Auwt, you have been accused of being illuminati, what say you?
Auwt:
Auwt, you have been accused of being illuminati, what say you?
Auwt:
And for the haters, I actually think this chart from D1 will reveal the illuminati when all is said and done:
Well then you are wrong MM and this is why I asked Martin to check you or YZB here.
MattZed was misunderstood so bad that he ended up playing slightly different and this shouldn't justify you or yzb to gaslight him/me for it. I am almost done with my ISO on you and there is a chance you are town but NONE OF YOU think about the dangers of losing the game if night actions go wrong.
Let's just assume we are indeed playing an Illuminati setup:
If MM is town then Renegade is most possibly a ML for town today because it is obvious if Renegade is gettin lynched here with "Mafia"+illuminati pushing then it means AUwt could really be illumniati. YZB suggesting Auwt to be night killed by CT is self explanatory. This means Auwt is most likely pink or green here by the Martin check + yzb bussing Auwt.
This is why I asked martin to check MM or yzb instead of shooting Auwt. Because VIGILANTE can shoot Auwt here and we can actually check which one of you is the other illuminati.
I am sure me, SB and Frinckles are town here. I am just not sure if mesk or MM is town. One of you is town and other is Illuminati if this is illuminati setup.
This is why vigilante is shooting Auwt either way and Martin is checking one in MM/YZB because if we do 3 NK's at night and GF is still alive or any potential mayor is alive then this game could end. WE DON'T WANT THAT TO HAPPEN AS TOWN. GOT IT????
I want you people to trust me in this, for at least tonight and show you what I mean. This is pretty much obvious that if we are in non-illuminati setup and renegade flips mafia = we win if renegade flips town = we can still win.
If renegade flips pink mafia or we are just in illuminati setup then there is a big chance we lose this if I get voted out tomorrow as per YZB's solve. yzb solve looks almost perfect but in fact it isn't in an illuminati setup. They can win this if yzb is illuminati here with MM/Mesk/Renegade and Auwt. I would rather see Martin check yzb/MM instead of me but if Martin checks me tonight instead of them then I am fine with that too but that would be a waste of night action when I can just prove my role mechanically tonight. I don't need anyones protection during the day. IF there is a doc, they will heal me. If not then I am dying tonight to MAFIA(PINK/RED)
IF there is an escort, do not RB me. I was never RB'd n1 btw I was only trying to see if an escort is going to claim because I know I am vigilante. While escort can be pink or green, I am always green here so yeah I was hunting for possible illuminatis earlier.
Martin should never recant here until he checks multiple people. If we are in illuminati setup then you guys should understand tomorrow is very important if the game isn't over at night then DO NOT VOTE TOMORROW. USE ALL THE TIME. DON'T DO WHAT OBERON DID LAST GAME!!!
Please, do not vote tomorrow if you are town, that's all I am asking
Well, most of it is based off on the MZ + MM interactions earlier on D1. I don't think scum usually creates or gets into that kind of situation often. However, MZ (your slot) is being suspected as of late as a partner to Rene and I think he was the one who started saying he was mind-melding with MM a lot. Which could lend itself to being a possible scum fabrication of a "mindmeld" when it really wasn't.
But, If MZ (your slot) is scum with Renegade as mafia alignment then honestly I think it looks better on MM because I think scum wouldn't open-wolf like that together. It would also imply, if there's illuminati, that MM isn't illuminati because fmpov since Renegade didn't participate, nor explain why he didn't participate, in the "If I am Mafia/Mason, I (do/don't) suspect my teammate" thingy, which just seems to suggest if there is illuminati in the mafia its probably Renegade.
And if its renegade, then it 100% cannot be his mafia teammate that's illuminati. Therefore, if !Scum MZ then MM is basically spewed town from that in all setup worlds.
But, as I've said, I haven't thought about MM too much. Often times that happens because nothing really pings me as scummy from them, or that I've been too lazy to fully read their (usually) paragraphs-long posts.
A.K.A "That One Idiot"
A.K.A "That One Idiot"
I think I'm going to look at his past town games a bit more there.
Its his reaction and/or treatment of Frinckles that I can't tell is more scummy than towny or not.
GTH I thought he pressed his scum-reads (or fought for them) more. Back in our first game in the newbie game that happened in June I think, he was interacting a lot with Ash Lael (who was indeed a wolf but loltown lynched Auwt).
Obviously, that was a first game thing so he may have changed a lot since then.
A.K.A "That One Idiot"
I don't like the fact he spent his remaining motivation giving a long defense of a scumread on a dead town, that can effectively be summarized as "he was p much null until he made an opportunistic read on me", but that might be a player thing I suppose.
I was mainly thinking of the giving up thing he last posted tho. He said "your" win - didn't include himself in it. And he sounds awfully bummed and defeatist given in his town world mafias are about to get lynched and he's about to get an ez win.
Here's one thing that bothers me in thinking there's Illuminati:
I don't trust bakermir's vigilante claim.
I do think if MZ (Bakermir's slot) was vigilante his SoD2 would've been way different and paid MUCH more attention to the illuminati check.
After all, he created this setup and I'm fairly sure he would've thought that Vigilante = Possible illuminati to give some balance to the town game.
Otherwise a vig in A/D setups with a town-siding CT is just hell for the mafia tbh unless both the CT and Vigilante screw up.
And there's this:
Doesn't seem like he's contemplating the setups all that much and tries to hard-push Mesk as illuminati. If MZ's slot is also mafia, I think this heavily implies that both mafia thought (or at least the non-illuminati one) that there isn't any illuminati and are instead preparing illuminati suspicions as scape goats. With Mesk being the more prominent threat.
(I'm presuming Renegade for thinking his buddy, if he's mafia, as non-illuminati given his non-participation to Yzb25's idea)
I also realize this probably means Frinckles wasn't vigilante (as per my earlier confbias suspicions) and he was either killed on n1 to throw off people's reads or simply fear killed to some degree.
A.K.A "That One Idiot"
Also, isn't Renegade like the only "I was role-blocked" claim? Or am I wrong about that?
I mean, then on N2 bakermir tries to "shoot" someone but, OH NO IT LOOKS LIKE THE ILLUMINATI ESCORT PREVENTED ME
THE ILLUMINATI ARE A REAL DEAL GUYS
A.K.A "That One Idiot"
I should note all my reads probably get thrown out of the window if Renegade flips green
but I really doubt that
so yeah
A.K.A "That One Idiot"
I haven't bothered to share this, because I didn't think it was that relevant, but I think MZ/bakermir is the illuminati-mafia rather than Renegade. I just wasn't sure if I could convince you guys to lynch MZ/renegade over the actual red-check. the mafia/illuminati will be a player that half the game has a vested interest not to push day 1. A successful train on them (unless there's bussing) would require every town AND the conspiracy theorist to push through - in other words, it's a nearly impossible train. And the illuminati would be VERY determined to keep their illuminati in the mafia alive as he's the most critical member.
MZ/bakermir fit the bill in my eyes as someone who was unjustifiably hard to lynch, given his scumminess, to the point it did seem like half the game conveniently had an excuse not to vote him (I remember Auwt commiting to a Frinckles vote then immediately going to bed without even acknowledging the MZ or taking any questions on his decision. He had already stated he believed there was a scum in MZ/MM, so why not even consider the train?). But I'll admit that's clouded by a lot of bias given most ppl tend to feel that way about their scumreads.
Also, I can't help but wonder why Renegade wouldn't hop on the MZ train if he was really illuminati mafia, and showed absolutely no interest in doing so to "ensure at least some lynch goes through". If non-illuminati mafia got lynched d1, illuminati would have free reign over the nightkill. That's way too juicy not to be worth taking the gamble on, and tho MZ only came to L-2, you were still around to add your vote if someone else put him at L-1.
I think if one person could convince their mafia teammate they're not illuminati, it'd be MZ. He understood this setup inside out and how to play it in such a way to give the indication to his teammate that he really is a non-illuminati mafia. I think renegade not replying to the question was a sign of growing doubt in his mind towards MZ after two ppl had crawled out the woodwork to give sheriff red checks. You have to get suspicious of a conspiracy to kill you and take the nightkill after that happens, or at least a conspiracy to off the consig and kill with impunity.
But whichever of rene or bakermir is illuminati isn't that important. That's the beauty in just lynching them both. No worries about accidentally keeping around the one that's illuminati.
I guess the setup induces this kind of paranoia naturally, but there's too much shenaniganry for an illuminati to not exist. MM still hasn't done any serious push on a scumread the entire game. His reactions to things are towny, but that's it. He's been totally passive and his MZ read has morphed into a self-aware meme at this point. It's nothing like what he was doing last game as town, where he was pegging scums and raining hell. Maybe he's more busy, idk. Maybe Auwt also happened to be a natural illuminati read who got the illuminati check too, idk. I just find it all very implausible.
there is nothing I can do to stop the lynch on you even if you are doctor. town is lost this game if we follow yzb honestly. now you could be mafia gettin bussed by illuminati partner of yours, you two could be masons too I don't know. But based on my reads the exact illuminati team could be Auwt/MM/Mesk and yzb is just your mason or mafia partner. or we could swap slots here but the setup is solved FMPOV. I only need Martin and remaining town to trust me here with not placing a vote tomorrow right away and see what I can do tonight.
1. MM was whiteknighting DM saying his play is too bad to be coming from scum but at the same time doesn't give the same treatment for mesk, they were scumreading mesk d1 while both MM and MattZed were voting DM.
2. MM have been giving very shallow reads entire game. yzb got a clear for having bad but consistent logic - Auwt got a "natural progression" and was never pushed in contrast to p#534 - He didn't push Frinckles until the very end, he voted him a couple of times with a question or two but he didn't seem serious with their push. p#601 they pick Frinckles suggestion on eliminating Martin and calls Frinckles for illuminati slip.
3. I don't see MM scumhunt this game at all. He have been coasting behind MattZed's back mostly. The only thing I can find is that their serious pressure was on Frinckles and that only happened 1 hour before EoD1 where he remembers that it is MAJ only.
If I had the chance then I would have voted you or Auwt d1 if not DM. MattZed played his own game and I don't really see why MM is so relaxed about the claims. Host RNG'd town roles so if there is Illuminati then there is a good chance I am right on this with my solve. If it is just mafia game then Martin and mafia are losing tonight if we go with yzb plan. This could eventually hurt town if we are in illumniati setup.
The problem is, you and Auwt aren't really defending yourselves against the checks which seems like the game is being shepherded towards one direction which I find rather ridiculous if illuminati exists. If it is non-illumniati setup then we can only win by eliminating anyone here except SB, me and Martin. I think I am right on MM being potential scum and yzb is likely pushing us in a bad direction here be it intentional or not. I don't care if martin gets to win or not but I do care if town is at the verge of losing and I am never letting that happen. If you flip red renegade then I am shooting Auwt. If you flip green, I am shooting YZB.
I can't blame you for it. Ladder games are seriously problematic and vets do tend to circlejerk. I was ML'd on spirits because I had no power at that level when I got thunderdomed by another vet claiming fake tracker check on me. We can only hope others don't repeat the same mistakes again
During my observation d1 and participating on half way d2 this was my solve;
D1 = Flip one in Renegade/DM/Auwt. FoS on YZB/MM
D2 = Flip MM
D3 = Continue with my PoE
EoD1 votes are quite telling honestly when I look at my rolecard. It is hilarious how yzb and MM think MattZed is Renegades partner when there is nothing that could connect the two. If there was then I would have noticed that. I think it is all just fluff.
d1 Frinckles and MattZed both were dadv and I can see town got really confused by it so I can't really blame sb martin and renegade not joining the top wagons after all. I am convinced that Illuminati/Mafia have no reason to stay off wagons
People keep asking me to defend myself.
Do you realize I have nothing to defend myself against a coinflip right?
What do you guys want?
My only unique position in this game can tell, if Martin is telling the truth, that there is no Illuminati in this game.
How the hell could I prove you that the last statement is correct ??
well, I am sorry if you are town but you are part of everyone's PoE without Martin's check on you. Mesk voted you, Renegade voted you, Martin has a possible illumniati check on you, I am shooting you tonight. Only person that could be your partners are MM/YZB here imo. Maybe mesk/sb if we consider bussing. With the way it seems both D1 and D2 people turned back on you really quickly.. I don't really see why I shouldn't kill you tonight. You can't be TPR in any world and I base this on my meta with you. I know you are more towny when you roll TPR and when you are scum you are very aggressive in tone, not careless like this. I remember how you pocketed Mesk in mattzed's other setup where we were both scum. So this only means you are Citizen green or Citizen pink and either way we could have voted you today or even better YESTERDAY but YZB claimed a red check on Renegade and now everyone is voting Renegade without even thinking twice.
You say this but vote Renegade. You got ML'd for the same reason on insane asylum game because you thought me and ceko were scum d1 and it turns out all 3 of us were town.
I am not voting you today because I am shooting you tonight if renegade is mafia. if he is town then I am shooting yzb. If there is an escort then they know who to RB and that is not me. If GF is still alive and goes for NK on me then you all know what I was without losing my LW and I trust rest of you to figure this out then. I have given my reasons why there is atleast 1 scum in MM/YZB if not both. There is atleast 1 scum in you rene mesk sb and I would rather see SB and Mesk live. between you and rene I am sure I will be shooting you. SO it is all PoE and thats why I apologize to you if you are town dude
My vote is where it should be.
Yzb and Mesk got a red check on Renegade.
At least one of them has to be telling the truth since there aren't 3 members of the Mafia (they can't all be bussing Renegade).
Renegade decided to call it an Illuminati push and did not deny being red.
I know for a fact there isn't any pink here.
This is a mechanical solve for me.
The vote I'm placing right now is not a read or a thought as you stated.
I would call it mechanical checkmate.
As previously said, I cannot defend myself in any ways.
But what I can do however is push the confirmed scum.
I hardclaim Vigilante and will be going after YZB or MM tomorrow based on Renegade and Auwt flips. If Renegade flip mafia I am 100% shooting Auwt, If Renegade is town then I am shooting YZB.
If I am alive and if what I promised didn't happen just turbo me tomorrow.
Thats my LW.
Renegade and Auwt, I am sorry again for this if you are town but this has to be done.
-vote Renegade
Renegade has been hammered. Stand by for the host's review and day-end post!
Auwt (1 [L-4]): Renegade
Renegade (5 [L-0]): MartinGG99, Stealthbomber16, Marshmallow Marshall, Auwt, bakermir