lmao
lmao
This is a not exactly friendly reminder to keep posts on topic. Spammy/unrelated posts will be moved/deleted and infracted.
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White supremacists and the mentality they bring, along with what they influence directly or indirectly, certainly cause a lot of racial tensions, and racial tensions eventually lead to police shooting innocent black people (or to police shooting people who aren't innocent but don't need to be shot because of their origins)...
But all of this is past the point! Why would the President of the USA be so reluctant to condemn white supremacists, be they reponsible of anything related to riots or not? That is a red flag by itself.
I find it so bizarre that some people are so mentally susceptible to right-wing propaganda that they believe everything that certain demagogues say about America, despite any evidence shown to the contrary, and without ever even having set foot in America, as well as meeting countless actual American people who tell them things that go against what they believe. Absolutely perplexing.
Is it some sort of smoofness in one's brain that leads to them believing a set of "strong men" over facts? Right-wingers will often say "Jordan Peterson said this" and "Sean Hannity said that", meanwhile I couldn't name a single leftist or even centrist popular figure if you put a gun to my head. I once had someone show me a photoshopped Facebook screenshot as evidence of something. I pointed out that it was obviously photoshopped and asked them to provide me with more evidence. They did; a tweet of Jordan Peterson linking to the same photoshopped screenshot.
I think this is a sort of mental predisposition that totalitarian governments have previously tried to tap into and it seems to be successful. Powerful "men of the people" like Stalin, Hitler, Goebbels, the Kim family, etc. And now in the information era, we see it turned up to 11.
I find it funny how you guys still bother arguing with Ganelon. He'll always overlook the evidence you provide him and just come up with another shit take. Why bother?
Trump supporters don't care that most of Trump's decision has been harmful to the country. They'll focus on 1 or 2 shit takes and try to ride the train as long as they can. The pride is too big to swallow.
Last edited by Ash; October 3rd, 2020 at 11:36 AM.
Spoiler : Forum Mafia :
I actually watched the debate live on C-span.
I will tell you Binden was Flip flopping. All he wanted to do was Look in cameras with 0 Facts. and say a Bunch of crap. Was Trump a bully to Biden hell yes. But Who do you want running the country Some one who stands up for the Facts or some one who cant even get the facts out strait then when asked to stant any say over and over NO YOU NO YOU NO YOU.
All biden did was say No you over and over. I wanted to see what he stood for. All he did was say Trump is evil Trump is bad. NO YOU. over and over. He never told us what he stood for.
I was not a trump supporter or Biden. But I would never Vote Biden for President. And anyone that would well God help us. because we will be screwed hard.
Do Not open this spoiler under any condition!!!!!!!
Spoiler : :
He wasnt. They told him to say that. He was looking at them like really? they then told Trump to say it again so he said fine and said it. I am reading so many news and posts that are just Lies. I watched it live on Cspan. Most of what is cliped and said is BS and made in a diffrent light. Like I said I am Not on a side I like facts to be facts. And the fact is Trump was Overbearing yes. but He wanted the facts and truth to be told and I for one respect that. Biden was dealing in Falsehoods.
Trump was an annoying Townie
Biden was So so Slimy and Scummy. No U
Do Not open this spoiler under any condition!!!!!!!
Spoiler : :
I watched the whole debate, the last half live and the first half that I had missed later. We had Trump screaming about invalidity of the democratic process while Biden was saying the military has been voting like people will vote this year for a long time. We had Trump coming back to his "forest management only" stuff when there is scientific evidence of climate change and when it's rather obvious that it favors wildfires; Biden supporting the other side. Biden wanted to save Obamacare, to make greener plans (makes sense when you see wildfires and hurricanes). I mean, there sure were some "no u", but that's true on both sides, and saying that Trump isn't going full personal attacks pretty often is just not true.
No, you didn't watch the debate live. Either you're trolling, you're straight up lying, or your IQ falls below the average American IQ. Going to assume the latter because of your last sentence, and you must be another person thats intimidated by Trump supporters just like Helz.
I'll break down JUST the first topic of the debate for you, just to prove you wrong.
Supreme Court/Healthcare
Biden claims Trump wants to get rid of the ACA.
Biden claims getting rid of the ACA will strip 20 million people off insurance.
Biden claims Amy Barett is against Roe v Wade.
Biden claims that 100 million Americans would be affected by removal of ACA.
Biden claims that Supreme Court nominee Amy Coney Barett wants to rule the ACA as unconstitutional.
Trump made a claim that Justice Ginsburg said "the president is elected for four years, not three years" (Out of context but I'll give him it)
Trump made a claim that Biden will extinguish 180 million people from private healthcare
Trump claims he travel-banned China.
Trump claims Biden didn't support a ban on China. (Biden never disapproved of the RESTRICTION, he called Trump xenophobic for calling it the China Flu)
Green = True
Red = False
I could make one of these for every topic they discussed, including taxes, global warming, and so on. But there's no point, you need to watch the debate for yourself, instead of acting like you did and not knowing what you're saying. Joe did make a few lies, but extremely less than Trump. Do the fact checking yourself. Seems like Sleepy Joe be less sleepy than most Americans.
Last edited by Ash; October 3rd, 2020 at 03:45 PM.
Spoiler : Forum Mafia :
Not surprising, just an astonishing frame of thought to me. How can one place so much value in the words of specific men? I can't name a person whose word I would trust so unconditionally in every subject; not a politician I support, a scientist I appreciate, or even my own family members.
"don't listen to facts"
i've literally provided you with facts as to the police shootings. multiple sources, in fact.
"listen to strong-men"
jordan peterson is not a strong-man. he isn't even right-wing. hes just a really good psychologist with an avid interest in totalitarianism, morality, politics and religion.
also, jordan peterson has genuinely helped me in a way that nobody else has. his self-help doctrine does wonders for you. i think his view on truthfulness and the act of lying is incredibly important; its made me realize that i actually tell many lies, both by acting and by speaking (i.e. actual lies), although those lies tend to be incredibly elaborate and complicated. lies are in fact so complicated that a statement or a thought you have can be objectively true, and yet still a lie. i think theres a higher-order 'truth' that is subjective, and when you tell a subjective falsehood, that is what lying is.
Last edited by Oberon; October 3rd, 2020 at 06:22 PM.
also @Lysergic , I LITERALLY said that I was specifically talking about UNARMED police shootings in my first post about police shootings going down.
I would like to bring back the specific topic of the thread. Those who agree that Trump is bad, do you think he's bad enough to actually try to turn America fascist, seeing the elements he shares with fascists? Those who don't agree that he's bad, don't you think the resemblance is a little bit frightening?
Yes I did watch it live and no I am not lying or Trolling. I am not intermediated by any trump supporter. I will be voting Trump. I get your points you made. Biden was not giving us his views. Watching his mannerisms every time trump interrupted him It was almost like he was going over script in his head that he rehearsed. I am not going after anyone else views I am expressing what I viewed watching the Debate. Biden was flip flop on alot. Yes Trump kept telling him well you just lost the left.
Do Not open this spoiler under any condition!!!!!!!
Spoiler : :
He can't make America fascist. You need the military to start a fascist state. Trump doesn't even have a stable ideology, which is also of understated importance lol.
I don't think this is indicative of fascism. I think this is just a new, less stable stage of our democracy. The internet allows politicians to bypass the support of (most of) old media, meaning a president can threaten not to honour an election and the supporters will assume it's the level headed response to voter fraud.
In another generation, politicians may be able to accumulate power solely through an online, isolated echo chamber, totally disconnected from any counter-narratives. There won't be fascism because they won't need fascism.
Why the focus on unarmed police shootings?
This is America we're talking about, like half the people are armed. I hate the implication that people who were shot by police while armed somehow deserved to die.
I suppose the cops lighting up this guy was a completely valid reaction because he had a pistol: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBaeZIEkd3Y
"I hate the implication that people who were shot while armed deserved to die"
Except thats not what I was saying. If you were shot by police, and you were armed, the probability that there were legitimate reasons for the cop to shoot you is substantially higher than if you had been unarmed.
"I suppose the cops lighting up this guy"
read above. one dude dying in an illicit manner doesn't say anything about the rest of the cases.
as far as I know, nobody has attempted to break down police shootings of armed suspects and see which were legit, which weren't, if the cop(s) in question got investigated/charged/fired/ etc, but of course if you find something like this i'll be happy to discuss it.
You can also use militias to establish a fascist government, you know. Also, I'm pretty sure the military doesn't exactly hate Trump, although that's an undocumented take on the matter.
You're right about "not needing fascism eventually", though. That'd need its own name. However, we're not there yet.
Maybe, but unless you're suggesting the Proud Boys have the training and resources to seize the White House, I don't think that's a particularly important distinction. The military is not backing Trump's fascist utopia. Adolf Hitler received a First Class Iron Cross in WW1, whereas Trump evaded the Vietnam War Draft. The two are just not comparable.
https://www.militarytimes.com/news/p...ote-for-biden/
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine...-trump/598360/
Some of the second article can be dismissed as gossip. But the parts where generals explicitly name themselves and share their opinions can't really be ignored.
"proved me right with this post"
respecting people who are very capable is not listening to strong-men.
"missed my point"
no, I did not miss your point. your point is that some people are idiots and don't think for themselves. thats not really a very original or even difficult idea to reach. you might try finding more creative ways of insulting people.
That wasn't my point. Also who did I insult?
As strongheaded as you are, @Oberon I do appreciate this thread because this has encouraged me to do the research that I should've already been doing.
I am now much more confident in my position of casting my vote for Biden for the upcoming election. I think that he will be a far better president than Trump because I think that he will listen to his staff and peers.
Enjoy your day, and I hope that you feel better now that you know that the political discourse you hosted has truly influenced someone's opinion.
Edit: In fact I'm going to go fill out and mail my absentee ballot right now.
lmao
so seeing BLM's agenda heavily discredited (with facts!), people repeatedly getting called out on misreading/claiming they made a different point than the one they actually made, guns being shown to SAVE lives more often than they take one, all this has made you decide to vote for biden, who literally disagrees with everything i've said?
that's impressive. LOL
Trump is the only president in the last 25 years who has enacted federal gun regulations...
Yeah, pretty much everything you've said has come down to
> Something bad about trump is slander (double points if its true)
> Something false is true (double points if its about biden)
> Statistics with no citations that get disproven
You haven't even commented on half of the things I've posted because you don't have a response to them. There is no response to them.
It's painfully clear to me that you reached a conclusion before debating and starting scrambling to find things to shore up your argument. I did my research, I watched the debate, I'm making an educated decision about who I believe is the less immature 70 year old. This is my result.
I also want to make it incredibly clear that a significant portion of BLM protestors are in favor of the BLM movement and have not gone into researching the BLM organization. The BLM organization sucks dick and I know Biden will never play ball with them. They were just in the right place at the right time. I support BLM as a movement but I do not support the organization because the organization is antisemetic, incompetent, and incredibly short sighted. I also encourage anyone who doesn't understand what I'm saying here to do their own research on the topic.
Printed off my absentee ballot, filling it out tonight and I'll be mailing it in this week. I'll be ready to vote when it comes around from the comfort of my dormitory. Of course, my vote doesn't count in the president's eyes because it's a mail-in vote.
Completely untrue. If you commit voter fraud, like the president advised people to do (https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...69412759724033) then you're doing the nation a service.
"you haven't even commented on half the things i said because there is no response to them"
half the things you say are just literary claims with absolutely no basis behind them.
"something bad about trump is slander"
MOST of the things people say about politicians, not just trump, are slander.
"it's painfully clear to me"
again, i've literally provided you with sources. multiple, in fact.
"i'm making a decision"
good for you.
"oh em gee, you IGNORED my QUESTIONS and are MISREPRESENTING ME"
FM XVII: Bonney Jewelry (Journalist)
FM XVIII: Kalou (Savage Godfather)
FM XX: Joseph Bertrand (Marshall)
FM XXI: USA (Escort)
FM XV: Whiskey (Whore)
I would say that your purported representation of my view is extremely out of context and I disagree that marketing targets the moderates these days. The new goal is to develop an infrastructure pushing the objectives of their associated political party. Sure the 'moderate' vote swings the election but it is now generally understood how building a culture swings the moderate opinion in the long term.
I was attacking the idea that you have to choose between the lesser of two evils. You underscore this concept demanding a choice by virtue of the bipartisan system while I advocate against the concept of having to choose between two 'lesser evils.'
I disagree with you labeling me into whatever anti or pro Trump whatever. I think you should read a few books on nihilism before trying to use the word. Or maybe at least a dictionary that mentions the word?
This view is in the most basic terms a "false dichotomy." Its forcing the options between 2 options when there is many more. You can be in support of proposed environmental measures, opposed to environmental measures or in favor of pushing a different set of environmental measures. I would push option 3 referencing how measures to protect the environment such as pushing solar energy barely function on a financial level even with government subsidization. Are we a two option decision making society with me being wrong for arguing for a 3rd option? No. Your just forcing the conversation in that direction.
I do not understand why you felt that youtube video had any relevence.
This is actually a point I had a lot of fun with over the last year. I had a conversation with a group of ANTIFA members and when I asked what the definition of fascism was they could not give me a simple answer. They gave me some rambling nonsense about all things immoral to include sexism, racism, and oligarchy. But there was never any answer to what their understanding of fascism was.
I am against fascism but I laugh saying as much considering how little that means to people that actually understand English. The old word for fascism is the new word for communism.
How is the democratic party any different? As I said in the beginning its silly how each side points to the other as if it excuses their position. Anyone who stands on either side pointing at the other is not morally justified by screaming about morality. They are just as sick and wrong as those they push are evil if not more so. If they are capable of accepting and understanding their own thought processes while also pushing that view point they are a different kind of evil in my book.
I agree with you there. If I was a stronger man I would take the time to understand my local politics and but instead I loose myself in 20 projects at once which is a cowards excuse for me not handling whats in front of me.
Im not sure if your qualified to say if I am smart or not but I really do think the higher ground is fighting for a 3rd path. Feel free to push your political views but please be considerate of those who have an opposing view. Even if you disagree with their position the foundation of freedom is built upon the idea that you can express your ideas without discrimination.
I agree. But I also think theres a lot of 'radical' 'extremists' who use the term 'Anti-Fascism' without any understanding of what it means in order to promote violence and hostility. I personally think anyone who wants to point a green lazer at a cops eyes with the intent to blind them should be shot in the head. Would you agree or would you consider an attempt to blind someone ok?
All that said- What would you consider the definition of a 'radical' or an 'extremist'? Where do you draw the line for a society and what measures should individuals be allowed to protect themselves?
Intellectual growth comes from discussions, not arguments. If you are unwilling to change your position and hear the other persons side you are closed minded and wasting your time.
If you can not clearly explain what the other sides reasoning is you can not disagree with their position because you do not understand it.
Intellectual growth comes from discussions, not arguments. If you are unwilling to change your position and hear the other persons side you are closed minded and wasting your time.
If you can not clearly explain what the other sides reasoning is you can not disagree with their position because you do not understand it.
I have a feeling you're gonna get attacked for saying that LOL
Intellectual growth comes from discussions, not arguments. If you are unwilling to change your position and hear the other persons side you are closed minded and wasting your time.
If you can not clearly explain what the other sides reasoning is you can not disagree with their position because you do not understand it.