@Stealthbomber16
Could you clarify your reads? Unless @Yayap cares to give some reasoning as to why its a bad idea to have direction from the semi-confirmed town block >.>
@Stealthbomber16
Could you clarify your reads? Unless @Yayap cares to give some reasoning as to why its a bad idea to have direction from the semi-confirmed town block >.>
Intellectual growth comes from discussions, not arguments. If you are unwilling to change your position and hear the other persons side you are closed minded and wasting your time.
If you can not clearly explain what the other sides reasoning is you can not disagree with their position because you do not understand it.
So the basic problem as I see it.
7p made up of 2 confirmed, 3vt 1priest, 1 scum with 3 town lynches
Now if the Priest revealed it would mean the 3vt would have a game solve but they would also be in the PoE going from a 3/4 (75%) shot to a 3/3 (100%) shot. The 2 confirmed town would get less from it taking their pool from a 3/5 (60%) shot to a 3/4 (75%) shot (unless CC which would be game over.)
At any point a successful heal outside of Stealth/Guillo means game over for the scum. This is also a big deal with the scum either choosing to chew at the town block or risk total loss by killing outside of it and risking that heal. But killing inside of the block means the priest lives to heal another day and they are shooting 50/50 for desperately needed kills.
I think we should just play some basic follow the cop. Yes our 2p town block will be batting at 60% 'but' if 1/5 is going to hit on priest which will force a reveal. That reveal either gets CC'ed putting a 50/50 which is also a lock town win today or tomorrow or it shifts the NK. So that 60% is rather understated and I feel like we can hit over RNG given the players in this game.
I will pop back in later but I do feel like our town block needs to start acting like a town block given the game state for our best chances at winning. Otherwise the PoE will end up trying to drive it risking some substantial TvT ego nonsense the way discussions have been going and I would rather avoid getting the measuring stick for the weenie contest.
Given that everyone outside of the PoE is looking at 4 options with 3 lynches @ikarusdk @Mizery @luona @Yayap out of Myself, Ika, Mizery, Luona and Yayap what order would you prefer the 3 lynches to happen? Would you be willing to sheep Stealth/Guillo given this reasoning?
Intellectual growth comes from discussions, not arguments. If you are unwilling to change your position and hear the other persons side you are closed minded and wasting your time.
If you can not clearly explain what the other sides reasoning is you can not disagree with their position because you do not understand it.
Just to add a hellish level of WIFOM on the night actions-
The scum player 100% has to kill a player in the town block in the next 2 days. If they shoot in the town block and the priest is covering its a 50/50 making their safe play taking 2 shots within there for 25% overall priest coverage over 2 days.
If they shoot outside of it and kill the non priest after a misslynch tomorrow we would be left with 2 confirmed town and a pool of 3 with a priest claim and two town lynches- This would be mechanically game over requiring priest to claim. CC or not the pool would be either 2 unconfirmed or 1v1 priest claims which is a town win either way.
So will the scum risk the 50% chance of killing Guillo or Stealth over 2 days or risk a 75% chance of not hitting the priest which = game over (Assuming misslynch)? I feel like the safe play for the priest is also covering the town block.
Intellectual growth comes from discussions, not arguments. If you are unwilling to change your position and hear the other persons side you are closed minded and wasting your time.
If you can not clearly explain what the other sides reasoning is you can not disagree with their position because you do not understand it.
Anyways. Done talking to myself for a bit. Will be back after people start playing and such but I do think playing follow the cop will hamstring the last scums ability to push the game with strong odds of a town win even if our town block turns their brains off and goes with RNG eliminations.
Intellectual growth comes from discussions, not arguments. If you are unwilling to change your position and hear the other persons side you are closed minded and wasting your time.
If you can not clearly explain what the other sides reasoning is you can not disagree with their position because you do not understand it.
Feel free to ask me anything if you want. Kinda wish more of the players were.... playing...
I still kinda want to do an Iso of Oliver at least but I feel like I have been throwing too much effort into a game everyone is super complacent on at this point. Im not big on interactions but man... Not even a squeak about analysis or potential mechanical crunches is not great.
Intellectual growth comes from discussions, not arguments. If you are unwilling to change your position and hear the other persons side you are closed minded and wasting your time.
If you can not clearly explain what the other sides reasoning is you can not disagree with their position because you do not understand it.
If I knew D2 was going to go like this I would have faked a scum slip or something to generate content like we were breaking RVS.
Intellectual growth comes from discussions, not arguments. If you are unwilling to change your position and hear the other persons side you are closed minded and wasting your time.
If you can not clearly explain what the other sides reasoning is you can not disagree with their position because you do not understand it.
I'm so glad that you worded it like this because that means that this was not intentional.
Please explain what the highlighted part (your bait) is referring to for me, and then explain why offering a counterwagon "bait" was actually a play that was in town's best interest.
I found this in your ISO when I was looking for the aforementioned bait and I just want to touch on it.
I recently played a scum game with Mizery and they were completely and entirely absent from the chat. They made very few posts, very little commentary, and deferred all action selection to the rest of us. I believe that this was a special circumstance for Mizery, who at the time was going through a tough period, but I am in no way ruling out Mizery for missing the Guillo claim- even completely ignoring the possibility of it being a fake miss.
I kind of already did. I could probably pull rants outside of the game that reflects my view on the subject but I did very clearly explain it here:
Here is where I opened that door:
This was me creating a way for a team mate to push against their lynch simply by poking me on the subject. It would have been an alignment indicator.
I also edged in that direction here:
Again creating an opportunity for someone to poke at the potential for a last second vote shift by expressing I was simply 'ok' with the lynch and that a counter wagon would be a positive thing for the town.
I believe the best traps are subtle. The ones that do not interrupt game flow and require attention grabbing gambits. You simply create people the opportunity to make decisions. In that situation it would have been a bad move for me to make an actual counter wagon but suggesting I was neutral on the lynch while pointing out why the reasoning for the lynch was bad and suggesting I wanted a counter train seemed like a good play. I hedged both statements mentioning how nobody touched on why the inconsistency was a scum tell in the slightest, pointing out the ATE reaction which nobody seemed to mention and mentioning how creating a counter train last minute would prevent people from weighing in to deal with questions after the fact.
To be blunt if I was scum I could have nailed a truckload of reasoning on why we should lynch Oliver to the wall for the town cred. Just so you can read me better here is a bit of my thoughts on the hard bus
Just with the players in the game I think Guillo was in that game and Yayap had a conversation with me quite a few years ago on how strongly I valued a deep wolf play.
Past that if you want to read me I generally work to discredit strong town voices to power wolf. In that same guide draft I quoted you could look at the "Seeding aligned indicators with town" and "Seeding distrust/ setting up lynches in advance" bits and ask yourself if I am doing either. Im playing some really basic low level mafia this game even if I am the only one pushing the mechanical crunch.
Intellectual growth comes from discussions, not arguments. If you are unwilling to change your position and hear the other persons side you are closed minded and wasting your time.
If you can not clearly explain what the other sides reasoning is you can not disagree with their position because you do not understand it.
You may have missed my interaction with Yayap shortly after where I said this:
To be clear I hunt for town slips every bit as hard as I hunt for scum slips. I personally find town slips to be more reliable because not many people fake them or even recognize they are a thing.
That said, Why are you excluding Ikarusdk? They may be new but they do have Lumi in their ear (I do have to admit I want them to be the scum so I can say I did a 100% game solve 3 hours after jumping into a game D1)
Intellectual growth comes from discussions, not arguments. If you are unwilling to change your position and hear the other persons side you are closed minded and wasting your time.
If you can not clearly explain what the other sides reasoning is you can not disagree with their position because you do not understand it.
im sorry for being so not here i dont like being wagoned : ((
Intellectual growth comes from discussions, not arguments. If you are unwilling to change your position and hear the other persons side you are closed minded and wasting your time.
If you can not clearly explain what the other sides reasoning is you can not disagree with their position because you do not understand it.
Intellectual growth comes from discussions, not arguments. If you are unwilling to change your position and hear the other persons side you are closed minded and wasting your time.
If you can not clearly explain what the other sides reasoning is you can not disagree with their position because you do not understand it.
I finished work just now but I've been reading through posts during work.
I still believe in what I put down previously before day 1 lynch, although aside from the top 3, the rest are more or less feelings rather than conclusions I came to based on evidence. I do stand by my reasoning in previous posts, but I still need to think harder why I believe Luona and Mizery are on my scum list.
Stealthbomber16
Guillo-Yapyap
Helz
Mizery-Luona
I am going to ask Lumi if I can play without her coaching in my next one because I do feel uncomfortable this comes up to question in every page, and I feel this is unfair for you if you had to consider Lumi while reading my posts. Please feel free to ask Lumi post game how much input she's had in this game, I think this should be done before I participate the next game so you can gauge how I am so you can better read me. This should make subsequent games more comfortable for everyone.
-vote Luona
Unless something solid forms in my head, I'm locking in Luona. It does make me feel uneasy though with my vote that she isn't trying to defend herself or redirect votes to somewhere given Oliver went out this way.
I would rather see Luona participate more.
For that matter where is @Guillo ? Took the position of town leader with that claim and walked into lynching the hard derping wolf. We could really use some leadership from a skilled confirmed townie to prevent the game from drawing into a lurk fest that sleeps through 2 lynches and flails at LYLO.
Game tempo does not change Im probably just going to start trolling and throwing you some coaching stuff that will be useful in later games.
For one thing on that note its crazy literally nobody has bothered to make any takes about the confirmed dead mafia's posts. In a game where people were more motivated that would be a pretty big priority.
Intellectual growth comes from discussions, not arguments. If you are unwilling to change your position and hear the other persons side you are closed minded and wasting your time.
If you can not clearly explain what the other sides reasoning is you can not disagree with their position because you do not understand it.
I think your gona do well man. Still rooting that your evil so my D1 guess was a slam dunk but your kinda a natural at this and will make a very strong player once you get a feel for how things work.
Just so you know my attention on you has nothing to do with Lumi being behind you. If I was you I would just roll my eyes at the subject and not apologize. It should not be a defining factor in peoples reads.
Intellectual growth comes from discussions, not arguments. If you are unwilling to change your position and hear the other persons side you are closed minded and wasting your time.
If you can not clearly explain what the other sides reasoning is you can not disagree with their position because you do not understand it.
I didn't even think to go back and read his posts again
You wana go for it do it bro.
By reading others people will be able to read you better. You could do an in-context iso where you read through the entire thread and generate notes as you go or you could just iso them and grab whatever snags your attention.
Theres lots of different techniques I am sure Lumi can throw at you but in general putting in some leg work does wonders to get you read correctly if you are town. If you are a wolf you gotta pick and choose how you say what you say. Unless I am doing some FPS shit I generally do not care how I am viewed and so long as I am pushing for the town its other peoples fuck up if they don't read me correctly. Take that approach and if you communicate well and you will be able to clear yourself unless a power wolf is gunning for you most of the time.
Intellectual growth comes from discussions, not arguments. If you are unwilling to change your position and hear the other persons side you are closed minded and wasting your time.
If you can not clearly explain what the other sides reasoning is you can not disagree with their position because you do not understand it.
Thank you for your kind words. I am trying my best, although I am finding less and less time to pay attention every day. I don't worry too much about it. I just take it as a compliment from everyone but it does feel uncomfortable knowing what others might be thinking. So I still think you should ask her after the game finishes.
If nothing else read the basic tells in this https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showt...f-Scum-Hunting
What your looking for is association tells. Often team scum avoid interactions so if this was not a tiny game with very few posts I could try to crunch that by looking at who has had minimal interactions with Oliver but has spoken about them/ for them.
Then from Olivers side who has he voiced what about. Team scum also often hedge positions on etch other but its something meta comes into play with and you have to WIFOM out. So like.. My question to him as he was getting lynched he answered people he felt should be next. You could WIFOM out if he was shading townies or maybe trying to distance himself from a team mate.
Valid fucking questions this town is just not interested in examining (Judgmental stare @ town)
Intellectual growth comes from discussions, not arguments. If you are unwilling to change your position and hear the other persons side you are closed minded and wasting your time.
If you can not clearly explain what the other sides reasoning is you can not disagree with their position because you do not understand it.
If I had to guess your statement that she is just answering questions is probably right. She is very principled like MM.
I just do not like assuming and when I coached someone I threw them truckloads of stuff to work with. The fact Yayap is a high level pro and does not believe you are new given your play you should just take as a complement.
Intellectual growth comes from discussions, not arguments. If you are unwilling to change your position and hear the other persons side you are closed minded and wasting your time.
If you can not clearly explain what the other sides reasoning is you can not disagree with their position because you do not understand it.
Its always going to just be feelings. If your serious about getting better re-read your games afterword's to see what you missed or what you did that allowed others to catch you.
Takes a bit of time but that alone will make you a much better player than everyone who just stumbles through games and moves onto the next one.
Intellectual growth comes from discussions, not arguments. If you are unwilling to change your position and hear the other persons side you are closed minded and wasting your time.
If you can not clearly explain what the other sides reasoning is you can not disagree with their position because you do not understand it.
I may not be around for the end of the day. My friends suggested they may want to BBQ at my house and if that happens I won't be posting.
I genuinely think everyone should just do some follow the cop and that the priest should protect Guillo/Stealth for best chances. If the scum kills outside of those two and does not hit the priest its game over so the 4p remaining if we misslynch is a low protection priority while it forces the scum into a 50/50 that insulates the priest.
If nothing else anyone that understands the deductive logic behind that should be able to recognize my alignment just from pushing that strategy.
Intellectual growth comes from discussions, not arguments. If you are unwilling to change your position and hear the other persons side you are closed minded and wasting your time.
If you can not clearly explain what the other sides reasoning is you can not disagree with their position because you do not understand it.
Intellectual growth comes from discussions, not arguments. If you are unwilling to change your position and hear the other persons side you are closed minded and wasting your time.
If you can not clearly explain what the other sides reasoning is you can not disagree with their position because you do not understand it.
Intellectual growth comes from discussions, not arguments. If you are unwilling to change your position and hear the other persons side you are closed minded and wasting your time.
If you can not clearly explain what the other sides reasoning is you can not disagree with their position because you do not understand it.
(moar judgmental stares)
Im dun...
Intellectual growth comes from discussions, not arguments. If you are unwilling to change your position and hear the other persons side you are closed minded and wasting your time.
If you can not clearly explain what the other sides reasoning is you can not disagree with their position because you do not understand it.
I didn't miss it. Just offering a different point of view.
I play in a similar vein but I strongly disagree with you calling that a "town slip".
Ikarus's posts and reads, particularly prior to the elim of oli, have aligned extremely closely with my own.
My read on Ikarus has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that they are new. They're playing extremely well.
The shadow hybrid with Lumi is having significantly less impact than you think it is. I seriously doubt Lumi is spoonfeeding ikarus reads to post in the thread as any alignment. I did shadow hybrid a new player, once upon a time, and the way it works is that you just help your player explain their reads and give them directions on where to look next when they get stuck.
My reads and gameplay tend to be "does this make sense for a townsperson to think/say/act like?" Oli? Didn't make a lick of sense. Luona coming in, making a single post, and leaving doesn't make any sense.
I have fully understood everything that ikarus has presented thus far in his reads, depthwise. He has provided several interesting points of information to the table that make a lot of sense for him to have identified. There's not been a single ounce of holding something back or mechanical shenanigans the way that Guillo or yourself have been using. It's just straight up admirable, honest townplay. Can that be faked? Absolutely, that's how I play deepwolf. Do I think that's happening here? Absolutely not. And I'm willing to eat those words later.
Im not sure if its a formal thing now. I think the concept came up in a skype conversation years ago and there was an entire game of coaching archons. That was my only experience and I believe it was the first of its kind either on any other site or on this one. In that one I did quite a bit more than just answer questions.
But that speaks to my experience. If you were not confirmed I would question why you would not have corrected that yourself for other people this game.
Intellectual growth comes from discussions, not arguments. If you are unwilling to change your position and hear the other persons side you are closed minded and wasting your time.
If you can not clearly explain what the other sides reasoning is you can not disagree with their position because you do not understand it.
Intellectual growth comes from discussions, not arguments. If you are unwilling to change your position and hear the other persons side you are closed minded and wasting your time.
If you can not clearly explain what the other sides reasoning is you can not disagree with their position because you do not understand it.
So for Yayap I felt like he noticed something specific that he did not mention. Pretty much why I have not messed with him. Poke me on it tomorrow and I will explain if we are both alive.
As time goes on if he does not step up and push I would be more suspicious of him. He is generally a strong town leader and did not have a subtle presence D1 but he was on the right lynch.
Intellectual growth comes from discussions, not arguments. If you are unwilling to change your position and hear the other persons side you are closed minded and wasting your time.
If you can not clearly explain what the other sides reasoning is you can not disagree with their position because you do not understand it.
Tell the truth and you'll lie good.
I think its as simple as Mizery/Luona
My ego hopes Ika could be it but I am not holding my breath
Yayap is very low on my list. Still hoping he is gona jump in and step up soon because D2 has been a lurkfest. The important thing I see for the game state is that we are in a numbers game. The town has 3 lynches if Priest fails all the way. If scum hits off your town block they loose so priest is going to run 50/50 most likely. Who knows with the amount of attention people are paying.
Intellectual growth comes from discussions, not arguments. If you are unwilling to change your position and hear the other persons side you are closed minded and wasting your time.
If you can not clearly explain what the other sides reasoning is you can not disagree with their position because you do not understand it.
If thats what you want but you get very low credit for the D1 lynch. That guy shot himself in the foot so hard I could not even spin a trap.
If you want to push that your the best snag the scum. Its not like you really need reads now that I lined you up with a 3 lynch out of a 5p with a 50% heal rate. This game should be a low effort slam dunk for you.
Might want to weigh in on the mechanical crunch if nothing else if your just going to kick your feet up so people get behind a unified strategy.
Intellectual growth comes from discussions, not arguments. If you are unwilling to change your position and hear the other persons side you are closed minded and wasting your time.
If you can not clearly explain what the other sides reasoning is you can not disagree with their position because you do not understand it.
Really though. You don't get to reveal as the mayor then refuse to lead.
Intellectual growth comes from discussions, not arguments. If you are unwilling to change your position and hear the other persons side you are closed minded and wasting your time.
If you can not clearly explain what the other sides reasoning is you can not disagree with their position because you do not understand it.
Intellectual growth comes from discussions, not arguments. If you are unwilling to change your position and hear the other persons side you are closed minded and wasting your time.
If you can not clearly explain what the other sides reasoning is you can not disagree with their position because you do not understand it.
So @Stealthbomber16 whom are we killing?
Tell the truth and you'll lie good.
Noooo dude.
Do not walk away and act like you made your contribution to the game and playing is not your problem.
You revealed and made yourself the confirmed town block. If you have other games going or whatever thats cool. If you want to pass it off to Stealth and lurk thats your call but I don't credit much to that first lynch.
Before you go lurk look at the fucking town strategy and either voice support or say it sucks so we can move forward. Do not walk away and act like this game is no longer your problem because 1 scum was lynched.
At the very least look at the mechanical crunch and unify the town before you walk off and hang it on Stealth.
Intellectual growth comes from discussions, not arguments. If you are unwilling to change your position and hear the other persons side you are closed minded and wasting your time.
If you can not clearly explain what the other sides reasoning is you can not disagree with their position because you do not understand it.