S-FM 353: Death Nominations

[CRichardForumLies]

lol voted me for no reason and then ikarus joined him by voting me for no reason and put me in a three way tie

i think this is too absurd to come from w/w

I believe it. Wolves tend to avoid stacking votes on a player, because it makes them look partnered which they don't want.

[tutuu]

I believe it. Wolves tend to avoid stacking votes on a player, because it makes them look partnered which they don't want.

hell yea boi

[CRichardForumLies]

Yeah i dunno tutuu seems like an obvious wolf to me. I keep my vote on them if i'm the only person thinking that so be it

It's pretty much all fluff, no action for someone super worried they will not kill a wolf. Agressively following everyone then will probably complain if someone votes wrong

Am I tripping thinking this is towny? I feel that if lol is a wolf, they'd want to blend in more by echoing the thread repping town leans on tutuu.

[Wiml]

I don't think that's generally a valid tell since experienced wolves should and will frequently abuse such things, especially when it comes down to pushing players they'd otherwise have difficulty pushing over (Tutuu definitely fitting that bill in a t-Tutuu, w-lol, w-ika world).

That being said, I think on reflection the fact that the second vote was cast by Ikarus (who is a less experienced player and likely to be very self conscious of such a thing as a wolf) is probably a point in favour of them being unaligned even if I wouldn't really hard clear them from being partners just on that alone.

[Wiml]

But like also

Ikarus is probably town anyway

[CRichardForumLies]

If Ikarus is new to forum mafia, that's a point in their favor being town. As they don't give off stilted newbie mafia vibes from their posts.

[CRichardForumLies]

My town list is something like this
Me
Bakermir
Vittae
tutuu
lol
Ikaru
Scumbot

I wouldn't be surprised if this list has at least 1 mafia I've miscleared, because no way I get the entire mafia team pinned down D1.

[CRichardForumLies]

It might sound like I'm putting myself down as a forum mafia player, which maybe it is. Yet it's also a realistic assessment from past town games I've played in.

[ikarusdk]

@ikarusdk how many times have you randed wolf since we last played together?

I know of KRC and the one where you were partners with Frinckles and Stellaria but not sure if there were others.

I randed wolf once since KRC in Chaotic Executioner, I participated in subsequent S-FM games here. The rest are my town games so you can read up on them if you like.

[ikarusdk]

I can't comment on why lol voted tutuu initially.

My vote was completely separate from lol's, and even though I said I knew it was going to tie up the votes in a 3 way, that was not my intention to do so.

The reason I voted tutuu was not because of fluff posts or anything. In fact, I liked them quite a bit. It's because some of their posts worry me as to why they worded them that way, and especially after tutuu kept going after scumbot/Richard slot (which now seems to have veered off a bit).

Examples.

baker is probably town because he's excited to play the game

and i know he's not w/w with me, which he said he would enjoy playing

if he was wolfing against me would he have this much fun? idk maybe. i haven't seen him wolf. but gut says he doesn't know that i'm town

those arbitrary posts of his where he suggests arbitrary stuff like "no more than 1 wolf posted" and then thinking stuff further while accepting that his assumption to be right or him writing out strategies and stuff - i dont understand almost any of it but it's behavior he's shown as town. unless someone wants to tell me he mimics that as wolf perfectly - id say baker so far is representing a standard baker town game

- something pinged me as I was reading this waking up this morning. Like, something felt kinda off. If tutuu is reading baker town (but has the potential to be wolf), and tutuu himself is town here, why is he using 'he's not w/w with me'? Hear me out. Tutuu himself is town. Sees baker probably town, less likely to be wolf. So we are not w/w?? Doesn't sound a little off to you guys? Wouldn't you rather phrase it so it's 't/w'?

Yeah im just locking u as town

Damn this went so hard

If Vittae is wolf i think the only way i can catch them is if i think theyre TMI-ing me

These two posts also make me suspect tutuu is further pocketing vittae (although based on vittae's posts, it's easy to townread him). This is further supplemented by the fact tutuu has now spent majority of the day pushing for scumbot/richard slots because tutuu is 'sheeping' their towncore reads, independent of their absent scumread on their slots. It feels like because Vittae is town from W!Tutuu's POV, by towncoring Vittae early, and sheeping his reads and pushing the same prospects, tutuu hopes to get townread by Vittae (which tutuu succeeded).

I explored into the idea of Vittae being a scum with tutuu and that second post i quoted was made to distance themselves a little. My early prediction/speculation is that if Vittae is scum, tutuu is scum. But if Tutuu is scum, Vittae does not have to be.

Also I still am not convinced from their response/answers to my pressure. In fact, their answers to my posts aren't really helping me with my suspicions.

[ikarusdk]

I believe it. Wolves tend to avoid stacking votes on a player, because it makes them look partnered which they don't want.

I tend to vote whoever I want, regardless of who my townreads vote or current wagon is unless I have no choice of my own.

Having said that, if lol and i were w/w, then I could have WIFOM'd you into believing it that way by voting the same person.

[CRichardForumLies]

I tend to vote whoever I want, regardless of who my townreads vote or current wagon is unless I have no choice of my own.

Having said that, if lol and i were w/w, then I could have WIFOM'd you into believing it that way by voting the same person.

I suppose that's possible, though I've been told you're new to forum mafia and you'd probably hesitate to vote with your hypothetical mafia buddy lol in this scenario.

[ikarusdk]

If we flip mafia today, do they put in 3 town as their nominees or throw in 1 of their buddies for WIFOM?

or two buddies and one really obvious LHF

[Wiml]

My bunnies decided that peace was never an option.

[ikarusdk]

or two buddies and one really obvious LHF

probably should've kept this to myself until it happens.

[Wiml]

I see replies to me, going to catch up with the thrrad before I respond to more stuff since I'm still 100 posts behind.

[CRichardForumLies]

or two buddies and one really obvious LHF

That would be really risky though, as it's 2/3 chance one of their scum buddies gets lunched. I have a hard seeing mafia being that ballsy.

[bakermir]

My town list is something like this
Me
Bakermir
Vittae
tutuu
lol
Ikaru
Scumbot

I wouldn't be surprised if this list has at least 1 mafia I've miscleared, because no way I get the entire mafia team pinned down D1.

Interesting. I had this as one of the possible worlds in my excel and I know exactly who you might be misclearing if this world is the reality. Can you expand on your reads here a bit? I would like to hear more about MM/Varcron and Martin bit.

[ikarusdk]

That would be really risky though, as it's 2/3 chance one of their scum buddies gets lunched. I have a hard seeing mafia being that ballsy.

Yeah probably.

Also hello

[Wiml]

Did any of the D1 trains reach 3 votes today? I wouldn't mind looking at those, because whichever train reached 3 votes 1st would have to contain 1 mafia either as a train voter, or the train themselves.

This isn't something that's hard to fake but I can vouch for this tell being something that's genuinely used by a lot of folks and is currently pretty trendy over on MU.

[CRichardForumLies]

Varcron might be mafia from the simple reason I don't remember a single post they've made the entire day.

[ikarusdk]

Interesting. I had this as one of the possible worlds in my excel and I know exactly who you might be misclearing if this world is the reality. Can you expand on your reads here a bit? I would like to hear more about MM/Varcron and Martin bit.

not Richard - but

1. I do feel MM has been quite consistent in his alignment purely based on my games I've had with him, and I am starting to worry about their slot.
2. If I am right and tutuu is scum (but I am open to counterarguments about this for sure), Martin is also going to worry me HARD.
3. I don't really have that much thought about Varcron at this stage yet.

[CRichardForumLies]

Interesting. I had this as one of the possible worlds in my excel and I know exactly who you might be misclearing if this world is the reality. Can you expand on your reads here a bit? I would like to hear more about MM/Varcron and Martin bit.

I'd say that Vittae would be the one I'm potentially misclearing, because I've seen them snow town as mafia in past games.
MM/Varcron is PoE, and I'm thinking that if i'm wrong on lol. Martin is probably the townie who I'm incorrectly slotting into PoE.

[ikarusdk]

btw I saw baker mention Nancy. We have Nancy here?

[bakermir]

This isn't something that's hard to fake but I can vouch for this tell being something that's genuinely used by a lot of folks and is currently pretty trendy over on MU.

It was a thing in arcade mafia on sc2 for years. It is certainly a thing to consider, but things like these can easily get abused on the long run. CRich entrance certainly made me step back and have multiple reevals on my reads though.

[CRichardForumLies]

btw I saw baker mention Nancy. We have Nancy here?

Nancy is the one I replaced earlier today.

[bakermir]

I'd say that Vittae would be the one I'm potentially misclearing, because I've seen them snow town as mafia in past games.
MM/Varcron is PoE, and I'm thinking that if i'm wrong on lol. Martin is probably the townie who I'm incorrectly slotting into PoE.

Yeah close in a sense.

What do you think if Martin is mafia here, who is getting miscleared then?

[CRichardForumLies]

Yeah close in a sense.

What do you think if Martin is mafia here, who is getting miscleared then?

Probably Vittae, though I'm unsure who would fit as the 3rd mafia in this team.

[CRichardForumLies]

Probably Vittae, though I'm unsure who would fit as the 3rd mafia in this team.

It would be one of Varcron/MM mainly because I have townier players in my list than those 2.

[bakermir]

It would be one of Varcron/MM mainly because I have townier players in my list than those 2.

Following posts seemed like Martin is unaligned with Vittae to a good extent:






Am I wrong here?

[Wiml]

I'm basically an alt account and wish to remain anom. If you find me scummy for this game then fine but me not wanting to out, or trying not to out, isn't scummy and claiming that it is is such an ass reason.

That's something that would have been very useful to know beforehand but sure, that's fine.

[bakermir]

Following posts seemed like Martin is unaligned with Vittae to a good extent:






Am I wrong here?

hmm I failed with the images.

p#223
https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showt...724#post991724


p#238
https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showt...739#post991739

[CRichardForumLies]

I'm basically an alt account and wish to remain anom. If you find me scummy for this game then fine but me not wanting to out, or trying not to out, isn't scummy and claiming that it is is such an ass reason.

That's good to know. Something something alt account shouldn't be allowed, because they're scummy by tone. That's from someone I've played with.

[bakermir]

One of the things I enjoy about FoL is I can copy/paste my snips into the thread.

[Wiml]

No, nor do i know what your play is if you are Wiml. I know of you

By being in town meta or just obvious townie. If someone isn't posting it's harder to be town
I said why you're wolfy in a different post nothing to do about finding wolves



Wasn't even talking to you here. Was talking to the person who was asking to talk

I'll go through this D2 / post-deadline if you still want this self meta since it'll probably take me a while and I really don't have the time to go through this before deadline happens.

[Wiml]

But like:

We've played together on multiple occasions, I'm sure my playstyle isn't that hard to remember.

[Wiml]

I randed wolf once since KRC in Chaotic Executioner, I participated in subsequent S-FM games here. The rest are my town games so you can read up on them if you like.

Thanks, that's what I thought.

[Wiml]

I can't comment on why lol voted tutuu initially.

My vote was completely separate from lol's, and even though I said I knew it was going to tie up the votes in a 3 way, that was not my intention to do so.

The reason I voted tutuu was not because of fluff posts or anything. In fact, I liked them quite a bit. It's because some of their posts worry me as to why they worded them that way, and especially after tutuu kept going after scumbot/Richard slot (which now seems to have veered off a bit).

Examples.



- something pinged me as I was reading this waking up this morning. Like, something felt kinda off. If tutuu is reading baker town (but has the potential to be wolf), and tutuu himself is town here, why is he using 'he's not w/w with me'? Hear me out. Tutuu himself is town. Sees baker probably town, less likely to be wolf. So we are not w/w?? Doesn't sound a little off to you guys? Wouldn't you rather phrase it so it's 't/w'?





These two posts also make me suspect tutuu is further pocketing vittae (although based on vittae's posts, it's easy to townread him). This is further supplemented by the fact tutuu has now spent majority of the day pushing for scumbot/richard slots because tutuu is 'sheeping' their towncore reads, independent of their absent scumread on their slots. It feels like because Vittae is town from W!Tutuu's POV, by towncoring Vittae early, and sheeping his reads and pushing the same prospects, tutuu hopes to get townread by Vittae (which tutuu succeeded).

I explored into the idea of Vittae being a scum with tutuu and that second post i quoted was made to distance themselves a little. My early prediction/speculation is that if Vittae is scum, tutuu is scum. But if Tutuu is scum, Vittae does not have to be.

Also I still am not convinced from their response/answers to my pressure. In fact, their answers to my posts aren't really helping me with my suspicions.

I'm not going to go into detail on this rn because I'm really short on time as is but the way Ikarus is approaching Tutuu here is extremely towny.

[Wiml]

Should've spoilered that, mb.

[bakermir]

hmm I failed with the images.

p#223
https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showt...724#post991724


p#238
https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showt...739#post991739

@CRichardForumLies

I would like your input here

[Wiml]

Baker do you have other not w/w reads with links in your sheet?

[Wiml]

I'm absolutely against having ikarus on the nomination list for today.

Details will come later once I've finished ISOs on others but ultimately he's done several things in particular wrt solving that I don't really think are possible for him to replicate as a wolf knowing his experience level and wolf range.

[Wiml]

To the degree that I'd probably be willing to call him my top town after maybe Baker?

[bakermir]

Baker do you have other not w/w reads with links in your sheet?

My current poe/reads looks like:

scumbot5679
Marshmallow Marshall
ikarusdk
lol
tutuu
Vittae
MartinGG99
Varcron
CRichardForumLies

I could go in to details, but I think it is too early honestly. I am probably misclearing 1 in my townreads/leans and if I am wrong on more than 1 then this is a game losing PoE.

[Wiml]

We also need to be consolidating wagons again at some point if we're going for a tied vote again, ideally just into two wagons.

In a game with three wolves, wagons with just two votes each are obviously going to be extremely prone to manipulation.

[Wiml]

My current poe/reads looks like:

scumbot5679
Marshmallow Marshall
ikarusdk
lol
tutuu
Vittae
MartinGG99
Varcron
CRichardForumLies

I could go in to details, but I think it is too early honestly. I am probably misclearing 1 in my townreads/leans and if I am wrong on more than 1 then this is a game losing PoE.

I meant associative reads but this is also appreciated.

Is this going town -> mafia or mafia -> town?

[Wiml]

In either scenario, I'd appreciate you explaining your top 2 townreads to me.

[CRichardForumLies]

@CRichardForumLies

I would like your input here

Those convos don't feel like they're going through the motions of being forced to talk to each other in thread. So >rand not w/w.

[Wiml]

MM's ISO was significantly worse than I remembered his posts being individually. I've got no issues with him being a wagon here.

[Wiml]

I also hadn't realised he'd posted quite so little as he actually had.