So it's just lol and he wplfslipped by thinking there wasn't on mech wolf,?
Which I guess is the whole point of the tailor accusation
It's not a strict mech confirmation (forgot tailor) but yes it's extremely likely that you're not t/t both from mech and in the thread posting.
We should also probably decide on a voting order.
It's much less important without locked votes but it's still more useful than not having one.
Green : it WOULD reveal something on s!mizery tho...
Orange : simple, getting coached/copiloted is easier. Mizery does seem a bit lazy like me in that aspect, but I'm too much of a paranoid fuck to actually let anyone do the copiloting.
pink is just MM being scum lol
I've only read the last paragraph ftr, the fact that there's so much I dislike about it already makes me think I should review it whole
I should've paid more attention, I feel like t!MM doesn't make excuses for people nearly as much as s!MM but I'm not actually certain this feeling is accurate
Deb can you talk to me about your read on Miz please?
Feel free to talk about your read on me if you'd like to, I'm more familiar with that one though.
Ftr I an willing to answer questions about my main account if it helps people who don't know me solve me more easily.
Don't want to see any excuses later saying that you couldn't ask me stuff.
@deathworlds how would you self describe your wolf game? Are you stronger as one alignment than the other?
Also what account were you using in the anon wolf game you linked me please.
Sure
Making excuses on someone else's behalf, as I said in the following post, I know for a fact that s!MM does this. It might not actually be as AI as I think it is, because I'm not sure he doesn't do it as town.so it might have been more of a dissociation from a mislynch than anything else
Spreading doubt on a basis that looks really thin to me, invest cop is info which is info which is important.I'm not so sure about this
Same issuemeaning the investigator's results wouldn't even matter
This is MM saying I'm scum without him saying I'm scum, AND it's a twisted recounting of events, completely ignoring EoD 1.which is basically what is happening at the moment, for the record
More doubt spreading through quite the oversimplification. I mean I get that mizery's a good player, but not even considering the psychological stress of responsibility is still a bit doubtful.That is just indicative of scum
Admitedly, I'm reading this after you've told us that she in fact avoids responsibility for NK, which makes it probably look worse than it was.
Specifically I want to know where it stands but if you could also answer for everything that'd be great.
In generally if you could just splurge as much of your solving thoughts in the thread as possible please. If you're town then you should vomit every little thought into the thread and make it absolutely impossible for anybody to misvote you today.
I'll keep driving this home. If you are a villager in the PoE and especially if you are a villager in Deb/DW then you should be trying your absolute hardest to make it impossible for you to be seen as mafia. The way to do that isn't by defending yourself or attacking others - it's by solving in the thread and splurging every thought in as much detail as possible.
Go into excessive detail about everything. Make it impossible for anybody to think that you're anything but town. Do what mafia can't replicate.
How does MM approach scumbuddies? Is he the type to come in and distance immediately at the start of D1?
For the last point about Miz's tied vote, something else I neglected to mention in MU meta.
MU is pretty laid back when it comes to things like this. You'll get people tying wagons for the fun of it, lots of memeing and trolling and occasionally straight up gamethrowing, lots of off topic discussion, lots of thread spamming (if there's not an upper cap you can expect individual players in competitive-ish scenarios to post upwards of 500 times a day phase). That's barely scratching the surface and not all relevant right now but the whole lax mentality in general and especially about letting things go to RNG is something that's probably notable to mention (which is part of why I didn't immediately think that Miz letting it rand was outing in a vacuum even if it was a confusing play to me within context even with my MU meta knowledge).
Fair point.
Historically I've had trouble reading mizery, so I had her as completely NULL/question mark for the vast majority of D1, as EoD approched I got confident she was town but the rand made me doubt it. At the start of D2 I was suspicious of her as a result and her firsts reactions didn't seem very towny to me to the point where I thought she was scum at one point, but that de-escalated quickly and I'm now quite confident that she's town, partly because I'm confident in your hability to read her, that you had her as town, and that I'm extremely confident you're town yourself.
Yeah, makes sense. I haven't taken nearly as much notes as I wish I had because I got lazy.
OH I JUST REMEMBERED THAT I PLAYED AN ACTUAL SCUM GAME ONCE, found out when reviewing FM notes. It was a very weird & bastard setup with 5 neutrals and no proper mafia team, and everyone that died had a 1 shot use of a gun that could :
- convert target to neutral ;
- kill target ;
- resurect you somehow I don't recall how exactly ;
- do nothing.
The resurection mech was incredibly awful to play with and I think pretty much everyone quickly lost interest. I'd link you to the game, but it was the first game played of deckmafia.games but the site is discontinued and AFAIK the games there are forever gone. Kinda doubt the game would've been interesting to look at, anyway, it really was a painful game. At one point I posted that (I wrote it down beforehands because I was at a point where I really didn't care about what'd happen much) :
"This game is a fucking nightmare, I would never have envisioned that the resurrection mechanic would be that much of a pain in the ass. It feels like we're making no progress, at all. Oh, and then you remember that resurrection doesn't conserve alignment so you realize that we're actually making negative progress.
Pretty sure 3Ps have better odds of winning than town, now, so just shoot me. Actually, you know what, just shoot me."
Damn, the Deck Mafia site is down? Somehow that news never got to me. Although tbf that's partially because I had no interest in DM myself.
Thanks for the response Deb.
Ignoring my take on Miz (which is probably less confident than you're assuming - I'm not a historically great Miz reader), what do you feel about her so far?
Thoughts on her EoD1 in particular? That's by far the strongest thing I have on her being town rn but I want more opinions on it.
I personally think that MM has posted well and had several micro towny moments.
He also gave by far the best responses yesterday to my D1 thoughts question although tbf that was partially an issue of communication on my end I think and not making it clear what I wanted people to post. Still, I felt like what he was saying was logically consistent and I could completely believe how he came to his stances and opinions even if I didn't necessarily agree.
Theres just nothing there that screams "this is always a villager" to me in the way that Miz's EoD1 possibly does and that's why I've been focusing on her over MM so far.
It's also just a lot easier to try to solve a player I know well and have been in games with as both alignments (Miz) than one I barely know at all (MM).
@Marshmallow Marshall
What have you done this game that you either couldn't replicate as scum or that you wouldn't ever attempt to do as scum (as it would be bad play)?
You can assume that your scum partner is one of Death or Deb for answering this.
Vote order is something we need to discuss:
The first two players to vote should crossvote each other. The game is over in a mafia victory is both players are town. This cross should almost always be Death/Deb on the basis of them mechanically and socially almost always containing at least 1 mafia.
From that point voting should be done in order of consensus most likely mafia to consensus least likely mafia.
This shouldn't be done last minute. As votes are cast, new info is revealed that may need time to be discussed and leaving it to the last minute risks town players possibly not bothering to vote at all which is a frustratingly common occurrence.
Also, once you cast your vote you should treat it as locked in (unless you take it back extremely quickly but be aware that misvoting at all can let the scum team quickly hammer and win). There is no town benefit to switching your votes once they're cast and you simply need to vote a villager once to immediately lose.
Deb and Death should obviously be the first votes unless there's a good reason to believe that they shouldn't be the cross today.
I'm not sure who I'd like to vote third out of Miz and MM yet. I'd obviously like to vote last.
If we all can't agree on a voting order we can always all submit our preferred order and average it out to decide.
I guess I should want DW & MM to vote ASAP ?
Haven't really thought about it tbh
I don't recall how many games I've been in with mizery exactly, but in the one I remember best she was scum, and she was nowhere NEAR tryharding as much as she seemed to be near EoD 1. She was in president too but I have a hard time remembering everything james madison did from a "that's mizery" perspective and tbh I cba reviewing the entire game solely for that purpose.
Actual active solving
more solvy probing
That looks a bit like AtE but I think it fits mizery's character and it's still solving.
Most probably NAI because again it fits her character IMO but I want to think it's especially genuine
Calling DW out for the throw AtE
Kinda reminds me of how mizery acts when she's in a game with lumi, which I think is good looks ?
I'm overall not very confident in the read if I ignore your take on it, ngl. I've had terribly inaccurate reads on mizery AFAIK
Regardless of if he is voting first or not, we should plan the votes so that @deathworlds always casts his vote when he shows up today.
We can't afford to all be sitting around waiting for him to can't the first vote if he won't show up again after that until just before EoD, if at all.
Also puts less pressure on him since he's sick which I totally get.
You're correct in that I have also never seen Miz try like EoD1 as scum. She seems to be pretty content to just blend in usually. Although tbf her town game was very similar for a long time as well and I'm not confident if it's an overall playstyle/ improvement thing or a town indicative thing now.
Do you think active solving is something that is difficult for Miz to fake though?
The shade on me is very mildly towny. Scum!Miz certain wants to try to pocket me as much as possible in this game.
The snarkiness is more of a town AI thing for her to my understanding.
Mostly NAI I'm guessing but I find this pretty amusing .
Yeah, if you basically look at what I've written the best I have outside the obvious thing is a lot of low-level meta reasons that suggest that she's in her town game.
My general rule of thumb is to mostly discard low-level meta reasons on people in lylo / late game (I have some on MM as well so obviously some are wrong), they can easily be skewed by perspective / biased, puck up things that either aren't AI or can be replicated with mild improvement and are often just pretty =rand accurate when applied.
What about her EoD1? Do you think she's likely to actively let it rand if Death is her partner and just claimed investigator? Important context is that she was the second vote on the Death wagon at the point where the only wagon with >1 vote was Miz herself and that the whole Miz/Death w/w thing had just happened in the thread.
vittae why are you still pretending that mm can be a wolf with a partneer who isnt death
Or are you saying they're unaligned for non-mech reasons?
If so please tell me because that's incredibly important if you think there's a strong social unalign there.
Please, Miz
I've tried really hard to try to get a read on your alignment and you've ignored all my questions since SoD2.
Then you come in D3 and just repeatedly ask me the same question while still ignoring my questions to you.
What are you doing? I was really excited to play with you this game but it's harder to work with you than it us with the player who's only available to post in the thread while I'm asleep.
On the topic of Death's scans.
N1 - Deb, Tailor
N2 - MM, Cit
Assuming Death is town:
We know for a fact thanks to ikarus that MM was not targeted by a mafia coach driver on N2. This is possible to have happened on N1 with Deb but unlikely and basically just turns out the same way as an operator would.
In both cases there is a possible Operator, Bartender or Coward (I forgot this one but it's very unlikely Deb is a Coward and targeted their Tailor scum partner so in this case MM would be the Coward).
Tailor (Deb) + Any Role (Miz)
Tailor (Deb) + Coward (MM)
Tailor (Any Scum) + Operator/Coach Driver (Any Scum)
Any (Any Scum) + Bartender (Any Scum)
I think this is what it's narrowed down to in terms of scum roles in a town-Death world? So basically scum would need to have either a Bartender, a Tailor + Operator/Coach) combo or Deb to just be a Tailor (and MM a Coward if he's the partner).
Especially with how much I've talked about things you should know i don't fully commit to mafia games ever and expecting me to do so just because you're in the game even tho i have little time as always is silly
I don't have a tonne to add until people start showing up.
Death/Deb > MM > Miz > Vittae is my current preferred voting order.