So uh, why is Frinckles being the kill target so unlikely that we're ruling out all worlds where PQR and Loldebite are both town?
Auwt is visible to a Lookout
Any role (including PQR's one) is visible to Lookout
Auwt cannot be roleblocked.
Any other role (including PQR's one) can be roleblocked.
I talk you as a town here, yes PQR's role might be the best choice they could've used as a KP.
Be sure that if I were scum, this would have definitely not been the case.
If I were teamed with PQR I would have gone for the kill by the explanation stated above, it's mechanically a better option and there is like no pros to give PQR the KP if I were sharing the same bandit alignment.
This is why I am almost mechanically confirmed, the only reason I shouldn't be is
1) MM healed someone (which I dont believe it to be the case)
2) Bandit did not move last night (in which case it's quite weird, but uh?)
The likelihood PQR and I are sharing opposite alignment is quite consequent, and I am aware of that.
If we don't come to a consensus by the end of D2, I might turn to the PQR train.
On the other hand, I am expecting PQR to quickly vote Gikkle or he is going to catch my vote in his face.
A vote by me at this point would be premature. I need time to figure this out, and it's difficult to do so because I cannot assume that people voting me are necessarily scum, since it is decent odds from their PoV that Escort's RB'ed target was the GF/Mafioso/KPI whatever you call it. I can see a world in which you chose not to attack N1 via big brain play (you are one of few capable of something like that). Why did you guard Paopan (who is "not that scummy") instead of chain protection that you mentioned earlier?
In my opinion this situation is similar to the one from the previous game.
Where D2 there was that wagoon on Wrath and the opposing one on Paopan (I believe).
The blocks were strongly opposed and the opposing train (to my pov) was full of persons that looks way scummier than Wrath himself.
So I don't necessarly believe Gikkle to be directly scummy, but Paopan is townier than all the others voting him.
And as some have already been stating, due to VCA, its highly unlikely Paopan and Gikkle are sharing the same alignment.
Also now that PQR is a suspect and not voting Gikkle anymore it feels a bit odd to me.
Drunk playing vs sober playing, but you can formulate your own opinion. If you think PQR is GF/Mafioso/KPI and got butthurt by roleblock, then I dont blame you, but that ain't the case. I have also reconsidered my D1 reads based on night chat I had with who i thought was a scum teammate. If I was scum here, I would probably just be like paopan scum and go "ITS GIKKLE" non-stop.
What if the scum composed of Frinckles Oberon Oliver Mike
Full mind-blown. Pewwww.
The same reason I'm confident that I was not attacked.
MM healing me was the obvious thing he'd do. He did.
Luona swapping MM+Oliver was the obvious thing to do. We can assume she did.
Me bodyguarding Luona was the obvious thing to do. I did not, yet we know she wasn't attacked because Mafia wouldn't risk me killing them.
Why would Mafia attack the person most obviously about to be healed?
Funny enough, it's plausible Oliver was the Mafia kill in an attempt to snipe MM. I'm not saying Paopan was the best person for me to guard there. Light or Mike or even Oliver probably would have been better guesses, but here we are.
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I don't think scum ever holster here but I also think drunk PQR sussing us in saloon chat like we were playing among us for the whole night isn't fakable, so I'm conflicted. But I guess I'll see at EoD, got some things to do for a bit.
If that's your logic, how could scum have a guarantee of Luona to bus MM+whoever reliably? They could have taken out the MM portion of the chain right there or at the very least, hit Oliver's vest.
From what I can tell, the biggest risk taken there was me not protecting Luona. If I died, MM is scum. If MM dies, Luona is scum. If Luona dies, I'm scum. Thankfully the latter didn't happen.
So why would scum interfere with that chain unless they were directly a part of it or had a way of manipulating it, for example a mafia roleblocker?
But if Loldebite is a Mafia roleblocker, why didn't the kill occur at the point of the chain they wanted to kill? Roleblocking goes before bussing, they had every opportunity.
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Fair.
And honestly it makes sense to me.
Compared to all the other options we have (bandit did not kill, doc got a save, escort rb KP)
I'm going to sort those out :
Likely :
Someone attacked MM, turns out he was switched with oliver who vested. No kill.
Less likely :
Loldebite roleblocked PQR who was the KP for the bandit team.
Unlikely :
MM saved Frinckles.
Very unlikely :
Bandits did not use their KP.
Sure. But that also implies that:
1. Loldebite is town.
2. Luona is town.
3. MM is town.
4. There would be 8 (I think) viable switch targets, 4 of those would include mafia members.
I don't object to the first 3.
So would 4 mafia members really take the risk of either getting themselves hit and or wasting their kill in the scenario that oliver is chosen? Sorry, kind of confusing.
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Do Not open this spoiler under any condition!!!!!!!
Spoiler : :
Yeah, I'm not gonna lie, it's a bit of a yolo roleblock. But it's equally a good pick for who Mafia would have do the night kill.
But I honestly think you & JMW have Stockholm Syndrome. PQR has never been overtly towny this game.
If they had a roleblocker, they could just RB Luona + Kill MM. There would never have been a hit on Oliver. (this is getting confusing)
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canadian thanksgivings this weekend bbys xx
ty for saying this, i didnt notice originally :o
jmw and gikkles back & forth seems a bit weird to me, one of them might be scum but i cant tell which..
jmw seems bad for what i think looks like omgus and a bit over reactionary coming from him, but there was a post from him
this post, which i liked.
like this
i also like this, the reasonings seem good imo.
i uhh, dont wanna quote the whole thing since its long, but idk how to link to the post specifically so im just gonna quote the start only and assume yall know the post im talking about (-:
i don't like how in the readslist in this post, theres so little green, yet his actions dont line up with how somebody with a "so little greenslist" would be acting imo
because of the so many null/unsure reads, i feel like he should be trying to interact with people more, so i feel as if hes not making an attempt to solve.
i think this is the best move for today
-vote pqrnhack
i think if he flips scum, ill be looking at paopan next because his defense of pqrnhack
So, do you guys not voting for PQR think that currently scum are on this wagon? That both manipulation roles couldn't pull off a kill last night and let Mike+Light get their checks off etc?
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-vote PQRNhack
PQRnHack (4 [L-4]):
Loldebite, Oberon, Frinckles, luona
2 roleblockers, and a manipulator, didn't make a kill but decided to target roles normally not affected by roleblocks at night? I'm just wondering when someone is going to call this a scum-led wagon.
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@jmw once you see I am town, please use your shot. Frinckles is a veteran over here on SC2 and he is the big mastermind with big brain plays.
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