S-FM 350: Chaotic Executioner

[MartinGG99]

Well actually they say they thought that gikkle thought Ikarus was mafia.

But regardless though they sought to defuse the carol and give them enough room to not auto-vote Ikarus. Later in that day they vote Frinckles and start tussling with them.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Actually, I can.

The fact that Stellaria locks in the vote on Ikarus later, based on their previous suspicions, instead of defending themselves or suspecting Gikkle likely implies that they thought the Carol was real and accurate. Hence they wanted to vote out ikarusdk in order to save themselves. Additionally, if Ikarusdk is actually town in this situation, Stellaria is committing suicide on what they thought was a real Carol that was not messed with.

First quote shows Stellaria locking in on finidng Loldebite as town and Ikarus as mafia. The two quotes after it are some time after it. Its only later does Stellaria realize its possible the Carol was messed with, and then tries to say Ikarus hypothetically could flip town.

Also scum perspective slip from Stella here, tr Lol more than themselves. Yeah and Gikkle did say that he thought Frinckles thought he was town.

I think after Gikkle posted the carol, scumteam panicked. Frinckles kept insisting Gikkle was mafia, so I don’t believe scum thought he was CE but post Ren blank shot, Frinckles tried to get towncred for it.

And Stellaria didn’t have much of an opinion on Varcron, Zenon but they were oh so confident on Ikarus.

And pre-carol, stating that Ikarus can’t be scum with Frinckles. There’s nothing that suggests that it’s practically impossible for them to be aligned.

But since we know Stellaria’s scum, pretty damning.

[MartinGG99]

Anyway guys it's been quite busy for me today and tonight so apologise if i haven't replied some stuff directed at me. I got this page on my phone n my pc so that's probably why you see my name on the bottom of the page all the time (dont know if that's the case) but i am not actively staring at it. I am working in the morning but I will be back before EoD and also during EoD to vote and also voice my opinions.

Hope people that weren't really present here can show up and give us their input because fresh PoV might also be very helpful here.

But one thing is clear. Gikkles or Frinckles. At least they rhyme.

Unless I am mistaken, if we do not have redirection role that targetted me last night (sorry if it doesn't work that way), Gikkles or Frinckles, one of them is lying.

Please give us your input. I've been too busy to sit down and work this out.

Asks for input from people, but then says he's just focusing on the Frinckles/Gikkle interactions only ~11 hours later. The only post he made between that seemed invested in seeing input from people who are not Gikkle/Frinckles is this:

I'm working atm, but i've been reading on the side.

Nobody is CCing caroler though??

.....where he's looking for a Caroler as at the time Frinckles was fake-claiming caroler

ok it is getting super hard not to be agitated by stellaria.

Look I am focusing on gikkles-frinckles interaction.

You are tunneling me knowing i can't really defend myself thoroughly rn.

He does make posts and interactions with other people eventually. But I feel like his priorities in that matter lied in finding the town Caroler.

[MartinGG99]

Also scum perspective slip from Stella here, tr Lol more than themselves. Yeah and Gikkle did say that he thought Frinckles thought he was town.

I think after Gikkle posted the carol, scumteam panicked. Frinckles kept insisting Gikkle was mafia, so I don’t believe scum thought he was CE but post Ren blank shot, Frinckles tried to get towncred for it.

And Stellaria didn’t have much of an opinion on Varcron, Zenon but they were oh so confident on Ikarus.

And pre-carol, stating that Ikarus can’t be scum with Frinckles. There’s nothing that suggests that it’s practically impossible for them to be aligned.

But since we know Stellaria’s scum, pretty damning.

Yeah I think a bit of panic did happen. Although I'm not sure how much considering Frinckles and Ikarusdk are people that voted for Carol to exist on actual day 1 of this game. I do think Stellaria panicked though, they didn't even vote for a role to be sent out by CE on night 1.

[MartinGG99]

Current votes:

1. Stellaria
2. Gikkle - Marshall
3. Loldebite - Caroler
4. BusterCannon
5. ItalianoVD - Mentor
6. Nancy Drew 39 - Sheriff
7. Frinckles - Caroler
8. Auwt - Crier
9. MartinGG99 - Caroler
10. yoshida - Gunsmith
11. ikarusdk - Caroler
12. Renegade - Oracle
13. Clemensthelemon

reposting for convenience

[Nancy Drew 39]

This can be summed up as, from Stellaria's perspective:

"I think Gikkle is quite suspicious, but I'm still going to vote Ikarus. If he flips green though then Gikkle was lying about the Carol"

Then, 1 hour and 20 minutes later:



(even later)




Conveniently, Gikkle is Chaos Executioner / non-mafia and gives a potential out for Stellaria to retract and lessen their stance against Ikarusdk.

Yeah more evidence that scum thought Gikkle was town. I think they are even later posts where Stellaria kept pushing a Ren/Ikarus team but both scum only voted Ren I think but need to check on that.

[MartinGG99]

Yeah more evidence that scum thought Gikkle was town.

I'm not sure I agree with that assessment but if true it definitely is more reason why I'm town here. Since I pointed out very early in the day that it was likely that Gikkle was CE.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Prior to Ren failed shot on Gikkle, Frinckles kept saying Gikkle was mafia and would put one of his buddies in the carol.

I don’t think he’d say that if he thought Gikkle was CE but it’s suicidal for scum to hardpush CE like that, so scum thinking Gikkle was town makes more sense and as you pointed out. Stellaria changed their tune after Gikkle flipped CE.

Had Stellaria believed that Gikkle would flip CE, probably wouldn’t have been pushing Ikarus, so it points to thinking he was town.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I’m going to crash soon. Unless Ikarus actually does something, I probably won’t wait until EoD to end the game but I think it’s pretty obvious now.

[MartinGG99]

Doing my best rn not to be agitated at stellaria rn.

ok it is getting super hard not to be agitated by stellaria.

Mafia Gikkles wants to fake Carol. The real caroler, Frinckles knows he did not select Gikkles. We know that there is no town redirection role because they would've come out. Gikkles wanted to lynch one of three names during the day, and pushes stellaria. He probably did not expect the caroler to reveal but if he can get the caroler out for this gambit, which is what happened, all the better because they can NK the caroler also. We know renegade received a gun. So lynching stella (if town good for him, if mafia, get towncred so good for him), and shade Frinckles today in case they survive the NK, ren can shoot Frinckles the next day. I have no other reason to believe Frinckles isn't the Caroler here.

Despite stating all of the above, they say they'll need "further convincing" to vote Stellaria over Loldebite IF the carol from Frinckles (Frinckle's fake-claim) was redirected from Ikarus onto Gikkle.

I don't believe we have a sheriff from gikkles post above, so we do have a chance for mafia redirection and if there is flipping gikkles does not mean frinckles is necessarily mafia, it is more likely to be between loldebite and stellaria and we are literally playing into their narrative.

Let me go see why we don't have redirection

And if this is the case, I would rather push stellaria rather than loldebite, but I'll need further convincing

This is more about fishing for the real caroler, but it does slip that for some reason Stellaria is someone he is reluctant to vote.

[MartinGG99]

I’m going to crash soon. Unless Ikarus actually does something, I probably won’t wait until EoD to end the game but I think it’s pretty obvious now.

@Nancy Drew 39

I'm about to exhaust all the searches I can do on ISOs. There's not much in Ikarus' ISO that is definitve. I'm scraping the barrel here.

So if you ended the game now you probably wouldn't be missing much.

[ikarusdk]

I’m going to crash soon. Unless Ikarus actually does something, I probably won’t wait until EoD to end the game but I think it’s pretty obvious now.

bringing up my suspcison I was only alive because I'm being framed.



It wasn't to help you to decide, it was more or less a opening/closing statement for the end of the game.

I had considered skipping the day, but I decided it was not changing anything. Also I was SR Zenon anyway.

we skip
Martin kills Varcron,
I would've jailed Zenon
The next day we wake up Zenon is IC (all in hindsight, we would not have known at that point in time). So Zenon IC + ika v Nancy v Martin.
We decide to jail/lynch you.
We jail you, then Martin would've killed Zenon, because killing me would result in 2IC vs Martin. So we wake up in the same scenario as now. Nancy IC v ika v Martin
We lynch you, then Martin would've killed me, and it's game over.



That's not true that killing Ren over me because he is not mentioned in either carol does not benefit Martin. I did not think about the carol part at least when we chatted but it makes sense that martin kills ren over me if he wanted to frame me because I was in carol, ren was not. So I am more likely to be scum from town pov.

Also I did go over Martin's ISO, and I found nothing. Probably because I've been pretty tired. Also I did not want to post anything unless I found something, otherwise it's just flooding the forum with no purpose. I thought I'd still have time. I will go over the posts again and see if i can spot inconsistencies or anything but I can't really promise that I will because I am still developing scum hunting skills. Does not help that unlike you, i shared very similar worldview with martin all game. But give me some time.

ehhh, I disagree with this argument because...well scum has to push someone to be voted right? And I was just that person Stella was pushing with weird takes from day 1. Everyone's playstyle is different I guess so I don't know what the strategy was behind that deathtunnel if there was one.

ugh (agitated at myself), I meant that Ren was another TOP TR, not towncleared. I think I was typing quite fast few times in the game and I made errors like this i think.

There are few reasons.

1) Simply, to get rid of another vocal player. At that time between Zenon,Ika,Nancy,Ren,Varcron,Martin, Ren was one of the more active players here. It makes the game eaiser to be powerwolfed (but there was no powerwolfing) by getting rid of player who has pretty high standard of play.

2) To seed chaos. We are essentially dumbfounded by why ren was killed. Am I wrong here? It helps scum if the town uses too much focus on why this player was killed over someone.

3) Ren would've gone for Martin the next day as he had you,zenon really low in his POE, and martin and I pretty high.

4) On top of all these, killing Ren opens up the opportunity for ika to be framed, which is what happened as both Varcron and I had suspected. If I remember correctly, it was the day before that Martin stated that I am not an alignment cop. Coincidence?

I hope I answered some key questions you had, and I must now go do some chores. I will be back try do some research on Martin....not looking forward to it tho.

so this makes sense from Martin's POV, and the 3rd point is why it does not make sense from your pov Nancy. Or perpahs you are a low risk player.

Eh I could quote Martin and argue why this is scummy and that is scummy all day but honestly, I don't want to do that.....

Because from a neutral standpoint - they all make sense as town!martin pov and I AGREED with all of them.

So trying to do so, is kinda warping the reality to fit my current narrative to prove martin is scum, which is not how I want to play mafia in order to win.

For example, this post.



I could argue that I saw the exact plan Martin was playing. I read him like a book and this is how he is going to play for the next two days (you know, the whole kill IC, leave me till mylo thing)

Martin decided to swing his vote in instead of skipping (kill zenon yes, one step further into his plan). Then he starts to paint scum!ikarus here and there to keep up with the frame act (starts supporting his claim I am scum).

This is just an example, but I would not want to do this because if i were a 3rd party agreeing with Martin look at this, from town!martin perspective, this makes sense.

I realise this does not help you at all Nancy, but this is my dilemma. Hence why I respect Martin as a mafia player because there is no mistake on his part.

I don't know if im getting my message acrossed, but sorry about rambling.

https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showt...943#post986943

Post 2663.

'opens up the opportunity for ika to be framed' - because ika should obviously die as alignment cop

1) Do I know his scum game? - No I am not familiar with Martin's scumgame. This is only my 7th (8th?) FM game like ever, and 2 games I've played with him he was town.

2) About it making more sense if martin was in carol - How does it make more sense if he was in carol? Am I not understanding the things properly? Town would obviously sus a person who was in carol more than the person who was not since the carol can contain more than 1 mafia.

3) Quoting - I've been busy unfortunately and still am. I work 12 hour shifts 6 days a week and I do what I can during breaks, plus between chores when I get home. So excuse me if I haven't gone through over 3000 posts yet, but if i wasn't going to do it, then it's because I am tired. Also replying and answering posts are already taking up much of my free time.

4) Why I did not switch vote to skip on Zenon



5) Two mech things - I absolutely agree with Gikkle but I highly disagree about Ren's nk. I don't understand why you keep insisting Martin is more mech clear because Ren died instead of me, but I had explained why Ren had died instead of me multiple times. I don't think you've read it thorougly which annoys me abit because i find myself having to repeat.



6) Again, I explained why I did not skip on zenon

7) Did I tr Yoshida more than Zenon - No. Yoshida flickered between extremely scummy and extremely towny. Not very much in between. I was willing to solve him there, but if you were there at the time of me posting, I wanted to play it safe by jailing him because we still had number advantage, therefore time. Zenon was null read until the very end. In hindsight she did very well spotting Stellaria and shooting her. But at the time it was completely NAI because Stella was going to die anyway as lynch so mafia killing another member for towncred is easy.

' you telling me how townie you think he’s been all game and despite all overwhelming evidence to the contrary was still suss on me but I’m supposed to now sr the player you keep calling townie by play, doesn’t help your situation any.' - yes that is exact predicament I find myself in. I ONLY know he is scum because I am not, and you are not. This is why I am not gonna be mad if I lose because Martin played it that well. If you see something in him that I do not, then do tell. Perhaps that is why Martin chose me to bring me to lylo because he knew that my scumhunting is weak.

9) On sussing you after REn was killed - I've claimed numerous time here and in our chat that the only reason I know Martin is scum is because of mech. Not because of reads. After Ren was NK, my top poe was Zenon. Zenon flipped town so who am i supposed to sus next? Someone that was somewhat townlean or martin who was my top TR all game? I don't really care about Ren's assessment because i like my own independent reads.

10) 'If it makes sense to you that Martin killed Ren for his reads, than it should also logically follow that you would tr me more than Martin, solely based on that' - You are twisting my words here. I Had to guess why ren was killed over me. I am not the scum that made that play so how am I supposed to know what was going inside Martin's head? Also Martin killing Ren because of Ren's read is one of several reasons I already stated in my post. Also I like doing my own reads. I want to develop my own skills, and I do take other's reads into consideration but that is where it stops. If I alter my reads based because someone more experienced than me has different reads, then I will never grow as a player. Not to mention Martin killing Ren for reads is mutually exclusive to why I should TR you more than Martin. Martin killed Ren because Ren was going for him next. So where does me TR you come into that factor?

Because once he makes it clear that I should be the one who logically DIES

but then I DO NOT till MYLO

town will then obviously lynch the one WHO SHOULD'VE DIED.

You've fallen right into Martin's frame and it's frustrating that you don't see it.

Yeah you find yourself having perhaps 15-20 min every 5-6 hours, and tell me I have not 'actually done something'. This is quite insulting to hear that I have not done anything since this morning. I've done my best to answer your questions but because you disagreed with everything I have said, apparently I have done nothing. See why I don't want to spend any more time?

[MartinGG99]

I do wanna say that I've come to learn that Nancy can be a bit abrasive. There's other stuff that ticked me off a bit but given the consistency of their behavior I don't think its intended to be hurtful or anything. It would be nice if they could word things better, but I've grown to learn that its very difficult to change that.

I hope you don't take Nancy's words too harshly Ikarus. You've played really well throughout the game and your team has done so too. You guys while wolfing have to anticipate stuff that is light-years away, because really some of the stuff we're finding on you guys is only because this is the F3 and we know X, Y, and Z. Had it been some other F3, the points that exist today may have not been as apparent or even proven. Not to mention you all had to deal with the pressures of a caroler early on.

[ikarusdk]

If you can widen your perspective and not ignore 95% of my posts, I'm willing to engage.

You are entitled to form your own opinion and I welcome to hear them and I'm here to help but I'm not spending what limited time I have just to be told no after I actively tried to engage with you.

[ikarusdk]

I do wanna say that I've come to learn that Nancy can be a bit abrasive. There's other stuff that ticked me off a bit but given the consistency of their behavior I don't think its intended to be hurtful or anything. It would be nice if they could word things better, but I've grown to learn that its very difficult to change that.

I hope you don't take Nancy's words too harshly Ikarus. You've played really well throughout the game and your team has done so too. You guys while wolfing have to anticipate stuff that is light-years away, because really some of the stuff we're finding on you guys is only because this is the F3 and we know X, Y, and Z. Had it been some other F3, the points that exist today may have not been as apparent or even proven. Not to mention you all had to deal with the pressures of a caroler early on.

I can take abrasive. I can dismiss downright abusive behaviour (but you wouldn't see that here) but things that frustrate me the most is when someone asks you a series of questions and you take your time to answer them, they keep asking the same question several times and tells you that you gotta do more because 1) they did not read the posts 2) they are so set in their mind that nothing you say will change them, it's like they are asking questions not to seek new information, but simply to ignore them

[ikarusdk]

And when I get frustrated, I become someone that I later regret, which is me right now.

[ikarusdk]

-ikarusdk does not make a suicidal wolf play that wins town the game
-ikarusdk is also a wolf fucking wolves over
-ikarusdk figures out exactly what is happening but as a wolf decides to leave him and not night kill him

Where is the big GOOFY sticker?

Found it

to borrow frinckle's post (quoted copy is not the exact copy)

[ikarusdk]

I'm going to catch up and read your posts about Stellaria and Frinckles now and do my ISO

[MartinGG99]

I can take abrasive. I can dismiss downright abusive behaviour (but you wouldn't see that here) but things that frustrate me the most is when someone asks you a series of questions and you take your time to answer them, they keep asking the same question several times and tells you that you gotta do more because 1) they did not read the posts 2) they are so set in their mind that nothing you say will change them, it's like they are asking questions not to seek new information, but simply to ignore them

I don't think I got any good words for that. At least, not since I am a player here.

Sucks if you are feeling this way regardless of alignment though. I didn't have much or any reason to interact with your posts because I didn't need to interject into your conversations with Nancy.

I appreciate that you've tried though. Its cool of you that you did, and it would make me disappointed if I just rolled over your slot just because you didn't try arguing with Nancy.

[MartinGG99]

Us all trying here, regardless of whether or not we acknowledge each other to the fullest, adds meaning to whoever wins or loses here fmpov. So even if you don't feel like you're getting anything out of it but spite, I can assure you I am benefitting from it (as a general Forum Mafia player) no matter how this game goes and I appreciate it.

[ikarusdk]

Yeah more evidence that scum thought Gikkle was town. I think they are even later posts where Stellaria kept pushing a Ren/Ikarus team but both scum only voted Ren I think but need to check on that.

I am not sure how to quote the VC, and not sure if this is allowed but here (frinkcles/stellaria vote history). The format will be terrible.

Frinckles Voted For Ikarusdk 241 1 Placeholder
BusterCannon Voted For Renegade 248 1 Placeholder
ItalianoVD Voted For BusterCannon 256 1 Placeholder
Gikkle Voted For Renegade 319 1 Placeholder
Nancy Drew 39 Voted For BusterCannon 355 1 Placeholder
Auwt Voted For Yoshida 368 1 Placeholder
Renegade Voted For Yoshida 446 1 Placeholder
MartinGG99 Voted For Gikkle 454 1 Placeholder
Gikkle Voted For ItalianoVD 466 1 Placeholder
Gikkle Voted For Auwt 468 1 Placeholder
Yoshida Voted For Ikarusdk 564 1 Placeholder
Ikarusdk Voted For Auwt 610 1 Placeholder
Loldebite Voted For Yoshida 611 1 Placeholder
Ikarusdk Voted For MartinGG99 631 1 Placeholder
ItalianoVD Unvoted 667 1 Placeholder
Yoshida Voted For Loldebite 673 1 Placeholder
Renegade Voted For MartinGG99 701 1 Placeholder
Nancy Drew 39 Unvoted 720 1 Placeholder
Ikarusdk Voted For Auwt 771 1 Placeholder
MartinGG99 Unvoted 822 1 Placeholder
Frinckles Voted For Yoshida 858 1 Placeholder
BusterCannon Voted For Yoshida 860 1 Placeholder
MartinGG99 Voted For Yoshida 870 1 Placeholder
ItalianoVD Voted For Auwt 887 1 Placeholder
Renegade Voted For Auwt 904 1 Placeholder
MartinGG99 Voted For Auwt 922 1 Placeholder
Loldebite Voted For Gikkle 925 1 Placeholder
Nancy Drew 39 Voted For Awt 939 1 Placeholder
Loldebite Voted For Yoshida 946 1 Placeholder
Nancy Drew 39 Voted For Auwt 948 1 Placeholder
Frinckles Voted For Gikkle 979 1 Placeholder
Loldebite Voted For Gikkle 980 1 Placeholder
Renegade Voted For MartinGG99 1057 1 Placeholder
Renegade Unvoted 1058 1 Placeholder
Frinckles Voted For Gikkle 1110 1 Placeholder
Loldebite Voted For Gikkle 1114 1 Placeholder
Ikarusdk Voted For JeremiahSablan 1121 1 Placeholder
Nancy Drew 39 Voted For Loldebites 1165 1 Placeholder
MartinGG99 Voted For BusterCannon 1178 1 Placeholder
Renegade Voted For Stellaria 1192 1 Placeholder
Stellaria Voted For Ikarusdk 1198 1 Placeholder
Frinckles Voted For Gikkle 1207 1 Placeholder
Renegade Unvoted 1216 1 Placeholder
MartinGG99 Voted For Gikkle 1229 1 Placeholder
Loldebite Voted For Unvote 1311 1 Placeholder
Ikarusdk Unvoted 1374 1 Placeholder
Gikkle Voted For Stellaria 1390 1 Placeholder
Yoshida Voted For Frinckles 1478 1 Placeholder
Loldebite Voted For Stellaria 1525 1 Placeholder
Loldebite Voted For Ikarusdk 1583 1 Placeholder
MartinGG99 Voted For Stellaria 1596 1 Placeholder
Loldebite Voted For Unvote 1611 1 Placeholder
Ikarusdk Voted For Gikkles 1620 1 Placeholder
Ikarusdk Voted For Gikkle 1622 1 Placeholder
Stellaria Voted For Gikkle 1662 1 Placeholder
Loldebite Voted For Frinckles 1681 1 Placeholder
Loldebite Voted For Unvote 1768 1 Placeholder
MartinGG99 Unvoted 1801 1 Placeholder
Yoshida Voted For Gikkle 1810 1 Placeholder
Yoshida Voted For MartinGG99 1837 1 Placeholder
Loldebite Voted For Renegade 1871 1 Placeholder
Loldebite Voted For Unvote 1882 1 Placeholder
Loldebite Voted For Gikkle 1885 1 Placeholder
Yoshida Voted For Gikkle 1919 1 Placeholder
Nancy Drew 39 Voted For Gikkle 1922 1 Placeholder
Renegade Voted For Gikkle 1962 1 Placeholder
Gikkle Voted For Skip 1974 1 Placeholder
Gikkle Unvoted 1975 1 Placeholder
Loldebite Voted For Unvote 2027 1 Placeholder
Loldebite Voted For Frinckles 2043 1 Placeholder
MartinGG99 Voted For Gikkle 2046 1 Placeholder
Loldebite Voted For Unvote 2060 1 Placeholder
Renegade Voted For Frinckles 2117 1 Placeholder
Loldebite Voted For Gikkle 2119 1 Placeholder
Frinckles Voted For Unvote 2123 1 Placeholder
Gikkle Voted For Frinckles 2124 1 Placeholder
Renegade Unvoted 2125 1 Placeholder
Gikkle Unvoted 2126 1 Placeholder
Frinckles Voted For Gikkle 2128 1 Placeholder
Loldebite Voted For Frinckles 2133 1 Placeholder
Zenon Voted For Frinckles 2140 1 Placeholder
Loldebite Voted For Frinckles 2158 1 Placeholder
MartinGG99 Voted For Frinckles 2160 1 Placeholder
Zenon Voted For Frinckles 2170 1 Placeholder
Frinckles Voted For Yoshida 2185 1 Placeholder
Yoshida Voted For Yoshida 2189 1 Placeholder
Frinckles Voted For Stellaria 2190 1 Placeholder
Nancy Drew 39 Voted For Frinckles 2192 1 Placeholder
Ikarusdk Voted For Yoshida 2201 1 Placeholder
Renegade Voted For Frinckles 2203 1 Placeholder
Yoshida Voted For Ikarusdk 2208 1 Placeholder
Yoshida Voted For Frinckles 2258 1 Placeholder
Stellaria Voted For Frinckles 2288 1 Placeholder
Yoshida Voted For Ikarusdk 2330 1 Placeholder
Frinckles Voted For Renegade 2433 1 Placeholder
Zenon Voted For Stellaria 2442 1 Placeholder
Renegade Voted For Stellaria 2472 1 Placeholder
Frinckles Voted For Yoshida 2480 1 Placeholder
Frinckles Voted For Renegade 2501 1 Placeholder
Renegade Voted For Yoshida 2516 1 Placeholder
Renegade Voted For Stellaria 2519 1 Placeholder
Frinckles Voted For Yoshida 2524 1 Placeholder
Frinckles Voted For YOSHIDA 2543 1 Placeholder
Yoshida Voted For Yoshida 2560 1 Placeholder
Stellaria Voted For Yoshida 2569 1 Placeholder
Varcron Voted For Stellaria 2572 1 Placeholder
Yoshida Voted For Frinckles 2578 1 Placeholder
Zenon Voted For Vacron 2584 1 Placeholder
Renegade Voted For Frinckles 2590 1 Placeholder
Varcron Voted For Frinckles 2593 1 Placeholder
Zenon Voted For Frinckles 2601 1 Placeholder
Ikarusdk Voted For Frinckles 2616 1 Placeholder
MartinGG99 Voted For Yoshida 2632 1 Placeholder
Nancy Drew 39 Voted For Stellaria 2635 1 Placeholder
Nancy Drew 39 Voted For Yoshida 2653 1 Placeholder
Ikarusdk Voted For Yoshida 2674 1 Placeholder
Renegade Voted For Yoshida 2678 1 Placeholder
Varcron Voted For Yoshida 2747 1 Placeholder
Yoshida Voted For Renegade 2770 1 Placeholder
Zenon Voted For Yoshida 2816 1 Placeholder
Yoshida Voted For Nancy Drew 39 2892 1 Placeholder
Nancy Drew 39 Voted For Yoshida 2897 1 Placeholder
Nancy Drew 39 Voted For Skip 2930 1 Placeholder

[MartinGG99]

I'm gonna head off for now. I'll be occasionally checking for any @'s for the next few hours then going to sleep. I'll wake up around 5-6 hours before when EoD actually happens.

[MartinGG99]

I am not sure how to quote the VC, and not sure if this is allowed but here (frinkcles/stellaria vote history).

if vote-count history quoting is banned after some of the things that have happened in this game then idek anymore

[MartinGG99]

actually y'know what I'll see if I can Microsoft Word magic that VC into colors and ect so its easier to understand

[ikarusdk]

I don't think I got any good words for that. At least, not since I am a player here.

Sucks if you are feeling this way regardless of alignment though. I didn't have much or any reason to interact with your posts because I didn't need to interject into your conversations with Nancy.

I appreciate that you've tried though. Its cool of you that you did, and it would make me disappointed if I just rolled over your slot just because you didn't try arguing with Nancy.

That's fine, I appreciate it. One of the reasons for my respect for you as a player.

Us all trying here, regardless of whether or not we acknowledge each other to the fullest, adds meaning to whoever wins or loses here fmpov. So even if you don't feel like you're getting anything out of it but spite, I can assure you I am benefitting from it (as a general Forum Mafia player) no matter how this game goes and I appreciate it.

I wouldn't say spite, but frustration can build up I suppose and I easily let that get to me. Don't get me wrong, I still enjoy all the aspect of mafia and playing with all participants (i need to fix my attitude though when i get frustrated, gotta remember to chill, people can't see into my mind)

I'm here to play but also to learn. I've learned few tips and tricks here in this game alone so I'm happy even if I lose.

[MartinGG99]

this is a preliminary colored VC

non-colored names should be confirmed town I believe (unless there's any typo'ed names there)

Spoiler : :

Frinckles Voted For Ikarusdk 241 1
BusterCannon Voted For Renegade 248 1
ItalianoVD Voted For BusterCannon 256 1
Gikkle Voted For Renegade 319 1
Nancy Drew 39 Voted For BusterCannon 355 1
Auwt Voted For Yoshida 368 1
Renegade Voted For Yoshida 446 1
MartinGG99 Voted For Gikkle 454 1
Gikkle Voted For ItalianoVD 466 1
Gikkle Voted For Auwt 468 1
Yoshida Voted For Ikarusdk 564 1
Ikarusdk Voted For Auwt 610 1
Loldebite Voted For Yoshida 611 1
Ikarusdk Voted For MartinGG99 631 1
ItalianoVD Unvoted 667 1
Yoshida Voted For Loldebite 673 1
Renegade Voted For MartinGG99 701 1
Nancy Drew 39 Unvoted 720 1
Ikarusdk Voted For Auwt 771 1
MartinGG99 Unvoted 822 1
Frinckles Voted For Yoshida 858 1
BusterCannon Voted For Yoshida 860 1
MartinGG99 Voted For Yoshida 870 1
ItalianoVD Voted For Auwt 887 1
Renegade Voted For Auwt 904 1
MartinGG99 Voted For Auwt 922 1
Loldebite Voted For Gikkle 925 1
Nancy Drew 39 Voted For Awt 939 1
Loldebite Voted For Yoshida 946 1
Nancy Drew 39 Voted For Auwt 948 1
Frinckles Voted For Gikkle 979 1
Loldebite Voted For Gikkle 980 1
Renegade Voted For MartinGG99 1057 1
Renegade Unvoted 1058 1
Frinckles Voted For Gikkle 1110 1
Loldebite Voted For Gikkle 1114 1
Ikarusdk Voted For JeremiahSablan 1121 1
Nancy Drew 39 Voted For Loldebites 1165 1
MartinGG99 Voted For BusterCannon 1178 1
Renegade Voted For Stellaria 1192 1
Stellaria Voted For Ikarusdk 1198 1
Frinckles Voted For Gikkle 1207 1
Renegade Unvoted 1216 1
MartinGG99 Voted For Gikkle 1229 1
Loldebite Voted For Unvote 1311 1
Ikarusdk Unvoted 1374 1
Gikkle Voted For Stellaria 1390 1
Yoshida Voted For Frinckles 1478 1
Loldebite Voted For Stellaria 1525 1
Loldebite Voted For Ikarusdk 1583 1
MartinGG99 Voted For Stellaria 1596 1
Loldebite Voted For Unvote 1611 1
Ikarusdk Voted For Gikkles 1620 1
Ikarusdk Voted For Gikkle 1622 1
Stellaria Voted For Gikkle 1662 1
Loldebite Voted For Frinckles 1681 1
Loldebite Voted For Unvote 1768 1
MartinGG99 Unvoted 1801 1
Yoshida Voted For Gikkle 1810 1
Yoshida Voted For MartinGG99 1837 1
Loldebite Voted For Renegade 1871 1
Loldebite Voted For Unvote 1882 1
Loldebite Voted For Gikkle 1885 1
Yoshida Voted For Gikkle 1919 1
Nancy Drew 39 Voted For Gikkle 1922 1
Renegade Voted For Gikkle 1962 1
Gikkle Voted For Skip 1974 1
Gikkle Unvoted 1975 1
Loldebite Voted For Unvote 2027 1
Loldebite Voted For Frinckles 2043 1
MartinGG99 Voted For Gikkle 2046 1
Loldebite Voted For Unvote 2060 1
Renegade Voted For Frinckles 2117 1
Loldebite Voted For Gikkle 2119 1
Frinckles Voted For Unvote 2123 1
Gikkle Voted For Frinckles 2124 1
Renegade Unvoted 2125 1
Gikkle Unvoted 2126 1
Frinckles Voted For Gikkle 2128 1
Loldebite Voted For Frinckles 2133 1
Zenon Voted For Frinckles 2140 1
Loldebite Voted For Frinckles 2158 1
MartinGG99 Voted For Frinckles 2160 1
Zenon Voted For Frinckles 2170 1
Frinckles Voted For Yoshida 2185 1
Yoshida Voted For Yoshida 2189 1
Frinckles Voted For Stellaria 2190 1
Nancy Drew 39 Voted For Frinckles 2192 1
Ikarusdk Voted For Yoshida 2201 1
Renegade Voted For Frinckles 2203 1
Yoshida Voted For Ikarusdk 2208 1
Yoshida Voted For Frinckles 2258 1
Stellaria Voted For Frinckles 2288 1
Yoshida Voted For Ikarusdk 2330 1
Frinckles Voted For Renegade 2433 1
Zenon Voted For Stellaria 2442 1
Renegade Voted For Stellaria 2472 1
Frinckles Voted For Yoshida 2480 1
Frinckles Voted For Renegade 2501 1
Renegade Voted For Yoshida 2516 1
Renegade Voted For Stellaria 2519 1
Frinckles Voted For Yoshida 2524 1
Frinckles Voted For Yoshida 2543 1
Yoshida Voted For Yoshida 2560 1
Stellaria Voted For Yoshida 2569 1
Varcron Voted For Stellaria 2572 1
Yoshida Voted For Frinckles 2578 1
Zenon Voted For Vacron 2584 1
Renegade Voted For Frinckles 2590 1
Varcron Voted For Frinckles 2593 1
Zenon Voted For Frinckles 2601 1
Ikarusdk Voted For Frinckles 2616 1
MartinGG99 Voted For Yoshida 2632 1
Nancy Drew 39 Voted For Stellaria 2635 1
Nancy Drew 39 Voted For Yoshida 2653 1
Ikarusdk Voted For Yoshida 2674 1
Renegade Voted For Yoshida 2678 1
Varcron Voted For Yoshida 2747 1
Yoshida Voted For Renegade 2770 1
Zenon Voted For Yoshida 2816 1
Yoshida Voted For Nancy Drew 39 2892 1
Nancy Drew 39 Voted For Yoshida 2897 1
Nancy Drew 39 Voted For Skip 2930 1

Sidenote took a few extra minutes to figure out because I was including optional quotation marks in the code and apparently this website absolutely hates the quotation marks I was using. So I had to remove them.

[MartinGG99]

Well, its not the full VC. But its basically up till the start of the day where we vote off Zenon.

Or something like that. Also Unvote is not colored so be mindful of that.

[MartinGG99]

anyways

I'm gonna head off for now. I'll be occasionally checking for any @'s for the next few hours then going to sleep. I'll wake up around 5-6 hours before when EoD actually happens.

off to what I was going to do before I started trying to mess with VCs and Microsoft Word magic.

[ikarusdk]

Doing Quick ISO on Stellaria.

I don't see Frinckles + Stella to be a distance+bussing type. Except for voting each other in one occasion, they were more focused on Gikkle and then yoshida. Ren was voted on two occaions by Frinckles but not by Stellaraia.

Anyway imma d1 read this

Italiano - town
Renegade - neutral

Bus - town
Stell - town
Loldebite - town

EZ

What do you think of my plan Frinckles? You gave me a TR so I assume you like it?

I still do not see how I would fit into Frinckles+Stellaria team, considering I was pretty much against their views. Yeah I admit that I thought Frinckles was telling the truth about sending me the carol because nothing could prove that he did not because of Mech reasons, plus there was no CC so I had to work with what I have and believe Frinckles. TBH the gambit I thought Gikkle was pulling off did make sense to me at the time. In hindsight this is a completely wrong view of course. But for the rest of the game I don't think I shared any worldview with them? If I was scum, wouldn't it make more sense to push the same agenda? Both Frinckles and Stellaria wanted Yoshida out. I was with them at first, but I changed my mind to jailing yoshida later on upon realising there is no risk for jailing him instead. Only after Renegade told me that yoshida is getting yeeted and I saw that there was not going to be any change in votes, I decided it was fine because, what the hell, I could've been right about my initial feeling about yoshida. You could of course argue that the outcome did not change, but I was quite vocal about jailing yoshida instead, which is by going VC alone, I was going against the mafia team decision to lynch yoshida out.

I'm gonna take this to just mean you think Gikkle and Deb are unpaired

in response to

this is my attempt at a d1 vote without overthinking things much

hope I'm right

-vote Gikkle

Spoiler : raisins :

something something feel like lolde and gikkle are in different worlds and my TMI gut says lolde town as I think the reasons against them are similar to reasons used when he was a suspected town before, though I have not double-checked this in order to avoid over-thinking

I have a feeling that more of gikkle's posts are to demonstrate him thinking; a lot of their thinking is public (or is being made public eventually when quoting other's posts about X or Y slot) and I don't see much if any being hidden for any purpose despite him fence-sitting (i.e. not really making mind up) in some cases

I also gotta make more posts before I head off to do some exam studying, as otherwise I'm basically only here in the last hour or two of this day phase and that's asking to miss out on minimum posting requirements

IDK, the fludity of the interaction does not sit right with me (just a feeling), although it's perhaps nothing telling here.

Well I townread Carrot but I get what you mean. The recipe for my read accuracy seems to be making a conclusion on a slot and then throwing that read in the trash. don't think I'm at the point where I wanna throw this in the trash though.

what are you thinking so far?

Considering my disaster last game, I'm hesitant to make any concrete reads. I'm still feeling everyone out; I want to get at least some interaction with everyone and see how people respond to my two posts asking multiple people about things, but anyways don't expect anything concrete from me right now. I know it's day 2, but tbh it feels like day 1 still for me. Maybe I'll have some reads by end of day

Further examples of Frinckles/Stellaria interaction. They are pretty well in sync throughout the game (more examples below this interaction around post #485 https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showt...l=1#post984742) and I still would not see myself fitting well here.

Notes:

Frinkles #519

I'm not really fully convinced that Frinckles doesn't understand what I'm trying to accomplish with my plan. The tone almost makes it seem like a wolfslip but that's just conjecture. And anyway I'm not sure about my reads at this point.

ikarusdk #520

I dunno if I like the idea that the only think ikarus can contribute here is talking about himself being scumread, but work is NAI. I want to think that there's better uses of his time than that, but for me Day 1 and 2 were kind of similar. The only real information we had to go off of is how people voted for which role, as well as social cues, but as I've said before, I'm better at mechanical deduction than I am social cues. But I'll try my best for this post. Also, I really don't like the last part of the post. What I got from it is that ikarus will no longer contribute to discussion if he keeps getting scumread for a reason he disagrees with (he's not contributing enough or he's lacking conviction or whatever)

Gikkle #523

If it was a spectator chat this post would read as a tinfoil but I don't really know if that's what Gikkle is going for here. The quote immediate after calling attention to the big thinking face might seem like a subtle scum thing to repeat the idea in the reader's mind but I think it comes off genuine enough for me to not really give it any second thought. It's clear from this post that Gikkle scumreads both Renegade and Buster. I'm kind of chill with the Renegade scumread but I really don't know how I feel about Buster!wolf. Unless he's going the way of openwolf, I'm pretty sure Buster is most likely just a Jester or a Chaotic Executioner.

post notes: Okay so now that I know Auwt flipped Jester, maybe Gikkle's post had a lot more merit to it than I thought. Going back to the post, you could argue that Renegade did some further distancing in his two posts right after Gikkle's.

Italiano #528 and #529

Italiano flipped town, so looking at these posts makes me wonder. Classic scum tactics would be to kill someone once they give you a townread. The post right after with the whole Ikarus/Frinckles thing is another point of interest for me. I could see a scum world where there's a wolf among Italiano's townreads and possibly one between Ikarus and Frinckles, too. Given my last game, I'm really not confident in my thoughts here. I guess I kind of wish I looked more into Carrot's actual reads last game so that I could've gotten a feel for how to look back on a dead town's reads and make use of them. But in any case, I guess I'm satisfied where I'm at. Based on what I've written above, and where I've left off before it, I think maybe the right PoE is Buster, Renegade, Ikarusdk, and Frinckles. I don't know if it's appropriate to have a large PoE. To me it seems like the larger my PoE is, the more paranoid I am, and the more I am going back to how I was in the last game as Sunset. But I really wanted to include Gikkle and deb (or just deb) here because I feel like they were a point of conflict yesterday and deb's interactions with, eg Ikarus might be telling. But since Ikarus himself is on the PoE and Gikkle I don't really scumread? I think I'm fine with just the four where it's at.

Italiano #531

Missed the part Italiano was talking about here where scum!renegade would eventually show themselves, so I assume Frinckles has a meta on renegade. If we dont see a development on this, ie scum Renegade "never comes" but Frinckles never really comments on it again, then maybe it could imply a Renegade/Frinckles team.

Italiano #535

Just for the record, I don't really agree with this take. Can explain if asked, but I don't want my post to have much fluff.

Renegade #536

This is a bad looking post, but I am tempted to pre-flip him here. Could be a distance attempt from Frinckles.

Now that I'm thinking about it, I'll analyze the possibility of scum being Frinckles, Renegade, and Buster. I don't think this could ever be a 3/3 guess because I feel Frinckles and Buster are both occupying a similar spot on a scum team (assuming they're on one). They're both kinda openwolfy and I just don't really know that there'd be multiple wolves doing that in one wolf team. I guess, in this sense, maybe it would be more useful to flip Renegade than either Frinckles or Buster since it helps give insight into the relationship between both of them. But I guess at the same time, if Renegade was flipped and he flipped green, it'd probably give the least amount of information. So I'm kind of torn.

yoshida #541

Good callout post and I like the part about Gikkle. Maybe I'm just slightly melding.


ikarusdk #542

Discussion is indeed good for the game. But most of your post is kinda just talking to people that scumlean you, and I don't know if that's the kind of discussion you should be dwelling on. Is Buster evil, or neutral? That's not half bad of a conversation. But instead of asking, maybe you should be casing.

ikarusdk #547 and #548

If ikarus and Frinckles are partnered, then they should really be getting an Oscar. I can't really imagine a world where, with all the interactions between those two, that both of them are scum. It's been going on since early game but since it's even continuing after I last posted, I'm not really able to believe anymore that it's fake.

"Mine

Town
Me of course
Gikkle
ItalianoVD

Townlean
Buster
MartinGG99
Renegade
Nancy Drew

Null
Stellaria
Yoshida
Auwt
Clemensthelemon

Scumlean
Loldebite
Frinkckles"

I don't know how I feel about deb being in the scumlean section here. Could be OMGUS for the shade deb gave earlier. But could signify also an unpartnering? Why is Buster townlean???

Renegade being a townlean seems like there's possibly partnership there.

This is Page 11. But I'm going to keep my thoughts live as I approach the pages and catch up with what happened. A bit of the way in I looked at the first post and saw the flips, so that's kind of where my head was after I looked at Gikkle's posts.

First read list by Stellaria - reads well into me, puts Frinckles in Scumlean, leaves me out from his list but then starts hard focusing me from this point on. This whole chain of posts feel very rigid, very forced? I am unsure if I came out as jailor at this point or later, but thing that is certain is that Stellaria paints me hard as scum because I'm probably the easiest target. Note that Frinckles stays in Scumread in Stella's later read list (and these aren't far apart).

Page 12:

- Ikarus and buster probably not partnered #556
- @ikarusdk Could you explain a little more to me about what goes on in turbo? I'm missing something in the meta you have on Buster that I think could explain things to me
- #561 Nah you can't pull that, the rep for my community in champs this year just pulled that
- loledbite #566 I'm sorry, I totally feel at fault for this
- #570 melding
- liking the interactions between deb and yoshida because both sides feel genuine
- what is TWTBW
- #581 suddenly not melding anymore, but maybe I'm tunneled right now
- #587 I kind of want to hear what made deb think this.
- #591 how dare you deb, I thought we were XYZ squad! (okay but actually why am I spewed? I don't understand)
- #594 Alright. I'm not even going to comment on my own role claim plan thing, and give my own thoughts on it. I'm beginning to wonder if you're on another planet or if maybe I'm just missing something.
- #597 I thought you TRed Buster because you had a meta on him? What happened?

Page 13:

- #603 seems like rolehunting, not sure how I feel about this
- @ deb I disagree with your vote but I don't think it's a bad vote given what I imagine your worldview is at that point
- #625 lmaoooo
- #631 in #548 you had Martin as a townlean. I don't really think the justification you gave for this vote is enough to convince me that you actually scumread Martin
- #637 great now I look bad for ripping you apart, is this you trying to tell us something?
- #639 seems genuine as all fuck
- #644 also seems genuine as fuck
- #648 I believe this trio of names is what they call a scumtell in spec chat
- #650 that didnt age well LOL

Hi, I'm awake again. Cleaning the house but I'm not too busy to not fully catch up. I've read a few of the posts since I last posted and I'll provide my thoughts.

More unpairing action between Deb and Ikarus. Given my current thoughts on Deb (Im not fully caught up yet), I don't think both of them are Mafia.

I think I missed why Gikkle could be Chaotic Executioner. But given what we know, I do think it's good to hunt the chaotic executioner. If I'm gathering everything correctly, then limming the CE is going to block the Mafia Nightkill. It's important we do that before Mafia can kill CE so that they don't get an extra kill. If we lim, then whatever power roles we do have get an extra day to do whatever they need to do. Like, we get an extra day to get Caroler results. And with Mafia not killing on that night, then only power roles who perform their actions wont get a result. At that point, that seems worth it to me. However, I also think we shouldn't just drop everything we're doing to hunt the CE. So if we're not reasonably sure about Gikkle being CE, then maybe we should focus on other things.

And since you asked Deb, the Rule of 3 in spec chat basically goes something like this; someone who calls out exactly three names in a post is suspicious. Maybe I'm bad and not understanding it fully, but it's not that serious of a scumtell. Still though, I think the psychology behind it is that it's the easiest number to come to and the Mafia are just going to go with whatever is easiest for them when making fake reads. I don't really know that it could be considered a perspective slip. Though, if you think that all three of the names Renegade left there are town, then that is pretty interesting. Renegade seemed independently scummy. So I'll revisit that idea when I get to catching up.

Speaking of, when I said day, I meant a real life day.

Anyways, I'll start the page review process again later today (irl). But in any case, unless I've missed something drastic (in which case, tell me) then I suppose my current scumreads still hold up.

Scum Leans (least to most likely

Gikkle
Deb
Frinckles
Buster

Scum Reads

Renegade
Ikarusdk

Alright well then I'm just right.

-vote ikarusdk

At this point, I don't care if I die. But it's got to be Ikarus. I'm just gonna call Ikarus and myself the PoE at this point because I don't think it can be deb.

I should've probably noticed this early. But this makes me think that Stella isn't the type to hardpush her teammate in order to distance. She was very lenient on Frinckles, her interaction with Frinckles were very fluid, very social, and even after Stellaria puts Frinckles in Scumlean, she does not pursue this. Instead, she finds reasons to push me. And this view stays till she is shot. My interaction with her was not very social pretty polar opposite to Frinckles-Stellaria, given that I was annoyed she was scumreading me for bad reasons.

Opinions being terrible != no basis for scumreading

And it's not like youve even provided a reason for my opinions being terrible anyway. So if I catch up with the entire thread and my read on you does not change even if I dissect your posts, then you need to do something big for me to change my read on you because this response was awful.

I don't know if this means anything to anyone, but I'm trying to look for reasons in Frinckle's and Stellaria's ISO why I am not associated with them.

[ikarusdk]

this is a preliminary colored VC

non-colored names should be confirmed town I believe (unless there's any typo'ed names there)

Spoiler : :

Frinckles Voted For Ikarusdk 241 1
BusterCannon Voted For Renegade 248 1
ItalianoVD Voted For BusterCannon 256 1
Gikkle Voted For Renegade 319 1
Nancy Drew 39 Voted For BusterCannon 355 1
Auwt Voted For Yoshida 368 1
Renegade Voted For Yoshida 446 1
MartinGG99 Voted For Gikkle 454 1
Gikkle Voted For ItalianoVD 466 1
Gikkle Voted For Auwt 468 1
Yoshida Voted For Ikarusdk 564 1
Ikarusdk Voted For Auwt 610 1
Loldebite Voted For Yoshida 611 1
Ikarusdk Voted For MartinGG99 631 1
ItalianoVD Unvoted 667 1
Yoshida Voted For Loldebite 673 1
Renegade Voted For MartinGG99 701 1
Nancy Drew 39 Unvoted 720 1
Ikarusdk Voted For Auwt 771 1
MartinGG99 Unvoted 822 1
Frinckles Voted For Yoshida 858 1
BusterCannon Voted For Yoshida 860 1
MartinGG99 Voted For Yoshida 870 1
ItalianoVD Voted For Auwt 887 1
Renegade Voted For Auwt 904 1
MartinGG99 Voted For Auwt 922 1
Loldebite Voted For Gikkle 925 1
Nancy Drew 39 Voted For Awt 939 1
Loldebite Voted For Yoshida 946 1
Nancy Drew 39 Voted For Auwt 948 1
Frinckles Voted For Gikkle 979 1
Loldebite Voted For Gikkle 980 1
Renegade Voted For MartinGG99 1057 1
Renegade Unvoted 1058 1
Frinckles Voted For Gikkle 1110 1
Loldebite Voted For Gikkle 1114 1
Ikarusdk Voted For JeremiahSablan 1121 1
Nancy Drew 39 Voted For Loldebites 1165 1
MartinGG99 Voted For BusterCannon 1178 1
Renegade Voted For Stellaria 1192 1
Stellaria Voted For Ikarusdk 1198 1
Frinckles Voted For Gikkle 1207 1
Renegade Unvoted 1216 1
MartinGG99 Voted For Gikkle 1229 1
Loldebite Voted For Unvote 1311 1
Ikarusdk Unvoted 1374 1
Gikkle Voted For Stellaria 1390 1
Yoshida Voted For Frinckles 1478 1
Loldebite Voted For Stellaria 1525 1
Loldebite Voted For Ikarusdk 1583 1
MartinGG99 Voted For Stellaria 1596 1
Loldebite Voted For Unvote 1611 1
Ikarusdk Voted For Gikkles 1620 1
Ikarusdk Voted For Gikkle 1622 1
Stellaria Voted For Gikkle 1662 1
Loldebite Voted For Frinckles 1681 1
Loldebite Voted For Unvote 1768 1
MartinGG99 Unvoted 1801 1
Yoshida Voted For Gikkle 1810 1
Yoshida Voted For MartinGG99 1837 1
Loldebite Voted For Renegade 1871 1
Loldebite Voted For Unvote 1882 1
Loldebite Voted For Gikkle 1885 1
Yoshida Voted For Gikkle 1919 1
Nancy Drew 39 Voted For Gikkle 1922 1
Renegade Voted For Gikkle 1962 1
Gikkle Voted For Skip 1974 1
Gikkle Unvoted 1975 1
Loldebite Voted For Unvote 2027 1
Loldebite Voted For Frinckles 2043 1
MartinGG99 Voted For Gikkle 2046 1
Loldebite Voted For Unvote 2060 1
Renegade Voted For Frinckles 2117 1
Loldebite Voted For Gikkle 2119 1
Frinckles Voted For Unvote 2123 1
Gikkle Voted For Frinckles 2124 1
Renegade Unvoted 2125 1
Gikkle Unvoted 2126 1
Frinckles Voted For Gikkle 2128 1
Loldebite Voted For Frinckles 2133 1
Zenon Voted For Frinckles 2140 1
Loldebite Voted For Frinckles 2158 1
MartinGG99 Voted For Frinckles 2160 1
Zenon Voted For Frinckles 2170 1
Frinckles Voted For Yoshida 2185 1
Yoshida Voted For Yoshida 2189 1
Frinckles Voted For Stellaria 2190 1
Nancy Drew 39 Voted For Frinckles 2192 1
Ikarusdk Voted For Yoshida 2201 1
Renegade Voted For Frinckles 2203 1
Yoshida Voted For Ikarusdk 2208 1
Yoshida Voted For Frinckles 2258 1
Stellaria Voted For Frinckles 2288 1
Yoshida Voted For Ikarusdk 2330 1
Frinckles Voted For Renegade 2433 1
Zenon Voted For Stellaria 2442 1
Renegade Voted For Stellaria 2472 1
Frinckles Voted For Yoshida 2480 1
Frinckles Voted For Renegade 2501 1
Renegade Voted For Yoshida 2516 1
Renegade Voted For Stellaria 2519 1
Frinckles Voted For Yoshida 2524 1
Frinckles Voted For Yoshida 2543 1
Yoshida Voted For Yoshida 2560 1
Stellaria Voted For Yoshida 2569 1
Varcron Voted For Stellaria 2572 1
Yoshida Voted For Frinckles 2578 1
Zenon Voted For Vacron 2584 1
Renegade Voted For Frinckles 2590 1
Varcron Voted For Frinckles 2593 1
Zenon Voted For Frinckles 2601 1
Ikarusdk Voted For Frinckles 2616 1
MartinGG99 Voted For Yoshida 2632 1
Nancy Drew 39 Voted For Stellaria 2635 1
Nancy Drew 39 Voted For Yoshida 2653 1
Ikarusdk Voted For Yoshida 2674 1
Renegade Voted For Yoshida 2678 1
Varcron Voted For Yoshida 2747 1
Yoshida Voted For Renegade 2770 1
Zenon Voted For Yoshida 2816 1
Yoshida Voted For Nancy Drew 39 2892 1
Nancy Drew 39 Voted For Yoshida 2897 1
Nancy Drew 39 Voted For Skip 2930 1

Sidenote took a few extra minutes to figure out because I was including optional quotation marks in the code and apparently this website absolutely hates the quotation marks I was using. So I had to remove them.

Thanks Martin, I appreicate it

[ikarusdk]

I mean, I'd like to think that my entire game play has been pretty independent of how the mafia team had played? Sure, I ended up going along with some of their antics, but it was because of my own shortsightness, not because I was actively engaged in their agenda.

[ikarusdk]

Note, I came out as Jailor much later than the quotes above.

[ikarusdk]

Something I just noticed during quick ISOing the mafia team is, how limited their interaction is with MartinGG. I don't know if it's due to Martin being busy IRL or it means something more significant.

[ikarusdk]

My thoughts on the post: I agree Frinckles is probably just scum. He's playing out of his mind if he's actually a town bomb but I don't think that's feasible. So I'm down to vote there actually

-vote Frinckles

Ikarus said he jailed Yoshida, and Yoshida confirmed it. That alone isn't enough to entirely sway me, but the fact Ikarus was voting for Gikkle so early yesterday makes me feel better about his slot. Like he really was town and just really thought Gikkle was full of shit.

But obviously, I know I'm not scum. So I think Gikkle's results were doctored to some degree. It's not like he knew who the scum were, so if he kept one name from his original list, it's not even like that name, whatever it was, was scum.

Actually, now that I'm thinking on it, maybe he got Deb in his original list, knew Deb was Caroler, and decided to put Deb on the doctored list just in case?

This is the only time Stella votes Frinckles. She quickly changes this view later on to

Fair but if it wasn't doctored then Ikarus is always scum

and holds onto this until she dies.

I don't know if you will take that as distancing/bus, but because I am defending myself here, I'd like to argue that Frinckles/Stellaria don't seem to be distancing/bussing type and if they were, they are quick to rescind it (example above), where as both Frinckles and Stellaria continue to push against me.

This is going to make me sound scummy as fuck and I am very well aware of this fact. But I am going to post all my thoughts/suspicions/frustrations here.

There is no doubt here that Yoshida is scum Gunsmith. His posts EoD and today make very little sense from Town POV and his jail chat log was extremely suspicious. I am not going to be changing my vote today. This slot is 100% mafia and if it's town I am going to eat my words and will accept any abuse that will incur (but tbh this slot basically revealed it themselves). Go back to all their 'read' posts and tell me they do not reeek TMI now that we know who has all the roles. I honestly thought yoshida was a bad CE and this is why I did not question Yoshida until EoD.

Stellaria's name has been in both carols 1)Gikkle and 2)Nancy. Anyone contesting or doubting loldebites Carol claim is auto push. But how confident are we in Gikkle telling the truth and Nancy telling the truth.
I'd say Gikkle had no reason to either help or ruin town game. I don't think he's the type to intentionally screw up town game just for the lols and more confusion. For this reason alone, I am inclined to believe and act on Gikkle's parting words to us. That means, loldebite and stellaria.

Nancy has been pretty towny except she's had moments where she was extremely uncertain. I was not very comfortable with her hesitation on day 3,4. If she was scum with loldebite and pushing Stellaria by faking the carol to include stellaria, then I applaud them because I wouldn't have looked at Nancy as my POE till MYLO situation.

So exactly why are town clearing Loldebite?

I would like Frinckles to give me a serious answer as to why he made that play on Gikkle. And because we are too obsessed with the Frinckles making such outrageous and blatantly scummy play, we are auto clearing loldebite as town. Frinckles did not want to be shot by renegade. Also he wanted me to jail him. I'm trying to figure out why he does not want to die because the whole play was completely suicidal. I don't understand.

I am NOT voting Frinckles today because I do not think his play is AI until he can ELI5 to me especially with Gikkle flipping CE. If Gikkle was town, then Frinckles 1000% has to be mafia. Why waste all that effort and put yourself on the chopping block to lynch CE when killing CE is the goal for mafia?

These are for certain.

Frinckles lied about being carol.
Gikkle said Frinckles is bomb.
Loldebite is carol who gave the songs to Gikkle and Nancy.
Frinckles and Loldebite cannot be t/t also not w/w because I think their pairing with other players make more sense than them bussing each other.

Unless you guys can prove it to me why mafia!Frinckles would pull a suicidal move to lynch a CE, not the actual carol or another PR, I am not going to be able to townclear loldebite. In a world where Frinckles THOUGHT he was doing some superman fancy play shit (in fact that was stupid if he thought it was the case) and he is town, then it makes loldebite and nancy as mafia partners. This take is further supported by the fact that Loldebite wanted to lynch Frinckles yesterday but could not make up her mind between Gikkle and Frinckles, and was VERY ADAMANT that Gikkle and Frinckles were t/w. Also it was loldebite and yoshida that both pressured Renegade to shoot either slot (CE with one vest down is just two nights away from killing CE). If frinkcles gets shot, then it's one town down or two towns down depending on if frinckles was a bomb from their POV. Luckilyl Ren shot the CE (i thought it was a fake gun) not the bomb. Also I know this last bit is a bit of outrageous suspicion, but loldebite easily followed frinckles unvoting Gikkle when Gikkle revealed he was CE. Why would town!loldebite unvote CE there (i know he knew it wasn't going to change anything). At the time of the vote, there were still few players that did not park their vote so if we managed to skip the day, then CE only has one more vest. Also when I voiced my frustration at Varcron/Zenon slot potentially being a mafia member just coating till MYLO, Debs was very quick to shut that idea down and bullied me to move on. This is not a very towny view IMO.

Now moving on to Stellaria. I absolutely have no clue why this slot has this undying obsession about me since day 2. What have I done to deserve such dedication to kill me?

Disclaimer - i know this post has alot of unpopular views that will upset some people and you should take it with a grain of salt, but you do need to understand that we are possibly wrong in our current world view. Just like we were about Auwt and Gikkle.

This is the post following immediately after Stellaria's post. This does shade me in bad light because I am essentially advocating for an alternative scenario where Frinckles did give me the carol, but again this is because I had believed it was the case so I was forced to come up with something that would explain why it might be. At the time I did not know why people thought Gikkle was CE. Actually I remember being suspicious of people calling Gikkle CE because nothing pointed out to me as to why he might be the CE, so it sounded like a TMI? or at least a gambit to paint him as CE as an effort to save him from the lynch. This made sense in my head at the time. Mafia!Gikkle's gambit failed and backfired, now getting pushed so Loldebite was painting him as CE, something I personally did not susepct him to be, and since Scumhunting is better than hunting for CE at that point in the game, it further strenghtened my suspicion that Gikkle's gambit did happen and it ended up failing.

[ikarusdk]

Heck, I don't even know what I'm trying to prove anymore. I don't even know what I'm trying to look for.

[ikarusdk]

I should probably go do some stuff and come back with fresher state of mind.

[ikarusdk]

Underlined: Ikarus' decision, if town, has no knowledge of you being scum. So it has nothing to do with my point.

I don't know who "scum!mr" refers to.



That was exactly my point.

But I've thought about the whole argument more since then and have come to a conclusion that its a misplay both by a mafia Ikarus and town Ikarus to have held his word and jailed you. My original argument was that it was mafia-indicative, but now I feel its more non-alignment-indicative. Details in the spoiler if you want, but if mech is not something you're good at then it may be best not to read it as overall the point is kinda minor if its just "oh Ikarus' jail of you is NAI / doesn't show him to be town".

Spoiler : details :

Let me list the possible outcomes:

Jailing Nancy:

Blocks NK -> throw out Nancy today, always works

Doesn't block NK -> try to convince Nancy to throw out Martin, which is going to be difficult since Martin is Ikarus TR for much of the game

Jailing Martin:

Blocks NK -> throw out Martin, always works

Doesn't block NK -> convince Martin to vote out Nancy, which would be easier given the mutual TRs that Ikarus and Martin have on eachother

If we view today in the form of a hypothetical, whoever Ikarus is pushing is going to be the opposite alignment of Ikarus. Only way the alignments are proven is if the NK is blocked. Hence, with the above possible outcomes of Ikarus' jail, him jailing you was simply a misplay. Both in the case that Ikarus is mafia, and in the case that Ikarus is town. And if its a misplay, I think Ikarus' jailing of you is at best not-alignment-indicative.

Spoiler : details :

Yes I agree it is a misplay if i was scum. I would lik to argue that this is more of a reason to TR me. I should obviously jail whoever I suspect more here because my first priority is to jail the next person I TR less, to prevent NK and find the scum that way. Jailing someone because I'm thinking about who would be easier to lynch is scum line of thinking. FMPOV, with Varcron IC, Nancy vs Martin, if I can jail nancy because I TR her less than Martin, and prevent the NK we win the next day.

[ikarusdk]

Yes I agree it is a misplay if i was scum. I would lik to argue that this is more of a reason to TR me. I should obviously jail whoever I suspect more here because my first priority is to jail the next person I TR less, to prevent NK and find the scum that way. Jailing someone because I'm thinking about who would be easier to lynch is scum line of thinking. FMPOV, with Varcron IC, Nancy vs Martin, if I can jail nancy because I TR her less than Martin, and prevent the NK we win the next day.

But having said that, I understand your point. I jailed Nancy because I believed it was the right choice and also to keep my promise, but I could've thought more into it.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I do wanna say that I've come to learn that Nancy can be a bit abrasive. There's other stuff that ticked me off a bit but given the consistency of their behavior I don't think its intended to be hurtful or anything. It would be nice if they could word things better, but I've grown to learn that its very difficult to change that.

I hope you don't take Nancy's words too harshly Ikarus. You've played really well throughout the game and your team has done so too. You guys while wolfing have to anticipate stuff that is light-years away, because really some of the stuff we're finding on you guys is only because this is the F3 and we know X, Y, and Z. Had it been some other F3, the points that exist today may have not been as apparent or even proven. Not to mention you all had to deal with the pressures of a caroler early on.

I just woke up and am really out of it, so will comment on other stuff later.

For now, I just want to say OUCH to this.

I wasn’t intending to be abrasive or offend, upset or hurt anyone here. Yoshida called me “emotionally unstable” and nobody said that wasn’t okay. I didn’t make a big deal of it but I did consider it below the belt.

I also don’t think my comment about if Ikarus does something to be remotely abrasive because between the chat and last night when I had made that comment, that was my honest impression, so I don’t see why I should apologize for that?

I am sorry if I hurt/upset/offended anyone in this game. Tbf to me, I was efforting so fucking much here only to have people - well other than Lol, Ren and Zen, not seeing it. When I play this obvtown and I’m still getting incomprehensibly sr, I eventually gets to me because I don’t think everyone was critically reading my posts, play:

For example: continually pointing out that Lol’s plan made the most logical sense. It’s extremely frustrating that people were still sr me. There are lots of other things but since I’m IC, there’s not much point in casing myself obviously but there’s damned good reasons that Lol, Ren and Zen tr me that other people weren’t seeing.

And you need to be “abrasive” to some extent. For example, I grilled both Zenon and Stellaria really hard. It helped Zenon to look more townie and conversely Stellaria more scummy. I still have no idea what they (Stella) meant with the comment that they don’t have to take whatever especially from me. I interpreted maybe because I’m new to the site? No idea.

So unless you can provide specific examples, I don’t really think I’ve done anything wrong.

But it is true, my intentions are extremely rarely intended to hurt anyone but I’m human and get frustrated like everyone else.

But I am working on being calmer but it got really frustrating after awhile, because I thought it was really obvious that my play made no sense as scum and I’m not sorry for pushing people hard. Sometimes that’s necessary to make things happen.

I honestly don’t know what more I can say about this but I would really prefer you give me some specific examples here because to make that comment in general. just kind’ve hurt my feelings without actually helping me to know where I could be improving on. \_0_/

[Nancy Drew 39]

I also did say - repeatedly - that I thought Ikarus has played extremely well. What I very much dislike is when I feel manipulated and I will call that out when I think it’s happening and he also brought up Yoshida’s post and that also upset me for the reasons I just explained.

Ftr, I have very much enjoyed playing on this site, this game and the playerlist and am eager to play more games if I am still welcome?

Sorry but that post by Martin kind’ve stings. I appreciate that the intention was to make Ikarus feel better and not upset me but it nevertheless still did.

[Nancy Drew 39]

So Martin, please provide examples to me where you feel “I ticked you off” and hopefully I can explain or rectify my behaviour.

Thanks.
@MartinGG99

[Nancy Drew 39]

Yeah you find yourself having perhaps 15-20 min every 5-6 hours, and tell me I have not 'actually done something'. This is quite insulting to hear that I have not done anything since this morning. I've done my best to answer your questions but because you disagreed with everything I have said, apparently I have done nothing. See why I don't want to spend any more time?

That isn’t what I’ve said at all.

To be extremely clear:

I thought you did plenty until Yoshida flip and fell off from there. I was specifically referring to d6 and d7 until last night. I was specifically referring to you not looking up posts like Martin has.

I in no way intended that to be an insult. I felt really frustrated because it seemed that you were expecting me to agree with you solely based on your opinion and not much else. I even beseeched you to do more like what Martin has done. I also get tilted when I feel manipulated but I’ll try my best to tone that down. I very much 1000% respect your all around play in this game and you as a player. I do think in general, you have played extremely well and if you’re mafia here - which. (remember I haven’t been able yet to critically analyze any new posts about the game) - I’m still currently leaning that way.

I think you’re in an extremely difficult position here because of mech and I sincerely do empathize with that. I in no way intended anything I said to you to be interpreted as an insult. I hope that makes you feel better. I’m truly sorry my words upset you. That was 100% not my intention
@ikarusdk

[Nancy Drew 39]

I will admit that diplomacy is generally not my strong suit and that and tact are things I do sometimes struggle with and am trying all the time to improve upon. I very rarely mean anything ever hurtful or mean spirited by it however.

So again, very sincere apologies to anyone here I have offended.

[MartinGG99]

So Martin, please provide examples to me where you feel “I ticked you off” and hopefully I can explain or rectify my behaviour.

Thanks.
@MartinGG99

@Nancy Drew 39

I think I need to work on my social skills more, I didn't mean to offend you. I didn't mean to single you out specifically, and should've emphasized more the general idea that everyone in general can unintentionally miscommunicate or hurt others accidentally. In other words, I meant that your behavior was expected of a typical human being imo. I don't think oyu've had any malice nor was this miscommunication a cause of you simply not caring. A bit of further explanation:

IRL I am a person on the autism spectrum (specifically Asperger's Syndrome before it was moved into the spectrum), and that meant that I grew up with developmental difficulties in socializing. This isn't say I am trying to excuse any of my behaviors -- they're not excusable. Hurt is hurt, pain is pain regardless if its excused or not. To quote a line I like to keep in mind "...now nobody intended it, but that's what happened". Since I've had more difficulties than others I've made communicating effectively and understanding effectively one of my focuses in life. Eventually I got preety good at doing that, or at least enough to be fully functional in life with respect to socializing, but I soon discovered that a lot of people take communication for granted. They will make mistakes and this is because communication is actually a challenging thing to do. Its very difficult to get it right for most people, and that includes people who aren't autistic. The best way to avoid that is to not take communication skills for granted, but even so one will still make mistakes here or there just as I have made mistakes to you today.

This overall has taught me that some people will just naturally cause offense and without just trying to instruct the whole world on social interactions (which might as well seem very condescending since people take communication for granted), and so I typically accept what happens and then move on. There's also the whole other side of the coin, in which a person much perceive offense in order to be offended. This has happened to me a few times as well, where I felt offended (and perhaps wrongly so) just because someone used a different wording with the same definitive meaning of a common phrase. Had the used the more common wording, I wouldn't have felt offense in those cases at all, so it feels weird to say I would be offended with a similar wording. Humans are complex beings and in order to make communication happen a lot goes on with the brain and different organs of the body. However Humans can be fallible, and honestly, humans having the ability to even sometimes communicate effectively and without offense is a preety significant evolutionary achievement because so many things had to be evolved in order to make that work.

I don't hold any ill will to you (or anyone else in this game for that matter), and was just trying to communicate to Ikarus that idea. I clearly did not achieve that though when I used you as a topic instead of referring to people in general.

As for wondering about what offenses you've caused to me, I don't really recall anything super specific or significant. Like I said, it was more of a general feel of potential abrasion than anything bad or hurtful to me. I think as far as recent stuff goes its just this:

I apologize for getting upset but if it weren’t literally for the mech, I’d probably be sr Martin for that post.

...Which felt like blaming me? I may have misread that one. The other one I can think of was this snippet from a larger post:

I still maintain that we 100% ought to have skipped yesterday and if I vote wrong here, I will blame it on people not listening to me.

Early into the day I tried to emphasize everyone has played well regardless of who wins here. You stating this kinda felt like you didn't care about that idea as much, and so it made me concerned if you were abrasive. Nobody likes being blamed for a loss, y'know. But I do realize you're a very emotional player and were probably just trying to vent somehow here. I didn't bring it up earlier because I figured it would be best for everyone if I didn't, and just tried to re-emphasize my ideas later.

Both of these "mistakes" though I honestly find other people making accidentally. Heck if I were frustrated at the game myself, I may have even made these messages myself.

[MartinGG99]

"a bit of further explanation"

me: goes on to write several paragraphs

[MartinGG99]

Sorry but that post by Martin kind’ve stings. I appreciate that the intention was to make Ikarus feel better and not upset me but it nevertheless still did.

Yeah and I should've known better. I should've wrote more comprehensively about it but I didn't and I paid the price by unintentionally offending you.

I'm a big fan of the idea (though I tend to not expect it of others; its just an ideal) that if a problem happens then that problem should be attempted to solve regardless of people's intentions or responsibilities on it. Like, just because I hypothetically cause a problem with the most wholesome and positive intentions does not excuse myself from trying to fix the problem where I can or where I find appropriate. Also, like, If nobody tries to fix the problem then who will? Feelings should be properly addressed, not dismissed just because harm was caused by good-will.

[MartinGG99]

Oh and if it isn't clear

I do appreciate basically everyone in this game.

Except Clemens. If that was an oliwaz alt then they were never intending to care about the game in the first place.

[MartinGG99]

It must be a weird reading experience for all the spectators to see this day get turned into a discussion about offenses and misunderstandings though lol

But I prefer it that way. I much rather do a F3 in a way that tries to ensure people have the best experience than to focus solely on my objectives. I haven't read a bad F3 in a long time (except for the one I sorta did by 180'ing on my TR a few months ago), but I know F3s can be really bad experience for some people even if things turn out to be a win. I think some of them have been controversial in MU champs history, but I can't recall any off the top of my head.

[Nancy Drew 39]

@Nancy Drew 39

I think I need to work on my social skills more, I didn't mean to offend you. I didn't mean to single you out specifically, and should've emphasized more the general idea that everyone in general can unintentionally miscommunicate or hurt others accidentally. In other words, I meant that your behavior was expected of a typical human being imo. I don't think oyu've had any malice nor was this miscommunication a cause of you simply not caring. A bit of further explanation:

IRL I am a person on the autism spectrum (specifically Asperger's Syndrome before it was moved into the spectrum), and that meant that I grew up with developmental difficulties in socializing. This isn't say I am trying to excuse any of my behaviors -- they're not excusable. Hurt is hurt, pain is pain regardless if its excused or not. To quote a line I like to keep in mind "...now nobody intended it, but that's what happened". Since I've had more difficulties than others I've made communicating effectively and understanding effectively one of my focuses in life. Eventually I got preety good at doing that, or at least enough to be fully functional in life with respect to socializing, but I soon discovered that a lot of people take communication for granted. They will make mistakes and this is because communication is actually a challenging thing to do. Its very difficult to get it right for most people, and that includes people who aren't autistic. The best way to avoid that is to not take communication skills for granted, but even so one will still make mistakes here or there just as I have made mistakes to you today.

This overall has taught me that some people will just naturally cause offense and without just trying to instruct the whole world on social interactions (which might as well seem very condescending since people take communication for granted), and so I typically accept what happens and then move on. There's also the whole other side of the coin, in which a person much perceive offense in order to be offended. This has happened to me a few times as well, where I felt offended (and perhaps wrongly so) just because someone used a different wording with the same definitive meaning of a common phrase. Had the used the more common wording, I wouldn't have felt offense in those cases at all, so it feels weird to say I would be offended with a similar wording. Humans are complex beings and in order to make communication happen a lot goes on with the brain and different organs of the body. However Humans can be fallible, and honestly, humans having the ability to even sometimes communicate effectively and without offense is a preety significant evolutionary achievement because so many things had to be evolved in order to make that work.

I don't hold any ill will to you (or anyone else in this game for that matter), and was just trying to communicate to Ikarus that idea. I clearly did not achieve that though when I used you as a topic instead of referring to people in general.

As for wondering about what offenses you've caused to me, I don't really recall anything super specific or significant. Like I said, it was more of a general feel of potential abrasion than anything bad or hurtful to me. I think as far as recent stuff goes its just this:



...Which felt like blaming me? I may have misread that one. The other one I can think of was this snippet from a larger post:



Early into the day I tried to emphasize everyone has played well regardless of who wins here. You stating this kinda felt like you didn't care about that idea as much, and so it made me concerned if you were abrasive. Nobody likes being blamed for a loss, y'know. But I do realize you're a very emotional player and were probably just trying to vent somehow here. I didn't bring it up earlier because I figured it would be best for everyone if I didn't, and just tried to re-emphasize my ideas later.

Both of these "mistakes" though I honestly find other people making accidentally. Heck if I were frustrated at the game myself, I may have even made these messages myself.

Sorry, I’m not sure how to do spoiler tags yet.

Anyway, I appreciate what you’ve said here and I can relate. I am also neurodivergent with ADHD, Dyslexia and possibly autism as well. It’s true I’m emotional but I offentimes just speak my mind without being aware that it sometimes needs to be filtered as not to come across abrasive.

Wrt the first example you gave. It read to me that you would have tr Ikarus and sr me had he broke his promise to me and jk’d you, which would obviously had meant we’d autolose here.

Wrt the second: As I am the kingmaker it’s 100% on me to vote correctly here and my point was that if I do mess up, it might have possibly been prevented by us skipping the previous day.

So frmpov, both of these seem to be very logical thought processes but I understand how it comes across like I’m shaming or blaming.

To me, it was just stating facts but it’s 100% on me for expressing those thoughts in such an antagonistic way. I was in a game at lylo and voted wrong and one player pretty much racked me over the coals. In that particular game, the mod gave out really crazy roles and that was a huge part of it.

You did clarify later that you were obviously mistaken in alignment reading that decision from Ikarus but yeah I could have said it better but I hope you can understand why the first post weirded me out and as for the blame thing, it was a pre-emptive attempt to avoid being yelled at in case I screwed up. I no longer think that’s particularity likely to happen and another huge problem for me is a lack of confidence.

Anyway, I’m very glad we had this discussion.

[MartinGG99]

Spoiler tags are a bit silly on this website because you have the specify the title of the spoiler.


[spoiler= llike this]
[/spoiler]

or

[spoiler= ]
[/spoiler]

The space is important.


I was able to to show it because the oh-so-wonderful [ noparse] and [ /noparse] commands.