S-FM 354: Short Fuse Mafia

[MartinGG99]

S-FM 354: Short Fuse Mafia

Player-list (determined upon Day 1):

1. Helz
2. Mizery
3. Marshmallow Marshall
4. scumbot5679
5. Cape90
6. powerofdeath
7. Luka
8. Frinckles

Ordering to be randomly determined at SoD1, depending on if the Mafia Goons decide if they want to be seated behind (i.e. be able to /detonate to kill) a mafia or town.

Spoiler : full/official setup (don't rely on what the signups said, it was incomplete) :

Hapless Citizen
Hapless Citizen
Hapless Citizen
Hapless Citizen
Hapless Citizen
Hapless Citizen

Mafia Goon but Explosive
Mafia Goon but Explosive


Win conditions are normal.
Every day there will be an elimination via vote. Eliminations are plurality + majority. RNGjesus takes the wheel if there's a tie.

Days are 48 hours, nights after day 1 will be 24 hours but nothing (except mafia chat) happens during them. No night-kills!!! Treat them as breaks if you would like.
SoD/EoD is 8pm EDT.

Anyone may publicly post "/detonate" in the thread. This kills the person seated in front of them once the host is aware of it (If you're player 8, then you kill player 1, if you're player 1, you kill player 2, and so on). Prior to Day 1, the Mafia Goons can decide if they are seated behind their mafia partner or behind a Hapless Citizen. Regardless of alignment, if you use "/detonate" you may not use it again for 24 hours after you've last said it (time between the "/detonate" being said and the host being aware of it is not an extra cool-down). If "/detonate" is used at a time where someone else has already used "/detonate" on you, even if the host is not aware of it yet, your "/detonate" will not be processed.

10 posts per day phase is required. If you don't meet this, you may be risking instant replacement. Where I am able, I will try to warn you of this if you appear to not be meeting this.

[MartinGG99]

Extended Night 0 has begun, as roles have been sent out, and will end on Saturday, 8 PM EDT. Check your discord DMs for a relative timestamp that I put in there.

[MartinGG99]

Day 1 has begun! The player-list/ordering is as follows:

@Helz
@Mizery
@Marshmallow Marshall
@scumbot5679
@Cape90
@powerofdeath
Luka
@Frinckles

If you "/detonate", you will kill the next living person listed directly below you (Luka would kill Frinkcles, Frinckles would kill Helz, Helz would kill Mizery, ect). I will be checking in every-so-often (depending on how busy I am, I can't make any promises as to how often, sorry) and once I see a person has triggered a /detonate will said killed person be registered as dead. If I am not aware you've been detonated/killed, you are considered alive until I am aware. The time prior to that but after the "/detonate" will count towards reducing the 24 hour cooldown, regardless of my awareness.

5 votes to hammer.

Day 1 ends in 48 hours from now. I'll be sending timestamps to you all in a discord DM very soon, so you can know what time that is in your timezone.

[powerofdeath]

/detonate

[Mizery]

Rip cape

[MartinGG99]

welp

rip @Luka

he was hapless citizen

[powerofdeath]

rip

[Mizery]

Ok I read that wrong

[Mizery]

So that means if I detonated I would kill mm not helz?

[MartinGG99]

4 votes to hammer.

Forgot to adjust the majority requirement since now 4 is a majority.

[powerofdeath]

So that means if I detonated I would kill mm not helz?

Yea

[powerofdeath]

i'll be killing frinckles in 24 hours unless cape kill me first

[MartinGG99]

So that means if I detonated I would kill mm not helz?

Yes. I might as well write it all out currently:

Helz kills Mizery
Mizery kills Marshmallow Marshall
Marshmallow Marshall kills scumbot5679
scumbot5679 kills Cape90
Cape90 kills powerofdeath
powerofdeath kills Frinckles (although powerofdeath is on cool-down so any /detonate that is said before 24 hours have passed will not work)
Frinckles kills Helz (since Frinckles is at bottom of list, it wraps around)

[Mizery]

Uhm cape hurry up and kill him

[Mizery]

-vote powerofdeath

I mean we had to all know someone would instashoot but it's like still bad

[Cape90]

it really is tempting to just insta shoot that

[Cape90]

Unfamiliar with everyone except POD, this should be fun . Seen Frinckles in champs

[powerofdeath]

would i make myself such a big target as mafia hmm?

[powerofdeath]

big wifom incoming:

idc what you do with me

[Cape90]

would i make myself such a big target as mafia hmm?

why do you think i haven't deto'd u?

I also don't trust Miz enough yet to know how bad faith his push to deto you is

[Cape90]

also it will become "vote wrong and lose" if PoD is citizen, but IDK how much that matters

because of that, it makes me slightly concerned about the WIFOM post though

[Mizery]

why do you think i haven't deto'd u?

I also don't trust Miz enough yet to know how bad faith his push to deto you is

It's not good faith or bad faith it's policy

I'm noting that you didn't take a side at all tho just noted it and the way you did that I'm not a complete fan of

[Mizery]

The way you worded that is just so strange to me

Would a wolf come into thread though and just straight up push me for trying to kill someone for doing something that no doubt everyone wants to do?
Because waffling on that isn't really wolfy it's just strange in the way that you seemed to emphasize that you don't know if you can trust me yet instead of taking a side/forming an opinion

[Cape90]

It's not good faith or bad faith it's policy

I'm noting that you didn't take a side at all tho just noted it and the way you did that I'm not a complete fan of

you seem to be thinking like mafia here and I don't like that

why should I take a side there? I know immediately detonating is not great, I mean they literally killed someone who didn't even get a chance to play the game. I don't particularly think their deto is AI and all me detoing will do is just cause a stupid chain to happen and for mafia to win. Which kinda sounds like maybe what u want ;)

By your logic me policy detoing would be stupid because AS YOU SAID

I mean we had to all know someone would instashoot...

Meaning you KNOW it isn't particularly AI either

[Cape90]

but you know i HAVE to take a side even though more then half the players left haven't posted

[Mizery]

Never said you had to take a side, the way you worded that you specifically like "did not know if I trust mizery" or wtv you said was just like, that didn't need to be said and instead you like said it

[Mizery]

Also do you mean nai

[Mizery]

Gotta be honest not understanding a lot of what ur saying rn

[Cape90]

Also do you mean nai

Oh, I apologize, that means "not alignment indicative" meaning I believe you want to policy someone for reasons that I could see both town and mafia do with no real leaning one way or the other.

Like as for myself, I would rather play to my win condition, which is to kill mafia rather then just killing people for bad plays.

[Helz]

So mechanically-

If wolves are behind 2 townies:
6T 2W
-1 from POD detonating on Luka
-1 from Lynch
4T 2W entering D2
-2 from double wolf detonation and we loose

We could WIFOM all day about if wolves would want the kill insulation or the extra day kill but this is a bad place to be in. If there is 1 more town killed via Day Vig and a bad lynch its potentially game over when we go into D2 and townies will need to quickly detonate and get one wolf to save the game. I believe if we approach such a situation we should plan for it and have players online the second day starts.

On POD's shot:
I very much dislike that he killed without allowing the player to interact. If Luka had flipped scum we would have been robbed of any indicators to read into and solve the game. Cape saying its not AI to Day Vig a town and flatly voice intent to Day Vig a second player the moment their cooldown is up is not great. I would expect some form of take one way or the other on such an issue and my mind instantly jumps to the potential of a POD/Cape aligned team that chose to stack behind etch other. POD could kill but not be killed and in such a world wolves need 3 townies dead D1 to win on D2.
-But- Its an extremely balls out play that exposes the entire team and sets POD up as the obvious lynch if he kills 2 townies so they would literally be depending on swinging the lynch somewhere else so I find it unlikely such a coordinated plan that is so reckless would be used by a team. For that reason I feel like POD and Cape are either not aligned or if they are this was not a coordinated plan. At minimum it places Frinckles in a self preservation situation where against POD where he either lobbies Cape to kill POD or pushes the town to vote POD off prior to the ending cooldown. None of these are good things for a wolf POD.

So TLDR-
Cape/POD less likely to be aligned or this action was almost certainly not a planned team strategy. Its too reckless imo
Him intending to kill a second time is mechanically good for wolves that are stacked in the lobby order.

@powerofdeath
Why did you kill instantly instead of waiting to get some stuff out of Luka to read him post flip?

[Helz]

@Cape90
Unless the situation changes the way I see it you have a trolley problem. The train is going to run over Frinckles when POD's cooldown expires. Will you let it happen or pull a lever diverting the train to run over POD instead? Either way someone dies but you get to decide which of the two unless scumbot stops you.

[Helz]

Oh, I apologize, that means "not alignment indicative" meaning I believe you want to policy someone for reasons that I could see both town and mafia do with no real leaning one way or the other.

Like as for myself, I would rather play to my win condition, which is to kill mafia rather then just killing people for bad plays.

I am curious. What town motivation do you see for jumping into a game and blindly killing in a 5T/2W pool? You are referring to it as a 'bad play' for town.

[Mizery]

Well if no one talks then this game is gonna be even harder

[Marshmallow Marshall]

/detonate

... excuse me? They lived a grand total of ZERO MINUTES.

Last time this happened in a similar setup, it was done by mafia (cf. Ceko dayshooting Lumi at start of D1, although it was pretty much trolling). I defended Ceko, thinking scum probably wouldn't do that. I was wrong. Defend yourself

-vote powerofdeath

[Marshmallow Marshall]

it really is tempting to just insta shoot that

Unfamiliar with everyone except POD, this should be fun . Seen Frinckles in champs

would i make myself such a big target as mafia hmm?

big wifom incoming:

idc what you do with me

Afaik you weren't like this at all in your previous games as town, and you also aren't a troll, so what exactly is your point? Why should we not just kill you, since you're basically openwolfing atm? It's almost too easy to be real - but it has happened in the past, so I'm more inclined to actually get rid of you lol.

why do you think i haven't deto'd u?

I also don't trust Miz enough yet to know how bad faith his push to deto you is

The fact Cape didn't just insta blow up POD indicates that either Cape is town or he's scum with PoD and decided to sit behind him (which would be ridiculous if the plan is to blow someone up in the first minute of the game lol). A scum!Cape vs town!PoD instantly detonates with pretty much no consequences here and has his cooldown start refreshing immediatly, which is the scum play there.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

@Cape90
Unless the situation changes the way I see it you have a trolley problem. The train is going to run over Frinckles when POD's cooldown expires. Will you let it happen or pull a lever diverting the train to run over POD instead? Either way someone dies but you get to decide which of the two unless scumbot stops you.

trolley problem conductor.png

I think it's more like he has to figure out whether or not PoD is scum, much like all of us. Let's not forget lynch exists: we could actually just lynch POD, too, and POD could... decide not to blow Frinckles up when he hasn't said anything yet, so this looks very much like a false dichotomy.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

you seem to be thinking like mafia here and I don't like that

why should I take a side there? I know immediately detonating is not great, I mean they literally killed someone who didn't even get a chance to play the game. I don't particularly think their deto is AI and all me detoing will do is just cause a stupid chain to happen and for mafia to win. Which kinda sounds like maybe what u want ;)

By your logic me policy detoing would be stupid because AS YOU SAID

Meaning you KNOW it isn't particularly AI either

It's not entirely NAI (it means Not Alignment Indicative, mizery), though. It depends on what he does next... and what he did next isn't particularly great, hence I'm voting there. I don't think blowing him up immediatly is a good idea, considering we want as much time as possible without people dying left and right, but I do think he is scummy for not even following up with anything. Like, he generated reactions - he could have said it was what he wanted, but he didn't say anything about those reactions, meaning it wasn't his goal (else he'd have exploited the info he generated). And while I like you not insta-blowing him up, I'd still like you to address that point, since you could still be scum with him.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Aaaaaand nobody's here

[powerofdeath]

So mechanically-

If wolves are behind 2 townies:
6T 2W
-1 from POD detonating on Luka
-1 from Lynch
4T 2W entering D2
-2 from double wolf detonation and we loose

We could WIFOM all day about if wolves would want the kill insulation or the extra day kill but this is a bad place to be in. If there is 1 more town killed via Day Vig and a bad lynch its potentially game over when we go into D2 and townies will need to quickly detonate and get one wolf to save the game. I believe if we approach such a situation we should plan for it and have players online the second day starts.

On POD's shot:
I very much dislike that he killed without allowing the player to interact. If Luka had flipped scum we would have been robbed of any indicators to read into and solve the game. Cape saying its not AI to Day Vig a town and flatly voice intent to Day Vig a second player the moment their cooldown is up is not great. I would expect some form of take one way or the other on such an issue and my mind instantly jumps to the potential of a POD/Cape aligned team that chose to stack behind etch other. POD could kill but not be killed and in such a world wolves need 3 townies dead D1 to win on D2.
-But- Its an extremely balls out play that exposes the entire team and sets POD up as the obvious lynch if he kills 2 townies so they would literally be depending on swinging the lynch somewhere else so I find it unlikely such a coordinated plan that is so reckless would be used by a team. For that reason I feel like POD and Cape are either not aligned or if they are this was not a coordinated plan. At minimum it places Frinckles in a self preservation situation where against POD where he either lobbies Cape to kill POD or pushes the town to vote POD off prior to the ending cooldown. None of these are good things for a wolf POD.

So TLDR-
Cape/POD less likely to be aligned or this action was almost certainly not a planned team strategy. Its too reckless imo
Him intending to kill a second time is mechanically good for wolves that are stacked in the lobby order.

@powerofdeath
Why did you kill instantly instead of waiting to get some stuff out of Luka to read him post flip?

I’ve been planning to do it instantly for over a month

[powerofdeath]

Also I originally thought both detonater and target die together

[Marshmallow Marshall]

I’ve been planning to do it instantly for over a month

Also I originally thought both detonater and target die together

That doesn't actually explain anything, though... like, why do you do any of this as town?

The problem is, there's also the question "why do you do any of this as scum?", but your lack of follow-up on the reactions makes me think you're just happy with the chaos you caused without trying to gain any information. If you're town, though, you absolutely should be addressing reactions and drawing conclusions right now.

[scumbot5679]

low key think cape and POD are scum here.

[Mizery]

It's not entirely NAI (it means Not Alignment Indicative, mizery), though. It depends on what he does next... and what he did next isn't particularly great, hence I'm voting there. I don't think blowing him up immediatly is a good idea, considering we want as much time as possible without people dying left and right, but I do think he is scummy for not even following up with anything. Like, he generated reactions - he could have said it was what he wanted, but he didn't say anything about those reactions, meaning it wasn't his goal (else he'd have exploited the info he generated). And while I like you not insta-blowing him up, I'd still like you to address that point, since you could still be scum with him.

I know what it means

I thought he said it was AI because I can't read

[Mizery]

Also I originally thought both detonater and target die together

You didn't seem very surprised when you lived though

[Mizery]

The problem is without the detonation there would be nothing to talk about if POD didn't detonate (well, like any normal mafia game, except with no one in thread) but since he did detonate it will be easy for wolves to hide behind accusing him for not playing optimally if town.

[scumbot5679]

So mechanically-

If wolves are behind 2 townies:
6T 2W
-1 from POD detonating on Luka
-1 from Lynch
4T 2W entering D2
-2 from double wolf detonation and we loose

We could WIFOM all day about if wolves would want the kill insulation or the extra day kill but this is a bad place to be in. If there is 1 more town killed via Day Vig and a bad lynch its potentially game over when we go into D2 and townies will need to quickly detonate and get one wolf to save the game. I believe if we approach such a situation we should plan for it and have players online the second day starts.

On POD's shot:
I very much dislike that he killed without allowing the player to interact. If Luka had flipped scum we would have been robbed of any indicators to read into and solve the game. Cape saying its not AI to Day Vig a town and flatly voice intent to Day Vig a second player the moment their cooldown is up is not great. I would expect some form of take one way or the other on such an issue and my mind instantly jumps to the potential of a POD/Cape aligned team that chose to stack behind etch other. POD could kill but not be killed and in such a world wolves need 3 townies dead D1 to win on D2.
-But- Its an extremely balls out play that exposes the entire team and sets POD up as the obvious lynch if he kills 2 townies so they would literally be depending on swinging the lynch somewhere else so I find it unlikely such a coordinated plan that is so reckless would be used by a team. For that reason I feel like POD and Cape are either not aligned or if they are this was not a coordinated plan. At minimum it places Frinckles in a self preservation situation where against POD where he either lobbies Cape to kill POD or pushes the town to vote POD off prior to the ending cooldown. None of these are good things for a wolf POD.

So TLDR-
Cape/POD less likely to be aligned or this action was almost certainly not a planned team strategy. Its too reckless imo
Him intending to kill a second time is mechanically good for wolves that are stacked in the lobby order.

@powerofdeath
Why did you kill instantly instead of waiting to get some stuff out of Luka to read him post flip?

I don't know if I really agree with this. A scum POD has plenty of scum motivation to come in and rando detonate then play the WIFOM card. I think Cape is a bit scummy for not instantly wanting POD dead..to me that would make sense as partners. I also think Cape is lying about how familiar he is with the player list. Maybe you say "well that's not a big lie." and maybe not but he's still lying.

[Mizery]

rip

Yea

i'll be killing frinckles in 24 hours unless cape kill me first

would i make myself such a big target as mafia hmm?

This isn't the reaction of someone who isn't familiar with how the detonate mechanic would work

[scumbot5679]

Someone argue with me about something. I need 7 more posts but I don't really have any other game-related posting to do. I just think its a POD/Cape team and I don't really see myself budging from that position.

[Mizery]

... excuse me? They lived a grand total of ZERO MINUTES.

Last time this happened in a similar setup, it was done by mafia (cf. Ceko dayshooting Lumi at start of D1, although it was pretty much trolling). I defended Ceko, thinking scum probably wouldn't do that. I was wrong. Defend yourself

-vote powerofdeath

That was kind of a different situation though where you could 1) Shoot whoever you wanted to not just who was infront of you in the list, and 2) Ceko shooting lumi wasn't a "lol I'm going to detonate right away" but theoretically more targeted to "I'm gonna kill lumi right away" and was NAI imo.
Not only that but you only had one shot in that game and here you can shoot twice in a day if you shoot before the 24 hr mark. I would honestly say that that makes shooting immediately more wolfy since if you are a villager and want to maximize your shots then you can shoot before the 24 hr mark and still have time to make another shot if you're not shot yourself.

But I'm not going to theorize any more on that until POD responds because imo there's like 2 acceptable answers he could say

[Mizery]

Someone argue with me about something. I need 7 more posts but I don't really have any other game-related posting to do. I just think its a POD/Cape team and I don't really see myself budging from that position.

If you don't see yourself budging then why not detonate?