Führer Trump

[Marshmallow Marshall]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1i5IIYfFhI
There's a lot of relatively bad stuff in there (I'll just mention the complete lack of mention of any form of legitimacy given to actually peaceful and righteous protesters to balance the strongly emphasised repression of rioters as an example), but timestamp 11:17 is what frightened me when I listened to his speech, because it looked like a Mussolini speech. Appealing to the nation's greatness and to the people's pride in it to demolish its enemies who want to weaken the great nation and make it "atone for its sins"? Come on. The only strong difference with Mussolini speeches is that he doesn't call to war against other countries, although he does escalate against China pretty strongly over time in his speeches in general.

I was looking for Mussolini speeches to compare them with Trump's, and found this among other things.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNX2V5wXDWg
Heh. Looks like I wasn't the only one lol.

I also found this article, and although it's not completely damning by itself, it's becoming hard to deny that he was inspired by fascist leaders, at the very least in the way he talks to the people...
https://www.businessinsider.com/dona...ed-2015-8?op=1



Pleaaaaase... get him out........

[Oberon]

Trump has indicated he would first look at the results and if it looks like no foul play was involved he will accept it. However, if not... he implied he wouldn’t go down LOL. I don’t blame him one bit. You can’t shortcircuit democracy by stealing votes and expect nothing to happen. If war is the alternative, then maybe there should be a war. There’s been plenty of those in the past, but we all know where rigged elections lead to.
FWIW, trump has said on numerous occasions that if he legitimately loses to Biden, he will just go play golf and we’ll never hear about him again.

[Oberon]

BTW, fascism and naziism cannot be equated, because they are not the same. It’s just a buzzword. If you really wanna call trump something, call him ‘authoritarian’. Kinda doesn’t feel right saying that, does it?

[Oberon]

Thirdly, did you know Trump is the only US President in I believe 38 years not to have started another senseless war?

[Helz]

Pleaaaaase... get him out........

I have a friend thats a big Trump supporter and another who is a hardcore anti-trump ANTIFA member.
I dont really see much of a difference between the two of them. I very strongly disagree with both sides. I hate the rhetoric of hatred they both cast over society and I wish news organizations were held accountable for the destruction they cause.

This election I am not voting. Both party's disgust me on many levels and I hate how their 'lesser of two evils' rhetoric is tearing my country apart. But it even sucks more with each side setting up some story before the election about how if they loose the election was rigged. I was looking forward to this election ending so it would fucking end but right now it looks like whichever side looses there will be some stupid "They cheated lets drag this shit out forever" nonsense. I personally just want this nightmare to be over and could give a fuck less who wins at this point.

It really sucks how every other nation in the world feels like they should have some voice on the subject as well. What is the cost for peace of mind?

[oops_ur_dead]

What are the odds that Trump will ever accept a loss at being fair lmao. If you seriously believe he will think that his loss was fair, you're either a gullible moron or straight up lying.

[oops_ur_dead]

I have a friend thats a big Trump supporter and another who is a hardcore anti-trump ANTIFA member.
I dont really see much of a difference between the two of them. I very strongly disagree with both sides. I hate the rhetoric of hatred they both cast over society and I wish news organizations were held accountable for the destruction they cause.

This election I am not voting. Both party's disgust me on many levels and I hate how their 'lesser of two evils' rhetoric is tearing my country apart. But it even sucks more with each side setting up some story before the election about how if they loose the election was rigged. I was looking forward to this election ending so it would fucking end but right now it looks like whichever side looses there will be some stupid "They cheated lets drag this shit out forever" nonsense. I personally just want this nightmare to be over and could give a fuck less who wins at this point.

It really sucks how every other nation in the world feels like they should have some voice on the subject as well. What is the cost for peace of mind?

Except only one candidate has outright said they will not accept the election results. Hint: it wasn't Biden: https://www.washingtontimes.com/news...ction-results/

Also this post reminds me of this meme lmao:

[Oberon]

yes, because trump wants to kill millions for their racial, ethnic religious etc background. I forgot about all those concentration camps they keep hidden on Mars

[oops_ur_dead]

yes, because trump wants to kill millions for their racial, ethnic religious etc background. I forgot about all those concentration camps they keep hidden on Mars

What the fuck are you talking about lmao

[Helz]

What are the odds that Trump will ever accept a loss at being fair lmao. If you seriously believe he will think that his loss was fair, you're either a gullible moron or straight up lying.

Except only one candidate has outright said they will not accept the election results. Hint: it wasn't Biden: https://www.washingtontimes.com/news...ction-results/

Also this post reminds me of this meme lmao:

I feel like this reaction illustrates one side of the issue very well. Its no better from the trump supporters but it holds every bit as much conviction regardless of if the person is even a voter or lives in america.
Its an attitude of republican vs democrat toxic enough to envelope the rest of the world with a smile.

[Helz]

My point is that once the election ends either side will claim their loss was not fair. I have never seen ground work laid for that argument in the way it has been for this election. Blame it on either side but it just spells hell for Americans regardless of which way the election goes.

[oops_ur_dead]

My point is that once the election ends either side will claim their loss was not fair.

Except one side has said they will accept the results of the election, and the other has signalled they won't.

You realize that your centrist conviction is also a form of "taking a side" as you like to say. Being steadfast in the opinion that both sides dumb and supporting one particular side is bad is as much of a misguided and toxic attitude as any democrat/republican's conviction in their candidate. I don't know why you take hold your so-called centrism in such condescendingly high regard when it's not unique or even particularly enlightening.

[oops_ur_dead]

I have a friend thats a big Trump supporter and another who is a hardcore anti-trump ANTIFA member.
I dont really see much of a difference between the two of them. I very strongly disagree with both sides.

I also have to show the point you inadvertently made here though. Antifa is the extremist fringe people on the American left, like the straight up anarchists and shit. Meanwhile, "big Trump supporters" are basically just normal Republicans. You're equating one side's political extremists to the other side's run-of-the-mill supporters. I don't think that's quite what you were trying to illustrate though.

[Helz]

Except one side has said they will accept the results of the election, and the other has signalled they won't.

You realize that your centrist conviction is also a form of "taking a side" as you like to say. Being steadfast in the opinion that both sides dumb and supporting one particular side is bad is as much of a misguided and toxic attitude as any democrat/republican's conviction in their candidate. I don't know why you take hold your so-called centrism in such condescendingly high regard when it's not unique or even particularly enlightening.

Well for 1 I have to live here and deal with the actual results of this election. This equates to a personal sacrifice for my belief system in which I endure consequences for my actions (and inaction)

I also heavily advocate that america functions as a plutocracy in some form of an oligarchy pretty much always as a Corporatocracy. I do believe my position that convoluting the ideas of socialism with subsidized capitalism are original. Maybe I am wrong but if I am I get to suffer the consequences of my being wrong which is much different from sitting on the outside declaring whats right or wrong for my country.

What I do not understand is why the republican and democratic sides both push how the other side is wrong but the idea of both sides being wrong is viewed as so untennable.

Why is it so radical to say both sides are wrong? Why is everyone so hell bent on accepting some 'lesser of two evils?'

[Helz]

Except one side has said they will accept the results of the election, and the other has signalled they won't.

You realize that your centrist conviction is also a form of "taking a side" as you like to say. Being steadfast in the opinion that both sides dumb and supporting one particular side is bad is as much of a misguided and toxic attitude as any democrat/republican's conviction in their candidate. I don't know why you take hold your so-called centrism in such condescendingly high regard when it's not unique or even particularly enlightening.

Have you ever questioned your die hard dedication to a political party in a country you do not even live in? Consider that you are not unique in your belief. That theres a truckload of others who are also just as dedicated to American politics and pushing the rhetoric you push. Why?

Think about it. How hard you fight for the democratic party. Sure you can call the republican party evil but how much better is the democratic party and how did you get so caught up in this fight your so willing to push against anything that could even be considered republican?

This is the power of the toxic rhetoric produced by political groups.

[Oberon]

If we’re talking about the Republican Party as a whole, I think the party is quite horrible as well (although probably not as corrupt as the democrats are... yet). Trump himself, while not ideal, is, in my opinion, as a president, the best man for the job if you compare him with every president since ~1984-1990.

He says lots of dumb things sometimes, and doesn’t always act the way he should, and IMO he trolls a bit too much, more than the President of the most powerful country in the world should. He’s also a bit narcissistic (which in some sense is good; the dude has been attacked and defamed every day since 2016 just for being, I think a normal person would’ve just collapsed, lol). But, if you look at what he does, he:
a) Sealed a peace deal in the Middle East
b) Cut taxes, just like he said he would
c) Put pressure on China
d) Did not start an additional stupid war
I’d say those things are pretty damn good. One thing I like about him is paradoxically his loud mouth. He’s not afraid to call out the media and politicians for what they really are or are doing, which almost everyone else who is a politician seems to be reluctant on doing. Nobody has any balls anymore. That’s also why I love the fact that he banned CRT training in the government.

If I had to choose between a non-Trump Republican and a Democrat... fuck, I do not know what I’d do. Tough choice. Pick your poison. Probably would still be voting Republican since the so-called third parties are actually even worse than the two main ones (which is impressive).

[Oberon]

FWIW, I also do not understand the hatred oops has for Republicans. While I strongly dislike the Democratic Party, I don’t hate people who vote Democrat and I don’t hate people who are not conservative or who are socialists. I only hate radical leftism, which is currently pushing absurd ideologies centered around the issue of ethnic/sexual/gender/religious/etc identity. It’s quite ironic that they’re the ones doing it...

[yzb25]

It really sucks how every other nation in the world feels like they should have some voice on the subject as well. What is the cost for peace of mind?

I can't imagine what it's like having to put up with everyone else shit-talk your country constantly these days but, depending on where we live and who we are, this election is going to impact our lives more than two elections in our own countries combined. Me and my dad were up all night after Qassam Soleimani was assassinated drinking coffee, watching news and shitting ourselves. We thought my stepmum could get caught in Syria.2 when Iran started firing missiles on American bases. The whole family's been arguing about Trump's reelection chances since. That doesn't even get into how Trump could impact the UK post-brexit. As the old saying goes, when America sneezes the world catches a cold. Go easy on us T_T

[oops_ur_dead]

Well for 1 I have to live here and deal with the actual results of this election. This equates to a personal sacrifice for my belief system in which I endure consequences for my actions (and inaction)

I also heavily advocate that america functions as a plutocracy in some form of an oligarchy pretty much always as a Corporatocracy. I do believe my position that convoluting the ideas of socialism with subsidized capitalism are original. Maybe I am wrong but if I am I get to suffer the consequences of my being wrong which is much different from sitting on the outside declaring whats right or wrong for my country.

What I do not understand is why the republican and democratic sides both push how the other side is wrong but the idea of both sides being wrong is viewed as so untennable.

Why is it so radical to say both sides are wrong? Why is everyone so hell bent on accepting some 'lesser of two evils?'

I am skeptical to this radical centrism because it seems incredibly disingenuous to me. In this thread there are two sides: Trump saying that he may not accept the results of the election, and Biden saying that he will. And yet you continue to insist that, even in this context, both sides bad and centrism is the best. It's bizarre to me and reeks of the idea that you're performing mental gymnastics to maintain the illusion to yourself that you're perfectly in the middle and above all this bickering BS.

Also Trump's victory very strongly influences my home country. I don't have a die hard dedication to the Democrats, I just think that the precedent set by Trump's presidency and the damage it does to the institution of democracy and truthfulness worldwide is damaging. Not to mention material damages to other countries. Just look at COVID; Trump talked shit about masks and spread misinformation so he could swing his balls around. As a result, the pandemic did massive damage in the states. Even if you insist I shouldn't care about a bunch of Americans dying, my home country's proximity to the US means that Americans fucking up the pandemic influences us as well. The first cases in my country came not from Europe or China, but from America. It's absurd to think that the politics of the largest democracy in the world, both economically and population-wise, shouldn't affect or even be the concern of people in other countries.

[Helz]

I can't imagine what it's like having to put up with everyone else shit-talk your country constantly these days but, depending on where we live and who we are, this election is going to impact our lives more than two elections in our own countries combined. Me and my dad were up all night after Qassam Soleimani was assassinated drinking coffee, watching news and shitting ourselves. We thought my stepmum could get caught in Syria.2 when Iran started firing missiles on American bases. The whole family's been arguing about Trump's reelection chances since. That doesn't even get into how Trump could impact the UK post-brexit. As the old saying goes, when America sneezes the world catches a cold. Go easy on us T_T

I hear you. Whats sad is small countries around the world are impacted much more by US elections that US citizens are. Its just exhausting to hear so many people outside of America to judge whats going on in America from social media.

[Helz]

I am skeptical to this radical centrism because it seems incredibly disingenuous to me. In this thread there are two sides: Trump saying that he may not accept the results of the election, and Biden saying that he will. And yet you continue to insist that, even in this context, both sides bad and centrism is the best. It's bizarre to me and reeks of the idea that you're performing mental gymnastics to maintain the illusion to yourself that you're perfectly in the middle and above all this bickering BS.

Also Trump's victory very strongly influences my home country. I don't have a die hard dedication to the Democrats, I just think that the precedent set by Trump's presidency and the damage it does to the institution of democracy and truthfulness worldwide is damaging. Not to mention material damages to other countries. Just look at COVID; Trump talked shit about masks and spread misinformation so he could swing his balls around. As a result, the pandemic did massive damage in the states. Even if you insist I shouldn't care about a bunch of Americans dying, my home country's proximity to the US means that Americans fucking up the pandemic influences us as well. The first cases in my country came not from Europe or China, but from America. It's absurd to think that the politics of the largest democracy in the world, both economically and population-wise, shouldn't affect or even be the concern of people in other countries.

Sure, Maybe I am wrong. If trump gets re-elected and there is 0 blow back feel free to say 'I told you so' for the following year. What I am seeing in America is a lot of crazy shit from both sides on the mail system. Take my words for whatever but I think whichever side looses will be a very sore looser in this election.

[Voss]

If we’re talking about the Republican Party as a whole, I think the party is quite horrible as well (although probably not as corrupt as the democrats are... yet). Trump himself, while not ideal, is, in my opinion, as a president, the best man for the job if you compare him with every president since ~1984-1990.

He says lots of dumb things sometimes, and doesn’t always act the way he should, and IMO he trolls a bit too much, more than the President of the most powerful country in the world should. He’s also a bit narcissistic (which in some sense is good; the dude has been attacked and defamed every day since 2016 just for being, I think a normal person would’ve just collapsed, lol). But, if you look at what he does, he:
a) Sealed a peace deal in the Middle East
b) Cut taxes, just like he said he would
c) Put pressure on China
d) Did not start an additional stupid war
I’d say those things are pretty damn good. One thing I like about him is paradoxically his loud mouth. He’s not afraid to call out the media and politicians for what they really are or are doing, which almost everyone else who is a politician seems to be reluctant on doing. Nobody has any balls anymore. That’s also why I love the fact that he banned CRT training in the government.

If I had to choose between a non-Trump Republican and a Democrat... fuck, I do not know what I’d do. Tough choice. Pick your poison. Probably would still be voting Republican since the so-called third parties are actually even worse than the two main ones (which is impressive).

a) Cutting taxes for his rich friends during an economic upswing isn't isn't an accomplishment.
b) He never released his tax returns, just like he said he would.
c) He embraces support from white nationalists.
d) He incited violence at his rallies and at protests.
e) His goons used tear gas on American citizens so that Trump could get a photo op with the Bible.
f) He expresses his support for conspiracy theorist QAnon.

Domestically, this guy's a shit show and a threat to the democratic psyche of the American people.

[Voss]

I don't really have the time today to play keyboard warrior today though. Maybe later.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Trump has indicated he would first look at the results and if it looks like no foul play was involved he will accept it. However, if not... he implied he wouldn’t go down LOL. I don’t blame him one bit. You can’t shortcircuit democracy by stealing votes and expect nothing to happen. If war is the alternative, then maybe there should be a war. There’s been plenty of those in the past, but we all know where rigged elections lead to.
FWIW, trump has said on numerous occasions that if he legitimately loses to Biden, he will just go play golf and we’ll never hear about him again.

Yes, but it is terribly obvious that he will contest the election's result... he has been preparing the way for that for MONTHS with his "this election will be the biggest fraud in American history" and similar.

BTW, fascism and naziism cannot be equated, because they are not the same. It’s just a buzzword. If you really wanna call trump something, call him ‘authoritarian’. Kinda doesn’t feel right saying that, does it?

No no, I'm specifically calling him fascist.
..because it looked like a Mussolini speech. Appealing to the nation's greatness and to the people's pride in it to demolish its enemies who want to weaken the great nation and make it "atone for its sins"? Come on. The only strong difference with Mussolini speeches is that he doesn't call to war against other countries, although he does escalate against China pretty strongly over time in his speeches in general.
I didn't call him a nazi, only a fascist. There's indeed a difference :P.

~~

Helz, the reason why people in other countries feel like they have something to say about it (or at least my reason) is because the US are still the leader of the Western bloc. If that country is screwed because it descends into a civil war or into authoritarianism, then we can all say hello to other, non-democratic powers such as China and Russia (sorry Russia, you're not democratic lol).
As for both sides saying their loss wasn't fair if they lose, that is true, but the difference between them is that while Biden will just be angry and call Trump out for it and then call it a day, Trump could very well try to cling to power: he's preparing the way for that possibility.

And if your point is "why not be at peace in your own country and leave us be", which is basically "it's not really your business", well... sorry, but the first democratic power worldwide remaining a strong democratic power is the business of pretty much everyone when it comes to geopolitics.

[BananaCucho]

Fuck Trump

[Sylvanas]

As the old saying goes, when America sneezes the world catches a cold.

The new saying states that America didn't sneeze because the cold virus is a liberal hoax intended to prevent Trump to steal money from his charities (but he did anyway).

[Firebringer]

Except one side has said they will accept the results of the election, and the other has signalled they won't.

You realize that your centrist conviction is also a form of "taking a side" as you like to say. Being steadfast in the opinion that both sides dumb and supporting one particular side is bad is as much of a misguided and toxic attitude as any democrat/republican's conviction in their candidate. I don't know why you take hold your so-called centrism in such condescendingly high regard when it's not unique or even particularly enlightening.

Enlightened Centrism is the path forward.

[Firebringer]

Fuck Trump

Thats Stormy Daniels job

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Enlightened Centrism is the path forward.

And who's at the center of the State? The King. Long live Frederick the Great!

What is "enlightened centrism" though?

[Firebringer]

And who's at the center of the State? The King. Long live Frederick the Great!

What is "enlightened centrism" though?

The idea that both sides can make good and bad points, and to understand those points and principles/values and to take those ideas and to craft a position which reflects more nuance

[Exeter350]

The idea that both sides can make good and bad points, and to understand those points and principles/values and to take those ideas and to craft a position which reflects more nuance

Agreed. I think people get too fixated on specific details and fail to evaluate based on the big picture.

What they should do is:
(1) Compare and evaluate official issue-by-issue stance of each political party (what they SAY they will do ; Is their logic sound? ; Do I agree with this stance?)
(2) Track past record to see what issues were actually followed through and what were not (will they do what they say?)
(3) Apply #2 to #1 and re-evaluate considering the likelihood that so-and-so issues will be followed through
(4) Cast vote

But obviously there’ll be too much info involved for a casual politics discussion / heated Internet “debate” (lol how much info can they communicate effectively for big picture discussion?).

In other words, online politics debates are superficial and narrow. They do not capture the overall picture comprehensively. They are good for getting additional viewpoints that people may miss out on their own. However, online discussions are not conclusive on their own.

Ultimately, voters have the responsibility to do their own in-depth research before casting their votes.
(Online / irl discussions do not count as research; I’m talking about actual fact finding, cross referencing, etc.)

Unfortunately, when you have too many lazy / uneducated voters in a country, it is the junk votes that determine the outcome, not the properly-researched votes.

As somebody else on the forums said recently,
“What an intellectual disaster.”

I’m just glad I don’t live in the States lol.

[Ash]

Have you ever questioned your die hard dedication to a political party in a country you do not even live in? Consider that you are not unique in your belief. That theres a truckload of others who are also just as dedicated to American politics and pushing the rhetoric you push. Why?

Think about it. How hard you fight for the democratic party. Sure you can call the republican party evil but how much better is the democratic party and how did you get so caught up in this fight your so willing to push against anything that could even be considered republican?

Let's start here, you immediately assume that every person that votes for their party is a "die-hard" fanboy. Wrong on so many levels. Because you see people like Ganelon (not even American) on these forums, doesn't mean that every person that votes for Trump will be a die-hard fanboy. In modern USA, neither Trump or Biden are trying to convince the far-right or far-left to vote for them, they are both aiming for centrist/undecided voters.

I also heavily advocate that america functions as a plutocracy in some form of an oligarchy pretty much always as a Corporatocracy. I do believe my position that convoluting the ideas of socialism with subsidized capitalism are original. Maybe I am wrong but if I am I get to suffer the consequences of my being wrong which is much different from sitting on the outside declaring whats right or wrong for my country.

What I do not understand is why the republican and democratic sides both push how the other side is wrong but the idea of both sides being wrong is viewed as so untennable.

Why is it so radical to say both sides are wrong? Why is everyone so hell bent on accepting some 'lesser of two evils?'

Your shitty nihilistic take on politics is so cringe, it's like you were just born yesterday and have no idea how politics work. BOTH sides will push on how the other side is wrong, because we are in a TWO-PARTY SYSTEM. It's their jobs to shit smear each other in hopes of swaying undecided voters to vote, and in hopes of non-voter idiots like you to show up to a poll booth and vote.

Both sides are going to be wrong, because again we are in a two-party system. Red or blue, there is no orange, no purple, no teal. Take global warming for example. Are you for or against global warming? I shouldn't even have to go in-depth about global warming because it's clear that Trump rolled back every Obama-era regulation in terms of slowing down global warming. There is no "maybe", it's just a clear yes or no. You're not smarter by not voting, you're just a clear-cut idiot.

Your ideas aren't original. Just seems like you're a Bernie-bro that's in denial and doesn't want to vote for anyone else. Funny thing is that even Bernie wants Biden to win because he realizes how shitty and corrupt Trump is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MO1o66Ti2bA

I have a friend thats a big Trump supporter and another who is a hardcore anti-trump ANTIFA member.
I dont really see much of a difference between the two of them. I very strongly disagree with both sides. I hate the rhetoric of hatred they both cast over society and I wish news organizations were held accountable for the destruction they cause.

This election I am not voting. Both party's disgust me on many levels and I hate how their 'lesser of two evils' rhetoric is tearing my country apart. But it even sucks more with each side setting up some story before the election about how if they loose the election was rigged. I was looking forward to this election ending so it would fucking end but right now it looks like whichever side looses there will be some stupid "They cheated lets drag this shit out forever" nonsense. I personally just want this nightmare to be over and could give a fuck less who wins at this point.

It really sucks how every other nation in the world feels like they should have some voice on the subject as well. What is the cost for peace of mind?

You realize that antifa is short for anti-fascism, correct? Are you FOR fascism, or are you AGAINST fascism? Very simple take. Again, you can't disagree with both sides because it's a clear-cut FOR or AGAINST answer.

The entirety of the Republican party ever since Trump's campaign took off, is to just run smear campaigns against the opposing party. To divide the country, shit-stir and cause race problems so that they can later point the finger at people that fight against systemic racism. Continue systemic racism, cut taxes for themselves, and continue reaping the farm of unfortunate individuals.

You're really not smart and you really don't have any higher ground by saying "I'm not gonna vote haha I'm smart", because you're literally falling into what Republicans want you to do LOL. It was quite clear on the debate who actually cared about the well-being of America when Biden actually looked at the camera and Trump only cared about interrupting his valid arguments.

I also have to show the point you inadvertently made here though. Antifa is the extremist fringe people on the American left, like the straight up anarchists and shit.

Anti-fascism isn't extremist, and isn't radical. It's funny how everything that Trump disagrees with is immediately labeled as radical and extremist. Trump trying to weaponize the word "radical" on the debate floor was quite funny.

Helz, if you were truly centrist, you would be stating good policies on both sides, instead of being the embodiment of pure nihilism.

[Stealthbomber16]

Like, let's be clear here. Both of these guys are dumbass idiots. They both had a handful of good moments during that debate but it was mostly garbage. They literally stopped mid-debate and started arguing about who interrupted the other person more.

If you don't vote, and you are upset at the result of the election or you are mad at a policy being passed in the next 4 years, you are at fault. You have a chance to make your voice heard right now instead of just being tilted on online forums, and you're choosing not to take it. That's irresponsible.

I will not be voting red in this election because I don't trust this country going into an economic recession from a man who has declared bankruptcy six times. I'm undecided on whether or not I want to vote for Emperor Joe Palpatine or third party. But I have a chance to make my voice count and I'm going to take it.

[BananaCucho]

Like, let's be clear here. Both of these guys are dumbass idiots. They both had a handful of good moments during that debate but it was mostly garbage. They literally stopped mid-debate and started arguing about who interrupted the other person more.

If you don't vote, and you are upset at the result of the election or you are mad at a policy being passed in the next 4 years, you are at fault. You have a chance to make your voice heard right now instead of just being tilted on online forums, and you're choosing not to take it. That's irresponsible.

I will not be voting red in this election because I don't trust this country going into an economic recession from a man who has declared bankruptcy six times. I'm undecided on whether or not I want to vote for Emperor Joe Palpatine or third party. But I have a chance to make my voice count and I'm going to take it.

stealth can vote now

[theoneceko]

Like, let's be clear here. Both of these guys are dumbass idiots. They both had a handful of good moments during that debate but it was mostly garbage. They literally stopped mid-debate and started arguing about who interrupted the other person more.

If you don't vote, and you are upset at the result of the election or you are mad at a policy being passed in the next 4 years, you are at fault. You have a chance to make your voice heard right now instead of just being tilted on online forums, and you're choosing not to take it. That's irresponsible.

I will not be voting red in this election because I don't trust this country going into an economic recession from a man who has declared bankruptcy six times. I'm undecided on whether or not I want to vote for Emperor Joe Palpatine or third party. But I have a chance to make my voice count and I'm going to take it.

TRUMP 2020!!!

MADE THAT TEXT RED AND BLOLDAND UNDDEERLING SO U ALL CAN GET MAD. ALSO MAKING THIS TEXT WHITE AND BLUE TO SHOW MY PATRIOTISM AND NATIONALISM SO PPL GET EVEN MORE MAD!!!

key words are: GETTING PEOPLE MAD

!!!

[theoneceko]

TRUMP 2020!!!

MADE THAT TEXT RED SO U ALL CAN GET MAD. ALSO MAKING THIS TEXT WHITE AND BLUE TO SHOW MY PATRIOTISM AND NATIONALISM SO PPL GET EVEN MORE MAD!!!

key words are: GETTING PEOPLE MAD

!!!

PLS. NO ONE REPLY TO THIS AND IGNORE IT LIKE THE TROLL POST IT IS. I SPAM THIS IN SC2MAF GENERAL/ARCADE CHAT TO GET R E A C C T I O N S, BUT I EXPECT MORE FROM YOU ALL!!!

[Oberon]

both sides suck, its just that one 'side' sucks less.
in that case, its just the president who sucks less.
i have no idea whats gonna happen to america when trump leaves office, because you have to realize trump was the best candidate (still is).
the two parties are absolutely horrendous, and the so-called 'third-parties' are even worse (which is an achievement).
you have the libertarian party which is a club of completely naive/downright malevolent/power-hungry idiots, with a minority of normal people who are just pro-small government.
the libertarian party is mostly ancap. they literally want to disestablish the state.
if i have to choose between them and the democrats, i honestly don't know who i'd choose.
idk what the libertarians would do if elected to power, but if they did exactly what they stated they would, i think a catastrophe bigger than all the communist purges would occur.
i mean, capitalism is significantly more efficient than communism. many more would die.
thats not to speak of the absurd corruption that their government system (if you can call it that) would allow.

they want to make taxes OPTIONAL.
how much more smoofer-brained can you get? imagine just buying out the police force LMFAO

[BananaCucho]

Imagine seriously thinking that Trump sucks less

[Norwee]

I also heavily advocate that america functions as a plutocracy in some form of an oligarchy pretty much always as a Corporatocracy. I do believe my position that convoluting the ideas of socialism with subsidized capitalism are original. Maybe I am wrong but if I am I get to suffer the consequences of my being wrong which is much different from sitting on the outside declaring whats right or wrong for my country.

Maybe you should consider the fact that USA has a lot of influence in the world.
Wanna know why people don’t give a shit who wins the election in Denmark vs the USA? Because the USA has a huge army and line of influence that has caused a lot of change in the world.
The invasion of Iraq toppled an entire country, so much for not meddling with other countries affairs eh?
Bay of Pigs saw CIA trained troops openly attempting an coup.
But of course Anerican exceptionalism seems to make you balk at the thought that other countries and people outside of the US care about what kind of country the USA is, and what it will become.
Trump has been a shock to the world and seen the rise of look-alikes such as Borin Johnson in the UK.
This isn’t an domestic issue.

[Oberon]

i think taking the average trump supporter to indicate what a candidate is like is imo pretty weird. the average person is stupid.
and, imo just like oops said, you're comparing the average trump supporter to the average antifa supporter. one is part of a minority group on the far left, the other is a relatively normal person.
it just so happens that the average normal person is dumb, HOWEVER, you're missing the fact that 'most' people (and yes I know trump 'lost' the popular vote) voted for Trump in 2016. i dont like appeals to majority but honestly, if trump were as bad as people said, 48% of the population wouldn't have voted for him.

i mean when you have people voting for a 'pedophile' and whatever else he got called, you gotta realize some of the bullshit people said about him (most of it, in fact) was either wrong or exaggerated.

[Oberon]

Boris Johnson isn't Trump though
I respect Boris Johnson but the Conservative Party (including Johnson) is kind of... left wing, especially when you compare it to the republican party.
I think Nigel Farage is a much better comparison, because whilst they are not the same (and I think Nigel Farage is superior to Trump, at least as a person), they are at least fairly similar. Except, idk if Nigel Farage has the strength to go through 4-8 years of people constantly slandering in the most absurd ways possible. I know Trump does.

[BananaCucho]

i think taking the average trump supporter to indicate what a candidate is like is imo pretty weird. the average person is stupid.
and, imo just like oops said, you're comparing the average trump supporter to the average antifa supporter. one is part of a minority group on the far left, the other is a relatively normal person.
it just so happens that the average normal person is dumb, HOWEVER, you're missing the fact that 'most' people (and yes I know trump 'lost' the popular vote) voted for Trump in 2016. i dont like appeals to majority but honestly, if trump were as bad as people said, 48% of the population wouldn't have voted for him.

i mean when you have people voting for a 'pedophile' and whatever else he got called, you gotta realize some of the bullshit people said about him (most of it, in fact) was either wrong or exaggerated.

Your logic here is very bad. First of all, 48% of the population didn't vote for Trump. 45% of voters voted for Trump. Roughly 43% of eligible voters did not even vote. An estimated 232 million Americans were eligible to vote in 2016, and just under 63 million voted for Trump. So roughly 27% of the population. Just over a quarter.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...ote-this-year/

Secondly, you are completely ignoring the nature of politics, and the fact that many votes FOR Trump were actually votes AGAINST Clinton, and vice versa. You can't just say "oh look, he got 45% of the vote and therefore things said about him must be bullshit cause otherwise people wouldn't vote for him". What on earth is that. I know plenty of conservatives that did not like Trump and voted for him solely because they were scared that Hilary was "of the devil and will destroy America"

[Oberon]

yes, and an extra 3% not voting for him means he must be horrible. i forgot thats how percentages work.
keeping the percentages the same, 55% of those who voted voted for clinton. i dont really see the difference, if 50% of people voted, the number is still relatively significant.

me too! i am also one of those conservatives, i too would've seen my vote for trump as more of a vote against clinton because trump was... 1) painted by the media, 2) a media whore who didn't seem like he knew what he was doing, 3) just another TV star who wanted and loved publicity.

that being said, trump's impressed me rather favorably. he's done well as president (IMO), and in any event better than I thought he would (even though he continues to say stupid things on a semi-regular basis).

[BananaCucho]

yes, and an extra 3% not voting for him means he must be horrible. i forgot thats how percentages work.
keeping the percentages the same, 55% of those who voted voted for clinton. i dont really see the difference, if 50% of people voted, the number is still relatively significant.

me too! i am also one of those conservatives, i too would've seen my vote for trump as more of a vote against clinton because trump was... 1) painted by the media, 2) a media whore who didn't seem like he knew what he was doing, 3) just another TV star who wanted and loved publicity.

that being said, trump's impressed me rather favorably. he's done well as president (IMO), and in any event better than I thought he would (even though he continues to say stupid things on a semi-regular basis).

wtf are you even arguing

[yzb25]

On a slightly more on-topic note, I remember hearing the upper ranks of the US military aren't so keen on Trump, and probably wouldn't back him in a coup. So, I think realistically the worst case scenario is the republicans take it to the courts and drag out the transition of power, in the case of a democrat win.

[yzb25]

What's more important is the precedent this sets. Trump has changed our understanding of political campaigns forever, and I fear Trump will be followed by more clever, more effective Trumps, both at home and abroad.

[yzb25]

Let's start here, you immediately assume that every person that votes for their party is a "die-hard" fanboy. Wrong on so many levels. Because you see people like Ganelon (not even American) on these forums, doesn't mean that every person that votes for Trump will be a die-hard fanboy. In modern USA, neither Trump or Biden are trying to convince the far-right or far-left to vote for them, they are both aiming for centrist/undecided voters.



Your shitty nihilistic take on politics is so cringe, it's like you were just born yesterday and have no idea how politics work. BOTH sides will push on how the other side is wrong, because we are in a TWO-PARTY SYSTEM. It's their jobs to shit smear each other in hopes of swaying undecided voters to vote, and in hopes of non-voter idiots like you to show up to a poll booth and vote.

Both sides are going to be wrong, because again we are in a two-party system. Red or blue, there is no orange, no purple, no teal. Take global warming for example. Are you for or against global warming? I shouldn't even have to go in-depth about global warming because it's clear that Trump rolled back every Obama-era regulation in terms of slowing down global warming. There is no "maybe", it's just a clear yes or no. You're not smarter by not voting, you're just a clear-cut idiot.

Your ideas aren't original. Just seems like you're a Bernie-bro that's in denial and doesn't want to vote for anyone else. Funny thing is that even Bernie wants Biden to win because he realizes how shitty and corrupt Trump is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MO1o66Ti2bA




You realize that antifa is short for anti-fascism, correct? Are you FOR fascism, or are you AGAINST fascism? Very simple take. Again, you can't disagree with both sides because it's a clear-cut FOR or AGAINST answer.

The entirety of the Republican party ever since Trump's campaign took off, is to just run smear campaigns against the opposing party. To divide the country, shit-stir and cause race problems so that they can later point the finger at people that fight against systemic racism. Continue systemic racism, cut taxes for themselves, and continue reaping the farm of unfortunate individuals.

You're really not smart and you really don't have any higher ground by saying "I'm not gonna vote haha I'm smart", because you're literally falling into what Republicans want you to do LOL. It was quite clear on the debate who actually cared about the well-being of America when Biden actually looked at the camera and Trump only cared about interrupting his valid arguments.



Anti-fascism isn't extremist, and isn't radical. It's funny how everything that Trump disagrees with is immediately labeled as radical and extremist. Trump trying to weaponize the word "radical" on the debate floor was quite funny.

Helz, if you were truly centrist, you would be stating good policies on both sides, instead of being the embodiment of pure nihilism.

This is a little disingenuous. The philosophy of Antifa is to prevent the rise of fascism, by any means necessary. They support the use of threats, arm-twisting and even physical violence in service of this goal. They define fascists performatively, meaning they will sometimes target people who deny being fascists. This means they reject the notion of a state monopoly on violence, even if that state is legitimate, which has been in place in all societies for a long ass time. That's pretty bloody radical.

That said, they are a decentralised movement and different subgroups have varying approaches. Meaning some subgroups are more level headed, and some are more thick headed.

P;edit I found this to be a really informative video, even if you disagree with the guy's ideology. (He's a Marxist who endorses Antifa) https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bgwS_FMZ3nQ

[Mugy]

Just to pick on something that I see again and again in these discussions.

Trump is not tough on China; China LOVES Trump. Why? Because Trump is removing US influence from the south China region, now China can go back to the imperial China days of influencing Vietnam, Thailand, Malaysia, and the lot! Next stop Japan, Korea, Indonesia, Phillipines, and Australia!

Do you seriously think the fucking trade war is actually bad for China?

The TPPA would've cemented dependency between the pacific and the US. Sure the US would've lost money, but the US gets to tie the wealth of countless pacific nations to the US.

[yzb25]

This is a little disingenuous. The philosophy of Antifa is to prevent the rise of fascism, by any means necessary. They support the use of threats, arm-twisting and even physical violence in service of this goal. They define fascists performatively, meaning they will sometimes target people who deny being fascists. This means they reject the notion of a state monopoly on violence, even if that state is legitimate, which has been in place in all societies for a long ass time. That's pretty bloody radical.

That said, they are a decentralised movement and different subgroups have varying approaches. Meaning some subgroups are more level headed, and some are more thick headed.

P;edit I found this to be a really informative video, even if you disagree with the guy's ideology. (He's a Marxist who endorses Antifa) https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bgwS_FMZ3nQ

Sorry, disingenuous isn't the right word. That implies I think you're scheming something lol. I just meant your attitude is a bit like calling people who oppose the pro-life movement anti-life.

I'll stop spamming now.

[Stealthbomber16]

i think taking the average trump supporter to indicate what a candidate is like is imo pretty weird. the average person is stupid.
and, imo just like oops said, you're comparing the average trump supporter to the average antifa supporter. one is part of a minority group on the far left, the other is a relatively normal person.

This is an awful comparison. It's like comparing a bicycle to a ferraria. The obvious issue here is that not every biden supporter is an antifa supporter. That would be like saying every trump supporter is a member of the proud boys or another white supremacy group.

Most people are "relatively normal" people. Otherwise there wouldn't be normal. Even IF antifa were to be considered a "minority group" (which does not follow what Trump's FBI director has stated) brushing every biden supporter as "antifa" is disregarding a massive portion of his voting class.

it just so happens that the average normal person is dumb, HOWEVER, you're missing the fact that 'most' people (and yes I know trump 'lost' the popular vote) voted for Trump in 2016. i dont like appeals to majority but honestly, if trump were as bad as people said, 48% of the population wouldn't have voted for him.

Aside from the fact that most people did NOT vote for trump according to the popular vote and there shouldn't have been any quotes around 'most' (not arguing the verdict here by the way, if popular vote were how the election were decided it would not give rural counties like where i currently reside a strong voice in the vote)...

Trump in the media was probably overexaggerated in 2016. I can't speak extremely much on that because I didn't follow the 2016 election because this is the first year I can vote. The amount of people genuinely crushed or depressed that hillary didn't win 2016 is honestly sad. It's the president, yeah, but a local mayor or city council election will probably effect your life way more. I just want a dude who won't send me to war and won't nuke the economy. There were definitely extremists on both sides though, and people way too happy that Trump won, or people who were way too happy that Hillary lost. Last election there was a debate about Obama and I recall @Orpz posting a car with a bumper sticker with a noose that said "hang in there obama". Shit's wild on all sides.

What I CAN say is that right now Trump has committed a long ass list of things that I not only morally or ethically disagree with, but he has also demonstrated an extreme disregard for his council and employees opinions. You can reference the debate where he dissed antifa as a group and then shot down the moderator when the moderator told him that the FBI director that HE elected said something else. I also do not want a president who advises white supremacy groups to "be ready". Any kind of supremacy group is toxic and I don't want a president who supports any of them, much less commands them like some kind of fucking militia.

i mean when you have people voting for a 'pedophile' and whatever else he got called, you gotta realize some of the bullshit people said about him (most of it, in fact) was either wrong or exaggerated.

This point is moot because both of the candidates are pedophiles and/or sex offenders who shouldn't be in office in the first place.

yes, and an extra 3% not voting for him means he must be horrible. i forgot thats how percentages work.
keeping the percentages the same, 55% of those who voted voted for clinton. i dont really see the difference, if 50% of people voted, the number is still relatively significant.

No, the issue here is that 43% of voters didn't vote. We're missing a lot of data here. You're focusing on the wrong part of the post.

Only roughly 1/4th of the American population actually voted for Trump last election.

me too! i am also one of those conservatives, i too would've seen my vote for trump as more of a vote against clinton because trump was... 1) painted by the media, 2) a media whore who didn't seem like he knew what he was doing, 3) just another TV star who wanted and loved publicity.

I will respectfully disagree with your result here. Your process and eval of trump makes sense, and I didn't like clinton either, but I would've probably voted clinton because I think she would be far more mature than trump.

that being said, trump's impressed me rather favorably. he's done well as president (IMO), and in any event better than I thought he would (even though he continues to say stupid things on a semi-regular basis).

Trump's handling of the corona outbreak is honestly downright depressing. My life comes first, not anything else he's done.

I'm going to college to be an entertainer. My preferred career path would have me performing every day. Covid has been leaving people with permanent lung damage. Some of broadway's top performers who recovered from it still experience shortness of break and dizziness when they practice. If I catch covid and get permanent lung damage my career is over before it even starts. I can't risk that, not even looking at the fact that I suffer from a chest deformity that could theoretically put me at risk (I don't think it realistically does due to my singing training giving me stronk and healthy lungs.)