S-FM 350: Chaotic Executioner - Page 31
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  1. ISO #1501

    Re: S-FM 350: Chaotic Executioner

    Quote Originally Posted by Gikkle View Post
    So you agree Stell is a wolf, then?
    I'll make this as clear as I can. FMPOV, I basically have a red check on you.
    Stellaria being a wolf is possible because they're pretty aloof and their reads are whack but they were also busy irl I think? If last game is anything to go by, I could just have a slight scumread on town!stell again but they haven't been nearly as.. IN MY OPINION* anti-town as last game.

    You're my go-to today Gikkle. If we're being played, I am sorry and I will put Stellaria under a microscope tomorrow.
    (๑˃̵ᴗ˂̵)ﻭ 레드벨벳 ! ! ٩(♡ε♡ )۶

  2. ISO #1502

  3. ISO #1503

    Re: S-FM 350: Chaotic Executioner

    Quote Originally Posted by Nancy Drew 39 View Post
    If it is genuine PR huntingís, Stella probably not CE.
    Right, CE would already know the roles so that'd be odd. Mafia or Town fishing out PRs with that strategy makes more sense.

    Town perspective is finding anti-slips that don't match flipped PRs.
    Mafia perspective is finding slips that match flipped PRs.
    (๑˃̵ᴗ˂̵)ﻭ 레드벨벳 ! ! ٩(♡ε♡ )۶

  4. ISO #1504

    Re: S-FM 350: Chaotic Executioner

    So for example Nancy:

    If Scum!Renegade said Sheriff, Doctor, Actress and none of those roles existed then town!Stellaria might consider Renegade scum because he provided nothing that matched.

    But honestly, the math for that strategy doesn't really work here for it to be effective at scumhunting even though the game was 5/13 roles PR. You'd need like a role madness for that to work.
    (๑˃̵ᴗ˂̵)ﻭ 레드벨벳 ! ! ٩(♡ε♡ )۶

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  8. ISO #1508

    Re: S-FM 350: Chaotic Executioner

    Quote Originally Posted by Frinckles View Post
    I'll make this as clear as I can. FMPOV, I basically have a red check on you.
    Stellaria being a wolf is possible because they're pretty aloof and their reads are whack but they were also busy irl I think? If last game is anything to go by, I could just have a slight scumread on town!stell again but they haven't been nearly as.. IN MY OPINION* anti-town as last game.

    You're my go-to today Gikkle. If we're being played, I am sorry and I will put Stellaria under a microscope tomorrow.
    But you do not have a red check on me. Anyone can see that. And your insistence that you do betrays an agenda.

    If you want to thunderdome so bad, I'll thunderdome. I know I'm town, so I'm not worried about losing a logical bout to you. I didn't think you were a wolf beforehand because I didn't really see too much benefit from a play like this, but obviously me getting voted out will benefit you in some way if you're so insistent in pushing this bad line of logic.

  9. ISO #1509

    Re: S-FM 350: Chaotic Executioner

    Quote Originally Posted by Gikkle View Post
    But you do not have a red check on me. Anyone can see that. And your insistence that you do betrays an agenda.

    If you want to thunderdome so bad, I'll thunderdome. I know I'm town, so I'm not worried about losing a logical bout to you. I didn't think you were a wolf beforehand because I didn't really see too much benefit from a play like this, but obviously me getting voted out will benefit you in some way if you're so insistent in pushing this bad line of logic.
    Basically; As in beyond a reasonable doubt at this point. There is only 1 person who hasn't claimed a manipulation role and regardless of their answer, there isn't a surefire way of knowing somebody here just isn't lying.

    This has benefitted you the most because now your team knows I can basically be killed without risk.
    (๑˃̵ᴗ˂̵)ﻭ 레드벨벳 ! ! ٩(♡ε♡ )۶

  10. ISO #1510

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  12. ISO #1512

    Re: S-FM 350: Chaotic Executioner

    Quote Originally Posted by Frinckles View Post
    Basically; As in beyond a reasonable doubt at this point. There is only 1 person who hasn't claimed a manipulation role and regardless of their answer, there isn't a surefire way of knowing somebody here just isn't lying.

    This has benefitted you the most because now your team knows I can basically be killed without risk.
    You can sound as confident as you want about your mechanical argument - the simple fact is that A) like you said, you don't know someone isn't lying about being vanilla, so there is a LOT of reasonable doubt, and B) I know I'm town and I know I'm telling the truth, so I know I have the advantage when it comes to any logical arguments.

    It'd be very easy for me to pick apart your ISO right now. Your greatest contribution to this game in terms of content has been being incredibly over confident about a bad piece of logic. You have contributed pretty much nothing else in terms of actual day play.
    No amount of bad mechanical arguments you may do can overshadow the fact that I know I am obvious town.

  13. ISO #1513

    Re: S-FM 350: Chaotic Executioner

    Quote Originally Posted by Frinckles View Post
    If you want to spew more for those three in the carol tho, ill take it.
    Ikarus is almost certainly town. I would be genuinely astonished if he could play like this as scum right after his KRC game. His thoughts are well thought out and reasonable, he has exhibited several instances of in the moment natural thinking (such as when talking about buster that one time), I see no indications of agenda (he seems open to having his mind changed, but not in like a "hedgey" sort of way). Last but not least, I don't think he claims jailor like he did there. I think he would have kept it hidden for longer if he was group scum.

    Loldebite's early game I didn't like but he's gotten a lot better. I've liked his reasoned approach to the me/you debate, and I also think a scum team with him on it would most likely kill a different target. I think there was an instance just a bit ago when he was catching up that was also pretty townie too - seemed like he was posting his genuine reactions as he was reading up, which imo is townie.

    Stellaria I initially TRed, but looking back idk why I did. Their content is pretty barren early game, and today they seemed to be fairly inconsistent and hedgey with their reads.

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    Re: S-FM 350: Chaotic Executioner

    Quote Originally Posted by Gikkle View Post
    You can sound as confident as you want about your mechanical argument - the simple fact is that A) like you said, you don't know someone isn't lying about being vanilla, so there is a LOT of reasonable doubt, and B) I know I'm town and I know I'm telling the truth, so I know I have the advantage when it comes to any logical arguments.

    It'd be very easy for me to pick apart your ISO right now. Your greatest contribution to this game in terms of content has been being incredibly over confident about a bad piece of logic. You have contributed pretty much nothing else in terms of actual day play.
    No amount of bad mechanical arguments you may do can overshadow the fact that I know I am obvious town.
    I thought you were done discussing this with me? Is the mask slipping because you know nobody is interested in or falling for your fake carol?

    By the way, projection is the worst kind of scumpaint because it's pretty obvious to anyone when you do it. You say I sound confident and then say how easy it would be for you to pick apart my ISO. Do it.

    Invoking 'logic' by stating something unprovable (and false) isn't convincing. It just tells me you are in a hole because you're not moving the needle anywhere and EOD is approaching. You never put yourself in my shoes here either, whereas I considered why I could be wrong about you.
    (๑˃̵ᴗ˂̵)ﻭ 레드벨벳 ! ! ٩(♡ε♡ )۶

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  17. ISO #1517

    Re: S-FM 350: Chaotic Executioner

    Quote Originally Posted by Gikkle View Post
    You can sound as confident as you want about your mechanical argument - the simple fact is that A) like you said, you don't know someone isn't lying about being vanilla, so there is a LOT of reasonable doubt, and B) I know I'm town and I know I'm telling the truth, so I know I have the advantage when it comes to any logical arguments.

    It'd be very easy for me to pick apart your ISO right now. Your greatest contribution to this game in terms of content has been being incredibly over confident about a bad piece of logic. You have contributed pretty much nothing else in terms of actual day play.
    No amount of bad mechanical arguments you may do can overshadow the fact that I know I am obvious town.
    There's a tinfoil in my head rn that Martin/Frinckles are S/S and purposefully gave me the carol because they were intending on discrediting me. First thing Martin did today was call me CE. Frinckles agreed shortly after. Perhaps he always intended on CCing me (even if I had done it early in the day instead of missing it like I did, which is why Frinckles was going after me), and since Martin was jailed, he likely had a good idea of who to have Frinckles claim to have caroled instead of me, that way he could have an explanation for where the carol went without incriminating a mafia member.
    It's also possible that Frinckles just has a bus driver scum buddy and redirected Ikarus with me. But if mafia has a bus driver then Frinckles could also very well just be town. So.

  18. ISO #1518

    Re: S-FM 350: Chaotic Executioner

    Quote Originally Posted by Frinckles View Post
    I thought you were done discussing this with me? Is the mask slipping because you know nobody is interested in or falling for your fake carol?

    By the way, projection is the worst kind of scumpaint because it's pretty obvious to anyone when you do it. You say I sound confident and then say how easy it would be for you to pick apart my ISO. Do it.

    Invoking 'logic' by stating something unprovable (and false) isn't convincing. It just tells me you are in a hole because you're not moving the needle anywhere and EOD is approaching. You never put yourself in my shoes here either, whereas I considered why I could be wrong about you.
    I was done discussing you with you while I was looking Stellaria, which I did and ended up concluding they were probably scum.

    I say you're confident in something you shouldn't be. I am confident in something I have every right to be. There's a difference there.

    The only thing I would need to prove to call your logic bad logic is that there's a reasonable chance for there to be a redirector. Since there is a reasonable chance for it to exist and for it to have targeted two of the most prominent players in the game, pushing me solely based off of this (without using any dayplay) isn't something I consider townie.

    And as for that last part - please, don't try and change history lol. Literally this whole time I was trying to come up with an explanation where we were both town. I'm not the one being overly confident in something I shouldn't be.

  19. ISO #1519

    Re: S-FM 350: Chaotic Executioner

    Quote Originally Posted by Gikkle View Post
    I was done discussing you with you while I was looking Stellaria, which I did and ended up concluding they were probably scum.

    I say you're confident in something you shouldn't be. I am confident in something I have every right to be. There's a difference there.

    The only thing I would need to prove to call your logic bad logic is that there's a reasonable chance for there to be a redirector. Since there is a reasonable chance for it to exist and for it to have targeted two of the most prominent players in the game, pushing me solely based off of this (without using any dayplay) isn't something I consider townie.

    And as for that last part - please, don't try and change history lol. Literally this whole time I was trying to come up with an explanation where we were both town. I'm not the one being overly confident in something I shouldn't be.
    looking at stellaria*

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    Re: S-FM 350: Chaotic Executioner

    Quote Originally Posted by Gikkle View Post
    I was done discussing you with you while I was looking Stellaria, which I did and ended up concluding they were probably scum.

    I say you're confident in something you shouldn't be. I am confident in something I have every right to be. There's a difference there.

    The only thing I would need to prove to call your logic bad logic is that there's a reasonable chance for there to be a redirector. Since there is a reasonable chance for it to exist and for it to have targeted two of the most prominent players in the game, pushing me solely based off of this (without using any dayplay) isn't something I consider townie.

    And as for that last part - please, don't try and change history lol. Literally this whole time I was trying to come up with an explanation where we were both town. I'm not the one being overly confident in something I shouldn't be.
    Can you just pick a lane lmao. You won't dare to call me a scum caroler because we both know I'm not and it'd make no sense here.

    If you are town and think something is awry, okay. I dont blame you. Now put yourself in my shoes. We've ad nauseum'd the hell out of BD/Witch/illusionist.

    1. Yes somebody could be lying.
    2. Nobody has claimed to, which means if such a role exists it is specifically mafia.
    3. Renegade receiving a gun reduces the likelihood of illusionist imo.

    Even in a world where you're town, lynching you here fmpov is the best option because then we can figure out to a certain extent which manipulation role exists, if it does. Not only that, but the only way you'd receive my carol is if you were specifically not moving, which makes your slot expendable (no offense.) And you're providing some reads I think the town should take into the next day after I'm shot, particularly on Stellaria.

    We're not even close to mylo. There is no way in hell I do this as a wolf and everybody knows it. We can discuss this all day and night but I have to do what makes the most sense and that's lynching you here.
    (๑˃̵ᴗ˂̵)ﻭ 레드벨벳 ! ! ٩(♡ε♡ )۶

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    Re: S-FM 350: Chaotic Executioner

    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade View Post
    It still makes no sense why Maf!Gikkle would fake a carol like that halfway through the day. Who was your intended carol target Frinckles.
    Ikarus was Carol'd and he was apparently jailing Martin. And yes it makes perfect sense, I've gone over it multiple times.

    There was one thing I was wrong about though. Gikkle didn't HAVE to wait to see if anyone else claimed to have a carol. He could have added a fake carol regardless because claiming illusionist feedback would give him an out.
    (๑˃̵ᴗ˂̵)ﻭ 레드벨벳 ! ! ٩(♡ε♡ )۶

  33. ISO #1533

    Re: S-FM 350: Chaotic Executioner

    Seeing as Iím a VT and I have no use other than to vote, which I think I have who I wanna vote locked on, does anybody wanna hear a joke related to carols? Well, seeing as thereís a caroler, itís only fitting.
    Hello, it is me Jeremy, I am a total professional at SC2Mafia, trust me on that.

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  40. ISO #1540

    Re: S-FM 350: Chaotic Executioner

    Quote Originally Posted by Frinckles View Post
    I'm rethinking Caroler might actually be a good pick here for a guaranteed invest. It's the only thing on the roster that can scoop neutrals up with mafia in the carol. The caroler also gets a free red check on fake carols coming from somebody who isn't their target, and learns who is moving at night. If not, I say we go bomb.
    Note that he had this in his head at the beginning of the game. This shows that he could have planned this play, at the very least.


    Quote Originally Posted by Frinckles View Post
    Anyway imma d1 read this

    Italiano - town
    Renegade - neutral

    Bus - town
    Stell - town
    Loldebite - town

    EZ
    Quote Originally Posted by Frinckles View Post
    off of tone, im inclined to agree but he doesn't necessarily need to be mafia to say those kind of things. we have two neutrals as well. who was he in krc?
    Quote Originally Posted by Frinckles View Post
    trying to respond to all of your posts lmao



    italiano sounds town to me and to a lesser extent, loldebite. but you should know i never post lists and that list was 90% fake. it's my ninja way
    Quote Originally Posted by Frinckles View Post
    oh. i think i had panda marked as town right before i died so my meta read would be crap. anyway, i don't think we need to hunt neutrals either but the weird role suggestions probably would come from those slots. i don't even think wolves would have the balls to suggest something like gunsmith. on top of that, like i said about KRC; wolves will shoot and lynch eachother left and right. i don't wanna deal with that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Frinckles View Post
    well me and loldebite were shmoovin' on the role ideas.



    i was kind of more on the fence when italiano put this out because it's either a wolf projecting what wolves are thinking or legitimate concern about how they'd play. but im always thinking what wolves would be planning so i just marked them town. the mentor role vote was whack though. caroler is way better

    Quote Originally Posted by Frinckles View Post
    This feels like the towniest thing you've said. I like it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Frinckles View Post
    I'd be willing to vote Renegade here for getting ready to jump ship.
    Quote Originally Posted by Frinckles View Post
    Renegade, Auwt and maybe a wildcard between you/loldebite if you want a gun-to-head. I'm surprised Auwt hasn't dropped a vote at all.
    Quote Originally Posted by Frinckles View Post
    As far as Martin goes, he's sounds fine this game. And he sounds like he's taking it easy like he said he would.

    @ItalianoVD sorry I missed your question about Ren. If his meta is still the same, yeah he either gets frustrated or carefully (with partners around) when he rolls scum. When he's town he just plays like every doctor ever.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frinckles View Post
    Stop it, I'm convincing Auwt to vote you.
    Quote Originally Posted by Frinckles View Post
    You were giving me scumblinkskater vibes weirdly enough at #751 but I think you were having fun.
    Quote Originally Posted by Frinckles View Post
    I was planning on swapping to Renegade while ISOing two other slots I thought were quirky. We could go clem if all else fails because we'd atleast be able to read some ISOs if we get a carol.

    I am enjoying the back and forth from you and ikarus though because I kind of lost the context. At this point Ikarus, Auwt, Buster and somebody else have all been scumreading over apparent jokes and I lost the plot.
    These should be all of his more useful posts day 1? Excluding questions and NAI commentary. May have missed one or two minor posts, but this should be basically everything? Enough to give a good idea of how he was playing day 1, anyways.

    Actually looking at Frinckles day 1 posts as a whole, there's a lot of conclusions with very little reasoning. The only actual reasoning early on is his read on Italiano, and sort of on Renegade. The Italiano one isn't groundbreaking and wouldn't be hard to fake as a wolf - he basically just says "Italiano showed legit concern about how wolves would play", while at the same time not really committing to that read completely. It's a safe read, and the reasoning isn't really hard to fake.
    The only other time there's really a look into his reasoning is when he talks about Renegade, but it's a really brief thing where he just says that renegade was willing to jump ship (doesn't go into much depth with that, so it's not exactly hard to write as scum).

    Then there's these posts near the end of day 1:

    Quote Originally Posted by Frinckles View Post
    Not gonna lie, I've had barely skimmed over a majority of the posts between EOD1 + SOD2, so I went back and read up on some players. I apologize and you can hate me for basically retroactively making quick reads at EOD2. I gotta put in a new radiator soon after I took one out so ill rush.

    A lot of this is probably already pointed out by some players.

    The obvious thing standing out about Yoshida is the Old English Jester rhetoric. I'm less inclined to believe that's just a Jester having fun and more inclined to believe it's scum obfuscating the way they speak to get engaged in the game and brush off any cognitive dissonance. I've done it before as Mafia (Punchy) and some other random personality I invented when I rolled 3P; It's very helpful.

    The Gunsmith vote, I actually was inclined to give a pass to and say that it's just a fun thing to throw into a game, but if we're objectively talking about the most pro-town roles to select here (as many of us were) gunsmith is the last thing on the planet to add here. Also Yoshida never changed to another role after the fact.

    Yoshida/Ikarus is probably never W/W which makes me feel better about switching over to Yoshida and I've been digging Ikarus' responses to Loldebite a little. If Yoshida actually rolled Jester this game, I'd rather they get a win than us lynching an AFK clem jester.

    -vote yoshida



    ----

    Nancy Drew is still kind of null and is playing pretty safe. One of those slots to raise the bar on tomorrow; I'm guessing everyone else basically feels the same way.. and uhhhh clems basically is like nancy drew minus the playing part.
    ----

    Now I gotta iso Italiano and the other guy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Frinckles View Post
    oh yoshida can definitely be scum here. i just think he's gonna tell on his partners tomorrow and I've already got a list of who they might be.
    These posts give the most idea about what Frinckles is thinking. And it's notable that the reasons for voting Yoshida are basically just "he talks in a way that masks his tone" and "he voted for gunsmith"
    Which - neither are BAD points, but they are incredibly easy to come up with. He's stating facts - Yoshida did indeed vote for the gunsmith, and he is indeed talking weird. There's not really much personal analysis.

    Alone the above might be sufficient for your average player, but Frinckles' day 1 was so devoid of public reasoning that it's weird that the only time he posts his reasoning, it's reasoning that doesn't require much if any thinking on his part.

    Frinckles does talk more about his reasoning and thoughts today, but it's mostly just to push me in various forms, even before I claimed the carol. I'll go more over this later - I'm busy rn.

    I'm not gonna go so far as to definitively say this is scum - I've misvoted frinckles in the past for this kinda stuff iirc. But this combined with this overconfident push on me definitely doesn't inspire confidence.

  41. ISO #1541

    Re: S-FM 350: Chaotic Executioner

    Quote Originally Posted by Frinckles View Post
    Can you just pick a lane lmao. You won't dare to call me a scum caroler because we both know I'm not and it'd make no sense here.

    If you are town and think something is awry, okay. I dont blame you. Now put yourself in my shoes. We've ad nauseum'd the hell out of BD/Witch/illusionist.

    1. Yes somebody could be lying.
    2. Nobody has claimed to, which means if such a role exists it is specifically mafia.
    3. Renegade receiving a gun reduces the likelihood of illusionist imo.

    Even in a world where you're town, lynching you here fmpov is the best option because then we can figure out to a certain extent which manipulation role exists, if it does. Not only that, but the only way you'd receive my carol is if you were specifically not moving, which makes your slot expendable (no offense.) And you're providing some reads I think the town should take into the next day after I'm shot, particularly on Stellaria.

    We're not even close to mylo. There is no way in hell I do this as a wolf and everybody knows it. We can discuss this all day and night but I have to do what makes the most sense and that's lynching you here.
    I am absolutely suggesting you could be mafia caroler. I find it so hard to believe that you actually believe all of the stuff you're saying.

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    Re: S-FM 350: Chaotic Executioner

    Quote Originally Posted by Loldebite View Post
    I see many ways this day could be happening, most of which (in)appropriately paranoiac.

    1) Gikkle is Town V, Frinckles is Town C, and we have either a bus, a witch or an illusionist;
    2) Gikkle is Scum whatever, Finckles is Town C and Gikkle tried a gambit;
    3) Gikkle is Town V, Frinckles is Scum C and is lying about NOT visiting Gikkle for an easy lynch;
    4) Gikkle is Town V, Frinckles is Scum whatever and is lying about caroler to make everything go to shit;
    5) Gikkle is Town V, Frinckles is Town whatever and is lying about being Caroler to cover for him and is planning on "changing his mind" and fleshwagoning onto one of us in the carol later on;
    6) Gikkle is Scum V, Frinckles is Scum whatever and they are lying to try to lure the Caroler out.

    Of these 2) and 6) seem like the least likely, because I simply don't think either gambit is worth and I don't see either player as particularly fond of HIGH risk plays.

    Which makes me want to consider that Gikkle is town for the time being. Which implies the carol is real. Which implies that I've been betrayed by either Stellaria or Ika. Life fucking sucks.
    3/4/5) are all things you could summarize broadly as "Frinckles tried a gambit", aside from Town/Scum hypotheticals

    why do you summarize possible gambits as simply "tried a gambit" for Gikkle (point #2), and imply that Gikkle is doing a gambit only when Gikkle is scum, but when it comes to Frinckles you start pointing out individually different gambits and furthermore these gambits could be coming from either alignment of Frinckles?

    I'm ignoring #6 because 6 is just silly and hence not really even a consideration imo.
    A.K.A "That One Idiot"

  49. ISO #1549

    Re: S-FM 350: Chaotic Executioner

    Btw Gikkle, I reckon Frinckles almost always plays that early in early days and from my limited experience it's usually much more accurate to judge Frinckles from his D2+. Since regular D2 is D3 here, I think we should only consider what he's done today and that's unfortunately a rather sad display.

  50. ISO #1550

    Re: S-FM 350: Chaotic Executioner

    Quote Originally Posted by Loldebite View Post
    You read that all wrong lol wtf ?


    This means that you wouldn't hear the carol. And if your jailed target was targeted by the caroler, then you STILL wouldn't hear the carol.
    his point is that yes that is true and therefore any claim about carol feedback would either be an intentional lie, illusionist feedback, or redirection
    A.K.A "That One Idiot"

 

 

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