S-FM 350: Chaotic Executioner

[Gikkle]

Ikarus could be your partner as well. With scum!Martin on your team you would have had to risk that his assumptions on who jailer was were correct.. which ngl Martin is pretty good at syntax/rhetoric reading. But even that seems weird.

I already said I'd humor the fake carol because I think if I were pulling off that gambit I'd throw a teammate in it for plausible deniability.

One last question though. I'm pretty sure you're just wolf here but if you were town and had received a carol including your name, would you include your own name or replace it with someone else? After that you can ignore me all day.

I'd probably replace it with someone else tbh

[Gikkle]

I'd probably replace it with someone else tbh

Oh wait I misread that
No if I was town I wouldn't

[yoshida]

If the bomber is mafia and Ren is CE with a day gun then we are screwed hard. I wouldn't know if we were to vote CE or mafia at that point.

fuuuuuuck @Renegade don't shoot

Correction: I wouldn't know if we were to have enough time to vote out remaining two mafia.

[Renegade]

If the bomber is mafia and Ren is CE with a day gun then we are screwed hard. I wouldn't know if we were to vote CE or mafia at that point.

fuuuuuuck @Renegade don't shoot

I'm only shooting if there is a consensus.

[Frinckles]

It would mean Frinckles is just straight up lying though

wat

[Frinckles]

I'd probably replace it with someone else tbh

Oh wait I misread that
No if I was town I wouldn't

Aaaaalright. No need to respond to my latest 'wat'. I think we're just gonna have to play this out.

[Frinckles]

lmao I actually liked your first answer more.

[Gikkle]

lmao I actually liked your first answer more.

You liked the answer where I play anti-town?

[yoshida]

The only way S!Yoshida ever kills this is with more weighty interests in their other two partners. Yoshida himself should have no interest in killing this.

Italiano NK seems like the optimal choice for any player if they were to be mafia in this game. I'm having difficulty understanding Gikkle's logic, but it could be that they are overthinking. I do believe scum tend to talk about what the NK meant more than others just to appear like they are trying to solve. -1

It's like, posts like these are the reason I'm not willing to lay off you. This is what I mean by an agenda. You had an argument with both yoshida and Ika, and neither of those reads developed or changed? And then you end up TRing people like Auwt. I don't see where you're coming from at all Loldebite. Ikarus just seems like obvious town to me, and I won't say there's no way I'm wrong, but I have yet to seen a good case against him as to why he's not.

Gikkles had a valid reason to vote Auwt and stay on it till the end. While this part could be interpreted as a slip I still don't think it is enough evidence. It feels too risky coming from CE. They voted for Auwt long before my wagon had six people on it. Their reasoning seemed justified to me since I was melding with him on Auwt and loldebite. If I were a TPR and Gikkle was the CE, they wouldn't post their uncertainty about my wagon at the end of the day. It didn't make sense unless they wanted to appear goofy, but I doubt that. Even if that were the case, they had prior knowledge that both Auwt and I were non-mafia, or they were genuinely town-aligned and trying to solve. On the other hand, they had no reason to get involved this much as mafia. Considering a world without Witch and BD, with the two carol related claims, it only makes sense to eliminate between Frinckles and Gikkle. I don't see that coming from CE as it is too risky play. If I am right, Frinckles is also non-CE and is in the same bag with Gikkle be it W/W or W/V. As for Gikkle potential partners, Nancy is my number one suspect. I can't see a Gikkle/Ikarus/Martin universe.

Ikarus has a chance to prove they are town tonight. I don't think scum team would FPS claim 2 roles and involve all 3 members to it. It makes no sense.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I’ll be on later to respond to some posts but does anyone else think that Ren being gunsmith makes Buster more likely to be CE considering how hard he was pushing him all d2?

[Gikkle]

Italiano NK seems like the optimal choice for any player if they were to be mafia in this game. I'm having difficulty understanding Gikkle's logic, but it could be that they are overthinking. I do believe scum tend to talk about what the NK meant more than others just to appear like they are trying to solve. -1

Gikkles had a valid reason to vote Auwt and stay on it till the end. While this part could be interpreted as a slip I still don't think it is enough evidence. It feels too risky coming from CE. They voted for Auwt long before my wagon had six people on it. Their reasoning seemed justified to me since I was melding with him on Auwt and loldebite. If I were a TPR and Gikkle was the CE, they wouldn't post their uncertainty about my wagon at the end of the day. It didn't make sense unless they wanted to appear goofy, but I doubt that. Even if that were the case, they had prior knowledge that both Auwt and I were non-mafia, or they were genuinely town-aligned and trying to solve. On the other hand, they had no reason to get involved this much as mafia. Considering a world without Witch and BD, with the two carol related claims, it only makes sense to eliminate between Frinckles and Gikkle. I don't see that coming from CE as it is too risky play. If I am right, Frinckles is also non-CE and is in the same bag with Gikkle be it W/W or W/V. As for Gikkle potential partners, Nancy is my number one suspect. I can't see a Gikkle/Ikarus/Martin universe.

Ikarus has a chance to prove they are town tonight. I don't think scum team would FPS claim 2 roles and involve all 3 members to it. It makes no sense.

Wrt to the NK - I pretty much always do NKA in my town games. It's what I'm good at.
I won't say my logic is impeccable in this particular instance, as I didn't put nearly as much thought into it as I normally do, but Italiano is not the optimal kill for everyone. Personally, I wouldn't have killed him. I probably would have killed Frinckles or Martin since I know they are good players (and both were being antagonistic towards me). Or Nancy, since they are the one pushing T!Italiano the hardest, and Nancy was TRed by more people than Italiano iirc.

It's something I would have to analyze more closely to be able to come to a solid conclusion, and I unfortunately haven't had the chance to.

[Frinckles]

You liked the answer where I play anti-town?

Town with a carol (with their name in it) should usually replace their name imo. That's how I'd play it. It's not anti-town because fypov you would be town and thus an unnecessary component of the carol, meaning you could swap out a name for higher accuracy of finding scum. Scum receiving a carol with their name in it would imo NOT replace their name (but would replace teammates) because it makes them 'appear' more towny and open. It also lets them be directly combative with the other two players afterwards.

That's how I think atleast.

[Frinckles]

It's like a weird wifom, but generally it's harmless. Unless somebody else has a role like journalist and knows you'd be lying, it's never anti-town for a town to do.

[Gikkle]

Town with a carol (with their name in it) should usually replace their name imo. That's how I'd play it. It's not anti-town because fypov you would be town and thus an unnecessary component of the carol, meaning you could swap out a name for higher accuracy of finding scum. Scum receiving a carol with their name in it would imo NOT replace their name (but would replace teammates) because it makes them 'appear' more towny and open. It also lets them be directly combative with the other two players afterwards.

That's how I think atleast.

If you replace the name, it transforms the pool to a 4 person pool rather than a 3 person pool. In every case with a caroler, the person receiving the carol is already technically part of the pool. By replacing their name, they don't remove themselves as a scum option, they just add another, which just creates more confusion.

[yoshida]

I'm only shooting if there is a consensus.

In that case, I vote for you to shoot.

You shooting will prove the existence of Gunsmith.

It will give you town points.

There are other PR's out there so Caroler dying for this isn't a big loss. You not shooting and a miselim today will put town in a very bad spot.

Both are legit good flips. Frinckles mafia flip increases my confidence in Martin or Buster being mafia. Gikkle flipping mafia will make me look at Nancy next.

I don't think they are bomber.

[Frinckles]

I’ll be on later to respond to some posts but does anyone else think that Ren being gunsmith makes Buster more likely to be CE considering how hard he was pushing him all d2?

ren didn't claim gunsmith, he claimed that he received a gun.

also why would CE Buster ever give the person pushing him a role? nothing you just said makes sense nancy

[Gikkle]

In that case, I vote for you to shoot.

You shooting will prove the existence of Gunsmith.

It will give you town points.

There are other PR's out there so Caroler dying for this isn't a big loss. You not shooting and a miselim today will put town in a very bad spot.

Both are legit good flips. Frinckles mafia flip increases my confidence in Martin or Buster being mafia. Gikkle flipping mafia will make me look at Nancy next.

I don't think they are bomber.

Why would nancy be scum if I am?

[Renegade]

I’ll be on later to respond to some posts but does anyone else think that Ren being gunsmith makes Buster more likely to be CE considering how hard he was pushing him all d2?

To be clear, I received a gun. I am not claiming gunsmith, or any other role.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Wrt to the NK - I pretty much always do NKA in my town games. It's what I'm good at.
I won't say my logic is impeccable in this particular instance, as I didn't put nearly as much thought into it as I normally do, but Italiano is not the optimal kill for everyone. Personally, I wouldn't have killed him. I probably would have killed Frinckles or Martin since I know they are good players (and both were being antagonistic towards me). Or Nancy, since they are the one pushing T!Italiano the hardest, and Nancy was TRed by more people than Italiano iirc.

It's something I would have to analyze more closely to be able to come to a solid conclusion, and I unfortunately haven't had the chance to.

Are you still arguing this? No one would have had any idea me and Italiano even knew each other had I not said anything. Italiano was hard tr me as were a lot of people and I think - no offence intented hete - but blatant logic should scream at anyone town here that it makes absolutely no sense for hypothetical scum!me to have killed him. I don’t gaf about any insane theories to the contrary. I never kill Italiano herd, not when he’s hard tr me and certainly not on n2 right after I made it known to everyone that we know each other. And as far as my correct read ok him. I’m primarily a meta reader, so that’s why I’m struggling a bit in this game, so of course it makes total logical sense that Italiano and I would read each other correctly.

[Frinckles]

If you replace the name, it transforms the pool to a 4 person pool rather than a 3 person pool. In every case with a caroler, the person receiving the carol is already technically part of the pool. By replacing their name, they don't remove themselves as a scum option, they just add another, which just creates more confusion.

I see your point. You're right that it doesn't technically remove the town player from the pool, but it does in fact add another possible scum to the pool. I think perhaps that scenario just comes down to how confident a town player is in their ability to come across as town and what they can do with the information themselves.

[Nancy Drew 39]

ren didn't claim gunsmith, he claimed that he received a gun.

also why would CE Buster ever give the person pushing him a role? nothing you just said makes sense nancy

Yeah, probably right. I think there’s a decent chance he could be scum here though based on that death tunnel and pretty much flaking.

I guess my thinking was that if Buster were CE, giving Ren - who wasn’t suspicious of him - such a role could make people think that.

Anyway, just a tin foil.

[Frinckles]

Yeah, probably right. I think there’s a decent chance he could be scum here though based on that death tunnel and pretty much flaking.

I guess my thinking was that if Buster were CE, giving Ren - who wasn’t suspicious of him - such a role could make people think that.

Anyway, just a tin foil.

okay. if you're town i need you to focus when you're able to so you can help us win

just your honest thoughts on ikarus/stellaria/loldebite and which one is scum if one HAD to be

then your thoughts on me and gikkle (if you're all caught up on this situation.)

[Frinckles]

if you're busy just please try to do that in the next 3~ hours preferably.

annnd im gonna guess you aren't a BD/Witch/Illusionist by chance.

[Gikkle]

Are you still arguing this? No one would have had any idea me and Italiano even knew each other had I not said anything. Italiano was hard tr me as were a lot of people and I think - no offence intented hete - but blatant logic should scream at anyone town here that it makes absolutely no sense for hypothetical scum!me to have killed him. I don’t gaf about any insane theories to the contrary. I never kill Italiano herd, not when he’s hard tr me and certainly not on n2 right after I made it known to everyone that we know each other. And as far as my correct read ok him. I’m primarily a meta reader, so that’s why I’m struggling a bit in this game, so of course it makes total logical sense that Italiano and I would read each other correctly.

I was responding to Yoshida saying my logic about the NK was wolfy. Didn't really have anything to do with you - I've dropped my argument against you.

[yoshida]

Why would nancy be scum if I am?

I will dip soon and won't be here until the final minutes of EOD. I can get into that later.

[yoshida]

Wrt to the NK - I pretty much always do NKA in my town games. It's what I'm good at.
I won't say my logic is impeccable in this particular instance, as I didn't put nearly as much thought into it as I normally do, but Italiano is not the optimal kill for everyone. Personally, I wouldn't have killed him. I probably would have killed Frinckles or Martin since I know they are good players (and both were being antagonistic towards me). Or Nancy, since they are the one pushing T!Italiano the hardest, and Nancy was TRed by more people than Italiano iirc.

It's something I would have to analyze more closely to be able to come to a solid conclusion, and I unfortunately haven't had the chance to.

I don't think Italiano kill was to create chaos between us but maybe I'm wrong. I like to believe strong town players usually end up dying at night.

Fear kill on Frinckles/Martin makes sense. I also think one of them rolling scum is a high probability in this game for balance. Buster was only following orders the entire time.

[powerofdeath]

I said before but in an event that BusterCannon does not post, I will find a replacement and extend day by 24 hours to give time for the replacement to catchup and make posts. I may also will replace Jeremiah as well. I pinged both of them on the site and on Discord.

[yoshida]

I said before but in an event that BusterCannon does not post, I will find a replacement and extend day by 24 hours to give time for the replacement to catchup and make posts. I may also will replace Jeremiah as well. I pinged both of them on the site and on Discord.

In that case

-vote Frinckles

I don't think I can make it to EOD, no promises.

I will leave my vote in case Renegade decides to int by not shooting or Gikkle flips town.

If the host extends the game then that's cool too.

glgl

[Nancy Drew 39]

if you're busy just please try to do that in the next 3~ hours preferably.

annnd im gonna guess you aren't a BD/Witch/Illusionist by chance.

No, I’m vt. I think based purely on gut, I tend to agree with Ren that with those kinds of roles makes it more likely than not that both you and Gikkles could be telling the truth.

Wrt Stellaria, how do you read his fakeclaim proposal on d2?

I may be of course biased but I thought Ikarus’ read on me seemed fair. It didn’t read as agenday to me and didn’t like Lol’s reaction to it.

[Frinckles]

In that case

-vote Frinckles

I don't think I can make it to EOD, no promises.

I will leave my vote in case Renegade decides to int by not shooting or Gikkle flips town.

If the host extends the game then that's cool too.

glgl

You had me questioning gikkle + yoshida world for a minute.

Either way, respectable vote.

[Gikkle]

In that case

-vote Frinckles

I don't think I can make it to EOD, no promises.

I will leave my vote in case Renegade decides to int by not shooting or Gikkle flips town.

If the host extends the game then that's cool too.

glgl

I do not think Renegade should shoot between me and Frinckles as there is still a very good chance Frinckles is town here and there was indeed a redirect.
If renegade doesn't believe my carol, then he can shoot someone else outside the carol. Maybe Jeremiah, to resolve that slot.

[Frinckles]

No, I’m vt. I think based purely on gut, I tend to agree with Ren that with those kinds of roles makes it more likely than not that both you and Gikkles could be telling the truth.

Wrt Stellaria, how do you read his fakeclaim proposal on d2?

I may be of course biased but I thought Ikarus’ read on me seemed fair. It didn’t read as agenday to me and didn’t like Lol’s reaction to it.

Can you link it please?

[JeremiahSablan]

Alright. I am back from taking notes and reading logs. I have two people I’ve been keeping my eyes on, which one is kinda quiet so they may or may not be AFK. I’ll lay them off from my susp list. Now, fellow Townies, let’s get to voting.

[Frinckles]

Alright. I am back from taking notes and reading logs. I have two people I’ve been keeping my eyes on, which one is kinda quiet so they may or may not be AFK. I’ll lay them off from my susp list. Now, fellow Townies, let’s get to voting.

Are you a witch/illusionist or bus driver?

[Gikkle]

Note regarding stellaria:
Very boring day 2(1?). Not sure why I TRed that yesterday tbh. Like, no actual thoughts from Stell.

Hi, I'm awake again. Cleaning the house but I'm not too busy to not fully catch up. I've read a few of the posts since I last posted and I'll provide my thoughts.

More unpairing action between Deb and Ikarus. Given my current thoughts on Deb (Im not fully caught up yet), I don't think both of them are Mafia.

I think I missed why Gikkle could be Chaotic Executioner. But given what we know, I do think it's good to hunt the chaotic executioner. If I'm gathering everything correctly, then limming the CE is going to block the Mafia Nightkill. It's important we do that before Mafia can kill CE so that they don't get an extra kill. If we lim, then whatever power roles we do have get an extra day to do whatever they need to do. Like, we get an extra day to get Caroler results. And with Mafia not killing on that night, then only power roles who perform their actions wont get a result. At that point, that seems worth it to me. However, I also think we shouldn't just drop everything we're doing to hunt the CE. So if we're not reasonably sure about Gikkle being CE, then maybe we should focus on other things.

And since you asked Deb, the Rule of 3 in spec chat basically goes something like this; someone who calls out exactly three names in a post is suspicious. Maybe I'm bad and not understanding it fully, but it's not that serious of a scumtell. Still though, I think the psychology behind it is that it's the easiest number to come to and the Mafia are just going to go with whatever is easiest for them when making fake reads. I don't really know that it could be considered a perspective slip. Though, if you think that all three of the names Renegade left there are town, then that is pretty interesting. Renegade seemed independently scummy. So I'll revisit that idea when I get to catching up.

Speaking of, when I said day, I meant a real life day.

Anyways, I'll start the page review process again later today (irl). But in any case, unless I've missed something drastic (in which case, tell me) then I suppose my current scumreads still hold up.

Scum Leans (least to most likely

Gikkle
Deb
Frinckles
Buster

Scum Reads

Renegade
Ikarusdk

Alright well then I'm just right.

-vote ikarusdk

At this point, I don't care if I die. But it's got to be Ikarus. I'm just gonna call Ikarus and myself the PoE at this point because I don't think it can be deb.

Deb is in scum leans but he doesn't think it can be deb?
Weird inconsistency there.

[Frinckles]

Gikkle if I was manipulated somehow I will turbo stellaria with you. Deal?

[Nancy Drew 39]

8. Auwt
4. BusterCannon
13. Clemensthelemon
7. Frinckles
2. Gikkle
11. ikarusdk

5. ItalianoVD

3. Loldebite
9. MartinGG99
6. Nancy Drew 39
12. Renegade
1. Stellaria
10. yoshida

@Loldebite @MartinGG99 @Nancy Drew 39 @Renegade @yoshida yall down to be in a squad together? i'll call it XYZ squad because we're the later half of the list alphabetically

Not the post I was looking for but Stellaria, why those specific names?

[JeremiahSablan]

I wish

[Nancy Drew 39]

Each person posts three roles.

Even people without roles so far.

The people with roles CAN choose to put their real role among the three.

They do not have to.

We carry on the game keeping up with these claims, a la if one of the claims was Caroler, we provide feedback for that claim, even if fake, etc.

Found it!

[Frinckles]

Either stell is a wolf or is having KRC reads (still love ya tho <3 )

[JeremiahSablan]

I think I know who I wanna vote now, it’s -vote then # right? It’s been quite a while since I’ve played forum mafia

[Gikkle]

Gikkle if I was manipulated somehow I will turbo stellaria with you. Deal?

I mean, how are we gonna prove you were manipulated

[Nancy Drew 39]

Either stell is a wolf or is having KRC reads (still love ya tho <3 )

What is KRC?

[Frinckles]

Found it!

Looks like hardcore PR hunting but I think it could be from any alignment. Any PR flips that match could allow us to infer somebody slipping.

I think I know who I wanna vote now, it’s -vote then # right? It’s been quite a while since I’ve played forum mafia

Use [vote]NAME[/vote ] without the space between 'e' and ']'.

[Frinckles]

I mean, how are we gonna prove you were manipulated

I was giving you the benefit of the doubt and hoping Jeremiah would say he manipulated. There's just Buster left afaik.

[Frinckles]

What is KRC?

It was the last game where Stell had some silly reads but turned out to be town.

[Gikkle]

What is KRC?

It's a game hosted on here that's anonymous (well semi anonymous in the latest iteration) where everyone submits their own custom roles, and those custom roles are randomly given to other players. Basically, the role list is made up of player designed roles. You can't get your own role, typically.
Also you have to draw your pfp

[Gikkle]

Either stell is a wolf or is having KRC reads (still love ya tho <3 )

So you agree Stell is a wolf, then?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Looks like hardcore PR hunting but I think it could be from any alignment. Any PR flips that match could allow us to infer somebody slipping.



Use [vote]NAME[/vote ] without the space between 'e' and ']'.

If it is genuine PR hunting’s, Stella probably not CE.

[JeremiahSablan]

Kinda between Gik and Ira on this one.