S-FM 353: Death Nominations

[ikarusdk]

im sheeping my townreads' scumread on scumbot and then im trying to help make a tie to make an infinite day dude

i didnt say im confident they're wolves. i said if they quickhammer me - that is break the tie as soon as day ends to prevent us from having the infinite day - that is outing ergo if anyone does that they're an outed wolf

day normally ends in 45 mins

could i ask u to heroically and miracilously find me as town real quick, and if u do, help me tie the votes between scumbot and the hydra?

scumbot is consensus scumread and reasonably likely to flip mafia. we tied him with anyone just to cheat and extend the day. but then ikarus also put me into the tie and im not towncore apparently but consensus townread. scumbot might out to chop me, and after we kill him he can nom 3 town too. i feel like its kinda not worth

so if u could do that, u could vote for scumbot or the hydra and i can vote the other one. thats what the tie was supposed to be. if any of them was a wolf who was willing to out, they had to out by chopping a scumread player. not me whos a townread slot

This is just one post you made before this one.

I don't know if you can say you are just sheeping your townreads.

[ikarusdk]

martin and baker have the most experience with me and both have me in their towncores

I mean, i am not saying i am right here. Hence the discussion and exploring with questions and speculations. Others are free to chime in.

[ikarusdk]

If you are town, you might have your reasons to towncore your townreads, but I do feel uneasy about the fact you are willing to towncore them so hard that you are betting your day 1 on 'sheeping' their reads and vote players out.

[ikarusdk]

Almost feels like gambling if you are town
Feels like agenda based if you are wolf.

[powerofdeath]

Rules:
You must post at least five times every 24 hours. You will receive 1 warning, and will be replaced if this happen the second time. If you posted 0 times in 24 hours, its immediate replacement without warning. In an event of a replacement, I may extend day by 12 more hours.

The Scarlet Letters only made 1 post, and I do not deem it enough to keep them in the game.

CRichardForumLies has replaced The Scarlet Letters. (This may make the vote count look funky, but please switch your votes as soon as you can. I will still count it regardless).

Day 1 is extended by 12 more hours. Tiebreaker extension will still apply at the end of 12 additional hours.

Day 1 will end Sunday 9:00 AM EST. Click here for reference.

[ikarusdk]

But I must sleep again, so I'll be back and I hope the tie is still here, but we will need to break it soon because I don't wanna spend 1 year on day 1 rofl.

[tutuu]

EBWOP - I note that tutuu didn't separate sscarlet/scumbot because what they are saying is if one votes out tutuu, the other should be looked at (my bad)

I realise that it could be written by T!Tutuu in a hypothetical situation where they could quick hammer you because doing so is outing them, but this is where I don't understand your stance and is a bit manipulative.

1. you've bee pushing hard for scarlet/scumbot but you don't really have convincing reasons to do so
2. with 3 people not having voted, you are unnecessarily paranoid about being quick hammered
3. then you go on to suggest that whoever of those two quick hammers you is outing themselves as wolves. - but is that really the case? Is hammering someone to end the day in a tie alignment indicative if you do indeed flip town?
4. The whole thing screams, it's either scarlet or scumbot, if not both. So in case where I am voted out, vote the player that hammered me, but also scumread the other one.

1. i have not. lol. im sheeping. im not scumreading any of them
2. it doesn't matter them not voting. if one of the tied ppl is mafia they can do that. its not the end of the world but its less optimal than if it was a 2 way tie
3. ....yes it is because the whole point of the tie is to make an infinite day coz everyone is afk and give ppl time to read. sabotaging the extra day time and opportunity to discuss without asking for a clear is egregious enough to be treated as a wolf claim, by a wolf who would have thought they'd lose the tie anyway, so might as well quickhammer me when im townread
4. i did not say that. im echoing my townreads reads. and im stating the obvious that if one of then openwolves u should chop them. when baker insisted i leave 3 names to look into - i said those names because he asked for something and that was my gun to head response. i cant read people if they aren't posting

[CRichardForumLies]

Hello everyone! I see that my slot is the counterwagon despite making 1 post before I came in.

[tutuu]

This is just one post you made before this one.

I don't know if you can say you are just sheeping your townreads.

i am just sheeping my townreads.

i have faith that they are right

[CRichardForumLies]

Tutuu and Martin as 2 mafia voting me would be wild, yet I don't think that's the case because mafia as a rule don't like stacking votes on a slot D1 to throw off VC analysis.

[tutuu]

If you are town, you might have your reasons to towncore your townreads, but I do feel uneasy about the fact you are willing to towncore them so hard that you are betting your day 1 on 'sheeping' their reads and vote players out.

sheeping your townreads is a good strategy when you have no scumreads that players should follow to win more games

[tutuu]

Tutuu and Martin as 2 mafia voting me would be wild, yet I don't think that's the case because mafia as a rule don't like stacking votes on a slot D1 to throw off VC analysis.

my vote was on scumbot i voted you to make a tie to extend the day

[CRichardForumLies]

Baker feels more likely to be town, mainly because I haven't disliked any of their posts today.

[CRichardForumLies]

my vote was on scumbot i voted you to make a tie to extend the day

Hmm I can believe this.

[MartinGG99]

If it need be said, I do townread tutuu and am largely unphased by Ikarus' concerns.

I'm not sure what is meant by "subtle manipulative comments" as I think the term "manipulation" is largely something of a connotative nature rather than anything strictly defined. Which could mean its at risk of being misconstrued. I doubt my mind will be changed, but if my mind is going to be changed, examples would be good.

[CRichardForumLies]

Did any of the D1 trains reach 3 votes today? I wouldn't mind looking at those, because whichever train reached 3 votes 1st would have to contain 1 mafia either as a train voter, or the train themselves.

[MartinGG99]

Scumbot reached 4

bakermir/me/Vittae/tutuu all voted that iirc, before we decided to try tying stuff -- at least for a short while

[CRichardForumLies]

Scumbot reached 4

bakermir/me/Vittae/tutuu all voted that iirc, before we decided to try tying stuff -- at least for a short while

Alright I'll take a look at the wagon.

[CRichardForumLies]

Vittae apparently claimed to be someone I've played with before. I want to say they're town and not look again, yet from I remember. They are capable of snowing town as mafia. Caveat: It doesn't mean they're mafia without question, it's more that you don't town lean Vittae and not reevaluate as the game progresses.

[CRichardForumLies]

Scumbot (3): Martin, Bakermir, Vittae probably has one mafia total, because of a tell I learned earlier.

[CRichardForumLies]

Player List:
1. MartinGG99
2. Marshmallow Marshall
3. Varcron
4. ikarusdk
5. tutuu
6. scumbot5679
7. Vittae
8. bakermir
9. lol
10. CRichardForumLies

1 Mafia in Scumbot, Bakermir, Martin and Vittae.
2 Mafia in Marshmallow Marshal, Varcron, Ikaru, Tutuu and lol.
That's where my head is at right now.

[scumbot5679]

I lowkey think tutu is town. the whole "I'm voting with my town reads" + following the consensus reads feels like lvl 1 town play.

I don't like MM avoiding my wagon. He's in a difficult place. If he calls me scum he looks bad when I flip town and if he calls me town then he risks angering the people calling me scum. + I kind of get the vibe that he's playing like last game.

[scumbot5679]

I also really hate Varcron being Vittae's #1 scum read but I just magically hurdle him, Seems pretty opportunistic.

[scumbot5679]

So my top 3 scum reads are

2. Marshmallow Marshall
7. Vittae
3. Varcron

but if I'm wrong somewhere it means that there's scum in

1. MartinGG99
9. lol
10. CRichardForumLies The Scarlet Letters (Nancy/Italiano Hydra)

[scumbot5679]

-vote Marshmallow Marshall

[scumbot5679]

1 Mafia in Scumbot, Bakermir, Martin and Vittae.

why do you even think I'm scum?

[CRichardForumLies]

why do you even think I'm scum?

I'm not saying you're scum. I'm saying that out of you, Vittae, Baker and Martin that one of you is mafia as your train is the first to get to 3 votes.

[scumbot5679]

So vote MM with me?

[CRichardForumLies]

So vote MM with me?

I can see myself voting them, as I don't feel they've been outstandingly towny from memory.

[CRichardForumLies]

-vote Marshmallow Marshal

[scumbot5679]

I've been going through martins posting since I've missed things here and there b/c I didn't really understand why he was voting me

A wolf trying to be chill / unaccommodating may be more likely with more than a decade of experience (I conjecture that though, not many decade+ players I've met lol). I'm also seeing it as possibly wolf-ish since when answering about meta he doesn't seem to consider that if nancy is active someone could post scumbot's meta or whatever anyways. Not even a consideration of posting it later as well.

I realize that its "scummy" but I have a right to privacy and if I rather leave the past in the past I should have that right. It's unfortunate that I don't have any scum games from other sites (at least not ones's that exist any more) and that it could result in my elimination. I somewhat trust Nancy to understand my position and be considerate but ultimately I have no control over her actions. The "scumbot isn't posting a link to a scum game thus he's scummy!." is like the dumbest take ever. You seem like a smart chap so I would have expected more from a town you, unless you aren't town.

Also, I'm about to lynch scum so if you're town get ready for a big helping of crow.

[scumbot5679]

Nancy could post it and he doesn't consider that!

is this like an actual thought?

[scumbot5679]

I'll need to think it over more since I had voted him initially for an entrance post containing a meta read.

On p127

Is this talking about me? If so, hy was it scummy to meta read bake?

[scumbot5679]

@scumbot5679
I'd also like to know if you would adhere to a consensus list for tomorrow if one were provided.

gonna be honest here. If I'm nominating that just means you've flipped town so I'd be somewhat unwilling to trust that you guys get it right. Now if there's someone we both agree on then I'd be willing to nom them. So remind me who you are scum reading.

[MartinGG99]

I've been going through martins posting since I've missed things here and there b/c I didn't really understand why he was voting me


I realize that its "scummy" but I have a right to privacy and if I rather leave the past in the past I should have that right. It's unfortunate that I don't have any scum games from other sites (at least not ones's that exist any more) and that it could result in my elimination. I somewhat trust Nancy to understand my position and be considerate but ultimately I have no control over her actions. The "scumbot isn't posting a link to a scum game thus he's scummy!." is like the dumbest take ever. You seem like a smart chap so I would have expected more from a town you, unless you aren't town.

Also, I'm about to lynch scum so if you're town get ready for a big helping of crow.

Well, fmpov of that time, if nancy was more active this game its possible they would've brought up past scum games of yours. Which would make your decision not to share preety pointless and (as you like to affectionately call things from people we supposedly have higher expectations of) dumb. It wasn't solely a matter of you deciding to not link, but to do so while someone else potentially could have.

But, as you've explained now rather than explaining earlier, the sites containing such scum games no longer exist. Which makes more sense.

I guess you could have a right to privacy, in whatever country you're in. I'm not up to date on privacy laws. Personally though I grew up with the understanding that anything done on the internet (heck sometimes even in life) can and will discovered, and while that doesn't advocate that people dig up other's pasts, it does suggest a principle of conducting oneself mindfully on the internet. Its more of a pragmatic evaluation since that rights and laws have their limit in their protection because they require people to respect said rights and laws in the first place.

Nancy could post it and he doesn't consider that!

is this like an actual thought?

for someone you apparently have higher expectations of, yes

The real question is whether you're alleging me to underperforming as town or underperforming as mafia, as there can and will be cases of each at some point in time.

Is this talking about me? If so, hy was it scummy to meta read bake?

I discuss this later in the game after what you've quoted, but the sum of it is that meta read entrances are rare (more common in higher-activity d1s in my experience, where there's more to make a meta read off of) and as such tend to believe they're more likely from mafia than non-mafia when game activity is on the lower end.

[MartinGG99]

I'm not saying you're scum. I'm saying that out of you, Vittae, Baker and Martin that one of you is mafia as your train is the first to get to 3 votes.

if you're counting the first three voters chronologically

tutuu was among them, just didn't use the vote command

[snip by martin]
/Vote scumbot sheeping baker and martin i need to read how to vote but need to go out rn

so first three voters would've been in this order

me, bakermir, tutuu

vittae would've been 4th

[MartinGG99]

Honestly beginning to wish the days were longer.

Even if we do tie things it does potentially constrain us to voting out one of the ties unless we can somehow muster the coordination to temporarily cause three-way ties in order to do a shift.

Scumbot and everyone else I want to do a re-evaluation on but I don't have enough time for that with the stuff I gotta do. Not because I think I need to shift every single read I have, but on the observation that in order for nom suggestions to be useful they'll be given to town-flipped players. Mafia-flipped players would either ignore or WIFOM around them, making nom suggestions pointless to them. So I should have worlds built up for cases where I'm right and cases where I'm wrong.

[scumbot5679]

I'm basically an alt account and wish to remain anom. If you find me scummy for this game then fine but me not wanting to out, or trying not to out, isn't scummy and claiming that it is is such an ass reason.

[scumbot5679]

Nancy was free to talk about my games, I'm free to talk about my games.

bake was the main topic of discussion so sharing my analysis is just like a normal play. I dunno what you want me to say. I'm not going to go digging for it but I think that you also ragged on my for not being the first to call Bake town but here's the kicker.

Your 170 is also not the first town read on Bake and ALSO a meta red. Why are you calling me scum for the exact same things you did?

[MartinGG99]

Nancy was free to talk about my games, I'm free to talk about my games.

bake was the main topic of discussion so sharing my analysis is just like a normal play. I dunno what you want me to say. I'm not going to go digging for it but I think that you also ragged on my for not being the first to call Bake town but here's the kicker.

Your 170 is also not the first town read on Bake and ALSO a meta red. Why are you calling me scum for the exact same things you did?

I think you've glazed over when I said entrance.

Why are you trying to use alleged hypocrisy to defend yourself and convince me that you're town?

[scumbot5679]

I'm not. I'm scumhunting.

[MartinGG99]

I'm basically an alt account and wish to remain anom. If you find me scummy for this game then fine but me not wanting to out, or trying not to out, isn't scummy and claiming that it is is such an ass reason.

I think you're getting worked up over a mild misimpression.

Not saying you're right or wrong in any way, but I think trying to clear it up will take more effort than its worth.

[MartinGG99]

I'm not. I'm scumhunting.

scum-hunting someone for supposedly doing the same thing as you (or at the very least is framed that you see it as the same) is a bit ironic in more ways than one, considering that's just what you've just alleged of me here

[snip by martin]
Your 170 is also not the first town read on Bake and ALSO a meta red. Why are you calling me scum for the exact same things you did?

hence why I believed you were trying to convince me you were town rather than scumhunting in accusing me of hypocrisy

[scumbot5679]

What I'm saying is that you've called me scum for all those reasons but you did the same things.

[MartinGG99]

Spoiler : conversation log for those who may get confused :

Your 170 is also not the first town read on Bake and ALSO a meta red. Why are you calling me scum for the exact same things you did?

Why are you trying to use alleged hypocrisy to defend yourself and convince me that you're town?

I'm not. I'm scumhunting.

scum-hunting someone for supposedly doing the same thing as you (or at the very least is framed that you see it as the same) is a bit ironic in more ways than one, considering that's just what you've just alleged of me here

What I'm saying is that you've called me scum for all those reasons but you did the same things.

Yeah. And it doesn't make sense to me to say that, from my current understanding. Here you're questioning my scum-hunting of you because you were allegedly doing the same as I was. But you're also turning that same point of question to scum-hunt me. If I understood you correctly.

If its not clear: If I'm doing the same thing then how am I scum to you? -- which is the same question you're asking me about how I suspected you earlier.

Hence I thought maybe it was you trying to convince me you were town.

Regardless:

From my perspective, I haven't done the same. I didn't pop in with my first post being a meta read of another's play, I didn't really bring my impressions of bake up until later. I was happy to RVS and let things simmer with baker for awhile before making a read of him.

There is similarity in that we have meta reads, and both were on baker, but to me the nuance lies in when those reads occurred. I could easily imagine an entrance meta read being made as a way to enter the game from a scum's perspective, but in these circumstances it doesn't really fit neatly. Like, for example, the difference in setups between this game and the game we compared to. I imagine you'll ask why I made my read then, but I'll make it clear that my read was openly surface-level and admits to possible error. It only solidified once Tutuu and Vittae appears to have similar impressions of baker.

[MartinGG99]

@CRichardForumLies

you forgot an l in your vote

so MM is at one vote rather than two

[tutuu]

I think scumbot could be town. If hes mafia why not just hammer me? Unless he manages to chop mm and mm is town. But then why not kill me instead? Or unless scumbot and richard are both mafia and quickhammering me would look bad for them. But theyre both voting outside the trio. This is so weird. We might be all town. Im lost. Im in class rn. Business informatics

[tutuu]

I need someone to guide me

Im sorry i missed that days were 24 hours i was not prepared lmao

[tutuu]

I think scumbot could be town. If hes mafia why not just hammer me? Unless he manages to chop mm and mm is town. But then why not kill me instead? Or unless scumbot and richard are both mafia and quickhammering me would look bad for them. But theyre both voting outside the trio. This is so weird. We might be all town. Im lost. Im in class rn. Business informatics

@Martin @Vittae @Baker gucci gang gucci gang who we voting?

[tutuu]

Scumbots emotions read pure to me i think hes town idk