

The way they were looking at (and talking about) the wagons and the voters near EoD showed an approach that I felt was villagery.

especially with the knowledge that both dew horse and bosun are town I don't really see a wolf playing that EoD like GCR did. GCR questioned the Bosun wagon and its flimsiness the entire time, didn't like the Dew wagon (but expressed willingness to vote there to save Bosun, who they townread), but then found themselves thinking Dew was also town and tried to go after white square/ryast. I can only kinda see it if W!GCR was trying to play white knight for towncred and also trying to discredit Ryast who was pushing their wolfmate Wasteland, but doesn't seem likely to me.

some quotes
[SPOILER]



































[/SPOILER]

I feel like you need to consider, thats in 91 posts. A bunch of those are also empty stances. Like "I feel that the fish pairing meowks meow think horse is meowr likely town because I think fish is a real tuna and meow tuna." or "I think lovely bug is a nice bug. They do not seem like an evil bug at all right now."

My issue is that I am not seeing any real solving. No real pushing to understand and read a player or to build a case. Its just going through the motions and in between a massive amount of RP posting that has no value. When your cherry picking the best posts out of 90 and this is what you come up with you gotta scratch your head a bit.

[FM-Snail Streamer]

It plays into both of my potential worldviews where myself and wine mom are town though. Either they didn't have someone that could feasibly win or they had too many wolves tied up with Wine Mom to contest the election.

Though I might be clouded by my bias of disliking Sandwich and Zoomer from my interactions with them D1.

Maybe I have a different perspective. But if the wolves didnt have something they could feasibly win, wouldnt they try to vote a consensus town that seems less of a threat to them? Leaving it fully in the hands of town is risky .

Regardless Im more interested in why so many non voters ngl. I could understand it in n0 if they had no action. But having to submit an action and forgetting to vote weirds me a bit

[FM-Raincoat Cat]

I feel like you need to consider, thats in 91 posts. A bunch of those are also empty stances. Like "I feel that the fish pairing meowks meow think horse is meowr likely town because I think fish is a real tuna and meow tuna." or "I think lovely bug is a nice bug. They do not seem like an evil bug at all right now."

My issue is that I am not seeing any real solving. No real pushing to understand and read a player or to build a case. Its just going through the motions and in between a massive amount of RP posting that has no value. When your cherry picking the best posts out of 90 and this is what you come up with you gotta scratch your head a bit.

I don't really care about postcount that much, especially when most of it wasn't that timeframe. I think it's also easy to see the RP clouding the posts and (understandably) dislike or handwave them away. GCR TRing Fish and Horse (denying potential wagon for themselves as wolf) and still providing even surface level reads on others contributing throughout EOD looks good to me. Yes, there was no large case building at EOD with tons of posts and words to go after white square but I don't think that every person in this game will be able to produce that kind of effort regardless of alignment.

Maybe you're right but I think the direction they took even as a player with relatively low impact looks good.

[FM-Snail Streamer]

I can kinda see what you mean about GCR , but could also see maybe being TMI slipping into their stances, and not rocking much the gamestate regardless. But it is not that bad of a look as I had thought

[FM-Snail Streamer]

Lady what is your read on Purple Forest?

[FM-Ryast]

Apparently ITA 1 was delayed by 1 hour. Its at the bottom of the day start post and I felt people could have missed that (I almost did tbh). Anyways, ignoring the night kills for the moment (and whatever shenanigans that led us to having 6 votes on two players for president...gosh this SoD is a can of worms and generalized confusion):

I've not had that much time to yet look at the EoD from all directions, but one of the issues that I looked into is Gay Cat Rock's callout of my suggestion as opportunistic. From their ISO I don't see any sensible progression on me and also they kinda just...don't do much for the amount of posts they have. I mean, I had like 10 posts less than them and yet I felt I accomplished a lot more. Besides that, I joined the thread when the VC and the VC 12 hours ago were significantly different -- as I was implying that I was going to study the VC -- only to find out that a massive CFD happened just as a joined. For him to call me opportunistic feels like they didn't really read into me and was a bad faith callout.

Add in the flip of Bosun now and it just feels that they were either being opportunistic themselves or were trying to protect wastelander. Probably the former.

[FM-Raincoat Cat]

I can kinda see what you mean about GCR , but could also see maybe being TMI slipping into their stances, and not rocking much the gamestate regardless. But it is not that bad of a look as I had thought

That's another valid W!GCR angle, GCR being the type of player who doesn't play around TMI well as wolf. Still think it's a good look for them though.

[FM-Ryast]

-vote Gay Cat Rock

Also I plan to ITA Wastelander in the upcoming ITA window, their iso is bad and their flip would be very informative here in the context of EoD1 I think. Is there any reason from the seeming shenanigans of night 1 as to why I should not do that?

[FM-Ryast]

-vote FM-Gay Cat Rock

Fixed.

[FM-Fast Fish]

Elaborate on Mountain Tops for me please.

Initial pushing/question on me and Dew felt wolfy because it's how I used to play wolf and it lead me to reading more into how they were playing. More importantly, their interactions with Incognito about White Square (themselves) felt S/S. Keep in mind Incog wrote a massive friggen wall of random crap and the only excerpt from it that Mountain Tops felt important was the one about White Square.

Wine Mom said she felt Mountain Tops softed White Square to her and she was correct but the soft was her being told "don't worry about white square" essentially. That's a big difference from Mountain's interactions with Incognito which seems more a desire to make two (and a half) wolves seem like they're interacting naturally. Point of previous statement being, if Mountain claims they took out that excerpt to "soft" to Incognito, they're full of shit. And why would Mountain want to soft to Incognito there anyway? Even if they were W/T it was entirely unprompted and out of place and Incognito was in the dog house anyway. It'd be smarter for a wolf to soft a role like that to a more consensus town players like Wine to get off the radar a bit.

[FM-Lady of the Lake]

Lady what is your read on Purple Forest?

I've liked Purple Forest since pretty much halfway through day one. The way they speak is easy for me to read and its easy for me to tell what they're saying or trying to say. They feel like the opposite of someone like Incognito who is clearly here but difficult to analyze. I think they're more than likely town and I think that they should never be in ITA1. I have high expectations for them today but if they don't meet them I will revisit them at that time.

[FM-Lady of the Lake]

Initial pushing/question on me and Dew felt wolfy because it's how I used to play wolf and it lead me to reading more into how they were playing. More importantly, their interactions with Incognito about White Square (themselves) felt S/S. Keep in mind Incog wrote a massive friggen wall of random crap and the only excerpt from it that Mountain Tops felt important was the one about White Square.

Wine Mom said she felt Mountain Tops softed White Square to her and she was correct but the soft was her being told "don't worry about white square" essentially. That's a big difference from Mountain's interactions with Incognito which seems more a desire to make two (and a half) wolves seem like they're interacting naturally. Point of previous statement being, if Mountain claims they took out that excerpt to "soft" to Incognito, they're full of shit. And why would Mountain want to soft to Incognito there anyway? Even if they were W/T it was entirely unprompted and out of place and Incognito was in the dog house anyway. It'd be smarter for a wolf to soft a role like that to a more consensus town players like Wine to get off the radar a bit.

Acknowledged. Thank you.

[FM-Dirty Harry]

I think that Sandwich, Incognito and Zoomer Selfvoting (or at least I assume so) is more likely to come from town tbh

Oh yea, Incog, honestly every single time I've seen them they've misconstructed arguments or lazily goes "Oh no different font, me no read, they must be scum"

[FM-Aliens Are Real]

I don't really care about postcount that much, especially when most of it wasn't that timeframe. I think it's also easy to see the RP clouding the posts and (understandably) dislike or handwave them away. GCR TRing Fish and Horse (denying potential wagon for themselves as wolf) and still providing even surface level reads on others contributing throughout EOD looks good to me. Yes, there was no large case building at EOD with tons of posts and words to go after white square but I don't think that every person in this game will be able to produce that kind of effort regardless of alignment.

Maybe you're right but I think the direction they took even as a player with relatively low impact looks good.

For me its not quite about post count. They had the time to hang out in the thread and post that much. But I had like 30 posts and easily 30x the content.
Its that they were seemingly hanging out. Then the contributions they made were nothing special. "This looks kinda good, That looks kinda bad, This guy looks townie"

I didn't see anything that was not surface level. No real 'solving' just a series of independent observations and stances in between a mountain of empty banter.

To be fair- it is day 1. Scum hunting D1 can be hard for many without mechanical information. But that just felt like a bit much to me. Cut out all the fluff and there is still not much there.

[FM-Snail Streamer]

This post is odd, I think I can see this from a town but it seems to feel mildly unintuitive for most villagers to think this. Its hard because you need to both couple with a sense of being uninformed of whether or not the mafia knew the effect of the election or not and whether you think that mafia would... presumably out to vote coordinate? Which I think someone else commented on earlier and I might have quoted, unsure! But keeping that in mind, I'd still probably posit that any train of presidential votes is unlikely to have many mafia on them? As such I do also kind of think its stupid to attack Viking for getting votes as well, I think there's too many factors that make this an unreliable took to find scum; and Viking is honestly kind of a billboard account (name/icon) to gain votes inherently.

I still think that the bolded is such a wild take that could see it coming from a mind of someone that knew that there was no scum implication on how Viking got three votes, but yet it was somehow town's doing. And I'll prbably die on this hill

[FM-Fast Fish]

Also, I find it unlikely Raincat Coat is scum. I don't see any indication that chat from snails or wine or myself leaked into wolfchat and if you're wondering bosun didn't really do anything in it.

[FM-Fast Fish]

"raincat coat"

my brain is fried already

[FM-Mountain Tops]

Initial pushing/question on me and Dew felt wolfy because it's how I used to play wolf and it lead me to reading more into how they were playing. More importantly, their interactions with Incognito about White Square (themselves) felt S/S. Keep in mind Incog wrote a massive friggen wall of random crap and the only excerpt from it that Mountain Tops felt important was the one about White Square.

Wine Mom said she felt Mountain Tops softed White Square to her and she was correct but the soft was her being told "don't worry about white square" essentially. That's a big difference from Mountain's interactions with Incognito which seems more a desire to make two (and a half) wolves seem like they're interacting naturally. Point of previous statement being, if Mountain claims they took out that excerpt to "soft" to Incognito, they're full of shit. And why would Mountain want to soft to Incognito there anyway? Even if they were W/T it was entirely unprompted and out of place and Incognito was in the dog house anyway. It'd be smarter for a wolf to soft a role like that to a more consensus town players like Wine to get off the radar a bit.

I wanted to probe Incognito's mind, and naturally, I know all the context surrounding White Square, because it's me. So of course I would ask them about that. Unfortunately, Incognito's response was similarly hard to glean anything out of (and I note in my reads list that I have this issue with their posts).

I was not trying to soft to Incognito - as you note, why would I do that? The only reason I was softing to Wine Mom is to avoid a potential wagon on White Square near EOD.

[FM-Ryast]

The way they were looking at (and talking about) the wagons and the voters near EoD showed an approach that I felt was villagery.

especially with the knowledge that both dew horse and bosun are town I don't really see a wolf playing that EoD like GCR did. GCR questioned the Bosun wagon and its flimsiness the entire time, didn't like the Dew wagon (but expressed willingness to vote there to save Bosun, who they townread), but then found themselves thinking Dew was also town and tried to go after white square/ryast. I can only kinda see it if W!GCR was trying to play white knight for towncred and also trying to discredit Ryast who was pushing their wolfmate Wasteland, but doesn't seem likely to me.

some quotes

The problem I have with this line of thinking is that I'm not sure we can argue what a wolf would or wouldn't do given the circumstances of the CFD -- which seemed largely town initiated. Plus from a "what a town would do" perspective I don't think they look any good and at times awkward even.