@MartinGG99 , you need to revote Ikarusdk.
I don’t know understand how Martin’s Ikarus’ vote got changed to Gikkle. Maybe Gikkle has some secret power from beyond the grave.
I must leave now but be back in 30 min or 1 hour to catch up if there are more stuff u wanna discuss but I'm working atm. (well that's at least what I am pretending to do)
I fully expected you to die as did most of the playerlist including Ren. That’s why he pushed you for your jk confirmation.
Yes, you keep saying that but I’m saying your argument doesn’t support frame. It would support you being nk’d.
As the last living pr, I expected you to die since Lol was the previous night’s nk.
I’m sorry but I don’t see how Martin saying you’re an alignment cop supports a frame up of you. Like I pointed out, it could support an nk of you.
Also, Martin hasn’t made any attempt to make this argument. No one did in fact, including Zen. Martin was leaning it towards it being me (in case of Zen townflip) until it was beyond obvious I was absolutely serious about being jk’d.
Underlined: Ikarus' decision, if town, has no knowledge of you being scum. So it has nothing to do with my point.
I don't know who "scum!mr" refers to.
That was exactly my point.Iow, I would not have tried to lock that jn as scum for very obvious reasons.
But I've thought about the whole argument more since then and have come to a conclusion that its a misplay both by a mafia Ikarus and town Ikarus to have held his word and jailed you. My original argument was that it was mafia-indicative, but now I feel its more non-alignment-indicative. Details in the spoiler if you want, but if mech is not something you're good at then it may be best not to read it as overall the point is kinda minor if its just "oh Ikarus' jail of you is NAI / doesn't show him to be town".
Spoiler : details :
A.K.A "That One Idiot"
My response to and comment on that was that I disagreed with Ikarus' assertion about the ren kill being a frame on him. Hence when I posted my own theory about the Ren kill ironically being used to frame me while opening you + zenon more for elimination. Him making the argument that the ren kill was to frame him is a designed argument for the hypothetical where I push him the day after Ren was killed. I think Ikarus even specifically notes how I don't pressure him at all after it. He was expecting me to pressure him, and perhaps one of the better way to be defensive about it is to claim being framed the same time someone is going to suddenly start pressuring you.
He just didn't expect that I would more or less disbelieve the idea that Ikarus was still town and wouldn't poke him.
A.K.A "That One Idiot"
“scum!mr” was a typo. scum!me.
I read your post as implying you would vote me out over Ikarus, which if you’re town here, we lose. So that kind’ve freaked me out.
@MartinGG99 you need to revote.
Zenon's play didn't make much sense, and I agree with that. I was tempted to shift things around but in a game around 1/4th of a year ago I absolutely threw the game as town by voting out my TR in a f3 over a TMI suspicion early in the game. The post-game of it was a fair bit toxic, I'm half-sure that the player I voted out is determined to never play with me any time soon, and I don't want to repeat that. So for my own concerns of the game, I wasn't very willing to explore outside of Zenon being scum unless there was more evidence that I saw supporting that other than Zenon's behavior.
A.K.A "That One Idiot"
Yep, I'm aware my vote is wrong.
In all likelihood I'll have to fix it again in the future. It's caused whenever I try to manually create chains of quotes like how it happens on MU. The vote-bot here doesn't like it when I do that and one of the quotes has a vote in it.
-vote ikarusdk
A.K.A "That One Idiot"
If it is Ikarus and I never checked the vc and town lost due to a bizarro glitch, that would be absolutely wild.
Sorry if it seems like I'm slacking, but I just didn't have much time. The people I play with have very limited schedules, so the past 8 hours or so was the only time I could play some Heroes Hour with them. Also didn't want to post a lot before that in case you had limited time as well to catch-up and do your own due diligence.
Right now though I literally have nothing to do other than to exist in IRL for the remaining time left in this day phase.
I'll be getting to everything I said I would, including picking whatever quotes I find relevant in Stellaria's ISO that support me.
A.K.A "That One Idiot"
Yeah, I was leaning to it being Ikarus near EoD yesterday but wasn’t confident on it and his miselim would have been the worst for town.
I would say that I’d probably be hard tr Ikarus had I been jk’d before Ren nk that is until he said that you killed Ren because of his reads but then said he still tr you more. I don’t think that makes logical sense but if scum, he used the chat extremely well.
And now he posts your post as him bring AC as a reason for you to frame him because he didn’t die. That post is a much better argument for you to have nk’d him not frame him.
I think he’s upset because he got essentially screwed by mech, so since this is still plurality and we still have another day. I should probably vote since afaik, votes unlike on MU aren’t locked. And I wouldn’t want to lose the game in case my internet suddenly went out.
@powerofdeath , it’s still plurality and votes aren’t locked, correct?
I don’t want to lock in my vote until it’s confirmed that it isn’t until EoD tomorrow night but voting Ikarus is where I’m currently leaning.
I just don’t see why you nk Ren > Ikarus.
I think if Ikarus is scum, scumteam misplayed because it would be a lot easier for say Frinckles or Stellaria to explain not being the nk over Ren. Frinckles - being bomb of course and Stellaria being vanilla.
-vote Ikarusdk
This vote isn’t locked unless my internet dies or something but a no lim today is an autowin for scum but if this was MU or majority lim, I might take that chance and wait.
reading back in Ikar's ISO, it does seem fairly accurate that Ikarus wanted to save Yoshida and actively advocated for that approach of jailing him after Stellaria got shot
I voted Yoshida out because my main worldview was that Yoshida was the 3rd scum. With Stellaria and Frinckles flipped mafia, it seemed to click perfectly that Yoshida was scum based on his play during the Frinckles vs Gikkle battle. Recognizing bomb exists, asking people to shoot the bomb, while Yoshida was (if mafia) a 2nd mafia PR --- giving mafia reason to push Gikkle into the abyss if they want to. The mafia play (wherein the mafia were Frinckles/Yoshida/Stellaria) during that day made a lot of sense if they didn't expect Gikkle to reveal who were the PRs.
If I were mafia though I probably join the "let's white knight Yoshida" group and then kill him as soon as I can after killing a town!Ikarus. Even if I didn't prioritize killing him, It would be quite unlikely, but not impossible, that I would get shot by one of the gifted guns imo.
A.K.A "That One Idiot"
I don't mind losing the game, because I tried and myabe was not good enough.
[Ate] But I am upset that you just simply refuses to see the truth no matter how evident it is. Yoshida was right. Nancy, I don't think you are the type to have a quite an open mind about things. Once you make up your mind, you simply tunnel too hard into it and everything else becomes blank. You don't read and try to see where I am coming from. You keep asking the same questions I take my time to answer, and in the end you refuse to take them because you 'disagree'. This is why yoshida was angry and now that I'm on the receiving end, I can tell where he was coming from. Hope you can learn a few things after this game ends. I am all finished now. I think it's pointless for me to continue because nothing I say will get into you.[/AtE]
At least I won't be receiving any hard criticism in any future games with Martin.
Honestly though, just park a vote here and ask the host to enable hammer. If the host wants to then he will.
See you both in the post game chat.
-vote powerofdeath
Not sure if this is allowed, but I am done.
If the other also agree, would you consider enabling hammer please.
oops
@powerofdeath
-vote MartinGG99
Yup. Probably. If he had said he would JK you but then actually JK'ed me, there would be a preety significant chance that I vote you out.
I'm sorry if you find that offensive. Part of it is as I've said recently, I have a tendency of not going back on my reads late-game unless there's good substantiation for it. I would be quite disappointed myself if you were scum and I voted out Ikar, and it probably would offend Ikar for me to do that in a F3.
Come to think of it though, you probably would've brought up the Ren kill in which case that kill does make almost the least amount of sense for someone like you to make.
A.K.A "That One Idiot"
A.K.A "That One Idiot"
I've read everything up to this point.
Off to reading ISOs more.
A.K.A "That One Idiot"
So my being wrong about Yoshida makes me also wrong on you? What “evidence”?
The evidence points to it being you and if there’s any either pointing away from it being you or towards Martin, you haven’t provided it.
AtE is meaningless here because pretty much all of your arguments amount to: either this nia thing or even town indicative thing point to Martin being scum because you say so.
Change my mind.
Aldo, Martin is scanning the game for other players’ posts and your single post that you referenced, points away from your frame theory and away from Martin being scum.
Stellaria never mentions me, and in the few cases they do, they appear to be discussing other people's reads of me.
I personally don't find this AI in any which way in other games. Honestly I tend to find it a bit scum indicative as it could be TMI that I am wolf and not a threat to them.
But that's just how they've handled me. I don't really know why they never really looked into or spoke about me. Maybe they wanted me to be killed at some point during the night and that they wouldn't have to actually read me.
A.K.A "That One Idiot"
You refuse to take in new info and alter your view because you already made up your mind. I've already presented number of 'evidence' but look where it got me. Why would I bother anymore. Look everything you have posted today. It's been a repetition of 'ika why this and that' and i give you explanations then you basically 'no i disagree and in my mind makes no sense so you are scum'. NEVER ONCE have you thought you were wrong (because you have never been wrong right?), or whatever does not make sense makes sense from my pov. So yeah I'm done. If you want to change your mind, then go read everything I posted with a blank slate and you can decide but I refuse to take what limited time i have to repeat bscially the same thing only for you to say no that makes no sense because i disagree.
Just ask the host to allow hammer I want to go to death chat. I'm tired of this back and forth with no success and it's just dragging along.
I will possibly consider ending the day earlier but Martin says he still has more posts, so I want to read them but Ikarus’ reaction to my vote looks very scummy to me.
I made it clear my vote was in the extremely unlikely case my internet dies and you just freak,out, AtE and berate me, instead of actually DOING something to try to convince me.
Ignoring everything else, I don’t think that reaction is town indicative because it simply isn’t true. And Yoshida was actually doing things but you’re not, so for you to say I’m ignoring evidence here is patently disingenuous on your part.
I've done all I could do. I took my spare time off to go read Martin's ISO and you continued to ask me for specifics why I scum read him, which I replied that I could not find anything and you were scum pointing me for it.
You asked all those questions and I answered them as much as I could and what did you do
You kept saying it makes no sense and asked pretty much the same question.
Seriously go back and read my post. You are NOT READING THEM.
But I don't want to be fighting here, this is simply a game. I'm frustrated yes, but there is no reason for me to get angry. I'm tired and I just want the game to be over because I cannot convince you. If you make the wrong call and lose the game with your vote, I take full responsibility because I failed to convince you. There.
Just type yes and let's be done.
I've got alot of stuff to do, and if what I've done is not enough to convince you, then I am sorry. I am just not good enough to scum read a perfect town play.
https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showt...340#post985340
There's a fair bit of focus on Ikarusdk. The linked post above is too big to quote. For the below quotes, I color the ones that are posts by Ikarusdk which Stellaria is referring to.
A bit of back-and-forth but none of the messages are really in a positive light while some of them are negative.
I looked into the timing of these quotes more, and these were made before the carol result claim by Gikkle. So its not like Stellaria had any reason to look specifically for Ikarusdk posts, but it seems with the carol results Stellaria just locks in later with a vote on Ikarusdk. They also mention one more thing a bit later in the day that Loldebite would be unpaired with ikarusdk.
A.K.A "That One Idiot"
After thinking about it more, I don't think I can make any sort of cohesive argument on this other than general experience in playing with scum, but even then that might be a stretch.
I did want to share in case Nancy had any insights about it pointing one way or another.
A.K.A "That One Idiot"
Your argument is that Martin tried to frame you but that post points away from that.
ISO Frinckles and Stellaria. I expected you to quote some posts in chat. I kept checking back but you never followed up and with the sole exception of that one post, you still haven’t.
And if you’re town, you don’t want to pressure me to end the game early, especially since I’m currently voting you. Martin isn’t.
Three players in this game have tried to manipulate me in such a way: Gikkle, Stellaria and now you.
Actually, I can.
The fact that Stellaria locks in the vote on Ikarus later, based on their previous suspicions, instead of defending themselves or suspecting Gikkle likely implies that they thought the Carol was real and accurate. Hence they wanted to vote out ikarusdk in order to save themselves. Additionally, if Ikarusdk is actually town in this situation, Stellaria is committing suicide on what they thought was a real Carol that was not messed with.
First quote shows Stellaria locking in on finidng Loldebite as town and Ikarus as mafia. The two quotes after it are some time after it. Its only later does Stellaria realize its possible the Carol was messed with, and then tries to say Ikarus hypothetically could flip town.
A.K.A "That One Idiot"
This can be summed up as, from Stellaria's perspective:
"I think Gikkle is quite suspicious, but I'm still going to vote Ikarus. If he flips green though then Gikkle was lying about the Carol"
Then, 1 hour and 20 minutes later:
(even later)
Conveniently, Gikkle is Chaos Executioner / non-mafia and gives a potential out for Stellaria to retract and lessen their stance against Ikarusdk.
A.K.A "That One Idiot"