S-FM 336: (Ladder) Politico II

[MartinGG99]

Politico II
S-FM 336

Setup Link

Signup Link
(for additional game information by me)

Player List

Host ISO	Player	Role (Phase)
ISO	Marshmallow Marshall
ISO	NotPaopan
ISO	Lag
ISO	Gikkle
ISO	Loldebite	Voter (N2)
ISO	PQRnHack
ISO	oliverz144
ISO	Frinckles	Voter (D1)
ISO	Voss	States Attorney (D2)
ISO	Guillo	Voter (N1)
ISO	Renegade
ISO	Stealthbomber16

EoD Links
EoD 1
EoD 2


SoD1 Countdown Link

Something-something a thing to allow fake-claims (without threat of angle-shooting) if that ever happens, as I used different wording in the PMs.

Spoiler : Role-card stuff :

Spoiler : Congressman :

You have access to an anonymous chat with two other congressmen!

You won't receive the Anonymous Chatzy chat link until SoD1.

Spoiler : Governor :

You may pardon someone each night. A pardoned player cannot be yeeted the next day. You can't target the same player twice in a row, nor can you self-target. This is announced at the start of day.

Spoiler : Judge :

Each night you may target a player, making their vote count for 0 the next day. This is announced at the start of the day.

Spoiler : Mayor :

You're fake-claiming what now?

Spoiler : States Attorney :

You may target someone at night, placing an anonymous vote on them. This will be announced on the next day, and cannot be changed until the next night. You may self-target and target the same person in a row.

Spoiler : Medic :

You may protect someone each night. You may self-target. If you successfully save someone, you cannot do so again. If you do, you are informed but your target is not (unless you are the target).

Spoiler : Voter :

You have no special abilities.

[MartinGG99]

Start of Day 1


Day 1 ends in about 48 hours from now.
Countdown Link

7 votes to hammer.
Renegade is the mayor with 2 votes.

[PQRnHack]

Alright, time to sweep it. I promise there will be no voter fraud!

-vote Renegade

[MartinGG99]

I forgot to add in mentions. Day 1 has begun!


@Marshmallow Marshall
@NotPaopan
@Lag
@Gikkle
@Loldebite
@PQRnHack
@oliverz144
@Frinckles
@Voss
@Guillo
@Renegade
@Stealthbomber16

[Lumi]

Hello everyone, I am the real mayor, Renegade is an imposter Mayor.

This is my rolecard as proof:

Spoiler : Mayor :

You're fake-claiming what now?

Check the OP and you'll see I have the right rolecard

-vote Renegade

[PQRnHack]

Hello everyone, I am the real mayor, Renegade is an imposter Mayor.

This is my rolecard as proof:

Spoiler : Mayor :

You're fake-claiming what now?

Check the OP and you'll see I have the right rolecard

-vote Renegade

Weak!

[Lumi]

Weak!

No! It can't be! The entire mafia team been caught in just 3 posts by the mastermind FM player PQHack?!?

I can't believe it! This is truly another level of FM play, a true generational talent.

[Renegade]

Hello everyone, I am the real mayor, Renegade is an imposter Mayor.

This is my rolecard as proof:

Spoiler : Mayor :

You're fake-claiming what now?

Check the OP and you'll see I have the right rolecard

-vote Renegade

FUCK i've been outed.

[Lumi]

Renegade just changed his profile picture, this is obviously extremely alignment indicative.

I'm not going to say if it's town indicative or mafia indicative, because it's so obvious that it should go without saying, but everyone knows what Renegade is now.

[Renegade]

I've not even reached my final form.

[PQRnHack]

Renegade just changed his profile picture, this is obviously extremely alignment indicative.

I'm not going to say if it's town indicative or mafia indicative, because it's so obvious that it should go without saying, but everyone knows what Renegade is now.

The mastermind used his pig brain to figure this out.



Extra attack power from the factional kill ability!!

[Stealthbomber16]

I CC mayo

[Stealthbomber16]

My contribution today will likely be spotty at best but I'll try to make all of my posts (following this one) quality posts at the very least.

[PQRnHack]

I'm gonna go out on a limb and hypothesize that there are 3 corruptors here, thinking 2 PRs and 1 Congman/Voter (Cong kinda makes more sense for a scum 3rd wo/man). Town then has 3 PRs.

[oliverz144]

-vote lag

I meta know lag as well as my pocket
This 3 posts completely contradict the usual neutral-smart town game play
This is not rvs
Town lag would already come up with a plan
Now i need to jump in, gimme some time.
We have 2-3 scum
1 of them is lag.

[oliverz144]

I think that claiming who is congressman is very towny
Only scum will say no
So i think that every congressman should claim immediately

[oliverz144]

Sa, judge, governor should claim aswell
Only medic and voter shouldnt claim

[Lumi]

-vote lag

I meta know lag as well as my pocket
This 3 posts completely contradict the usual neutral-smart town game play
This is not rvs
Town lag would already come up with a plan
Now i need to jump in, gimme some time.
We have 2-3 scum
1 of them is lag.

It's funny that you think the posts I've made thus far have been alignment indicative.


I also don't think oliver is able to pull off a post like this as wolf, I think this is the fastest >>rand town read I've ever had

[Voss]

I hate RVS and would rather talk strategy. I guess I'll reread the setup, since I just skimmed it.

Also a couple of things:
First, don't burn yourself out and/or have unrealistic expectations for people's contributions. There's a difference between a lurking scum, and someone who is making good posts, but not talking a lot. So when you are frustrated with the lack of contribution at 3am PST, get a grip, and reread/summarize the game instead of asking "wHeRe Is EvErYoNe? DeAd GaMe!!!!". It'll help you, and help those not able to spend 25/8 on the forums.

Second, since we're playing with the ARCANE early hammer system, I will refuse to vote until end of game. You can assume that whoever I put first in my "vote order bird vote" list is the person I'd vote for. Don't like it? Vote me, petition the host to change it, or bite me.

Gotta say I like oliverz here on the Lag meta read.

[Voss]

Oh, ren is actually the mayor. Missed that with the trolling.

Governor, states attorney, and judge aren’t really worth commenting right now bc they haven’t had time to do an action.

This is something I'd like to discuss though:
I don’t see why congresspeople should ever talk in the day/night chat. Scum will only use it to figure out who not to kill.

[NotPaopan]

It is I, the town leader of this town.
You can call me Mr. Chairman
I shall and will give town the salvation it needed!

We must learn to look at problems all-sidedly, seeing the reverse as well as the obverse side of things.
In given conditions, a bad thing can lead to good results and a good thing to bad results.

[NotPaopan]

New things always have to experience difficulties and setbacks as they grow.

It is sheer fantasy to imagine that the cause of socialism is all plain sailing and easy success, without difficulties and setbacks or the exertion of tremendous efforts.

[PQRnHack]

You can call me Mr. Chairman

Here comes Pao, planting an Easter Egg in his first post. RED IS ALWAYS MAFIA!

[PQRnHack]

I think that claiming who is congressman is very towny
Only scum will say no
So i think that every congressman should claim immediately

Why would a scum~congressman say "no" if the opposite makes them "very towny"?

Or even if scum have 0 CMEN, doesn't it help them narrow down the remaining pool to PRs and Voters (making mafia's PR hunt easier than out of the pool of PR+Voters+CMEN)?

[PQRnHack]

New things always have to experience difficulties and setbacks as they grow.

It is sheer fantasy to imagine that the cause of socialism is all plain sailing and easy success, without difficulties and setbacks or the exertion of tremendous efforts.

Pao Zedong detected!!! Corrupted impostor amogus!!

[NotPaopan]

Here comes Pao, planting an Easter Egg in his first post. RED IS ALWAYS MAFIA!

Stop scum painting me!

The colour red is a fiery symbol that interprets happiness, beauty, vitality, good luck, success and good fortune!!

[Stealthbomber16]

Oh, ren is actually the mayor. Missed that with the trolling.

Governor, states attorney, and judge aren’t really worth commenting right now bc they haven’t had time to do an action.

This is something I'd like to discuss though:
I don’t see why congresspeople should ever talk in the day/night chat. Scum will only use it to figure out who not to kill.

This is actually kind of interesting.

I would assume always that the host would put one scum congressman in the chat. I think that any host would do that. So if you approach the chat as though it's like a final 3 scenario, ie, there is one imposter among us, I don't see why it would be a bad thing. Creating further information disadvantage for town is never something that benefits the town.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

I think that claiming who is congressman is very towny
Only scum will say no
So i think that every congressman should claim immediately

Yeah, considering any scum within congressmen will be able to share the knowledge with his scummates, this could make sense. It's not like there is a real benefit to remaining hidden anyway, at least none that I can see.

Sa, judge, governor should claim aswell
Only medic and voter shouldnt claim

Uh, no? Why in the world would you want the PRs to claim lol, they're just going to get gunned down. The medic only has one successful save charge. The setup was designed not to be solvable via massclaim (and to even punish it). So no, absolutely not.

I like the meta point against Lag, though. I'm not sold about it yet obviously, but it certainly is a great way to start the game. Plus, Lag is always super towny, so I get the chance to vote them for once

-vote Lag

[Marshmallow Marshall]

I hate RVS and would rather talk strategy. I guess I'll reread the setup, since I just skimmed it.

Also a couple of things:
First, don't burn yourself out and/or have unrealistic expectations for people's contributions. There's a difference between a lurking scum, and someone who is making good posts, but not talking a lot. So when you are frustrated with the lack of contribution at 3am PST, get a grip, and reread/summarize the game instead of asking "wHeRe Is EvErYoNe? DeAd GaMe!!!!". It'll help you, and help those not able to spend 25/8 on the forums.

Second, since we're playing with the ARCANE early hammer system, I will refuse to vote until end of game. You can assume that whoever I put first in my "vote order bird vote" list is the person I'd vote for. Don't like it? Vote me, petition the host to change it, or bite me.

Gotta say I like oliverz here on the Lag meta read.

Refusing to use the tool to put pressure on people and generate information that way is a little dumb, tbh. I will go with the option "biting you", since this is not AI, it's just sad and suboptimal.

Also, WHERE IS EVERYONE?!! : ]

[Marshmallow Marshall]

It is I, the town leader of this town.
You can call me Mr. Chairman
I shall and will give town the salvation it needed!

We must learn to look at problems all-sidedly, seeing the reverse as well as the obverse side of things.
In given conditions, a bad thing can lead to good results and a good thing to bad results.

I almost want to say that you're towny by meta for this, considering your last game as Mayor in Once Upon a Town in the West. But seriously, please drop it. I was scum, and I can say you were a blessing for us because you distracted everyone. Please integrate thoughtful content in your posts. Else, you will be deemed lazy and antipatriotic, and will thus be sent to the nearest gulag. Thank you.

[Frinckles]

hi

[Lumi]

Yeah, considering any scum within congressmen will be able to share the knowledge with his scummates, this could make sense. It's not like there is a real benefit to remaining hidden anyway, at least none that I can see.


Uh, no? Why in the world would you want the PRs to claim lol, they're just going to get gunned down. The medic only has one successful save charge. The setup was designed not to be solvable via massclaim (and to even punish it). So no, absolutely not.

I like the meta point against Lag, though. I'm not sold about it yet obviously, but it certainly is a great way to start the game. Plus, Lag is always super towny, so I get the chance to vote them for once

-vote Lag

This vote pings me.

It's one thing to see oliver making a read like that and realizing there is almost no way he makes a post like that as wolf, therefore you think oliver is town.

It's another thing to see the post and actually agree with it, because the accuracy of the read is quite bad. I can link several games directly contradicting the meta read - and considering that you were in multiple of those games, the fact that you go along with a meta read that you should know is just wrong is dubious.

But the real kicker is the hedgy "not sold about it yet" - it's RVS, you can vote whatever, feeling like you have to justify/hedge a vote made not even 25 (player) posts into the game feels like a wolf that's trying to not step on toes here.

[Lumi]

hi

Hi Frinckles

[Guillo]

I hate RVS and would rather talk strategy. I guess I'll reread the setup, since I just skimmed it.

Also a couple of things:
First, don't burn yourself out and/or have unrealistic expectations for people's contributions. There's a difference between a lurking scum, and someone who is making good posts, but not talking a lot. So when you are frustrated with the lack of contribution at 3am PST, get a grip, and reread/summarize the game instead of asking "wHeRe Is EvErYoNe? DeAd GaMe!!!!". It'll help you, and help those not able to spend 25/8 on the forums.

Second, since we're playing with the ARCANE early hammer system, I will refuse to vote until end of game. You can assume that whoever I put first in my "vote order bird vote" list is the person I'd vote for. Don't like it? Vote me, petition the host to change it, or bite me.

Gotta say I like oliverz here on the Lag meta read.

This player is scum

[Guillo]

How do i multiquote here. Oliver claiming strat stinks.

I think the medic should claim.

I’m the medic.

[Guillo]

Voss trying to pocket Oliverz with an echo of their own read “i agree” is cute.

Voss, what do you like about Oliverz read onnLag?

[Lumi]

I'm inclined to agree with oliver on the power roles claiming - but it just comes down to people's opinions on mafia philosophy, and ultimately probably doesn't matter that much whether mass claiming is done now or later. Later is probably just better though.

The reason I agree with oliver in that mass claiming should be done at some point is that none of the power roles other than medic actually have inherently pro-town abilities.

Pardon someone from the chop? How is that pro-town? If pardoning someone is in town's interest, then town can just... not vote them? The pardon can only be used to go against the majority's wishes.

Making someone's vote count for 0? How is that pro-town? Even if there's a player that is an outed wolf, you can just ignore their vote. The fringe scenarios where a hidden judge can clutch and stop wolves from having
as many votes as town in like a 2v2 setting is offset by a wolf judge (or even a town judge) torpedoing town in a 3v2 scenario to make it 2v2 instead.

States Attorney + Mayor are effectively the same when it comes down to it - double vote power isn't pro-town, it's just better for the slot that has the double vote power, and we just hope those slots are town.



But I already know that there are players that will hard disagree with this, and unlike the Bisected Souls game - the benefit of an early mass claim is dubious, speculative, and not worth derailing the thread

[Lumi]

Oliver claiming strat stinks.

Hey, exactly the player I was expecting to say the claiming strat stinks.

How do i multiquote here.

Next to the "Reply with Quote" button there's a little Quote with a + next to it button. Click that button for all the posts you want to multiquote, and then click "Reply with Quote" on a post after you've selected all posts you want to include as well, and all the quotes will be included

[Marshmallow Marshall]

"It's RVS"

-vote lag

I meta know lag as well as my pocket
This 3 posts completely contradict the usual neutral-smart town game play
This is not rvs
Town lag would already come up with a plan
Now i need to jump in, gimme some time.
We have 2-3 scum
1 of them is lag.

No, we just kinda skipped RVS thanks to Oliver :P. It's a D1 read, but it is based on something reasonable. So stating how I position myself towards Oliver's read is perfectly legitimate.

Hi guillo. That's a nice statement you have here. Why is Lag scum in your opinion?

[Guillo]

I forgot everything about the set up of this game but it looks like politicians here suck as much as their real life counterparts for what i just read from Lag, so what if we just play it old school and stop worrying about mechanics and just catch scum on behavior? Yah?

Cool

[Guillo]

I didnt say Lag was scum, i said Voss is

[Lumi]

"It's RVS"



No, we just kinda skipped RVS thanks to Oliver :P. It's a D1 read, but it is based on something reasonable. So stating how I position myself towards Oliver's read is perfectly legitimate.

Hi guillo. That's a nice statement you have here. Why is Lag scum in your opinion?

Just because someone says we're not in RVS, doesn't mean we're not in RVS.

And like, no offense to oliver, but that is especially true when it's a new player making a read that's just totally wrong, pairing that with a statement of "we're not in RVS" doesn't mean anything, you of all people should know that. Also why did you just ignore all of my other points?

And are you claiming that you actually agree with oliver's read for the reasons he stated?

[PQRnHack]

I didnt say Lag was scum, i said Voss is

Hmm.. MM mixing up whom Guillo was replying to. Mixing up the TvT's that aren't on your team @Marshmallow Marshall ?

[Lumi]

meta tell: Guillo is >rand town

Guillo probably knows why

No, I won't reveal the tell.

[PQRnHack]

meta tell: Guillo is >rand town

Guillo probably knows why

No, I won't reveal the tell.

Not the first time someone faked a PR claim

[Frinckles]

Hi Frinckles

Hay Lag. I see you're already dealing with a bunch of analysis so I'll just sit back on this one.

I made a pizza. But I put some diced green onions on it. It was pretty good. I'm surprised more people haven't done that, like yeah white onion is a thing, NEVER red onion. Even chives, which I think is related to green onion and the leek family? But nobody ever says GREEN onion.

[Frinckles]

SHARK KING IS SHARK

[Voss]

Voss trying to pocket Oliverz with an echo of their own read “i agree” is cute.

Voss, what do you like about Oliverz read onnLag?

You don't know me, but that's okay. I like you because of it.

I liked Oliverz jumping straight into a meta read on Lag. I've talked with lag a bunch, but never played with him, so he's a scary "pro player" in my book. Oliverz seems to have some experience, and I'm glad they shared it, and would agree. Slightly trolling Lag is not my expectation here.

Also, it doesn't look like it, but my 1/3 congressperson idea came up independently. I missed critical things on the first read of the day and blame sleep deprivation. I townread oliverz though for the read on Lag, and not for saying 1/3 congresspeople are evil.

I also read more of your posts past this quote, and I think I will enjoy playing with you

Refusing to use the tool to put pressure on people and generate information that way is a little dumb, tbh. I will go with the option "biting you", since this is not AI, it's just sad and suboptimal.

Also, WHERE IS EVERYONE?!! : ]

I mean, if someone is at L-1 and I'm sure they're scum, I'll vote them. But I don't want scum to be able to do this.

This is actually kind of interesting.

I would assume always that the host would put one scum congressman in the chat. I think that any host would do that. So if you approach the chat as though it's like a final 3 scenario, ie, there is one imposter among us, I don't see why it would be a bad thing. Creating further information disadvantage for town is never something that benefits the town.

Let me expand on this a little bit.

Assuming an evil congressperson can figure out who the other congresspeople are through diction, post timing, etc, the scum team knowing who the other congresspeople are benefits scum. Scum would then just not kill or pressure these people, and up their chances of winning by killing non CCable PRs.

I'm not sure how this is information disadvantage, and i'd never advocate for something that I believe is anti-town.

Like, my other assumption here is that it's not advantageous for town to do a D1 mass role claim. This is because we don't want scum killing the better TPRs, and would rather wait a few days for TPRs to out and justify their night actions. Right?

[Voss]

I forgot everything about the set up of this game but it looks like politicians here suck as much as their real life counterparts for what i just read from Lag, so what if we just play it old school and stop worrying about mechanics and just catch scum on behavior? Yah?

Cool

I'd really like to make sure the other congresspeople don't use their chat as it only helps scum, so mechanics are important to me here. And I don't want to type this into the congressperson chat because then the other congresspeople will know I'm a congressperson.

[Gikkle]

I somehow forgot this started today, and now I've missed RVS...

Well whatever I'm still gonna random vote

-vote Frinckles

clearly scum