S-FM 318: Super Basic Redemption (9P)

[S-FM AIVION]

I said because you asked why.

You voted me first and then I asked, though.

It could easily be argued that asking someone to elaborate on a vote is actually town indicative. In this case it is~!

[S-FM AIVION]

In my experience people that ask why are scum.

The only town indicative action, in your opinion, is to ignore it?

What should town do when they get voted?

[S-FM yzb25]

In my experience people that ask why are scum.

I guess in your version of reality, Light must've been scum! He asked why people were voting him... and then he got yeeted. And flipped town.

Why are you so... stupid?

[S-FM yzb25]

@S-FM Magoroth

Anything to add to this?

[S-FM Marshmallow Marshall]

You voted me first and then I asked, though.

It could easily be argued that asking someone to elaborate on a vote is actually town indicative. In this case it is~!

Thats the point town generally would come out swinging. Not sit their with a thumb stuck up their ass. Asking oh why me.

[S-FM yzb25]

Thats the point town generally would come out swinging. Not sit their with a thumb stuck up their ass. Asking oh why me.

I don't want to get involved in this bickering between the two of you, but it's honestly infuriating how illogical you are.

I wish more people were posting.

[S-FM Marshmallow Marshall]

I guess in your version of reality, Light must've been scum! He asked why people were voting him... and then he got yeeted. And flipped town.

Why are you so... stupid?

All I recall him saying in his defense, is that if you lynched him. You would regret it. In lemans terms.

[S-FM AIVION]

Thats the point town generally would come out swinging. Not sit their with a thumb stuck up their ass. Asking oh why me.

I did swing back, though? I applied your same logic to your situation and illustrated the illegitimacy of it. There is nothing to swing at without the voter giving a reason. Asking the question was a precursor to the swing back.

I would argue the opposite. Scum would be more likely to be voted with a legitimate reason and therefore would not want the voter to elaborate, instead blindly scumpainting in return.

[S-FM yzb25]

All I recall him saying in his defense, is that if you lynched him. You would regret it. In lemans terms.

[S-FM Marshmallow Marshall]

I did swing back, though? I applied your same logic to your situation and illustrated the illegitimacy of it. There is nothing to swing at without the voter giving a reason. Asking the question was a precursor to the swing back.

I would argue the opposite. Scum would be more likely to be voted with a legitimate reason and therefore would not want the voter to elaborate, instead blindly scumpainting in return.

I Already gave my answer to your question.

[S-FM AIVION]

I Already gave my answer to your question.

You are shying away from the argument. I do not believe your personal experience is wide enough to warrant hard reads based strictly on what has happened to you in past games.

I am done with this pointless conversation. You are obviously too stubborn to see reason. It would almost seem as though you have some sort of agenda in which logic and reasoning do not play any part.

[S-FM Marshmallow Marshall]

Maybe you should read the thread again.

[S-FM Marshmallow Marshall]

You are shying away from the argument. I do not believe your personal experience is wide enough to warrant hard reads based strictly on what has happened to you in past games.

I am done with this pointless conversation. You are obviously too stubborn to see reason. It would almost seem as though you have some sort of agenda in which logic and reasoning do not play any part.

Well its not my job to do the work for everyone.

[S-FM yzb25]

Maybe you should read the thread again.

You're honestly hopeless. I'd be okay with lynching you today. People in favor of lynching Light said it was because he wasn't contributing to day and communicated in a manner that was nonsensical and/or obnoxious. You're in the same boat right now. UwU

GOOFY

Really wish @S-FM Magoroth would stop lurking. Wish more people were posting.

[S-FM Marshmallow Marshall]

You're honestly hopeless. I'd be okay with lynching you today. People in favor of lynching Light said it was because he wasn't contributing to day and communicated in a manner that was nonsensical and/or obnoxious. You're in the same boat right now. UwU

GOOFY

Really wish @S-FM Magoroth would stop lurking. Wish more people were posting.

Thats, fine bothers me not. I agree more opinions would be nice.

[S-FM Stealthbomber16]

I am....so disappointed. Also not surprised Light flipped green. U_U

[S-FM Stealthbomber16]

I am surprised PTB flipped green though. I thought his AtE at the end of the day there and him whining about removing his vote was scummy. Guess it was genuine.

[S-FM Magoroth]

Don't ping me, I can't see the pings anyway. Permissions are messed up. And I hate when people get called out for reading a thread, shining a negative light for NAI crap.

[S-FM Magoroth]

First, of all. If you are town should feel bad that light is gone. Because, he was town. Town is now in a worse position. With two town now dead.

Also, yeet sounds like something that a lemming would yell when going off a cliff.

"Light" had every opportunity to stop yesterday. The only person I can think of that would stick to the gambit is Light himself, but fake Light was trying too hard.

I also, think in that post of yours you are trying, to take heat off Aivion.

Can you give me a post on why scum Aivion votes for Light in that scenario? And why would scum kill anyone on that Light train? I can admit Aivion asking "why" is funny, but my points seem more alignment indicative, me thinks.

[S-FM Distorted]

THIS IS A LONG POST AND YOU WILL READ IT BECAUSE IT'S IMPORTANT


I have little time atm, doing my best. I've read the thread and drew my conclusions overnight, though. First of all, mandatory "told you" about Light, although I can't really blame townies for going for it. It's definetly a mislynch I'd push as scum, though, so I'd expect at least 1 scum to be on the wagon. That being said, I feel like there's a more urgent matter at hand...

Hewwo! Sorry for my absence my friends, I've been very busy with work the last two days. But, have no fear! I have returned!

Okay, that's fair.

UwU no strong reads yet. Hard to sift through Day One shitposts!

However, Distorted has been making a healthy attempt at pocketing PTB. But that's all I've really been able to gather!

Lots of circlejerking and low effort painting!

Fair, shitposts are numerous and activity was scarce, but you're one of the causes of that situation.
I don't even know what you're trying to say about me here, or whether "attemtping to pocket PTB" is towny or scummy in your eyes. And by the way, I merely jumped in his pocket, so... meh? Shows you've read the thread, though.

UwU rhetorical questions? Looks like your lips are movin' without making a sound!

Great way to look active while doing nothing, goofy.

Great way to poke at/discredit Mag without committing to anything and without placing a vote anywhere on D1.

All I see is post farming! Ahhh!

Says the guy who has given literally no content at that point of the game. Lol. This very post and the ones before it actually are post farming, done so that you look like you've said something without making the game advance in any way.

Post farms and complains about post farming. It's big brain time!

^
This post is interesting because I definetly don't see scum!Mag saying that to scum!Yzb. If I'm right and yzb is scum (yea I didn't state it yet, but surprise! I think he's scum), Magoroth gets a lot of interaction townpoints for this.

What else is there to do? Rather inconsequential day chat despite having 48 hrs to yield anything valuable..

weren't you blaming others for this earlier though? and you're STILL not giving anything =P

Just got here but this looks EXACTLY like the kind of thing scum would do.
Also I agree Mags weird little policy lynch looks bad.

I agree about the yzb part. I'll even add although he complains about shitposts, inactivity and all, not only does he contribute to it, he also seems quite happy about it. His tone is completely unfitting for a townie who's sad to see shitposts and inactivity.
For all of this, off with his head.

-vote S-FM yzb25

Also, yzb isn't like this at all, have some respect lol.

As for Mag, I actually think it may be so bad it's actually good. Not pro-town or really logical, but somewhat town-telling. "Too scummy to be scum", needlessly committing his life to what he would know to be an easy mislynch assuming scum!Mag (because it necessarily puts him in a bad light). Of course, there's always the tinfoil possibility of WIFOM, but I'm not gonna get into that because it's almost always wrong.

[S-FM yzb25]

THIS IS A LONG POST AND YOU WILL READ IT BECAUSE IT'S IMPORTANT


I have little time atm, doing my best. I've read the thread and drew my conclusions overnight, though. First of all, mandatory "told you" about Light, although I can't really blame townies for going for it. It's definetly a mislynch I'd push as scum, though, so I'd expect at least 1 scum to be on the wagon. That being said, I feel like there's a more urgent matter at hand...


Okay, that's fair.

Fair, shitposts are numerous and activity was scarce, but you're one of the causes of that situation.
I don't even know what you're trying to say about me here, or whether "attemtping to pocket PTB" is towny or scummy in your eyes. And by the way, I merely jumped in his pocket, so... meh? Shows you've read the thread, though.

Great way to poke at/discredit Mag without committing to anything and without placing a vote anywhere on D1.

Says the guy who has given literally no content at that point of the game. Lol. This very post and the ones before it actually are post farming, done so that you look like you've said something without making the game advance in any way.

^
This post is interesting because I definetly don't see scum!Mag saying that to scum!Yzb. If I'm right and yzb is scum (yea I didn't state it yet, but surprise! I think he's scum), Magoroth gets a lot of interaction townpoints for this.

weren't you blaming others for this earlier though? and you're STILL not giving anything =P


I agree about the yzb part. I'll even add although he complains about shitposts, inactivity and all, not only does he contribute to it, he also seems quite happy about it. His tone is completely unfitting for a townie who's sad to see shitposts and inactivity.
For all of this, off with his head.

-vote S-FM yzb25

Also, yzb isn't like this at all, have some respect lol.

As for Mag, I actually think it may be so bad it's actually good. Not pro-town or really logical, but somewhat town-telling. "Too scummy to be scum", needlessly committing his life to what he would know to be an easy mislynch assuming scum!Mag (because it necessarily puts him in a bad light). Of course, there's always the tinfoil possibility of WIFOM, but I'm not gonna get into that because it's almost always wrong.

Have you not read at all Day 2? Your only issues with me are from Day 1. Lol.

[S-FM Distorted]

"Light" had every opportunity to stop yesterday. The only person I can think of that would stick to the gambit is Light himself, but fake Light was trying too hard.

Can you give me a post on why scum Aivion votes for Light in that scenario? And why would scum kill anyone on that Light train? I can admit Aivion asking "why" is funny, but my points seem more alignment indicative, me thinks.

I don't mean to answer for MM and would really like to see MM reply to your post, but I feel like it's important to bring this up: PTB probably died because they were:

- active (which is relatively rare in this game, it seems)
- in a relatively good spot when it comes to looking towny
- probably being too close to the truth to scum's liking

3rd point makes a lot of sense in my mind considering a scum!yzb world, which I really think we live in.

On another topic, I think MM is mildly to averagely towny for this:

-vote unvote

This person [Light_Yagami].

Because, why not. Im actually quite surprised he didnt scum read me for my first post being a vote though. typically that's something Kira would do.

This is a genuine-looking reasoning that I can relate to, and it has the peculiar attribute of going against scum's interest, considering how Light_Yagami was a low hanging fruit; it takes pressure off him. Plus, it wasn't done to look towny, since it wasn't even explained in the first place (we had to ask him).
I also like that Stealthbomber liked MM for the reason I stated above in his list of reads (https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showt...1#post909431); I also find his list relatable in general.

[S-FM Distorted]

Have you not read at all Day 2? Your only issues with me are from Day 1. Lol.

"lol" yeah because your D1 is shit =)

[S-FM yzb25]

Obligatory GOOFY moment @S-FM Distorted

[S-FM Magoroth]

Absolutely not trying to detract from Distorted's post, but given that no one said anything about my cop claim yesterday being a bad idea, some fake cop claims being thrown around to protect me would be a fantastic idea.

[S-FM yzb25]

"lol" yeah because your D1 is shit =)

I think 3/4 of the people in this game were shit D1 UwU

[S-FM Magoroth]

I'm a fan of Distorted's wall post, and you can consider my vote on yzb.

[S-FM Distorted]

That's precisely why I apologized for being rather inactive, UwU. However, like I also said, the posts of day 1 had yielded nothing substantial. It was a mistake to yeet, especially for such foolish reasoning as "I don't like how this guy is typing". I find it puzzling Marshmallow Marshall is FoSing with the reasoning of "only scum asks why". Speaks of somebody who lacks any logical reasoning, or somebody intentionally trying to mislead town.

Why are you so banal about bringing up the 'yeet' thing? This is, like, your third post about it. You're not benefitting town when you create disorganization and make actual conversation difficult.

You're goofy.

More pointless poking (and still no read). Plus, if you really thought lynching anyone D1 was a mistake, why didn't you vote for skip and why didn't you advocate for others to do the same instead of shitposting, accusing others of post farming and poking at people without committing?

also, that's NAI but "yeet" sucks, and the description of the shout of lemmings committing seppuku is appropriate.

[S-FM Distorted]

Absolutely not trying to detract from Distorted's post, but given that no one said anything about my cop claim yesterday being a bad idea, some fake cop claims being thrown around to protect me would be a fantastic idea.

I think we should let the cop decide himself of his strategy. Your claim already is WIFOM for scum, let's not lose meaningful discussion to add probably useless layers of it.

I think 3/4 of the people in this game were shit D1 UwU

You certainly were part of that 3/4 and didn't hide it though lol. Plus, I just checked D2 and you aren't much better... it's just poking/covertly insulting MM/literally insulting MM, no reads, no conclusions, nothing of what lacked during D1 and more of what shouldn't have been there (or at least what shouldn't have dominated your game).

[S-FM Distorted]

Have you not read at all Day 2? Your only issues with me are from Day 1. Lol.

You're not even dismissing my points lol...

Anyway, out of the tunnel for now, my case was made. After yzb, I'd be looking at AIVION and Mike. Both happen to be on the Light train without having led it like Magoroth did, and both happen to be my individual suspects from D1, Mike being more of a "policy suspect" or a "lack of content suspect" than a real scumread, and AIVION being an real one for multiple reasons, chiefly because of the nonsensical list of reads:

Current Vote List

TOWNLEAN
Mag
Aivion
Yzb
MM
STEALTHBOMBER

SCUMLEAN
Light Yagami IMPOSTER WEEB
PTB too paranoid to much projection
Distorted saying things that look like they make sense but don't stand up to any scrutiny (SEE POST 66)

which was later vaguely and unclearly dismissed as a joke:

It's precisely as serious as the posts before it.

and even later clearly dismissed as a joke after I voted him:

It means my reads weren't particularly serious! Sorry if I wasn't clear.

Where is everyone?

The list doesn't look like a joke, though. There are short explainations that look weak but serious. Everyone's in there. There are no jokes, not even bad ones (where would I be supposed to laugh, exactly?).

As for the rest of AIVION's activity, it's a lot of filler posts that bring very little to absolutely nothing to the game; very few actual reads, the most serious (or at least the one that was claimed to be serious) of them being this:

I dislike when people make perpendicular, nonsensical arguments.

-vote S-FM Light_Yagami

Which isn't horrible, but is terribly weak and sheepy, with a significant dose of opportunism in the context.


There are virtually no interactions that would be even slightly meaningful between AIVION and yzb25. Considering all of this, I'd lynch both of them. As for Mike, he's a wildcard to me (null + not very useful), so I'm not dismissing him as a possibility but am definetly not putting it forward.

[S-FM Distorted]

And on those words, I go off.
God bless you, and God bless the United States of America.

[S-FM AIVION]

which was later vaguely and unclearly dismissed as a joke:
and even later clearly dismissed as a joke after I voted him:


The list doesn't look like a joke, though. There are short explainations that look weak but serious. Everyone's in there. There are no jokes, not even bad ones (where would I be supposed to laugh, exactly?).

As for the rest of AIVION's activity, it's a lot of filler posts that bring very little to absolutely nothing to the game; very few actual reads, the most serious (or at least the one that was claimed to be serious) of them being this:

I said it wasn't particularly serious. There are plenty of places it could exist between not serious and joke. I was trying to convey the idea that the reads weren't set in stone. Of course they were weak, look at the state of the game before that post was made~! Nowhere did I indicate that it was a joke. You are misrepresenting what I said. I was trying to make due with what I had because pushing the game forward with trolly day 1 is difficult.

I poked at PTB and got scumread for it. I've poked a few other times and asked clarifying questions on more than one occasion. I am doing plenty of work.

As for YZB and I, please point out anyone with whom he's had a serious interaction other than yourself and MM. They have made about a dozen posts, it's statistically likely that any given person hasn't had a meaningful interaction with someone who basically hasn't been playing the game.

[S-FM AIVION]

Excuse me, two dozen posts, most of which were pointing out flawed logic without offering any alternatives.

My point still stands!

[S-FM Distorted]

I said it wasn't particularly serious. There are plenty of places it could exist between not serious and joke. I was trying to convey the idea that the reads weren't set in stone. Of course they were weak, look at the state of the game before that post was made~! Nowhere did I indicate that it was a joke. You are misrepresenting what I said. I was trying to make due with what I had because pushing the game forward with trolly day 1 is difficult.

I poked at PTB and got scumread for it. I've poked a few other times and asked clarifying questions on more than one occasion. I am doing plenty of work.

As for YZB and I, please point out anyone with whom he's had a serious interaction other than yourself and MM. They have made about a dozen posts, it's statistically likely that any given person hasn't had a meaningful interaction with someone who basically hasn't been playing the game.

You did poke PTB, which was absolutely pointless and couldn't lead to anything meaningful. Plus, there's stuff like this:

No it's not dumb! This game is probably all veterans. A healthy level of paranoia is good for town! As long as you don't overdo it.

Which contrasts with:

Current Vote List

TOWNLEAN
Mag
Aivion
Yzb
MM
STEALTHBOMBER

SCUMLEAN
Light Yagami IMPOSTER WEEB
PTB too paranoid to much projection
Distorted saying things that look like they make sense but don't stand up to any scrutiny (SEE POST 66)

And as you said, you poked others a few times... but never did you actually commit to a push or do anything that would get useful information to appear.


Oh, so it wasn't a joke, but it wasn't serious... what was it, then? D1 reads are rarely set in stone. Plus, that does not explain any of the following:
- the weak reasonings to scumread people
- Mag being over you in your town ranking
- a townlean on yzb, right after yourself in the list, while he had literally only shitposted at that point of the game
Trying to do what you can on early trolly D1 is absolutely serious, though. It only seems you're trying to find a semantic hole to hide your inconsistence into right now.


I was saying you two were not incompatible at all as a scumteam to show my world made sense, not that you two had associative scumtells. Now that I put my head further into the tunnel by writing this post, though, I find the random yzb townlean quite interesting. Nothing major, but still interesting.

[S-FM Distorted]

Excuse me, two dozen posts, most of which were pointing out flawed logic without offering any alternatives.

My point still stands!

That is accurate. However, it also is appliable to you. Reading your ISO, I found a lot of poking without giving any reads or reaching any conclusions (even when it would have been really easy to draw conclusions, and even when I literally asked you to draw one). I'm thinking about the PTB - Stealthbomber16 interaction here, which really looked TvT and that you called a "dick measuring contest"; you never followed up on that. Outside of that, you've been advocating for people to avoid claiming TPR (which I actually agree with to a rather large extent, but it does not turn it into a major contribution), and you've shitposted.

Also, judging from the colored part, I conclude you should be voting yzb right now since you agree that this is how he played this game; is that correct? If it is, why isn't your vote there?

[S-FM Stealthbomber16]

I have a feeling Distorted's com is distorted because wow lol.

[S-FM Stealthbomber16]

I'm working right now, but hopefully after work I'll have some original ideas. Kinda hard to not sheep distorted right now lol but he is making some Points.

[S-FM Magoroth]

just clarifying this one bit

- Mag being over you in your town ranking

Current Vote List

TOWNLEAN
Mag
Aivion
Yzb
MM
STEALTHBOMBER

SCUMLEAN
Light Yagami IMPOSTER WEEB
PTB too paranoid to much projection
Distorted saying things that look like they make sense but don't stand up to any scrutiny (SEE POST 66)

Is that in order, or just two groups?

Just two groups!

not contradicting anything else though

[Mike]

I have a feeling Distorted's com is distorted because wow lol.

Please lets not com hunt Thank you.

[S-FM Magoroth]

It's a little quiet, but I don't mind it too much. I can reiterate my thoughts if anyone wants me to. Otherwise, my vote would still be on yzb.

[S-FM Distorted]

I'm working right now, but hopefully after work I'll have some original ideas. Kinda hard to not sheep distorted right now lol but he is making some Points.

lol thanks. Do you have any alternate worlds to propose, maybe? Just so that we're not doomed if I happen to be wrong, as a failsafe.

just clarifying this one bit

not contradicting anything else though

Oops. This doesn't diminish the value of what I said much, but good catch.

It's a little quiet, but I don't mind it too much. I can reiterate my thoughts if anyone wants me to. Otherwise, my vote would still be on yzb.

I'm more looking for activity from Mike, and to a lesser but still significant extent from MM and SB atm. That being said, of course, more life into the game is welcome, no matter who it comes from.

[Mike]

Since you all received this same DM from me. "This is a copy paste message sent to all alive players in the game. Asking because Game appears to be dead. Do you want the game to continue or just end? please respond to this."

Do Not respond to this Message.

Everyone wants the game to continue. No need to worry. As a host I was just checking to make sure people are enjoying a game not being stuck in one. Game continues.

Do Not respond to this Message.
@S-FM Mike
@S-FM Distorted
@S-FM Magoroth
@S-FM yzb25
@S-FM AIVION
@S-FM Stealthbomber16
@S-FM Marshmallow Marshall

[S-FM Stealthbomber16]

You know, a smart person once said that if we followed the wishes of the dead town, town would win.

Ill vote Mike, yzb or Mag today. Of the three I believe Mike should be the first to go, followed by Mag. I feel like Mag is a scum trying to paint Light_Yagami, or a town whos getting too hung up on avatars and RVS. Mike is taking a less active role and yzb is the mindless sheep watching it all unfold.

What if he actually called out both mafia in this

-vote S-FM Mike

[S-FM Stealthbomber16]

It's a little quiet, but I don't mind it too much. I can reiterate my thoughts if anyone wants me to. Otherwise, my vote would still be on yzb.

Who is scum? You have the game solved or TMI?

[S-FM Mike]

First off, I'm not sorry Light is gone. If I get voted today, I'll still consider my participation in this game a double positive one because I managed to find a townsperson.

Second, SB16 is clean. But as cop, this is not a hard claim because I want to try to find scum tomorrow. If I die though, I think sb is a good person to lead the town. I chose not to reaction test someone because I'm not trying to get a bullet as fake cop.

Aivion as scum doesn't add another vote for Light.

Furthermore, my inclination is that scum were not on the light train and didn't actively want light to be yeeted. They would have rather had mag vs light go into day 2. And killing PTB makes the push against the people on Light's train more focused, as PTB was obviously most towny.

I wish Yzb would have done something more useful than call out people for "post farming", but the wifom with not cominig back for EoD is pretty good.

Given that scum knew that light was bad, how hard did they try to get another person yeeted yesterday. It kind of seemed like it was onto Mike and Aivion, wasn't it?

Are you claiming cop??

[S-FM Mike]

I claim greencheck on SB16 too

[S-FM Mike]

How is this possible?

[S-FM Mike]

Who is scum? You have the game solved or TMI?

I think MM is mafia here. There were quick to scumpaint AIVION start of day 2 and they were scumpain PTB on day1. MM can't be town here. Are you MM's partner?

[S-FM Mike]

Night 1

S-FM Light_Yagami (4 [L-1]):
S-FM PowersThatBe, S-FM AIVION, S-FM Mike, S-FM Magoroth
S-FM Mike (2 [L-3]):
S-FM Distorted, S-FM Light_Yagami
S-FM Magoroth (1 [L-4]):
S-FM Stealthbomber16


MM and YZB. Mafia didn't vote because there was no reason for it.

[S-FM Marshmallow Marshall]

I claim greencheck on SB16 too

So, you are saying. That you are countering said cop claim?