Claiming a role on the stand
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  1. #1

    Claiming a role on the stand

    I've been playing this for a few years now, and I have come to learn that if a town is hell bent on lynching someone, no amount of pleading on the stand will save them. Recently, I came across a thread where a player was banned for 'gamethrowing' because he did not claim a role to a mayor. Is that really a bannable offense? I've done it too sometimes. Not given my role to a bloodthirsty town who will just lynch me anyway. Why jump through hoops?

    Thoughts?

  2. #2

    Re: Claiming a role on the stand

    Quote Originally Posted by Veliaire View Post
    I've been playing this for a few years now, and I have come to learn that if a town is hell bent on lynching someone, no amount of pleading on the stand will save them. Recently, I came across a thread where a player was banned for 'gamethrowing' because he did not claim a role to a mayor. Is that really a bannable offense? I've done it too sometimes. Not given my role to a bloodthirsty town who will just lynch me anyway. Why jump through hoops?

    Thoughts?
    I guess in the strictest sense, playing sub optimally is gamethrowing but the admins here don't rule like that. You pretty much have to be mafia and out the other mafia in day chat to get banned for throwing.

    If town pisses you off and you play sub optimally to piss them off I guess it's technically throwing but town deserves it lmao

    I'm not an admin though. I'm just a random asshole.
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  3. #3

  4. #4

    Re: Claiming a role on the stand

    Quote Originally Posted by Veliaire View Post
    I've been playing this for a few years now, and I have come to learn that if a town is hell bent on lynching someone, no amount of pleading on the stand will save them. Recently, I came across a thread where a player was banned for 'gamethrowing' because he did not claim a role to a mayor. Is that really a bannable offense? I've done it too sometimes. Not given my role to a bloodthirsty town who will just lynch me anyway. Why jump through hoops?

    Thoughts?
    The truth is, when you are playing this game, only one player shall know your role and how sincere you are.
    And that player is yourself.
    This is a game made to face players and try to convince them, also known as a game of truth and lies.
    Now if others are really willing to put you up, and nobody is pleading with you, it has to be your job to prove them they are wrong.
    It would cost absolutely nothing, could save time and would overall increase the game's quality.

    In contrast to some recent event where a player decided to waste time as he himself admitted, and reactionary decreased the quality of the game,
    The punishment given to this guy has several basis.
    First, he has been under a Watch-List at the time this "offense" has been reported, which would obviously lead to a severer reaction.
    And secondly, he has been replicating this playstyle (not claiming, not being cooperative and whatsoever) over several games.
    Not mentioning the fact he previously appealed successfully, and then went down that way (of being reported) again.

    Now, this is totally just my opinion and as nothing to do with this specific report,
    But if people don't want to defend themselves on the stand anymore, let's just remove the "Innocent" button, leaving "Guilty" as the only option left.
    Obviously you see where this is going.

    And it is even stupider if you are not claiming your role as a Town to a confirmed Mayor.
    Notice that I'm using "stupider" and not "gamethrowing" right there.
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    MM Magoroth and Distorted are the 3 baddies
    just like Agrael Acriel and Auwt being the original 3 baddies
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    MafiaZ and Skwirl its all a repeat of history
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  5. #5

    Re: Claiming a role on the stand

    Quote Originally Posted by Veliaire View Post
    What is 'sub optimal' is subjective, no? If I am a Jailor or a Vig or something like that.. and town randomly puts me up with no evidence. I will not claim a role because why reward retarded people by putting a target on my back for SKs or GFs to kill me? There is value in not claiming a role.
    Instead of bashing other players, such as the voters in that case (as some would do...),
    Maybe showing them some proof you are Town could eventually be a good idea, and could maybe even lure a prot on you in that case.
    Now it's player-dependant but as a Vigi or a Jailor, if I'm being randomly accused, I would open claim it and say "To prove you I'm (what I am), I will shoot *insert the number of the guy I find the more evil*".

    Such sentences, or even a simplier defense work really well and at least you can survive longer compared to some typical shouting like "ya stupid town putting me up" "im not claiming to such a random *insert whichever insult you want here* town".

    Good willingness, willing to win, willing to stay alive (unless you are Jester), is all the states of mind a player would need when being on the stand.
    Quote Originally Posted by Efekannn02 View Post
    MM Magoroth and Distorted are the 3 baddies
    just like Agrael Acriel and Auwt being the original 3 baddies
    Quote Originally Posted by Efekannn02 View Post
    MafiaZ and Skwirl its all a repeat of history
    Quote Originally Posted by Scvmurderer View Post
    I havnt seen a mafiaz member in a long time. I think they're dead.
    Quote Originally Posted by Efekannn02 View Post
    Screw you I actually have more grudges towards the people who have their names start with A

  6. #6

    Re: Claiming a role on the stand

    Quote Originally Posted by Auwt View Post
    The truth is, when you are playing this game, only one player shall know your role and how sincere you are.
    And that player is yourself.
    This is a game made to face players and try to convince them, also known as a game of truth and lies.
    Now if others are really willing to put you up, and nobody is pleading with you, it has to be your job to prove them they are wrong.
    It would cost absolutely nothing, could save time and would overall increase the game's quality.

    In contrast to some recent event where a player decided to waste time as he himself admitted, and reactionary decreased the quality of the game,
    The punishment given to this guy has several basis.
    So you're saying that the banning only occurred because of that person's history, and not everyone who refuses to claim a role is subject to banning?

    Also, I see where you're coming from with why people should claim, but I still disagree. If there is legitimate evidence against you, or if there is no inves roles available and people are being put up for a role on the record, then yeah.. if I'm town then I will claim.. but if it's day 2 and I am being put up because some executioner is spamming that I am an arsonist... but I am really a Vigilante or a Bodyguard.. why would I claim so that I will have a target on my back? Shouldn't more of an effort be made to make people actually play their roles correctly and do some actual investigation and thinking, rather than to force a randomly accused person to convince them that they are not guilty?

  7. #7

    Re: Claiming a role on the stand

    Quote Originally Posted by Veliaire View Post
    So you're saying that the banning only occurred because of that person's history, and not everyone who refuses to claim a role is subject to banning?
    Not claiming a role can happen.
    The feeling of being confirmed and therefore not claiming can happen.
    As long as it stays a "can happen" however.

    That person's history played a role in his ban.
    Like it should, I guess.

    Quote Originally Posted by Veliaire View Post
    Also, I see where you're coming from with why people should claim, but I still disagree. If there is legitimate evidence against you, or if there is no inves roles available and people are being put up for a role on the record, then yeah.. if I'm town then I will claim.. but if it's day 2 and I am being put up because some executioner is spamming that I am an arsonist... but I am really a Vigilante or a Bodyguard.. why would I claim so that I will have a target on my back? Shouldn't more of an effort be made to make people actually play their roles correctly and do some actual investigation and thinking, rather than to force a randomly accused person to convince them that they are not guilty?
    Well, random accusations will always be a thing.
    I guess we have to live with it.
    The main issue of not claiming still remains,
    And moreover if you do not claim at all, you will bite the bait "no role no lw", that has been a gimmick for long now.
    Obviously, claiming can backfire, but when you have confirmable role you can still ask for a bit of time.
    And if your role is unconfirmable, and people are randoming you, it could always be better to try and claim than do nothing and wait for your own fate.

    Of course I understand your point that it might be frustrating to claim a role based on a random vote, but yeah...
    Quote Originally Posted by Efekannn02 View Post
    MM Magoroth and Distorted are the 3 baddies
    just like Agrael Acriel and Auwt being the original 3 baddies
    Quote Originally Posted by Efekannn02 View Post
    MafiaZ and Skwirl its all a repeat of history
    Quote Originally Posted by Scvmurderer View Post
    I havnt seen a mafiaz member in a long time. I think they're dead.
    Quote Originally Posted by Efekannn02 View Post
    Screw you I actually have more grudges towards the people who have their names start with A

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  10. #10

    Re: Claiming a role on the stand

    For Mafia to be played optimally, even in the fringe cases where risky gambits are made, people need to have humility to realize they have exhausted their method of approach and try to rectify their position before they ruin/hamper their chance or their teams chance at winning by continuing it further. It's just easier to just throw your hands up and say "fuck it, this is on you not me" rather than taking the initiative and push for a better outcome. Even if it doesn't work, at least you tried. This attitude transcends Mafia into every day life for probably everyone at some point so it makes sense it appears in Mafia. In a game where the method of winning is to lynch people, giving people a reason to lynch you and not fighting against it is very much a game-throw/griefing situation that people are pretty lucky is loosely enforced.

    Using your example Veliaire of being Vigilante and being called out by an Executioner, if you were to be like "I'm not giving you my role, but I can prove myself if you let me live at least until tomorrow" I would personally consider that fine because you are protecting your role (a fair position to take) but also offering players a compromise for not revealing your role right there and then. At least you are doing something, rather than just rolling over and taking the lynch. But then playing optimal comes in and it throws ??? everywhere. Arcade players take the path of less resistance, aka the easiest way to play so for the most part and I feel I can confidently say that 3/4 of the time if they do let you live, you are probably going to have invest roles check you so they can be sure (wasted check in most scenarios), not have prots on you (you're susp), and the Mafia/Neutrals have a decent reason to target you because you are so important you won't reveal your role. The Mafia/Neutrals targeting can fairly be argued against happening, that because you are susp keeping you alive helps them and that's true. But I've played Arcade on and off since 2012 and if one faction doesn't target the susp town player, the other faction will. But this is getting rather besides the point.

    Basically me opinion is, if you don't want to reveal your role on trial at least offer Town a deal. The mindset where people won't give up their role and just role over and take the lynch as Town has always been a blight in the game and it's probably my lowkey most wanted mentality change in Mafia.

  11. #11

    Re: Claiming a role on the stand

    You see, the problem is that in the mod there are certain roles that are easily fakeable- spy, doc, BG, and vig claiming roleblock

    Mayors when pmed those roles typically lynch the spies, docs, and BGs on the spot, with some marshalls/mayors even lynching vigis that have not shot up to that point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Veliare
    Not given my role to a bloodthirsty town who will just lynch me anyway. Why jump through hoops?

    Thoughts?
    I'd give your role anyways, it may not always work since most people kill prots for the sake of them being easily fakeable, but at least you arn't at fault if they pick wrong. Technically not pming as town could be considered gamethrow, but honestly I don't blame people for it since those roles will get bonked anyways.

  12. #12

    Re: Claiming a role on the stand

    Quote Originally Posted by Veliaire View Post
    I've been playing this for a few years now, and I have come to learn that if a town is hell bent on lynching someone, no amount of pleading on the stand will save them. Recently, I came across a thread where a player was banned for 'gamethrowing' because he did not claim a role to a mayor. Is that really a bannable offense? I've done it too sometimes. Not given my role to a bloodthirsty town who will just lynch me anyway. Why jump through hoops?

    Thoughts?
    There is a thin line between being on the stand and not. As long as you behave "towny" you will never find yourself on the stand.

    Past two days I have been playing with the nickname "sleepi" in mod and haven't been put on the stand once. I think it all begins with how you position yourself in the game. This goes for any alignment.


    While on the stand, it is often important you claim your role and lw. But sometimes(!) good mod players will fake vote you up. At this point you can claim anything reasonable and you can even refuse to claim if you are SURE about the outcome a.k.a people will INNO the vote to find opportunistic guilty votes. This just goes on.


    To answer you; I don't think it is gamethrowing in some situations but all town players should claim a role and lw on stand if you can't convince other players to lynching others ^^

  13. #13

    Re: Claiming a role on the stand

    Quote Originally Posted by bakermir View Post
    There is a thin line between being on the stand and not. As long as you behave "towny" you will never find yourself on the stand.

    Past two days I have been playing with the nickname "sleepi" in mod and haven't been put on the stand once. I think it all begins with how you position yourself in the game. This goes for any alignment.


    While on the stand, it is often important you claim your role and lw. But sometimes(!) good mod players will fake vote you up. At this point you can claim anything reasonable and you can even refuse to claim if you are SURE about the outcome a.k.a people will INNO the vote to find opportunistic guilty votes. This just goes on.


    To answer you; I don't think it is gamethrowing in some situations but all town players should claim a role and lw on stand if you can't convince other players to lynching others ^^
    In the mod? You get put on the stand for dumb reasons, it's why winning as exec is really, really easy. Just spam "N1 5 mass murderer" or whatever and you instantly win once spammed.

  14. #14

 

 

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