S-FM 352: ★ Silent Night 2 ★

[ikarusdk]

I offered up a third alternative in Achro and you didn't seem interested, why

eh

I'm not opposed to the idea of chopping Achro but didn't want to do it on day 1.
At least he was transparent in everything he was talking about.

Would I lynch the slot on day 2? Nope - have better alternatives
Would I lynch the slot on day 3? If there is no other alternative.

[Loldebite]

Spoiler : big catchup and mostly useless post big since I typed it I'll post it :

I didnt like the way Stellaria's reaction to the Hydra thing. I think it was greatly exaggerated and feel like it was a bit dumbtelling. Especially after several posts by other people saying that Banana is not a hydra. Then Stellaria threw a fit and went ahead and voted Banana for it. Thats already -1

People who voted a mislem is also -1

I havent seen Stellaria making reads much this game yet beside this hydra incident. His playstyle is also pretty similar to a recent FM we had a couple months back when he was mafia.

I agree with all of this.

Banana should have probably played from the thread and not the chat, he played terribly and was very clearly inviting his own demise so he could flip. Doesn't surprise me that I'd be his suspect on account of his play, woeful

D2, already shading the dead lmao

I feel you are grossly misrepresenting the situation PoD.

I wanted people to pay more attention to Banana. I wanted people not to just give Banana a day 1 pass because supposedly someone on his hydra is new.

Kuti is the prime example of a person doing just that, and did not actually pay any attention to Banana until after I said something.

I made it apparent that if Banana wasn't a hydra, I'd be campaigning for everyone to vote for him.

Marshall outright told me to ask Frinckles. And I did. He was completely unaware of any hydras in this game.

Banana lied about frinckles signing off on Toad joining a hydra. Banana in fact outright admitted to not being in a hydra.

For being one of the top-posters, Banana was actively doing everything he could to not be helpful. And he was lying.

You cannot make me feel bad for being on that wagon. You cannot do it. Do not pass go and do not collect 20

Uhh.. If you throw in AtE after that one, I think you're pretty much outted scum

Was it obvious that he was a PR? Was it actually? FMPOV he was obviously a liar. Do you know something about his role?

Also Im gonna call complete bs on this one thing: of all three of Ikarus, Kuti, and myself, I'm your top read? Fmpov you're picking the easiest of us three to jump onto

"Obviously a liar" is shading the dead the new trend or what lol ? Am I also a liar for fake claiming "Princess of Claims" ? Should I be yeeted for it ?

Also the easiest is probably ika ?

I think Martin straight up has zero mafia in his POE and is townreading all the mafia and might have actually been straight popped because of it. It's exactly the type of cynical kill Kuti would make specifically because Kuti can't fake solve so they need things to hide behind like "OMG MAC MARTIN TOWNREAD ME I WOULD NEVER KILL HIM UR FUCKEN STUPID

*SELFVOTES AND LEAVES FOR AN HOUR*"

Okay that was funny

Yes, there was a hydra thing. We did play the same game. But I wasn't mad. And I think you're getting that idea from PoD, who has grossly misrepresented the situation, claiming that I threw a fit about it.

There was no fit. You could look through my ISO if you want. I made a post explaining my position on the hydra thing.

But it's a moot point to argue about it. Because I was right on every one of my points.

- Frinckles confirmed to me he knew nothing about any Hydra. Debunked Charmander's claim that he signed off on a new addition to the hydra. You can ask him yourself if you'd like.
- Charmander outright admitted that the Hydra was fake, confirming further that he was lying.
- Kuti in particular was wrong about giving Charmander a day 1 pass based on the premise that one of the "hydra" members was a newbie.

I could look for post numbers too if you want me to.

IDC about you being mad or whatever, what I care about is that this hydra thing is pretty much all you've talked about. You were right, yes, but it was still perfectly irrelevant, as others & I have been telling you more than once.

Anyway.

[Ultra]

eh

I'm not opposed to the idea of chopping Achro but didn't want to do it on day 1.
At least he was transparent in everything he was talking about.

Would I lynch the slot on day 2? Nope - have better alternatives
Would I lynch the slot on day 3? If there is no other alternative.

A prospective Day 3 where there is not a single scum lynch is the last possible time town will band together and say "hey let's lynch the Indi!". Just a smidge concerned because you basically didn't say anything about the proposition while I was throwing it out there . Window of opportunity is definitely gone btw, he is never getting lynched, hope it was worth it

[Loldebite]

This is needlessly mean tbh.

Mean yes, but I feel like ika yeets at least a town per game for similar reasons and it made me very mad

That being said I'm not sure ika was on the wagons I think of at EoD so maybe that was very unfair to think.

[Loldebite]

I'm of two minds on this question.

1st, PoD didn't show up in any carol, and DM did show up.
2nd, PoD seems to have grossly misrepresented the situation that I was in yesterday, in a way that struck me as particularly egregious.

In a situation where there's 1 town and 1 wolf between PoD and DM, I'd have to stick with the facts and do my best to ignore my bias and say that DM is more likely the wolf.

Not that you asked for this bit, but for what it's worth, I think kuti is more likely to be non-town than Dark Magician.

PoD & I have the same view of yesterday you, so I can't agree about 2).

IMO DM/PoD can very well be T/T it's even where my money's at atm

[Loldebite]

The dude complained nobody was lynching the indie, I offered the wagon to him and he declined me for a thunderdome with Mac.

Why do you think Kutiplz voting early on an obvious town reflects well on them? It's literally the opposite - players voting for him closer to end of day when other options start to close out have a better excuse. Doesn't mean they aren't scum, just that the explanation is more readily available.

I never said well, or at least that's definitely not what I intended. I meant it's not especially bad in that it's at least not opportunistic. It's definitely careless, tho, but so was my vote. I don't think kuti's vote is the worst looking in there. And it's mediocre at best.

[Stellaria]

IDC about you being mad or whatever, what I care about is that this hydra thing is pretty much all you've talked about. You were right, yes, but it was still perfectly irrelevant, as others & I have been telling you more than once. Anyway.

This is a lot more than PoD was willing to admit, I'll give you that. But it is relevant because it's a large part of where my read on kuti is from. 50 million points to the first person who can guess who the most voted for person is right now

[Ultra]

I never said well, or at least that's definitely not what I intended. I meant it's not especially bad in that it's at least not opportunistic. It's definitely careless, tho, but so was my vote. I don't think kuti's vote is the worst looking in there. And it's mediocre at best.

...what?

Kuti's vote placements, by their own admission were serving as counterwagon to DM/WISP, it's why they pivoted to mac and then back to banana

Where is this interpretation coming from? No matter how you spin it, even if you think she's town that's not a whoopsie, it was explicitly purposeful. Opportunistic by definition. I don't think you put any thought into this, which I'm going to note.

[Loldebite]

POD was talking to Stellaria about how a bunch of us were in his POE because Banana was 'an obvious PR' (because he slipped the role 'Ghost of Banana past') and we yeeted him. He was arguing that banana was an obvious PR as if we should've trusted his claim after all. Both Stellaria and I argued how we could've known and TRUSTED his claim especially when I don't know how banana plays (dont know about stellaria), and banana's trolling on day 1 made it just hard to know what is the truth and what is not? Perhaps players here who knows banana knows better, but I simply don't. That is why I did not trust the claim of a troll - as PoD describes. If that makes me the worst town player, then so be it.

And this is coming from a post flip discussion. NOBODY tried to actively advocate the votes away from Banana during EoD. Hindsight is 20/20 and anyone can be the best player in the game if they argue how they were right after someone flipped.

Sorry but when someone insists not one, not twice but THRICE for people not to claim in his name, you SHOULD pay attention. They were very likely PR from that alone, and since PoD had already outed their Ghost of Christmas Past hint they were pretty much obvious FMPOV yes, but that's beside the point. I'm not mad about you not trusting the claim or whatever, I'm mad because your entire reasoning for yeet them is "but they trolled " and that is just not good enough, sorry. There were people with a worse than trolly D1.

And I was away at EoD but were I not, I would've screamed, believe me. Glad that macdoug's alive tho, so I guess it turned out pretty good.

Anyway...

1) - I've been fine about pursuing Kutiplz. I stated as much. DM is second person to go after because I SL DM day 1 anyway, while I TR MM. I didn't explore Kutiplz here because my mind was more or less settled on lynching Kutiplz (hence my initial kuti vote) but rather wanted to explore into Dark and get some information about the slot by shading him hard. I do admit my mistake of misreading one of his posts.

2) - Why not? I wanted to hold off revealing the carol before I start asking questions because I wanted to read what they had to say in SoD. Aside form Kutiplz, I wasn't all the certain about Dark or MM regardless of my day 1 reads. So I waited, realise MM wasn't coming at that point in time, then revealed.

3) Not directed at me, but yes, w!ikarus could've easily forged the carol. But if your paranoia about my forged carol is justified, yet my paranoia about dark's SoD post possibily being tempered with is a ridiculous idea, then there is hypocrisy there. How (un)likely do you think we have 3 mediums?

1. If DM is the SECOND why are you voting HIM ????

2. What did you expect for town to gain by withholding ? If you didn't expect anything, that was just scummy. But I guess wanting to see "natural" SoD reactions is valid, that kinda answers 3.

3. I don't get your point at all. PoD called out bananacucho's role name pre-flip so it's quite obvious we have 2 at the very least.

[Loldebite]

Let me make it clear - I do not think Kuti is town - and I think the slot is either neutral or mafia.

Day 1 - I scumleaned DM. I townread MM.

I wanted to explore the possiblility of DM being mafia because while Kuti being non town satisfies the carol, there is also possibility another player is also non-town. Had it mentioned players like Kutiplz/Ultra/Mac - I wouldn't even go to the other ones.

Did you miss the part where we want martin's greencheck and for that we need a medium alive and for that we need to not yeet any of them, even if one is scum ? Voting DM is straight up a mechanical mistake and you're justifying it with "Kuti's scummier but I wanna explore DM" this makes little sense to me. It's not like DM's been coasting, they're active and engaging so what do you actually think voting will achieve ? Idk I don't follow

[Loldebite]

...what?

Kuti's vote placements, by their own admission were serving as counterwagon to DM/WISP, it's why they pivoted to mac and then back to banana

Where is this interpretation coming from? No matter how you spin it, even if you think she's town that's not a whoopsie, it was explicitly purposeful. Opportunistic by definition. I don't think you put any thought into this, which I'm going to note.

*rolls eye* every vote is opportunistic by definition, we're all trying to win the game. I mean it was not a "let's jump onto that train, it's fine" vote.

[Ultra]

Would be devilish if we lynched Ikarus here to confirm his info lol.

[Ultra]

*rolls eye* every vote is opportunistic by definition, we're all trying to win the game. I mean it was not a "let's jump onto that train, it's fine" vote.

I am outlining to you how their vote was exactly that, not even arguably since they admitted that's what they were doing you silly goose.

[Stellaria]

reading all of deb's posts and sitting here refreshing every like 5 seconds

like "yasss feed me more letters!! raahhhH!"

[Stellaria]

Did you miss the part where we want martin's greencheck and for that we need a medium alive and for that we need to not yeet any of them, even if one is scum ? Voting DM is straight up a mechanical mistake and you're justifying it with "Kuti's scummier but I wanna explore DM" this makes little sense to me. It's not like DM's been coasting, they're active and engaging so what do you actually think voting will achieve ? Idk I don't follow

this is something I wanna see Ikarus respond to

[Loldebite]

Still waiting for a bit more back & forth with ika to settle my read for good but stellaria hasn't gone AtE so I'm putting them town for now.

-vote kutiplz

I'm intrigued by macdoug's liking of MM's post, I disliked most of em. But I think I really suck at reading MM so that might be a good look ?...

[Loldebite]

I am outlining to you how their vote was exactly that, not even arguably since they admitted that's what they were doing you silly goose.

Omfg. "let's jump onto that ALREADY ESTABLISHED train". my bad.

[Loldebite]

reading all of deb's posts and sitting here refreshing every like 5 seconds

like "yasss feed me more letters!! raahhhH!"

Glad I'm making you happy UwU

I do be like that too

[Loldebite]

Maybe I'm putting far too much stock on being the first on a train

I'm probably doing that tbh

[Stellaria]

am I the only one refreshing constantly rn lmao this is like a chicken race to see who posts first

[Loldebite]

Wait why am I putting stock for initiating a train on a miselim am I fucking insane

[Loldebite]

am I the only one refreshing constantly rn lmao this is like a chicken race to see who posts first

No, so am I lol.

And btw yeah I'm completely fucking insane for thinking anything about that vote was fine, idk what went through my head.

hurry up and finish your aram ika I can't wait for your answer :'(

[Loldebite]

Okay I've definitely had too much tea. Guess I'll do something more active untill I cool down a bit brb

[Loldebite]

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah

why do I keep drinking stims I'm so dumb sorry body

[Stellaria]

okay i need to get some sleep, cya deb

@Wiisp @Kutiplz @Arrow

okay my shift is over, time for you guys to wakey wakey eggs n bakey tie your posts and not while nakey

[Stellaria]

and 50 thousand bonus points go to the first person to case wiisp since Dark Magician doesn't wanna do it

[Loldebite]

okay i need to get some sleep, cya deb

@Wiisp @Kutiplz @Arrow

okay my shift is over, time for you guys to wakey wakey eggs n bakey tie your posts and not while nakey

Gnight, have a good one

[ikarusdk]

Did you miss the part where we want martin's greencheck and for that we need a medium alive and for that we need to not yeet any of them, even if one is scum ? Voting DM is straight up a mechanical mistake and you're justifying it with "Kuti's scummier but I wanna explore DM" this makes little sense to me. It's not like DM's been coasting, they're active and engaging so what do you actually think voting will achieve ? Idk I don't follow

No I did not miss that part. I voted Kutiplz at SoD which reflects what I was thinking about the slot, then as I started to talk to DM, I voted DM because I wanted his raw reaction from my vote, to which T!DM's eyes would be outrageous, and it did get his reaction out of him.

I would like to say that while I disliked his tones, I do think they could be genuine which makes me feel better about DM even if I am still scumleaning him. The reason for still scumleaning DM is because while Stellaria (?) also had Kuti/DM/Pod in their poe when I asked, DM pretty much ignored all that and townread stellaria, whereas his initial reaction towards me did a 180 flip and immediately started pushing me, which was not surprising since people OMGUS all the time but did not think he would react that severely. I pointed it out that I maybe hit the sore spot (used that word to get more reaction), and he started tunneling about me till people intervened and pretty much said we are probably TvT.

And if we are AtEing, where was everyone else when Banana was on the chopping block? I was 1st or 2nd (i think kutiplz already had initial vote) to vote for banana and it had been like at elast 10 hours before EoD because I went to bed not long after my vote. I didn't see the counter argument about banana as I see now. Again, hindsight is 20/20 and this game is the perfect example of it.

[ikarusdk]

You guys could flip me, but when you realise I was town, you should reflect back on your reads and questions because my uninformed and unadulterated posts came straight from town perspective and if you are scumreading that, then you are either scum or not that great at reading pure thoughts.

[ikarusdk]

aTe end

[ikarusdk]

If we are looking at chopping one of banana voters, as banana said himself, we should look for those that hopped on the wagon late without giving any reasoning, rather than pushing someone who had reasons you don't agree with.

[ikarusdk]

You guys could flip me, but when you realise I was town, you should reflect back on your reads and questions because my uninformed and unadulterated posts came straight from town perspective and if you are scumreading that, then you are either scum or not that great at reading pure thoughts.

OR it just could be that I am really that bad at writing my thoughts as they happen here lmao

[ikarusdk]

But I won't give excuses for when loldebite said I always lynch a town for similar reasons lol. I do.

But I've caught scums for exactly the same reasons so.... it's more like 70-80% failure rate, not 100%

[Loldebite]

No I did not miss that part. I voted Kutiplz at SoD which reflects what I was thinking about the slot, then as I started to talk to DM, I voted DM because I wanted his raw reaction from my vote, to which T!DM's eyes would be outrageous, and it did get his reaction out of him.

I would like to say that while I disliked his tones, I do think they could be genuine which makes me feel better about DM even if I am still scumleaning him. The reason for still scumleaning DM is because while Stellaria (?) also had Kuti/DM/Pod in their poe when I asked, DM pretty much ignored all that and townread stellaria, whereas his initial reaction towards me did a 180 flip and immediately started pushing me, which was not surprising since people OMGUS all the time but did not think he would react that severely. I pointed it out that I maybe hit the sore spot (used that word to get more reaction), and he started tunneling about me till people intervened and pretty much said we are probably TvT.

And if we are AtEing, where was everyone else when Banana was on the chopping block? I was 1st or 2nd (i think kutiplz already had initial vote) to vote for banana and it had been like at elast 10 hours before EoD because I went to bed not long after my vote. I didn't see the counter argument about banana as I see now. Again, hindsight is 20/20 and this game is the perfect example of it.

So if I'm understanding you, you got the reaction you wanted and it satisfies you... but you're still voting him ?

I have no idea what that AtE bit is about. And I'm not saying that there was anyone even remotely defending banana lol, that was pretty much what I was pissed off at.

[Loldebite]

If we are looking at chopping one of banana voters, as banana said himself, we should look for those that hopped on the wagon late without giving any reasoning, rather than pushing someone who had reasons you don't agree with.

You had no real reason. But whatever.

But I won't give excuses for when loldebite said I always lynch a town for similar reasons lol. I do.

But I've caught scums for exactly the same reasons so.... it's more like 70-80% failure rate, not 100%

Hey I'm actually glad that it's not just in my head lol thanks

Anyway yeah so you're town, thus I don't doubt your carrol anymore. Vote kuti ty

[ikarusdk]

You had no real reason. But whatever.



Hey I'm actually glad that it's not just in my head lol thanks

Anyway yeah so you're town, thus I don't doubt your carrol anymore. Vote kuti ty

I actually forgot to switch my vote back.

-vote kutiplz

[ikarusdk]

You had no real reason. But whatever.



Hey I'm actually glad that it's not just in my head lol thanks

Anyway yeah so you're town, thus I don't doubt your carrol anymore. Vote kuti ty

in day 1 im the town's worst enemy, i probably caused like at least 5 towns dead on day 1 since the first time it happened.

[Loldebite]

in day 1 im the town's worst enemy, i probably caused like at least 5 towns dead on day 1 since the first time it happened.

well tbh I wouldn't count that against you since there's usually about twice as many townies as there are scum, so even with a rate fairly above 50-50 you'd still end up lynching a bunch of townies D1. And D1 is definitely the one day where reads are closest to pure rand IMO. So don't get too hard on yourself for that lol

But seeing two townies rip themselves apart for having different views of what the game should be is painful

[Achro]

But I won't give excuses for when loldebite said I always lynch a town for similar reasons lol. I do.

But I've caught scums for exactly the same reasons so.... it's more like 70-80% failure rate, not 100%

We call that 'rand' in success rate and not a valid thing to assess people. It means it isn't really alignment determining based on wolf kill fate.

[Achro]

Anyway someone throw out kuti team mate name choices or possible next steps if they flip town. My mark is an effort to be pro town ao want to hear where people are at.

[macdougall]

arrow prob

[Loldebite]

Yeah that reminds me that I don't think I've seen arrow make a post that didn't involve mechanics or the setup in some fashion, and I wanted to say that. It seems they're badly struggling to produce content, especially reads, but maybe I missed some crucial post of theirs.

As for 3rd mate, in no particular order :

wisp seems plausible FMPOV
same about MM but mac has a good opinion of him now and he's quite certainly better at reading him than I am so eh
Stellaria is possible but I feel pretty okay about them for now
And a scum medium is still possible so one of DM/PoD. ATM I'd lean heavily towards PoD because DM's in the carol, and PoD's faint cover of bananacucho could be scum trying to get trying town cred while keeping a safe distance, if that makes sense

Anyway that's where my thoughts are at for now

[Loldebite]

PoD's faint cover of bananacucho could be scum trying to get trying town cred while keeping a safe distance, if that makes sense

keeping his distance could've been crucial cuz he could've had bananacucho as 3P

[Loldebite]

3 mediums, one scum one town & one 3P seems a bit telegraphed but if from his POV he knew there was 1T and 1S he might've assumed as much I guess idk

[Loldebite]

oh and I've said "might've assume" but it's obvious only acknowleding it as a real possibility could've been enough

[Wiisp]

okay i need to get some sleep, cya deb

@Wiisp @Kutiplz @Arrow

okay my shift is over, time for you guys to wakey wakey eggs n bakey tie your posts and not while nakey

Kuti is dying and they pretty much want to die, which I'm fine with, so

[Arrow]

I love it how we all agree Achro is neutral because of his insistence despite no evidence for it.
I love it how we all refuse to go there.
Myself included.

Are you suggesting he's a wolf? I can't see his claim making sense from a Town perspective given how the town will generally eliminate Neutrals absent scum targets.

[Arrow]

Also people voting Mac was

myself, Dark Magician, MM, and banana

Three people werent on those trains:

Debbie/Arrow/Wiisp

Deb voted me and checked out; and I'm not really sure what he was trying to accomplish other than a possible miselim. If he was pressuring me, he'd need to stick around to get the response.

[Arrow]

Thanks for sharing all of this. I am at work so I can't do much right now but as I stated right through the EOD I felt like Banana was going to be a miselim and really didn't want him to go, and I also felt like you were being positioned earlier in the day as one.

I am very keen to just townlock you, and I am also pretty fine with townlocking PoD. I think Achro is genuine, and I agree with you on Ultra. I think Ika is obvious town. I also had Martin in my towncore and now he's dead confirmed town. Ironically of my towncore he was my least confident member. Now that honour belongs to Stellaria.

The read that has changed for me the most is my Wiisp scumread. I am now relatively confident it's town Wiisp. I think he was genuine in his frustration with Banana and others at EOD yesterday and his approach is very towny now.

POE

Arrow
Kuti
Marshall

POE?

[Arrow]

-vote Kutiplz

if town I'll be intensely surprised.

We've basically established Kuti is Jester, haven't we? Why would we bother voting them?

Caroler does not promise they're a wolf, just that they're Not Town.