S-FM 334 (Ladder): Once Upon a Town in the West (Small-Town Mafia) (13P)

[Marshmallow Marshall]

No, I need your shot to be Frinckles. I reconsidered.

I'm not sure why scum!PQ cares about this, though; makes no sense from a scum point of view. Am I tunnelling here or something?

[jmw]

So you won't explain why you scumread Gikkle?

Assuming PQ flips scum, jmw is probably next here.

Sorry, I don't feel like pushing him because I know I'm gonna get a wall of China of a post in response and I'll have to back and forth with that. Not fun.
You can read my previous posts to get a sense of why I think he's scum or do whatever you feel like doing, and lynch me after I take my shot tonight if PQ flips scum.
If someone blocks or interrupts it, oh well, that's on them for blocking town vig's shot

[PQRnHack]

In whatever world you're trying to illustrate, JMW wastes his shot and becomes a citizen. If he wants a green check on me that badly, feel free but I assume Mike wanted to check me anyway.

You pushed me very firmly when I know you to be wrong. You are the mafia mastermind and skipped n1. jmw is okay to shoot you when i flip town, as you are mafia. Not sure why you are defending. My flip will reveal the reality here.

[jmw]

No, I need your shot to be Frinckles. I reconsidered.

So you're suggesting a framing from Frinckles/Loldebite team then?

[Marshmallow Marshall]

You pushed me very firmly when I know you to be wrong. You are the mafia mastermind and skipped n1. jmw is okay to shoot you when i flip town, as you are mafia. Not sure why you are defending. My flip will reveal the reality here.

you mean Mafia no-killed knowing that Loldebite would block you, either because he's scum or because it made sense? That... is actually possible. I'm not sure how it incriminates Frinckles, though?

[Light_Yagami]

Heres A Concept That Works...What If Jailor And Vigi Are Both Scum? And Mafia Held All Their Kills For Tonight...

To Take Out Three Town In One Night.. Granted They Could Have Done That Last Night.. But This Hold Action/No Kill Thing Is Making Everyone Second Guess Everything..

[Light_Yagami]

Just Throwing Out Ideas..

[Frinckles]

You pushed me very firmly when I know you to be wrong. You are the mafia mastermind and skipped n1. jmw is okay to shoot you when i flip town, as you are mafia. Not sure why you are defending. My flip will reveal the reality here.

Jmw would shoot me, I would be healed by MM and he would become citizen.

[PQRnHack]

So you're suggesting a framing from Frinckles/Loldebite team then?

Frinckles = absolutely. Loledebite = not necessarily and probably less likely. USE YOUR HEAD! If Mafia were to skip, what was the strategy? They dont need Escort on their team. They just go after whoever town~Escort RBed, which seems to be me. It is the only thing that makes sense in the world where mafia chose not to kill, and I KNOW Frinckles is the person capable of this deep play. The alternative is my former high% assumption that doc haled BG, but I have moved on since then based on Frinckles' push. When he makes this play, he pushes it.

[jmw]

Heres A Concept That Works...What If Jailor And Vigi Are Both Scum? And Mafia Held All Their Kills For Tonight...

To Take Out Three Town In One Night.. Granted They Could Have Done That Last Night.. But This Hold Action/No Kill Thing Is Making Everyone Second Guess Everything..

Bad idea and simply a waste of KP for scum.
They would be banking on not being found out or lynched for the next cycle... in hopes that there's some confusion. Instead of immediately taking advantage of 3 KP they have.

[PQRnHack]

you mean Mafia no-killed knowing that Loldebite would block you, either because he's scum or because it made sense? That... is actually possible. I'm not sure how it incriminates Frinckles, though?

Use your HEAD. It doesnt matter whom he blocked. The RB target becomes a suspect. Fact that Frinckles avoided other possibilities tells me that this is the scenario we are in!

[jmw]

Jmw would shoot me, I would be healed by MM and he would become citizen.

That's not how vig works. If a townie doesn't die, I keep my role.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Frinckles = absolutely. Loledebite = not necessarily and probably less likely. USE YOUR HEAD! If Mafia were to skip, what was the strategy? They dont need Escort on their team. They just go after whoever town~Escort RBed, which seems to be me. It is the only thing that makes sense in the world where mafia chose not to kill, and I KNOW Frinckles is the person capable of this deep play. The alternative is my former high% assumption that doc haled BG, but I have moved on since then based on Frinckles' push. When he makes this play, he pushes it.

Frinckles is indeed very capable of this kind of play (mrrrrpht....), but that doesn't automatically make him guilty. If that's your only "proof", you're stretching it quite a lot here.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Use your HEAD. It doesnt matter whom he blocked. The RB target becomes a suspect. Fact that Frinckles avoided other possibilities tells me that this is the scenario we are in!

Avoided what possibilities?

[PQRnHack]

Jmw would shoot me, I would be healed by MM and he would become citizen.

Not if MM has a brain

[Frinckles]

That's not how vig works. If a townie doesn't die, I keep my role.

Oh. Well, I like my version of vigilante better.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Oh. Well, I like my version of vigilante better.

That would be a nerfed vigilante lol.

[jmw]

Use your HEAD. It doesnt matter whom he blocked. The RB target becomes a suspect. Fact that Frinckles avoided other possibilities tells me that this is the scenario we are in!

In a town!Loldebite scenario where Frinckles is scum, it doesn't make much sense to no kill with the intent to frame, as Loldebite made it look like he was blocking me to everyone else (and by extension, a world where scum have me choose the factional there makes zero sense so they can't push that), and they have to hope Loldebite doesn't decide he wants to block one of their members or they shoot themselves in the foot. I can maybe see it if Frinckles and Loldebite are both scum, but at that point just killing seems like the better option...

[PQRnHack]

Avoided what possibilities?

You should know, you are the Doc. Figure it out.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

In a town!Loldebite scenario where Frinckles is scum, it doesn't make much sense to no kill with the intent to frame, as Loldebite made it look like he was blocking me to everyone else (and by extension, a world where scum have me choose the factional there makes zero sense so they can't push that), and they have to hope Loldebite doesn't decide he wants to block one of their members or they shoot themselves in the foot. I can maybe see it if Frinckles and Loldebite are both scum, but at that point just killing seems like the better option...

Not really: mafia would make an entire day completely wasted on false information, throw town into confusion and cause a mislynch, which absolutely is a good idea for scum, actually. The issue is, I don't see how all of this makes Frinckles scum instead of just making someone who isn't PQ scum.

[luona]

yall make this so complicated im so confused-

[Marshmallow Marshall]

You should know, you are the Doc. Figure it out.

.................................................. .....................................

-unvote

As annoying as this behavior is, it's not coming from scum. He's literally suiciding instead of defending himself and trying to live here. If he were scum trying to come up with a far-fetched defense, he wouldn't be this careless, he'd be tryharding his way out of lynch. I think we need to reevaluate here.

Answer my question, though. It is NECESSARY if we want to understand what happened last night.

[PQRnHack]

In a town!Loldebite scenario where Frinckles is scum, it doesn't make much sense to no kill with the intent to frame, as Loldebite made it look like he was blocking me to everyone else (and by extension, a world where scum have me choose the factional there makes zero sense so they can't push that), and they have to hope Loldebite doesn't decide he wants to block one of their members or they shoot themselves in the foot. I can maybe see it if Frinckles and Loldebite are both scum, but at that point just killing seems like the better option...

I know that one of my scenarios is happening here RIGHT NOW. It does not matter what Loldebite "made it look like". What matters is what he claimed, which is RBing me, and im useless. WIFOM. I really doubt a scum Escort would pick CS as their prime pick to frame. What I think happened is Loldebite is a Town Escort and mafia intentionally skipped to fuck me over.

[jmw]

Not really: mafia would make an entire day completely wasted on false information, throw town into confusion and cause a mislynch, which absolutely is a good idea for scum, actually. The issue is, I don't see how all of this makes Frinckles scum instead of just making someone who isn't PQ scum.

The way I see it is if mafia no killed to frame Loldebite's block target, Loldebite is scum.
Because Loldebite made it clear they were blocking me in thread ( ), and its clear from my posts I thought I was getting blocked, so I'm unpushable there as it is obvious I wouldn't give myself the factional kill thinking I get blocked. Unless scum somehow guess Loldebite didn't target me (which I would see no way of really guessing unless they knew what Loldebite was doing because he's scum)

I think the part that they think makes it more likely to be Frinckles is how they narrowed down immediately to "it has to be the block because mafia would *never* attack me!!" and I guess ignoring Oliver possibility?

[PQRnHack]

Not really: mafia would make an entire day completely wasted on false information, throw town into confusion and cause a mislynch, which absolutely is a good idea for scum, actually. The issue is, I don't see how all of this makes Frinckles scum instead of just making someone who isn't PQ scum.

Who can make this brilliant play? answer this

[Marshmallow Marshall]

- What in the PQ got framed theory incriminates Frinckles or Loldebite? As far as I can tell, the answer is "absolutely nothing serious".

- What is the Gikkle train about? The nonexistence of the case against him gives him a free defense and allows him to basically coast on the baseless scumread, which is bad. He could be scum coasting on the fact people scumread him for trash reasons here.

- Why is Paopan still alive??

[jmw]

I know that one of my scenarios is happening here RIGHT NOW. It does not matter what Loldebite "made it look like". What matters is what he claimed, which is RBing me, and im useless. WIFOM. I really doubt a scum Escort would pick CS as their prime pick to frame. What I think happened is Loldebite is a Town Escort and mafia intentionally skipped to fuck me over.

Actually no it's incredibly important.
Loldebite made it look like he was blocking me. Unless you can come up for a reasonable explanation for how mafia would doubt Loldebite is blocking me, it doesn't make sense for mafia to skip with town Loldebite and just push whoever they block, since he made it obvious the whole day phase and I have a very easy defense of "why would scum let me nightkill if Loldebite said he was blocking me"

Scum Loldebite makes your theory possible though.

[Frinckles]

What kind of Mafia team of 4 power roles decides that they are going to no-kill against 9 Town power roles?

This setup is not easy for scum. Let's just get that out there.

[jmw]

Bye for now.

- What in the PQ got framed theory incriminates Frinckles or Loldebite? As far as I can tell, the answer is "absolutely nothing serious".

- What is the Gikkle train about? The nonexistence of the case against him gives him a free defense and allows him to basically coast on the baseless scumread, which is bad. He could be scum coasting on the fact people scumread him for trash reasons here.

- Why is Paopan still alive??

- Explained below. Maf never skip specifically to frame escort block unless Loldebite is scum. And I think PQ reads Frinckles as part of it based on the part of PQ's post where they said they ignore all other possibilities.

- I think he's clearly scum but scum Gikkle is always a pain to push, last time I did it was basically over 24 hours of wallposting back and forth arguing and I'm not feeling like doing all that again when I can just shoot at him.

- Your guess is as good as mine

[PQRnHack]

- What in the PQ got framed theory incriminates Frinckles or Loldebite? As far as I can tell, the answer is "absolutely nothing serious".

- What is the Gikkle train about? The nonexistence of the case against him gives him a free defense and allows him to basically coast on the baseless scumread, which is bad. He could be scum coasting on the fact people scumread him for trash reasons here.

- Why is Paopan still alive??

Who is pushing me? Frinckles. Who can make this brilliant play? Frinckles, you should know from prior games. I have little more to add, i get it that I got allegedly RBed. But I know I am town, so do I just cave in and give us reads? Not really, I wanna have my N2 chat. Maybe im GF/Mafioso/KPI who got RBed - i know that i am NOT!

[Marshmallow Marshall]

The way I see it is if mafia no killed to frame Loldebite's block target, Loldebite is scum.
Because Loldebite made it clear they were blocking me in thread ( ), and its clear from my posts I thought I was getting blocked, so I'm unpushable there as it is obvious I wouldn't give myself the factional kill thinking I get blocked. Unless scum somehow guess Loldebite didn't target me (which I would see no way of really guessing unless they knew what Loldebite was doing because he's scum)

I think the part that they think makes it more likely to be Frinckles is how they narrowed down immediately to "it has to be the block because mafia would *never* attack me!!" and I guess ignoring Oliver possibility?

I missed the part about Loldebite announcing they would be blocking you. Gonna check his ISO to see for myself.

Also, if it's true, then Loldebite is scummy, but Frinckles is not scummy or towny based on this, except for the very thin argument "only him could think of such a strategy", which isn't true (he certainly could think of such a strategy, but so could other people, it's just a clever move).

[PQRnHack]

Actually no it's incredibly important.
Loldebite made it look like he was blocking me. Unless you can come up for a reasonable explanation for how mafia would doubt Loldebite is blocking me, it doesn't make sense for mafia to skip with town Loldebite and just push whoever they block, since he made it obvious the whole day phase and I have a very easy defense of "why would scum let me nightkill if Loldebite said he was blocking me"

Scum Loldebite makes your theory possible though.

Are you for real? How about town~loldebite. Re evaluate this. I know it looks like im pocketing but im not. I am pissed off that im getting voted up here. Not nice, these pros are trying to sack me. But I am here to win this for us.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Who can make this brilliant play? answer this

Many people. Including yourself if you hadn't been the target lol, since you thought about it yourself. Jmw too. Many others. I guess even I could have thought about it if I had been scum lol. This isn't ground to lynch Frinckles on at all.

[PQRnHack]

We must be .. vigilant (pardon the pun). We have pro scum here doing something extremely fishy. I am going to defendig it BECAUSE I KNOW IM TOWN so i know that Frinckles is doing this. It is very simple: he never considered my primary possibility of doc healing him. And he wont accept that mafia may have skipped. Why? Because he skipped!

[PQRnHack]

@Frinckles why are you silent all of a sudden. Talking shit to me (WHEN I HAD WORK TO DO) but when you get called out you bounce out eh.

[PQRnHack]

Many people. Including yourself if you hadn't been the target lol, since you thought about it yourself. Jmw too. Many others. I guess even I could have thought about it if I had been scum lol. This isn't ground to lynch Frinckles on at all.

True, I would like to think I would make that play cuz im so smart But Do you think I did it?

[Frinckles]

Honestly, Gikkle and PQR can both be scum and I have no issues with them dying. I say this from a place where I'm beginning to get a decent townread on JMW.

The only concern I'd have would be Luona/Oliver/Loldebite/Oberon taking the game for a ride but that roster would never no-kill N1.

[PQRnHack]

Honestly, Gikkle and PQR can both be scum and I have no issues with them dying. I say this from a place where I'm beginning to get a decent townread on JMW.

The only concern I'd have would be Luona/Oliver/Loldebite/Oberon taking the game for a ride but that roster would never no-kill N1.

Words coming from scum have little merit. Sadly, im the only one to read your play here. How does it feel to be a mastermind?

[Frinckles]

@Frinckles why are you silent all of a sudden. Talking shit to me (WHEN I HAD WORK TO DO) but when you get called out you bounce out eh.

I'm thinking and trying to figure out the bad guys going into N2. What did you want?

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Bye for now.


- Explained below. Maf never skip specifically to frame escort block unless Loldebite is scum. And I think PQ reads Frinckles as part of it based on the part of PQ's post where they said they ignore all other possibilities.

- I think he's clearly scum but scum Gikkle is always a pain to push, last time I did it was basically over 24 hours of wallposting back and forth arguing and I'm not feeling like doing all that again when I can just shoot at him.

- Your guess is as good as mine

Actually, if Mafia skips to frame Loldebite's target, it can work even if he's town, as long as they wait until Loldebite says who he targeted. Then whoever got targeted can be framed. That being said, it makes more sense if Loldebite is scum, because they can control it from the start of the day, knowing who he's gonna announce to have blocked.

Gikkle's ISO just reads fully null to me, though. His posts exist. That's about it. They don't bring any dramatic change in the game, but they also generally are logical, without being revolutionary. He's there, he exists. And while I think it's beginning to look quite bad on D2, the lack of any arguments against him from before D2, back when it was acceptable for him to have only "existed", is unsettling. Thus, it's important you and other Gikkle voters actually explain their thought process here. @jmw (when you'll be back, please; you don't have to reply to him endlessly if he contests, but you at least have to give a reasoning) @PQRnHack if you're town, which I think may actually be the case here, you NEED to explain yourself @ others explain please.

Also, where is @NotPaopan ?

[Marshmallow Marshall]

True, I would like to think I would make that play cuz im so smart But Do you think I did it?

Well obviously no since assuming it happened, you're the target XD, so it makes no sense to suicide like that. But you get my point: Frinckles isn't the only one able to think about that.

[PQRnHack]

I'm thinking and trying to figure out the bad guys going into N2. What did you want?

You already know the bad guys on your team. I only wish I had more townies on my side to actually vote you. Hence: D2 no lynch expectation. Town is too indecisive. You gonna skip another kill?

[Frinckles]

Well obviously no since assuming it happened, you're the target XD, so it makes no sense to suicide like that. But you get my point: Frinckles isn't the only one able to think about that.

I'm ready to just hammer and start D3 24 hours from now tbh. We can hammer gikkle or pqr. idc

[Frinckles]

You already know the bad guys on your team. I only wish I had more townies on my side to actually vote you. Hence: D2 no lynch expectation. Town is too indecisive. You gonna skip another kill?

nah we're gonna end the day here.

[PQRnHack]

I'm ready to just hammer and start D3 24 hours from now tbh. We can hammer gikkle or pqr. idc

Would you hammer me?

[Marshmallow Marshall]

I'm ready to just hammer and start D3 24 hours from now tbh. We can hammer gikkle or pqr. idc

Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

You don't care about lynching the right people???
...

[Frinckles]

Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

You don't care about lynching the right people???
...

of course i do, but i trust jmw to make a good shot here. if you TR pqr now because he's appealing to your emotion that's fine. jmw sees a world more likely where pqr is town.

So, if two of my top townreads disagree with me, what choice do I have except to sit in this gridlock? We will get a flip, and a shot in the night and we see what happens next.

[Light_Yagami]

Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

You don't care about lynching the right people???
...

Redacted Joke Ask After Game.. But Im Laughing My Ass Off Right Now..

[Frinckles]

you can pick the hammer, or ask luona / Light to pick one. your call. Town is winning this game already.

[PQRnHack]

you can pick the hammer, or ask luona / Light to pick one. your call. Town is winning this game already.

Okay then humor me this: if you view me as mafia RBed by Lol. Who are partners? Please commit to naming 3 suspects or more.