S-FM 350: Chaotic Executioner

[ikarusdk]

Why would scum!Martin even this post as an attempt to frame you? Wouldn’t it make way more sense if he said something about Gikkle’s carol in that case? I don’t see how Martin saying this equals intent to frame?

Because once he makes it clear that I should be the one who logically DIES

but then I DO NOT till MYLO

town will then obviously lynch the one WHO SHOULD'VE DIED.

You've fallen right into Martin's frame and it's frustrating that you don't see it.

[ikarusdk]

@ika usdk waiting on your response to that but that post actually points away from Martin being scum.

thats fine, if you vote me it just means I did not play well enough.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Tell Martin to change it, I don’t have the power to change anything

@MartinGG99 , you need to revote Ikarusdk.

I don’t know understand how Martin’s Ikarus’ vote got changed to Gikkle. Maybe Gikkle has some secret power from beyond the grave.

[ikarusdk]

I must leave now but be back in 30 min or 1 hour to catch up if there are more stuff u wanna discuss but I'm working atm. (well that's at least what I am pretending to do)

[Nancy Drew 39]

Because once he makes it clear that I should be the one who logically DIES

but then I DO NOT till MYLO

town will then obviously lynch the one WHO SHOULD'VE DIED.

You've fallen right into Martin's frame and it's frustrating that you don't see it.

I fully expected you to die as did most of the playerlist including Ren. That’s why he pushed you for your jk confirmation.

Yes, you keep saying that but I’m saying your argument doesn’t support frame. It would support you being nk’d.

As the last living pr, I expected you to die since Lol was the previous night’s nk.

I’m sorry but I don’t see how Martin saying you’re an alignment cop supports a frame up of you. Like I pointed out, it could support an nk of you.

Also, Martin hasn’t made any attempt to make this argument. No one did in fact, including Zen. Martin was leaning it towards it being me (in case of Zen townflip) until it was beyond obvious I was absolutely serious about being jk’d.

[MartinGG99]

I don’t know if I agree with this? This only makes sense if I was scum and I would have hard tunnelled Ikarus as either alignment had he not jailkept me after committing to it. I also doubt that scum!mr would have held his feet to the fire like I did and demanded confirmation, because that would also be scum suicide. I really don’t understand how you’re not seeing that? Iow, I would not have tried to lock that jn as scum for very obvious reasons.

So sorry but I think what you’re saying here makes absolutely no sense to me.

Underlined: Ikarus' decision, if town, has no knowledge of you being scum. So it has nothing to do with my point.

I don't know who "scum!mr" refers to.

Iow, I would not have tried to lock that jn as scum for very obvious reasons.

That was exactly my point.

But I've thought about the whole argument more since then and have come to a conclusion that its a misplay both by a mafia Ikarus and town Ikarus to have held his word and jailed you. My original argument was that it was mafia-indicative, but now I feel its more non-alignment-indicative. Details in the spoiler if you want, but if mech is not something you're good at then it may be best not to read it as overall the point is kinda minor if its just "oh Ikarus' jail of you is NAI / doesn't show him to be town".

Spoiler : details :

Let me list the possible outcomes:

Jailing Nancy:

Blocks NK -> throw out Nancy today, always works

Doesn't block NK -> try to convince Nancy to throw out Martin, which is going to be difficult since Martin is Ikarus TR for much of the game

Jailing Martin:

Blocks NK -> throw out Martin, always works

Doesn't block NK -> convince Martin to vote out Nancy, which would be easier given the mutual TRs that Ikarus and Martin have on eachother

If we view today in the form of a hypothetical, whoever Ikarus is pushing is going to be the opposite alignment of Ikarus. Only way the alignments are proven is if the NK is blocked. Hence, with the above possible outcomes of Ikarus' jail, him jailing you was simply a misplay. Both in the case that Ikarus is mafia, and in the case that Ikarus is town. And if its a misplay, I think Ikarus' jailing of you is at best not-alignment-indicative.

[MartinGG99]

Thanks to you both for making the chat legible. I don’t think it matters a whole helluva lot if I post the entirety of the chat.
@MartinGG99

What I was hoping for from you was to give me your take on Ikarus’ responses to my questions specifically about the Ren kill. Perhaps I should had specifically asked you for that but I kind’ve thought that was obvious.

My response to and comment on that was that I disagreed with Ikarus' assertion about the ren kill being a frame on him. Hence when I posted my own theory about the Ren kill ironically being used to frame me while opening you + zenon more for elimination. Him making the argument that the ren kill was to frame him is a designed argument for the hypothetical where I push him the day after Ren was killed. I think Ikarus even specifically notes how I don't pressure him at all after it. He was expecting me to pressure him, and perhaps one of the better way to be defensive about it is to claim being framed the same time someone is going to suddenly start pressuring you.

He just didn't expect that I would more or less disbelieve the idea that Ikarus was still town and wouldn't poke him.

[MartinGG99]

I have a terrible habit of using negatives and double negatives. I sometimes use them unnecessarily. Fixed.

He just didn't expect that I would more or less disbelieve the idea that Ikarus was still town and wouldn't poke him.

[Nancy Drew 39]

“scum!mr” was a typo. scum!me.


I read your post as implying you would vote me out over Ikarus, which if you’re town here, we lose. So that kind’ve freaked me out.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Tell Martin to change it, I don’t have the power to change anything

@Martin, you need to revote Ikarus because rn, the vc has you voting Gikkle.

[Nancy Drew 39]

• Gikkle (1):
  MartinGG99
  

  ---

  MartinGG99 (1):
  ikarusdk
  
  

[Nancy Drew 39]

• Gikkle (1):
  MartinGG99
  

  ---

  MartinGG99 (1):
  ikarusdk

@MartinGG99 you need to revote.

[MartinGG99]

I still maintain that we 100% ought to have skipped yesterday and if I vote wrong here, I will blame it on people not listening to me.

I was not surprised day didn’t end because Zen’s d6 play really didn’t make much sense as scum but wasn’t confident on anyone else being scum and couldn’t even entertain Ikarus because of role.

Because of the carols, Zenon would have had more motive if scum to frame Ikarus than Zenon because both Zenon and Ikarus were mentioned in the carols and Martin was not, so it’s possible that skip could have led to Zenon getting miselimed one day later and me being that night’s nk.

However, unfortunately because people were so godawful at reading me, I was forced to insist on IC for partially that reason. Had people been reading me properly, I might not have been the ideal IC but because of Varcron’s especially bad takes, I thought it extremely likely that I could be the nk if I didn’t holf Ikarus’. feet to the fire on that. Obviously IC!me is a much bigger threat to mafia than Varcron was.

Zenon's play didn't make much sense, and I agree with that. I was tempted to shift things around but in a game around 1/4th of a year ago I absolutely threw the game as town by voting out my TR in a f3 over a TMI suspicion early in the game. The post-game of it was a fair bit toxic, I'm half-sure that the player I voted out is determined to never play with me any time soon, and I don't want to repeat that. So for my own concerns of the game, I wasn't very willing to explore outside of Zenon being scum unless there was more evidence that I saw supporting that other than Zenon's behavior.

[MartinGG99]

Yep, I'm aware my vote is wrong.

In all likelihood I'll have to fix it again in the future. It's caused whenever I try to manually create chains of quotes like how it happens on MU. The vote-bot here doesn't like it when I do that and one of the quotes has a vote in it.

-vote ikarusdk

[Nancy Drew 39]

If it is Ikarus and I never checked the vc and town lost due to a bizarro glitch, that would be absolutely wild.

[MartinGG99]

Can someone please ISO Stellaria for me, so I don’t have to do everything? Thanks.

Sorry, just really really frustrated and annoyed rn, especially since I’m doing the lion’s share of the posting.

ISOing Frinckles is also fine but the priority is Stellaria.

Sorry if it seems like I'm slacking, but I just didn't have much time. The people I play with have very limited schedules, so the past 8 hours or so was the only time I could play some Heroes Hour with them. Also didn't want to post a lot before that in case you had limited time as well to catch-up and do your own due diligence.

Right now though I literally have nothing to do other than to exist in IRL for the remaining time left in this day phase.

I'll be getting to everything I said I would, including picking whatever quotes I find relevant in Stellaria's ISO that support me.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Yeah, I was leaning to it being Ikarus near EoD yesterday but wasn’t confident on it and his miselim would have been the worst for town.

I would say that I’d probably be hard tr Ikarus had I been jk’d before Ren nk that is until he said that you killed Ren because of his reads but then said he still tr you more. I don’t think that makes logical sense but if scum, he used the chat extremely well.

And now he posts your post as him bring AC as a reason for you to frame him because he didn’t die. That post is a much better argument for you to have nk’d him not frame him.

I think he’s upset because he got essentially screwed by mech, so since this is still plurality and we still have another day. I should probably vote since afaik, votes unlike on MU aren’t locked. And I wouldn’t want to lose the game in case my internet suddenly went out.
@powerofdeath , it’s still plurality and votes aren’t locked, correct?

[powerofdeath]

Yeah, I was leaning to it being Ikarus near EoD yesterday but wasn’t confident on it and his miselim would have been the worst for town.

I would say that I’d probably be hard tr Ikarus had I been jk’d before Ren nk that is until he said that you killed Ren because of his reads but then said he still tr you more. I don’t think that makes logical sense but if scum, he used the chat extremely well.

And now he posts your post as him bring AC as a reason for you to frame him because he didn’t die. That post is a much better argument for you to have nk’d him not frame him.

I think he’s upset because he got essentially screwed by mech, so since this is still plurality and we still have another day. I should probably vote since afaik, votes unlike on MU aren’t locked. And I wouldn’t want to lose the game in case my internet suddenly went out.
@powerofdeath , it’s still plurality and votes aren’t locked, correct?

Nothing changed, as soon as Day 7 end, the votes are locked.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I don’t want to lock in my vote until it’s confirmed that it isn’t until EoD tomorrow night but voting Ikarus is where I’m currently leaning.

I just don’t see why you nk Ren > Ikarus.

I think if Ikarus is scum, scumteam misplayed because it would be a lot easier for say Frinckles or Stellaria to explain not being the nk over Ren. Frinckles - being bomb of course and Stellaria being vanilla.

[Nancy Drew 39]

-vote Ikarusdk

This vote isn’t locked unless my internet dies or something but a no lim today is an autowin for scum but if this was MU or majority lim, I might take that chance and wait.

[MartinGG99]

The room was created10:03 PM
powerofdeath entered for the first time10:03 PM
powerofdeath joined the chat10:03 PM
powerofdeath: Night is only 22 hours long fyi10:03 PM
powerofdeath: dont talk once day start10:03 PM
Nancy Drew 39 entered for the first time10:05 PM
Nancy Drew 39: Hello. Ikarus, ping me when you get in okay?10:06 PM
Nancy Drew 39: Okay, got it.10:06 PM
ikarusdk entered for the first time10:06 PM
ikarusdk: hello10:06 PM
ikarusdk: since you are fine jailed10:07 PM
ikarusdk: it is 100% martin now10:07 PM
Nancy Drew 39: Hi10:07 PM
ikarusdk: im assuming varcron will die10:07 PM
ikarusdk: because10:07 PM
ikarusdk: if they kill me10:07 PM
ikarusdk: it's 2 IC vs martin10:07 PM
ikarusdk: but it's upto you to decide tomorrow, i will say i am town but that's all i can tell you10:08 PM
ikarusdk: you can read back and give me any questions10:08 PM
Nancy Drew 39: Well, we’ll find out tomorrow anyways.10:08 PM
ikarusdk: but i will be voting martin tomorrow and he will be votin gmee10:08 PM
ikarusdk: not gonna be mad if you vote me out10:08 PM
ikarusdk: martin had me pocketed all game10:08 PM
Nancy Drew 39: You need to give me more than that. Martin is going to say the same exact thing to me.10:09 PM
ikarusdk: i don't know what else i could tell you.10:09 PM
ikarusdk: i tried to save yoshida10:10 PM
ikarusdk: and listen to him so we can jail him instead10:10 PM
ikarusdk: but martin did vote him out10:10 PM
ikarusdk: martin had me pocketed all game10:10 PM
ikarusdk: he was hesitant on zenon but in the end he also voted zenon out10:10 PM
ikarusdk: he also voted gikkle out10:10 PM
ikarusdk: idk if im remembering correctly though

reading back in Ikar's ISO, it does seem fairly accurate that Ikarus wanted to save Yoshida and actively advocated for that approach of jailing him after Stellaria got shot

I voted Yoshida out because my main worldview was that Yoshida was the 3rd scum. With Stellaria and Frinckles flipped mafia, it seemed to click perfectly that Yoshida was scum based on his play during the Frinckles vs Gikkle battle. Recognizing bomb exists, asking people to shoot the bomb, while Yoshida was (if mafia) a 2nd mafia PR --- giving mafia reason to push Gikkle into the abyss if they want to. The mafia play (wherein the mafia were Frinckles/Yoshida/Stellaria) during that day made a lot of sense if they didn't expect Gikkle to reveal who were the PRs.

If I were mafia though I probably join the "let's white knight Yoshida" group and then kill him as soon as I can after killing a town!Ikarus. Even if I didn't prioritize killing him, It would be quite unlikely, but not impossible, that I would get shot by one of the gifted guns imo.

[ikarusdk]

Yeah, I was leaning to it being Ikarus near EoD yesterday but wasn’t confident on it and his miselim would have been the worst for town.

I would say that I’d probably be hard tr Ikarus had I been jk’d before Ren nk that is until he said that you killed Ren because of his reads but then said he still tr you more. I don’t think that makes logical sense but if scum, he used the chat extremely well.

And now he posts your post as him bring AC as a reason for you to frame him because he didn’t die. That post is a much better argument for you to have nk’d him not frame him.

I think he’s upset because he got essentially screwed by mech, so since this is still plurality and we still have another day. I should probably vote since afaik, votes unlike on MU aren’t locked. And I wouldn’t want to lose the game in case my internet suddenly went out.
@powerofdeath , it’s still plurality and votes aren’t locked, correct?

I don't mind losing the game, because I tried and myabe was not good enough.

[Ate] But I am upset that you just simply refuses to see the truth no matter how evident it is. Yoshida was right. Nancy, I don't think you are the type to have a quite an open mind about things. Once you make up your mind, you simply tunnel too hard into it and everything else becomes blank. You don't read and try to see where I am coming from. You keep asking the same questions I take my time to answer, and in the end you refuse to take them because you 'disagree'. This is why yoshida was angry and now that I'm on the receiving end, I can tell where he was coming from. Hope you can learn a few things after this game ends. I am all finished now. I think it's pointless for me to continue because nothing I say will get into you.[/AtE]

At least I won't be receiving any hard criticism in any future games with Martin.

Honestly though, just park a vote here and ask the host to enable hammer. If the host wants to then he will.

See you both in the post game chat.

[ikarusdk]

-vote powerofdeath

Not sure if this is allowed, but I am done.

If the other also agree, would you consider enabling hammer please.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Sorry if it seems like I'm slacking, but I just didn't have much time. The people I play with have very limited schedules, so the past 8 hours or so was the only time I could play some Heroes Hour with them. Also didn't want to post a lot before that in case you had limited time as well to catch-up and do your own due diligence.

Right now though I literally have nothing to do other than to exist in IRL for the remaining time left in this day phase.

I'll be getting to everything I said I would, including picking whatever quotes I find relevant in Stellaria's ISO that support me.

Very much looking forward to this, thanks.

[ikarusdk]

-vote powerofdeath

Not sure if this is allowed, but I am done.

If the other also agree, would you consider enabling hammer please.

oops

@powerofdeath

-vote MartinGG99

[MartinGG99]

I still strongly disagree and what tilted me was the unstated implication that you would have tr him and sr me and since I’m IC, would you have voted me out in that case

Yup. Probably. If he had said he would JK you but then actually JK'ed me, there would be a preety significant chance that I vote you out.

I'm sorry if you find that offensive. Part of it is as I've said recently, I have a tendency of not going back on my reads late-game unless there's good substantiation for it. I would be quite disappointed myself if you were scum and I voted out Ikar, and it probably would offend Ikar for me to do that in a F3.

Come to think of it though, you probably would've brought up the Ren kill in which case that kill does make almost the least amount of sense for someone like you to make.

[Nancy Drew 39]

reading back in Ikar's ISO, it does seem fairly accurate that Ikarus wanted to save Yoshida and actively advocated for that approach of jailing him after Stellaria got shot

I voted Yoshida out because my main worldview was that Yoshida was the 3rd scum. With Stellaria and Frinckles flipped mafia, it seemed to click perfectly that Yoshida was scum based on his play during the Frinckles vs Gikkle battle. Recognizing bomb exists, asking people to shoot the bomb, while Yoshida was (if mafia) a 2nd mafia PR --- giving mafia reason to push Gikkle into the abyss if they want to. The mafia play (wherein the mafia were Frinckles/Yoshida/Stellaria) during that day made a lot of sense if they didn't expect Gikkle to reveal who were the PRs.

If I were mafia though I probably join the "let's white knight Yoshida" group and then kill him as soon as I can after killing a town!Ikarus. Even if I didn't prioritize killing him, It would be quite unlikely, but not impossible, that I would get shot by one of the gifted guns imo.

Still don’t understand his plan for saving Yoshida but I just thought it didn’t make a whole lot of sense to me that he wanted to do skip for Yoshida but not Zenon.

[MartinGG99]

https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showt...943#post986943

Post 2663.

'opens up the opportunity for ika to be framed' - because ika should obviously die as alignment cop

I said this before Stellaria died so

If I were mafia, I then knew you wouldn't have become an alignment cop upon the death of Yoshida. I couldn't have even predicted a framing argument this earl unless I anticipated Stellaria getting shot.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Yup. Probably. If he had said he would JK you but then actually JK'ed me, there would be a preety significant chance that I vote you out.

I'm sorry if you find that offensive. Part of it is as I've said recently, I have a tendency of not going back on my reads late-game unless there's good substantiation for it. I would be quite disappointed myself if you were scum and I voted out Ikar, and it probably would offend Ikar for me to do that in a F3.

Come to think of it though, you probably would've brought up the Ren kill in which case that kill does make almost the least amount of sense for someone like you to make.

Yeah, I 1000% kill the jk-cop here, especially in this type of setup where factional kill is an automatic clear for jk’d player.

[MartinGG99]

I've read everything up to this point.

Off to reading ISOs more.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I don't mind losing the game, because I tried and myabe was not good enough.

[Ate] But I am upset that you just simply refuses to see the truth no matter how evident it is. Yoshida was right. Nancy, I don't think you are the type to have a quite an open mind about things. Once you make up your mind, you simply tunnel too hard into it and everything else becomes blank. You don't read and try to see where I am coming from. You keep asking the same questions I take my time to answer, and in the end you refuse to take them because you 'disagree'. This is why yoshida was angry and now that I'm on the receiving end, I can tell where he was coming from. Hope you can learn a few things after this game ends. I am all finished now. I think it's pointless for me to continue because nothing I say will get into you.[/AtE]

At least I won't be receiving any hard criticism in any future games with Martin.

Honestly though, just park a vote here and ask the host to enable hammer. If the host wants to then he will.

See you both in the post game chat.

So my being wrong about Yoshida makes me also wrong on you? What “evidence”?

The evidence points to it being you and if there’s any either pointing away from it being you or towards Martin, you haven’t provided it.

AtE is meaningless here because pretty much all of your arguments amount to: either this nia thing or even town indicative thing point to Martin being scum because you say so.

Change my mind.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Aldo, Martin is scanning the game for other players’ posts and your single post that you referenced, points away from your frame theory and away from Martin being scum.

[MartinGG99]

Stellaria never mentions me, and in the few cases they do, they appear to be discussing other people's reads of me.

I personally don't find this AI in any which way in other games. Honestly I tend to find it a bit scum indicative as it could be TMI that I am wolf and not a threat to them.

But that's just how they've handled me. I don't really know why they never really looked into or spoke about me. Maybe they wanted me to be killed at some point during the night and that they wouldn't have to actually read me.

[powerofdeath]

oops

@powerofdeath

-vote MartinGG99

If all three people agree on ending the day early, reply to this post with green YES.
Otherwise day 7 will last 48 as usual.

[MartinGG99]

If all three people agree on ending the day early, reply to this post with green YES.
Otherwise day 7 will last 48 as usual.

Nancy (or whoever has the final YES) can decide to end this whenever they want. I'm in no rush at all, and don't mind waiting till the end like normal, but I do know Ikarus is mafia.

YES

[ikarusdk]

So my being wrong about Yoshida makes me also wrong on you? What “evidence”?

The evidence points to it being you and if there’s any either pointing away from it being you or towards Martin, you haven’t provided it.

AtE is meaningless here because pretty much all of your arguments amount to: either this nia thing or even town indicative thing point to Martin being scum because you say so.

Change my mind.

You refuse to take in new info and alter your view because you already made up your mind. I've already presented number of 'evidence' but look where it got me. Why would I bother anymore. Look everything you have posted today. It's been a repetition of 'ika why this and that' and i give you explanations then you basically 'no i disagree and in my mind makes no sense so you are scum'. NEVER ONCE have you thought you were wrong (because you have never been wrong right?), or whatever does not make sense makes sense from my pov. So yeah I'm done. If you want to change your mind, then go read everything I posted with a blank slate and you can decide but I refuse to take what limited time i have to repeat bscially the same thing only for you to say no that makes no sense because i disagree.


Just ask the host to allow hammer I want to go to death chat. I'm tired of this back and forth with no success and it's just dragging along.

[ikarusdk]

YES

[Nancy Drew 39]

Aldo, Martin is scanning the game for other players’ posts and your single post that you referenced, points away from your frame theory and away from Martin being scum.

If I’m wrong, show me something other because that’s my opinion. Show me the posts implicating him or something or pointing away from you.

[Nancy Drew 39]

You refuse to take in new info and alter your view because you already made up your mind. I've already presented number of 'evidence' but look where it got me. Why would I bother anymore. Look everything you have posted today. It's been a repetition of 'ika why this and that' and i give you explanations then you basically 'no i disagree and in my mind makes no sense so you are scum'. NEVER ONCE have you thought you were wrong (because you have never been wrong right?), or whatever does not make sense makes sense from my pov. So yeah I'm done. If you want to change your mind, then go read everything I posted with a blank slate and you can decide but I refuse to take what limited time i have to repeat bscially the same thing only for you to say no that makes no sense because i disagree.


Just ask the host to allow hammer I want to go to death chat. I'm tired of this back and forth with no success and it's just dragging along.

We both know this isn’t true. I specifically asked you to provide this so-called “evidence” you speak of. You just continue to AtE and berate me where as Martin is actually looking up posts.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I will possibly consider ending the day earlier but Martin says he still has more posts, so I want to read them but Ikarus’ reaction to my vote looks very scummy to me.

I made it clear my vote was in the extremely unlikely case my internet dies and you just freak,out, AtE and berate me, instead of actually DOING something to try to convince me.

Ignoring everything else, I don’t think that reaction is town indicative because it simply isn’t true. And Yoshida was actually doing things but you’re not, so for you to say I’m ignoring evidence here is patently disingenuous on your part.

[Nancy Drew 39]

You refuse to take in new info and alter your view because you already made up your mind. I've already presented number of 'evidence' but look where it got me. Why would I bother anymore. Look everything you have posted today. It's been a repetition of 'ika why this and that' and i give you explanations then you basically 'no i disagree and in my mind makes no sense so you are scum'. NEVER ONCE have you thought you were wrong (because you have never been wrong right?), or whatever does not make sense makes sense from my pov. So yeah I'm done. If you want to change your mind, then go read everything I posted with a blank slate and you can decide but I refuse to take what limited time i have to repeat bscially the same thing only for you to say no that makes no sense because i disagree.


Just ask the host to allow hammer I want to go to death chat. I'm tired of this back and forth with no success and it's just dragging along.

You won’t be going to dead chat because it’s lylo, so don’t even know what you’re talking about here.

[ikarusdk]

I will possibly consider ending the day earlier but Martin says he still has more posts, so I want to read them but Ikarus’ reaction to my vote looks very scummy to me.

I made it clear my vote was in the extremely unlikely case my internet dies and you just freak,out, AtE and berate me, instead of actually DOING something to try to convince me.

Ignoring everything else, I don’t think that reaction is town indicative because it simply isn’t true. And Yoshida was actually doing things but you’re not, so for you to say I’m ignoring evidence here is patently disingenuous on your part.

I've done all I could do. I took my spare time off to go read Martin's ISO and you continued to ask me for specifics why I scum read him, which I replied that I could not find anything and you were scum pointing me for it.
You asked all those questions and I answered them as much as I could and what did you do

You kept saying it makes no sense and asked pretty much the same question.

Seriously go back and read my post. You are NOT READING THEM.

But I don't want to be fighting here, this is simply a game. I'm frustrated yes, but there is no reason for me to get angry. I'm tired and I just want the game to be over because I cannot convince you. If you make the wrong call and lose the game with your vote, I take full responsibility because I failed to convince you. There.

Just type yes and let's be done.

[ikarusdk]

I've got alot of stuff to do, and if what I've done is not enough to convince you, then I am sorry. I am just not good enough to scum read a perfect town play.

[MartinGG99]

https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showt...340#post985340

There's a fair bit of focus on Ikarusdk. The linked post above is too big to quote. For the below quotes, I color the ones that are posts by Ikarusdk which Stellaria is referring to.

Page 12:

- Ikarus and buster probably not partnered #556
- @ikarusdk Could you explain a little more to me about what goes on in turbo? I'm missing something in the meta you have on Buster that I think could explain things to me
- #561 Nah you can't pull that, the rep for my community in champs this year just pulled that
- loledbite #566 I'm sorry, I totally feel at fault for this
- #570 melding
- liking the interactions between deb and yoshida because both sides feel genuine
- what is TWTBW
- #581 suddenly not melding anymore, but maybe I'm tunneled right now
- #587 I kind of want to hear what made deb think this.
- #591 how dare you deb, I thought we were XYZ squad! (okay but actually why am I spewed? I don't understand)
- #594 Alright. I'm not even going to comment on my own role claim plan thing, and give my own thoughts on it. I'm beginning to wonder if you're on another planet or if maybe I'm just missing something.
- #597 I thought you TRed Buster because you had a meta on him? What happened?

Page 13:

- #603 seems like rolehunting, not sure how I feel about this
- @ deb I disagree with your vote but I don't think it's a bad vote given what I imagine your worldview is at that point
- #625 lmaoooo
- #631 in #548 you had Martin as a townlean. I don't really think the justification you gave for this vote is enough to convince me that you actually scumread Martin
- #637 great now I look bad for ripping you apart, is this you trying to tell us something?
- #639 seems genuine as all fuck
- #644 also seems genuine as fuck
- #648 I believe this trio of names is what they call a scumtell in spec chat
- #650 that didnt age well LOL

A bit of back-and-forth but none of the messages are really in a positive light while some of them are negative.

I looked into the timing of these quotes more, and these were made before the carol result claim by Gikkle. So its not like Stellaria had any reason to look specifically for Ikarusdk posts, but it seems with the carol results Stellaria just locks in later with a vote on Ikarusdk. They also mention one more thing a bit later in the day that Loldebite would be unpaired with ikarusdk.

[MartinGG99]

https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showt...340#post985340

There's a fair bit of focus on Ikarusdk. The linked post above is too big to quote. For the below quotes, I color the ones that are posts by Ikarusdk which Stellaria is referring to.






A bit of back-and-forth but none of the messages are really in a positive light while some of them are negative.

I looked into the timing of these quotes more, and these were made before the carol result claim by Gikkle. So its not like Stellaria had any reason to look specifically for Ikarusdk posts, but it seems with the carol results Stellaria just locks in later with a vote on Ikarusdk. They also mention one more thing a bit later in the day that Loldebite would be unpaired with ikarusdk.

After thinking about it more, I don't think I can make any sort of cohesive argument on this other than general experience in playing with scum, but even then that might be a stretch.

I did want to share in case Nancy had any insights about it pointing one way or another.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Your argument is that Martin tried to frame you but that post points away from that.

ISO Frinckles and Stellaria. I expected you to quote some posts in chat. I kept checking back but you never followed up and with the sole exception of that one post, you still haven’t.

And if you’re town, you don’t want to pressure me to end the game early, especially since I’m currently voting you. Martin isn’t.

Three players in this game have tried to manipulate me in such a way: Gikkle, Stellaria and now you.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I've got alot of stuff to do, and if what I've done is not enough to convince you, then I am sorry. I am just not good enough to scum read a perfect town play.

You has been doing plenty before Ren nk, that’s why I ignored the mech elephant in the thread initially but your play fell off after that.

[MartinGG99]

After thinking about it more, I don't think I can make any sort of cohesive argument on this other than general experience in playing with scum, but even then that might be a stretch.

I did want to share in case Nancy had any insights about it pointing one way or another.

Actually, I can.

The fact that Stellaria locks in the vote on Ikarus later, based on their previous suspicions, instead of defending themselves or suspecting Gikkle likely implies that they thought the Carol was real and accurate. Hence they wanted to vote out ikarusdk in order to save themselves. Additionally, if Ikarusdk is actually town in this situation, Stellaria is committing suicide on what they thought was a real Carol that was not messed with.

First quote shows Stellaria locking in on finidng Loldebite as town and Ikarus as mafia. The two quotes after it are some time after it. Its only later does Stellaria realize its possible the Carol was messed with, and then tries to say Ikarus hypothetically could flip town.

Alright well then I'm just right.

-vote ikarusdk

At this point, I don't care if I die. But it's got to be Ikarus. I'm just gonna call Ikarus and myself the PoE at this point because I don't think it can be deb.

@ikarusdk I guess it would also be suitable if you could convince me that Gikkle was evil.

I'm not trying to fuck shit up. But if, say, Ikarus actually DID flip green, and he does seem good for his Jailor claim, then both you AND I are fucked.

[MartinGG99]

Gikkle either you entirely missed all of my content, or you misinterpreted everything I've said up to this point, or you're scum and you're taking every advantage that you can. So, so super easy to just say that none of my content is ever worth looking back on. But you're biased. You hard TR Ikarus (and WHY even do that to begin with?) I made some good points against Ikarus in my catchup posts that you seem to like to completely ignore (at least, I think they're good)

And you also entirely missed all of the context behind that list of reads that I had. I had some feelings that there could possibly be scum between you and Deb because of the interactions you'd had before. It wasn't something I wanted to dismiss yet but I didn't individually think either of you were scummy. I mean, I had a bunch of thoughts about who could be paired or unpaired in that post. But I had figured who I thought the scum could be between and I listed out those people. I kept you and deb on there specifically because if all of my other choices were wrong, I was pretty confident it could be either you or Deb. Now I'm considering your slot again. I'm still going to just vote Ikarus. I hard SR him more than anyone else but if he flips green then I think I'd rather vote you than deb

This can be summed up as, from Stellaria's perspective:

"I think Gikkle is quite suspicious, but I'm still going to vote Ikarus. If he flips green though then Gikkle was lying about the Carol"

Then, 1 hour and 20 minutes later:

a) I got the job so Im feeling confident
b) fuck it

-vote Gikkle

(even later)

That's my point Gikkle. You're not going to be swayed. Either you're incredibky biased for Ikarus and you're super (opposite of tunneled) on Ikarus for what seems like 0 reason, to the point of thinking any case against him is scum, or you're his partner. And I'm inclined to think the latter, and that you included his name to give yourself credit if he ever flipped.

Conveniently, Gikkle is Chaos Executioner / non-mafia and gives a potential out for Stellaria to retract and lessen their stance against Ikarusdk.

[MartinGG99]

annnnd that's exactly what they did

Okay, hold on a sec. Gikkle flipping CE was a surprise to be sure, but a welcome one.

Obviously, Gikkle got the real carol. But we can't really prove for certain that his results were real, can we? I'm thinking Gikkle probably hand-picked at least two of his claimed results. And he was hard pushing me. Considering we know Ikarus and Deb were power roles, then I'm thinking he didn't push Deb because it wouldnt be convenient to do so and he didn't push Ikarus because he thought Ikarus was Mafia. I'm assuming he thought I was town