Nice didn’t even know this started and I haven’t read a single thing.
I don't see any town motivation in Frinckles play. Aside from maybe a very stretched performance trying to read reactions towards him, the fact he openly discussed his own scum-play and said that he was a try-hard (the complete opposite of what hes doing) struck as very scummy to me. I don't like when people try to twist their own meta.
I am working RN, I’ll contribute more after work.
I saw Frinckles coming in here with a lot of energy. Usually that comes from town.
Also, Unk's point about Frinckles calling out his own meta and then acting out against it seems like a weak point IMO.
It's such a weak strategy for a scum that it's probably not a strategy at all.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but if we're serious about Helz's switcher strategy, then we shouldn't be too vocal about our townreads until day 2. We definitely shouldn't be trying to talk about towncores and stuff. Otherwise, we'll increase the chances we end up lynching a town-turned switcher on day 2 that we really liked.
I mean, you shouldn't be too vocal about townreads in general in mafia but I digress.
Day 1 is probably one of the best days to lynch scum. As of right now there are no leads (real or fake) to go off of, and nothing clearing anyone. Frinckles and Martin have both came off as fishing for potential teammates to me and that's what I would expect scum to be doing.
4 Trolling / RVS vote
* 10 Pushes against MattZed's Switcher plan calling it breaking.
11 Claims to have not read the setup
18 Pokes MartinGG99 for giving him fast town cred
* 23 Says his reads list is now a friends list and Martin is his top Friend follwed by Naz
30 Trolling
34 Friends Unknown
38 Banter
* 42 States his D1 goal is making a friends list
44 Friends Me
52 Posts a friends list of Martin, Me and Naz (Unknowns Missing?)
54 Clarifys adding Unknown
68 Pokes Matts gambit as a potential BD soft
71 Points to his previous post
77 Votes Renegade
78 Town reads Matt
80 Calls out Renagade for lurking
83 "Friends don’t vote friends friend"
86 Points out Renagades meta is lurking when he gets TPR or scum role
* 92 101 Claims he is not the switcher and that his vote is scum hunting
105 Talks about his meta
107 Clever post on meta. NAI but I got a kick out of the Meta-Meta wordplay there
113 Unvotes and 'sends friend request' to Renegade after Renagade sates Frinkles reasoning is genuine and he is reaction testing.
117 States he will change his avatar
* 120 Making friends = scum?
126 Responds to Renegate pointing out that the majority of players will be on his friends list
** 135 Here he suggests that the reads list and friends list are separate things which is in contrast to his post 23 where he stated that his reads list was now a friends list. He very specifically says that wolves can be friends too. This looks a lot to me like something a switcher would say given that he does not have a team yet.
142 Points to his meta when I poke him
His post 10 was the first one of real note. I took 2 things from this.
1- Pushing against breaking the setup does not generally come from a townie prespective. D1 town players naturally angle to snag every advantage they can get. I would expect pushing against that to be Scum sided AI.
2- He very specifically says "I am not doing that for the next 48 hours." That is a very specific amount of time. This is in response to Matt suggesting the switcher should reveal who he switched with D2. This sounds very much like a switcher voicing that he will not act on the plan today, but may tomorrow. This statement is unnatural in that any other perspective would voice either for or against and not give a 'Not right now.' This looks very much like a switcher slip to me. I also noticed despite conversations continuing on the subject he never touches the conversation about the switcher again. I generally find Aversion more telling than interaction in some situations and this would be something I would expect from a neutral perspective.
His next post of note is post 23 Here he voices his focus as making friends. He doubles down on that in his post 42. This also speaks to the perspective of a switcher. A townie would want to hunt scum and scum would want to find their team mates but a switcher's focus is on staying alive and "Making friends." I will also note at that time the 2 players he voiced were MartinGG who gave some fast town cred on Frinckles and Naz who only popped in and said he didnt read the setup.
Then in post 92 He has a very real lack of concern for revealing TPR's. This also appears to come from a non-town mindset.
In post 120 he borderline points to himself as scum stating that making friends = scum. This looks like signaling to scum players. This is repeated more blatantly in post 135 This post screams "I am a neutral" by flat out saying wolves could potentially be friends. This fits in perfectly with the mindset the switcher would have knowing that tomorrow he will be either town or triad.
In a word I do believe Frinckles is not town and is very specifically our Switcher. My vote will stay here for now.
@Frinckles Care to confirm? If you allow yourself to be leashed I see no reason for you to be lynched.
Intellectual growth comes from discussions, not arguments. If you are unwilling to change your position and hear the other persons side you are closed minded and wasting your time.
If you can not clearly explain what the other sides reasoning is you can not disagree with their position because you do not understand it.
I have so many thoughts on @Helz 's ISO but I want to hear what Frinckles has to say first.
Gtg back to work, cya all later.
@Helz post is a lot to digest. Gone for a bit will BBL.
Can you explain why you think it's weak? I've seen scum do this in games that I've played in, (although that was a while ago, I don't expect it would change that fast). I also want to know why you're shutting out single points and not the rest of the argument on Frinckles.
For me it certainly is.
Scum hunting will be hard enough with the Triad not having an informed perspective. The switcher will make it even more difficult because alignments can change. We will literally need to scum hunt individually each day because your town read from the day before means nothing given their alignment could have changed.
Intellectual growth comes from discussions, not arguments. If you are unwilling to change your position and hear the other persons side you are closed minded and wasting your time.
If you can not clearly explain what the other sides reasoning is you can not disagree with their position because you do not understand it.
Intellectual growth comes from discussions, not arguments. If you are unwilling to change your position and hear the other persons side you are closed minded and wasting your time.
If you can not clearly explain what the other sides reasoning is you can not disagree with their position because you do not understand it.
Gawd that was ugly formatting on my part.
I apologize for posting something that poorly structured. Getting ready to head out and just rushed it.
Intellectual growth comes from discussions, not arguments. If you are unwilling to change your position and hear the other persons side you are closed minded and wasting your time.
If you can not clearly explain what the other sides reasoning is you can not disagree with their position because you do not understand it.
Yeah that's my bad, I read it as "Town Random" and not "Town read".
To answer your question, I think Helz is my biggest town-read as of right now. He noticed the same potential signalling that Frinckles has been doing that nobody else seemed to care about. I also like how his answers in the switcher discussion. It came off to me when I was thinking about he wanted to weaponize the switcher, and I agree that there are quite a few situations where lynching the switcher isn't the best play.
MattZed leans town, but im holding off on that because aside from the beginning when he began the discussion on Switcher it's been more of a gut read. I could also see Renegade easily being town just from the way he interacted with his train/the counter train that started on Martin.
Hmmm well I suppose I should clarify that I don't townread or scumread that statement; I feel that it's NAI. If it was meant to be a WIFOMmy gambit to get townread or influence others, I would say it's failed in that regard.
As for my read. I admittedly didn't notice Frinckles' potential signalling. So. No. My read isn't as strong as before.