Führer Trump

[Helz]

My point is that once the election ends either side will claim their loss was not fair. I have never seen ground work laid for that argument in the way it has been for this election. Blame it on either side but it just spells hell for Americans regardless of which way the election goes.

[oops_ur_dead]

My point is that once the election ends either side will claim their loss was not fair.

Except one side has said they will accept the results of the election, and the other has signalled they won't.

You realize that your centrist conviction is also a form of "taking a side" as you like to say. Being steadfast in the opinion that both sides dumb and supporting one particular side is bad is as much of a misguided and toxic attitude as any democrat/republican's conviction in their candidate. I don't know why you take hold your so-called centrism in such condescendingly high regard when it's not unique or even particularly enlightening.

[Helz]

Except one side has said they will accept the results of the election, and the other has signalled they won't.

You realize that your centrist conviction is also a form of "taking a side" as you like to say. Being steadfast in the opinion that both sides dumb and supporting one particular side is bad is as much of a misguided and toxic attitude as any democrat/republican's conviction in their candidate. I don't know why you take hold your so-called centrism in such condescendingly high regard when it's not unique or even particularly enlightening.

Well for 1 I have to live here and deal with the actual results of this election. This equates to a personal sacrifice for my belief system in which I endure consequences for my actions (and inaction)

I also heavily advocate that america functions as a plutocracy in some form of an oligarchy pretty much always as a Corporatocracy. I do believe my position that convoluting the ideas of socialism with subsidized capitalism are original. Maybe I am wrong but if I am I get to suffer the consequences of my being wrong which is much different from sitting on the outside declaring whats right or wrong for my country.

What I do not understand is why the republican and democratic sides both push how the other side is wrong but the idea of both sides being wrong is viewed as so untennable.

Why is it so radical to say both sides are wrong? Why is everyone so hell bent on accepting some 'lesser of two evils?'

[oops_ur_dead]

Well for 1 I have to live here and deal with the actual results of this election. This equates to a personal sacrifice for my belief system in which I endure consequences for my actions (and inaction)

I also heavily advocate that america functions as a plutocracy in some form of an oligarchy pretty much always as a Corporatocracy. I do believe my position that convoluting the ideas of socialism with subsidized capitalism are original. Maybe I am wrong but if I am I get to suffer the consequences of my being wrong which is much different from sitting on the outside declaring whats right or wrong for my country.

What I do not understand is why the republican and democratic sides both push how the other side is wrong but the idea of both sides being wrong is viewed as so untennable.

Why is it so radical to say both sides are wrong? Why is everyone so hell bent on accepting some 'lesser of two evils?'

I am skeptical to this radical centrism because it seems incredibly disingenuous to me. In this thread there are two sides: Trump saying that he may not accept the results of the election, and Biden saying that he will. And yet you continue to insist that, even in this context, both sides bad and centrism is the best. It's bizarre to me and reeks of the idea that you're performing mental gymnastics to maintain the illusion to yourself that you're perfectly in the middle and above all this bickering BS.

Also Trump's victory very strongly influences my home country. I don't have a die hard dedication to the Democrats, I just think that the precedent set by Trump's presidency and the damage it does to the institution of democracy and truthfulness worldwide is damaging. Not to mention material damages to other countries. Just look at COVID; Trump talked shit about masks and spread misinformation so he could swing his balls around. As a result, the pandemic did massive damage in the states. Even if you insist I shouldn't care about a bunch of Americans dying, my home country's proximity to the US means that Americans fucking up the pandemic influences us as well. The first cases in my country came not from Europe or China, but from America. It's absurd to think that the politics of the largest democracy in the world, both economically and population-wise, shouldn't affect or even be the concern of people in other countries.

[Helz]

I am skeptical to this radical centrism because it seems incredibly disingenuous to me. In this thread there are two sides: Trump saying that he may not accept the results of the election, and Biden saying that he will. And yet you continue to insist that, even in this context, both sides bad and centrism is the best. It's bizarre to me and reeks of the idea that you're performing mental gymnastics to maintain the illusion to yourself that you're perfectly in the middle and above all this bickering BS.

Also Trump's victory very strongly influences my home country. I don't have a die hard dedication to the Democrats, I just think that the precedent set by Trump's presidency and the damage it does to the institution of democracy and truthfulness worldwide is damaging. Not to mention material damages to other countries. Just look at COVID; Trump talked shit about masks and spread misinformation so he could swing his balls around. As a result, the pandemic did massive damage in the states. Even if you insist I shouldn't care about a bunch of Americans dying, my home country's proximity to the US means that Americans fucking up the pandemic influences us as well. The first cases in my country came not from Europe or China, but from America. It's absurd to think that the politics of the largest democracy in the world, both economically and population-wise, shouldn't affect or even be the concern of people in other countries.

Sure, Maybe I am wrong. If trump gets re-elected and there is 0 blow back feel free to say 'I told you so' for the following year. What I am seeing in America is a lot of crazy shit from both sides on the mail system. Take my words for whatever but I think whichever side looses will be a very sore looser in this election.

[Norwee]

I also heavily advocate that america functions as a plutocracy in some form of an oligarchy pretty much always as a Corporatocracy. I do believe my position that convoluting the ideas of socialism with subsidized capitalism are original. Maybe I am wrong but if I am I get to suffer the consequences of my being wrong which is much different from sitting on the outside declaring whats right or wrong for my country.

Maybe you should consider the fact that USA has a lot of influence in the world.
Wanna know why people don’t give a shit who wins the election in Denmark vs the USA? Because the USA has a huge army and line of influence that has caused a lot of change in the world.
The invasion of Iraq toppled an entire country, so much for not meddling with other countries affairs eh?
Bay of Pigs saw CIA trained troops openly attempting an coup.
But of course Anerican exceptionalism seems to make you balk at the thought that other countries and people outside of the US care about what kind of country the USA is, and what it will become.
Trump has been a shock to the world and seen the rise of look-alikes such as Borin Johnson in the UK.
This isn’t an domestic issue.

[Helz]

Except one side has said they will accept the results of the election, and the other has signalled they won't.

You realize that your centrist conviction is also a form of "taking a side" as you like to say. Being steadfast in the opinion that both sides dumb and supporting one particular side is bad is as much of a misguided and toxic attitude as any democrat/republican's conviction in their candidate. I don't know why you take hold your so-called centrism in such condescendingly high regard when it's not unique or even particularly enlightening.

Have you ever questioned your die hard dedication to a political party in a country you do not even live in? Consider that you are not unique in your belief. That theres a truckload of others who are also just as dedicated to American politics and pushing the rhetoric you push. Why?

Think about it. How hard you fight for the democratic party. Sure you can call the republican party evil but how much better is the democratic party and how did you get so caught up in this fight your so willing to push against anything that could even be considered republican?

This is the power of the toxic rhetoric produced by political groups.

[Firebringer]

Except one side has said they will accept the results of the election, and the other has signalled they won't.

You realize that your centrist conviction is also a form of "taking a side" as you like to say. Being steadfast in the opinion that both sides dumb and supporting one particular side is bad is as much of a misguided and toxic attitude as any democrat/republican's conviction in their candidate. I don't know why you take hold your so-called centrism in such condescendingly high regard when it's not unique or even particularly enlightening.

Enlightened Centrism is the path forward.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Enlightened Centrism is the path forward.

And who's at the center of the State? The King. Long live Frederick the Great!

What is "enlightened centrism" though?

[Firebringer]

And who's at the center of the State? The King. Long live Frederick the Great!

What is "enlightened centrism" though?

The idea that both sides can make good and bad points, and to understand those points and principles/values and to take those ideas and to craft a position which reflects more nuance

[Exeter350]

The idea that both sides can make good and bad points, and to understand those points and principles/values and to take those ideas and to craft a position which reflects more nuance

Agreed. I think people get too fixated on specific details and fail to evaluate based on the big picture.

What they should do is:
(1) Compare and evaluate official issue-by-issue stance of each political party (what they SAY they will do ; Is their logic sound? ; Do I agree with this stance?)
(2) Track past record to see what issues were actually followed through and what were not (will they do what they say?)
(3) Apply #2 to #1 and re-evaluate considering the likelihood that so-and-so issues will be followed through
(4) Cast vote

But obviously there’ll be too much info involved for a casual politics discussion / heated Internet “debate” (lol how much info can they communicate effectively for big picture discussion?).

In other words, online politics debates are superficial and narrow. They do not capture the overall picture comprehensively. They are good for getting additional viewpoints that people may miss out on their own. However, online discussions are not conclusive on their own.

Ultimately, voters have the responsibility to do their own in-depth research before casting their votes.
(Online / irl discussions do not count as research; I’m talking about actual fact finding, cross referencing, etc.)

Unfortunately, when you have too many lazy / uneducated voters in a country, it is the junk votes that determine the outcome, not the properly-researched votes.

As somebody else on the forums said recently,
“What an intellectual disaster.”

I’m just glad I don’t live in the States lol.