Jungle Rebellion

[Zedus]

Jungle Rebellion.
For mods: I am not the native English speaker. Feel free to edit my bad language please.

Rumor has it that the King of Jungle is weakened, and some jungle dwellers are already plotting to overthrow him. Only the insidious Hyena leading the conspiracy has not been seen for a long time. Will the loyal animals manage to keep their usual ways or will they face a bloody revolution?

Example role list for 13 ppl:
Lion, the King of Jungle
Loyal animal, power
Loyal animal, power
Loyal animal
Loyal animal
Loyal animal
Loyal animal
Loyal animal
Loyal animal
Hyena, the Leader of Rebels
Rebel animal, power
Rebel animal
Neutral animal

Basic rules

The game, as well as the usual mafia, is divided into two phases:
1. Day phase. The phase of communication and voting.
2. Night. The phase of attacks and other actions.

This setup using a system of wounds that can be inflicted as a result of a failed attack or other action. Receiving second wound immediately kills the wounded animal.

The main feature of the setup is that there is no "ordinary citizen" role. Each player (whether loyal to the king or a rebel) plays the role of an animal, which can be predatory or herbivorous, and big or small. For example:

• Tiger. Predatory. Big.
• Elephant. Herbivorous. Big.
• Ferret. Predatory. Small.
• Hare. Herbivore. Small.

The game always features a Lion (predatory, big) leading the loyal animals (green faction) and a Hyena (predatory, small) leading the Rebellion(red faction).

Each of these traits grants the animal the following abilities:

• Predatory. Smells blood. As an action, can check to see if a chosen player is wounded.
• Herbivorous. Accustomed to surviving in dangerous conditions. If a herbivore survives one night with a wound received before this nigth, the wound is healed at the beginning of the next day.
• Big. Too large a target for small ones. If attacked by a small animal, takes one wound rather than death.
• Small. Too fast a target for large ones. If attacked by a large animal, takes one wound rather than death.

Example:
n1. A tiger attacks a hare, but the small hare evades death and gets wounded.
n2. The hare is not attacked and the wound is healed.

Green Faction Animal Abilities:
The Lion has all the properties of a predator and a big, and has an additional ability: It can reveal itself at any time (the host's message confirms this), but after this action it cannot be the target of any actions other than attacks. This ability applies automatically if the Lion is hammered during the day: in this case it is not the Lion who is executed, but the one he voted for, even if that vote is the only one.

Also, some animals of the green faction become power roles and randomly gain one of the following abilities:

1. Healing (like vanilla Doctor). Herbivores only. Visits one animal at night. If it is attacked, the attack is prevented. If it is not attacked but has a wound, the wound will be healed. If it is not attacked and has no wound, nothing happens. The target of the ability will be notified if it is healed or protected. The healer himself receives no feedback.

2. Territory Guard (like vanilla Veteran). Predator Only. Automatically attacks all of its visitors at night. This ability does not cancel the visitors' action. Can only be used twice per game.

3. Legal attack (like vanilla Vigilante). Predator Only. Attack one target at night. Can only be used twice per game.

4. Discreet surveillance (like vanilla Investigator). Little only. Visits one animal at night and gets an answer to one of the questions of his choice:
a) Is the target predatory or herbivorous?
b) Is the target big or small?

5. Block (like vanilla Escort). Big only. Visits one animal and blocks the exit from its dwelling, blocking all of its night actions. The target of the ability will be notified even if no action was taken.

6. Observation (Detective/Lookout). Any animal. Visits one animal and ascertains the answer to one of the questions of the player's choice:
a) Whom did it visited this night? (Detective).
b) Who visited it this night? (Lookout).

In total, the green faction gains as many power roles, as the number of accomplices the Hyena has. For example, in 13 ppl setup we have 2 Hyena's accomplices, so town gets two power roles.

Red faction abilities:
Red faction share the day and night chat, as usual mafia faction.

There is always at least one carnivore, herbivore, small animal, and big animal among the Rebellion. Thus, there are at least two rebels(e.g., Hyena and Elephant). The exact number of rebels depends on the total number of players, for 13 ppl setup we have 3.

The Red faction may send one of the rebels (including the Hyena itself) to attack any of the animals. This action is a normal attack and is handled according to the standard rules (i.e., may kill, wound, or be prevented).

Once per game, a Hyena may use the "hyena pack" ability at the Hyena's discretion. The chosen animal will be attacked by the pack and torn apart. This ability cannot be blocked or prevented, and no member of the red faction is considered a visitor when this ability is applied. The host's death message will describe an attack by a pack of hyenas, meaning all players will be notified that this ability has been used. If Hyena is killed, the pack will come to avenge it, and this ability will be applied automatically the next night, the rebels must name its target.

Before the game begins, one randomly selected member of the red faction, excluding the hyena, may choose one of the available abilities from the list appropriate for his animal and use it to benefit the Rebellion.

Neutral Animal
Neutral animal does not belong for green or red faction. It's only goal is survive to the end.
Neutral animal owns one random power from ability list, appropriate for that animal.

Faction Goals

The goal of the loyalists is to kill all rebels.

The goal of the Rebellion is to gain numerical superiority in the jungle and kill the King.

The goal of the Neutral Animal is survive to the end.

[Zedus]

Work in progress, but feel free to comment please.

[MartinGG99]

Acknowledged. I might not be able to take a look this weekend, but you can likely expect a review of you WIP setup by me before the weekend after that.

Sidenote: Welcome back! Hope you're doing well.

[Zedus]

Acknowledged. I might not be able to take a look this weekend, but you can likely expect a review of you WIP setup by me before the weekend after that.

Sidenote: Welcome back! Hope you're doing well.

@MartinGG99 thank you, no rush in it, it's just a concept, I will wait for review as long as it needed!

I can say "I am okey" for now. No future, but... Well, maybe I will make one.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

A few preliminary remarks:

- Giving animal names to everyone might turn the game into a big "named townie" mess where everyone claims the name of their animal and scum get boxed in. This is especially true if scum necessarily have at least one member with each characteristic (predator/herbivore/small/big).

- Why is there a survivor? Is there a design idea behind it? It seems it's very likely to be a kingmaker without much more to it.

Also, considering you said Lion auto-reveals if hammered, does that mean you intend to use majority only (i.e. no lynch if noone reaches 50 % + 1)? Plurality + majority is often preferred.

How exactly do kills work? Do scums have a factional kill, or are predators meant to be the ones attacking (in which case the game is gun madness lol)? Assuming scum have a factional kill, is the "hyena pack" ability multitaskable with it?

[Zedus]

Hello, @Marshmallow Marshall , and thank you for feedback. Let me answer for every point.

1. Named townie is not an issue. There can be, for example, 5 random-generated small predators, and only one of them is Hyena, others are townies. Claiming being small is becoming and easier target for small scum's attack.

Survivor is weak point, I agree. I will rework neutral role somehow to make it more interesting to play. But I think one neut is always be good.

"hammered" is probalby a bad term. I mean "votod to be lynched" in any form (majority etc.). Sorry for my bad english.

Kills mechanics:
There is "attack" term. Scum has one factional attack each night. They can sent any animal to perform it, not only predators.

Also some power roles has attack abilities, as described before. For example, there can be town tiger with "territory guard" ability, who can attack his every visitor. Non-power town roles cannot attack, predators can only smell blood.

Attack applied from attacking animal for his target. Attacked target by default is killed, but size rule applied:
Big animal attack big animal, result is death.
Small animal attack small animal, result is death.
Small animal attack big animal, result is wound.
Big animal attack small animal, result is wound.

Also, attack can be prevented (doctor action) etc.

So, size matters. If scums want to kill leon, they need to send big animal, if they want to kill hare, they need small.

If hyena attacks "territory guard" tiger, both wounded.
If elephant attacks "territory guard" tiger, both dead.
If elephant heals "territory guard" tiger during his attacked by hyena: hyena wounded, tiger is not (healed), elephant is dead (attacked by tiger).

Hope this examples are enougth to describe the rules.

"Hyena pack" is unique 1-shot ability. It's multistackable, requires no visitor and always kills it's target. Hyena pack also always announced at SOD by host after it kills, so town is always informed that it's used.

[Zedus]

Also, revealing your animal helps scums not only to kill you, but also to hunt TPR's. Knowing you are herbivore means that you are defininely not a vigi/vet, but maybe doc.

[MartinGG99]

Sorry for the delay in getting to this.

• Predatory. Smells blood. As an action, can check to see if a chosen player is wounded.
• Herbivorous. Accustomed to surviving in dangerous conditions. If a herbivore survives one night with a wound received before this nigth, the wound is healed at the beginning of the next day.
• Big. Too large a target for small ones. If attacked by a small animal, takes one wound rather than death.
• Small. Too fast a target for large ones. If attacked by a large animal, takes one wound rather than death.

I can see an argument for this mechanic if the rebels (which I will refer to as "wolves") have extra killpower, but they are not guaranteed to have a vigilante power role. If they do not have extra killpower (beyond hyena and regular night attack) then its plausible their night actions will be completely unsuccessful due to this + the fact that towns would rarely have a reason to out that they are small/big. With that in mind, I can imagine a preety frustrating game for the wolves. The Hyena ability could help, but its more-so the fact that wolf actions could effectively fail for no reason other than a player being a certain animal type. Sure, they might be wounded, but that just means they now have to spend 2 kp or more just to kill a civilian or power role.

It's not like in a vanilla game where there is the town, mafia, and a doctor. In that case there is a level of skill to it. If the night kill gets blocked, then the doctor played well and the mafia got outplayed. In this game where there's just animals small or large, you might lose the night kill just to bad luck rather than skill (because again, there is no reason for town to share what animal they are).

Unfortunately with a game of this size I don't really see a way of making this interesting while reliably working/fun at the same time. If this were a mash then it could be implemented in, for example, ITAs. Outside of KRC we basically do not have any mashes on this site, which means any removal or addition of kill-power can be very impactful. Therefore it just adds a whole lot of swing ("swing" meaning a game that looks like a wolf win could easily go to wolf loss or the opposite) to the game and most of it is town-sided and likely to upset the wolves.

IF you really want to keep it in, here are some ideas I think off the top of my head:
1. Either give the mafia 2 standard night attacks or one single night attack that ignores the wound mechanic.
2. Make wounds act like a poison. Instead of dying instantly, they die after day ends or something like that.
3. ???? something else idk, if you go with any of these I will probably be checking them again and thinking them through

In any case, however, I strongly suggest making the herbivore ability do something different, and maaayyyybbbeeee the predator one too. The herbivore ability is effectively a self-doc and might as well be considered a power role. It could be unbalanced with very limited wolf counter-play, plain and simple. The predator ability could be okay but if most of the town ends up being predators then that likely would make WIFOM too risky -- if a wolf fake-claims seeing a wound on player B but Predator #4 checked Player B at the same time then you have a Thunderdome at a minimum. Which is generally bad for the wolves.

Green Faction Animal Abilities:
The Lion has all the properties of a predator and a big, and has an additional ability: It can reveal itself at any time (the host's message confirms this), but after this action it cannot be the target of any actions other than attacks. This ability applies automatically if the Lion is hammered during the day: in this case it is not the Lion who is executed, but the one he voted for, even if that vote is the only one.

Also, some animals of the green faction become power roles and randomly gain one of the following abilities:

1. Healing (like vanilla Doctor). Herbivores only. Visits one animal at night. If it is attacked, the attack is prevented. If it is not attacked but has a wound, the wound will be healed. If it is not attacked and has no wound, nothing happens. The target of the ability will be notified if it is healed or protected. The healer himself receives no feedback.

2. Territory Guard (like vanilla Veteran). Predator Only. Automatically attacks all of its visitors at night. This ability does not cancel the visitors' action. Can only be used twice per game.

[snip]

5. Block (like vanilla Escort). Big only. Visits one animal and blocks the exit from its dwelling, blocking all of its night actions. The target of the ability will be notified even if no action was taken.

Lion ability is basically a vengeful (i.e. jester from arcade) but you don't actually die in using it. It could work, but in the context of the whole setup its not good for balance currently. It could be fine after changes to other parts of the setup though. We will see.

Doctor is made a lot more powerful with the wound mechanic, and makes the whole idea of small/big even more town-sided if a doctor exists. Also informing a target if they were attacked or healed, while quite accurate in the real world, generally makes for terrible balance in the FM world because it gives town A LOT of valuable & powerful information. Very limited wolf counter-play with the feedback, even more so with the wound mechanic.

Vanilla veteran is not something that exists in FM for two good reasons. One, roles entirely dependent on being visited (i.e. other people's choices) are very hard to balance -- it doesn't matter what effect they have. Two, you don't make killpower vary that wildly. I would just completely remove it. I do have a few ideas on how a veteran-like role could be balanced and not swingy, but it means making a very complex role and I don't think that's called for in a setup that seems inspired by vanilla roles from the arcade.

Escort giving information is bad for the same reasons as doc giving information.

In total, the green faction gains as many power roles, as the number of accomplices the Hyena has. For example, in 13 ppl setup we have 2 Hyena's accomplices, so town gets two power roles.

Red faction abilities:
Red faction share the day and night chat, as usual mafia faction.

There is always at least one carnivore, herbivore, small animal, and big animal among the Rebellion. Thus, there are at least two rebels(e.g., Hyena and Elephant). The exact number of rebels depends on the total number of players, for 13 ppl setup we have 3.

The Red faction may send one of the rebels (including the Hyena itself) to attack any of the animals. This action is a normal attack and is handled according to the standard rules (i.e., may kill, wound, or be prevented).

Once per game, a Hyena may use the "hyena pack" ability at the Hyena's discretion. The chosen animal will be attacked by the pack and torn apart. This ability cannot be blocked or prevented, and no member of the red faction is considered a visitor when this ability is applied. The host's death message will describe an attack by a pack of hyenas, meaning all players will be notified that this ability has been used. If Hyena is killed, the pack will come to avenge it, and this ability will be applied automatically the next night, the rebels must name its target.

Before the game begins, one randomly selected member of the red faction, excluding the hyena, may choose one of the available abilities from the list appropriate for his animal and use it to benefit the Rebellion.

In general, town should have the same amount of power-roles as the wolves. Although if you're keeping the wound mechanic, it might be wise to reduce the town power roles by at least 1 (i.e. if wolves have three power roles, town should have 2) to account for the town-siding nature of the big/small wound mechanic. Especially if it remains largely unchanged.





This is just a few thoughts I have had. This setup will likely need more work in the future before it becomes balanced and fun. If none of my changes are implemented and (as MM notes) the neutral survivor is left in there I can see this being a very town-sided game. Wolves wining this will be very difficult and it will be quite frustrating for them.

[Zedus]

@MartinGG99 thank you for detailed feedback. I am busy with my job for several days, so I can answer in details later, probably this weekend. I use your thoughts to improve the setup!