I’ll change it rn don’t tempt me
Have you ever heard the tragedy of Darth Jar Jar the wise?
The Godfather will now say “x player has been GanelOwned”
Have you ever heard the tragedy of Darth Jar Jar the wise?
Any objections?
Have you ever heard the tragedy of Darth Jar Jar the wise?
While on the topic, why do we use a Godfather? Why don't we use something starcraft related? Like Kerrigan? Why not actually theme "Starcraft 2 Mafia" around Starcraft?
Originally Posted by BananaCucho
-vote Varcron
Originally Posted by BananaCucho
Oh look more ranting, yawn
Originally Posted by BananaCucho
Freedom of speech is not narcisstic and I don’t know why you’d label it as such. Freedom of speech is the most fundamental freedom there is. If people can’t speak freely, they can’t think freely. Also, there is virtually no relationship between lynching in mafia and the historical practice of lynching black oriole. I would not feel the slightest bit offended if I as a black person got lynched in the game of mafia. People attack far too great an importance to innocuous words such as this one. You literally have to distort its meaning and context to get to racial phrases.
I’ll repeat this once again, if people are offended by the word lynch in the context of mafia (which denotes angry townfolks coming together to lynch traitors/scoundrels in their midst), they either don’t understand the context or they need to sort themselves out.
I think we should allow the word lynch in forum mafia, especially if we don't have anyone complaining about it's use.
Same opinion. The forum bot should just the word that is most natural when thinking about killing a certain person from your group. You could say, "Sentenced to death by firing squad," but that seems too wordy. Mafia was also developed around the time lynchings were a thing.
first a little context. in the game that I hosted, there were 16 people. we had two asian men (one of which was my boss), 1 white woman (my boss's boss's boss), and a black woman. that leaves 12 white men.
let's break this down.
It's narcissistic to take it to the point of making a big stink over things that don't really matter. A more appropriate violation of freedom of speech is something like a government jailing it's citizens for talking about the holocaust, because the government wants to deny it happen. Or a government censoring newspapers because the newspaper is exposing dirt on authorities. Not over not being allowed to use some word.
Sure, I could have asserted my right to freedom of speech to my boss's boss's boss started to look uncomfortable when everyone's phones started narrating at loud volume: "ANGELA WAS LYNCHED BY BRIAN, RYAN, JEFFREY, GREG, KEVIN, AND KEVIN." It's my right to say what I want in a game. I could have even said afterward too: "Yes!!! we LYNCHED angela! good job team!" It would not have gone over well and that would have probably been the last time I would have played mafia with my coworkers.
So yes, I swallowed what would have been self centeredness and gave up my right to force my word choice to instead choose promote a better community.
Your thread here would have generated a lot more sympathy if you had been banned for using the word "lynch" on their site. That would actually be a freedom of speech violation because you're expressing yourself and they are stifling it.
That's not what happened on MU.
The community leaders wish to express their bot code differently. They have the utmost freedom to decide what their bot says. And, in that opening post, they specifically say they won't moderate others from using the word "lynch" because they recognize the world doesn't revolve around America. And if you're offended by these facts on MU, you can leave, which you did. Everyone's free in this free freedom space of free.
This is some backwards irony here.
Here are some examples of americans lynching black people
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catego...in_Mississippi
These were gruesome executions carried out by a majority in a community. Hmm, that sounds a lot like how we do lynchings here on sc2mafia in the forums. A majority lynches someone they suspect of some alleged wrong doing.
With the mod, it's worse. You have depictions of someone being gassed (if i recall correctly "jew" used to trigger that, but was removed), someone being burned alive, and someone being shot by firing squad. I forget if hanging is coded in there too. Here's an example of people being burned alive in Mississippi, just to really connect people lynched by fire in the mod to historical practices. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynchi...bert_McDaniels.
There is a relationship between the word "lynch" and historical practices of lynching black people. A more defensible argument would be that it's not the only example in the world. There were and are other lynchings that have taken place around the world, at different times. But in significant communities in America, "lynch" is a scary throwback to darker historical violence. These people don't need to be reminded of this in a just for fun game.
You're not black, nor do you live in the deep American South, so you have literally no clue whether you'd feel offended or not. If anything, this looks more like you (i think a white man) dictating how a black man ought to feel; the optics of which is funny, to say the least.
I could say here, if I was pretending to be Ganelon pretending to be black, I would get offended by this community's insistence on using the word lynch. But that's equally as ridiculous.
Personally, I'd rather not be the authority on whether people need to sort themselves out, and look to see if there are easy things that I can do to get more people into playing mafia. I will gladly trade one word during a 2.5 hours for 2.5 hours of fun in my favorite fucking game in the world.
Sorry. What that last sentence should read is:
I will gladly edit one word in my code for hours and hours of fun on a mafia app with a greater selection of people, knowing that these people (who might have some problems) aren't being "triggered" by something I wrote.
FM XVII: Bonney Jewelry (Journalist)
FM XVIII: Kalou (Savage Godfather)
FM XX: Joseph Bertrand (Marshall)
FM XXI: USA (Escort)
FM XV: Whiskey (Whore)
Who cares if it's wordy. No one has to type it over and over again. It's a code change. And I absolutely fucking bet people aren't even reading the text. They just look for the @Voss ping.
FM XVII: Bonney Jewelry (Journalist)
FM XVIII: Kalou (Savage Godfather)
FM XX: Joseph Bertrand (Marshall)
FM XXI: USA (Escort)
FM XV: Whiskey (Whore)
Would just like to re-emphasize this.
The discussion here and on MU is not about banning players from using the word MU. No one's rights are being infringed upon here.
To me it seems like we, as a community, have an outrage over another community's exercise of their freedom of speech in some text in an app. It's hypocritical.
FM XVII: Bonney Jewelry (Journalist)
FM XVIII: Kalou (Savage Godfather)
FM XX: Joseph Bertrand (Marshall)
FM XXI: USA (Escort)
FM XV: Whiskey (Whore)
If that's what people want to do to the Godfather who announces the day-end post, it's fine, I'm not going to get my pants in a jimmy because of it, but I still disagree with the reasoning behind it. I mean, I don't actually know how many people we're turning off of mafia by using the word lynch.
Like are we putting it up to a vote? I'm just going to say the word isn't offensive enough to warrant a change. That's all.
Replace Godfather with a mothership
Replace lynch with pew pew pew
Originally Posted by BananaCucho
FM XVII: Bonney Jewelry (Journalist)
FM XVIII: Kalou (Savage Godfather)
FM XX: Joseph Bertrand (Marshall)
FM XXI: USA (Escort)
FM XV: Whiskey (Whore)
As Voss said, there's an interesting conversation about how far we're willing to go scrubbing our language to meet our sensibilities. Language holds a lot more value than some crappy statues.
If a secular gov.t decided they weren't gonna say goodbye any more because the language favoured monotheists, once a lifetime or not I'd probably be pissed too lol.
There's an interesting argument about whether we're actually doing this with good intentions or just white washing language for our own self satisfaction. Part of the reason people can downplay how bad certain historical atrocities like racism really were is because we've carefully scrubbed modern allusions to it for our own comfort.
We're viewing this from the POV of (I assume) 16-30yos roughly. If you hit 80 and find a considerable portion of the words you grew intimate with got the once-in-a-lifetime treatment, perhaps you'd have a more wary view of this.
I don't think this is rolling out the carpet to Orwell's future or whatnot, but we always end up having the same arguments with the same sides. I'm just trying to liven it up a bit heh
My mate's dad went through a lot of racism in his childhood here, and was part of some of the demonstrations for equal rights in the 80s. He has a very cynical attitude to moves like this. He says white people are simply hiding from their past. Given there are definitely POC who want these changes, that's not a totally fair assessment, but he regards those POC as indulging in their own way.
lol yzb that is definitely a huge part of it. fixing language is extremely simple and it allows you to, most reprehensibly, feel good about yourself for ‘helping to end racism’ or whatever, when in fact this and other things like it have the OPPOSITE effect
yes Voss there is a relationship between LYNCHING and American blacks beung lynched
however people have been getting lynched for thousands of years. and it WILL happen again in places where justice cannot be dispensed by the law. it will probably happen on our first space colonies.
as it stands, lynching people in mafia is completely different than lynching blacks in America. you lynch people in this game to root out evil. Lynching blacks happens for the exact opposite reason
anyways just like MM I understand why you changed the word on narrator. I too would change it if it meant losing my
job (potentially) if I didn’t do it, so I’m not attacking you over that dw
Voss, I can tell you I know I wouldn’t be offended. I’m Jewish (ethnically, not religiously) and I literally make racist jokes about Jews all the time. I’m not a person that gets offended over racial stereotypes, because honestly, if a joke is funny (and is just a joke), why not laugh at it?
Racist jokes are not toxic. In fact, jokes in general (except for jokes about VERY recent disasters - someone in my Uni meme chat made memes about the notre dame fire immediately after the event and that was a huge wtf) aren’t. if jokes aren’t offensive, how could words that have nothing to do with racial problems be?
Last edited by ; July 27th, 2020 at 05:07 AM.
Id be a lot more amenable to this if the word used was ‘gassed’, because I literally cannot think of any other context where that was used. even then, hey, it’s just a word, I wouldn’t care if you guys ‘gassed’ me instead of lynching me.
Why does it have to be virtue signaling? Maybe instead they're simply trying to send a message to their black players that they support them? Idk how big MU is, but in a small community a message like that from your admins actually means something. I don't think it's the same as the large companies that send out automated "we support BLM" messages.
But does a newcomer know that? As Voss's anecdote showed, it can put off newcomers.
Have you ever heard the tragedy of Darth Jar Jar the wise?
anyway my problem with this word change - and where I think everyone is missing the point, isn’t the word change per se. I don’t give a shit if a website changes their ModBot word to something. My problem is the underlying attitude that led to the word change even becoming an issue in the first place.
we support everyone, and we don’t even know peoples skin color on this site. I don’t think sending messages is necessary when the message is implied. ii don’t know exactly what it betrays, but it definitely shows something that you don’t want to show to the outside world
anyway, sorry if my tone was too harsh. I was just really angry. I wasn’t attacking anyone on this website, as I don’t think anyone here would want to change the word lynch to something else (especially seeing as there’s no reason to, lol)
Why are you trying to police MU's speech though? That is quite SJW to say that they should use a certain word because using a different word hurts your feelings.
lmao I’m SJW for what? I’m not policing anyone’s speech, if they want to use the word eliminate that’s their fucking problem. The change however is stupid and coming from a place of where the admins want to feel good about themselves for ‘fighting to end racism!!’ lol
I like how you literally call me SJW for feeling strongly about this and yet won’t call out the site changing a word that didn’t need changing.
I think it's pretty oppressive to their free speech to force them into using a certain word....
lmao ok
Mag's right, it's dumb as hell. It's as if these people are actively looking for things to get upset over, then demand that the world change for them.
Lynch is a racist word? Shit, in the future we can't say "arrest" because of recent events in the US either.
It's ridiculous and certainly shouldn't be encouraged or supported.
What, we gonna censor a new word every other week?
Then come up with new terms to refer to the same damn thing?
Odd place to be posting about this though.
Your friendly neighbourhood Asian.
-vote Varcron
Originally Posted by BananaCucho
Smh I can't believe regressives are trying so hard to pressure someone into using speech that they like. The guy made the bot and coded it himself, let him do what he wants with it ffs.
"Regressives", nice, I'mma start using that
Originally Posted by BananaCucho
Idk what you’re talking about I’m not pressuring anyone, the point is that people pressured the ModBot owner to change it.
But you're criticizing him for expressing his free speech...
this is literally mental gymnastics. I’m out