S-FM 302: Magellan (15p)

[S-FM Billigan Holbird]

I think the biggest problem with my assessment of Jan is that it assumes the player angle shot by posting after the thread was closed.

I see this as a veteran poster pretending to be new. Yes, in context a veteran SC2 mod player but still.



What (almost exclusively) SC2 Mafia mod player says this?

Am I making sense?

Your case is:

1: assuming angleshooting (and deliberate breaking of host's rules of not posting at night)
2: assuming the angleshooty play exists, which does not only imply rulebreaking, but a lot of 4D chess
3: nearing com-hunting ("which mod player says this")
4: excluding the possibility of him being an off-site player (i.e., new on sc2maf)

As for the quotes in #1946, I don't think they're damning in any way. Mentioning Disguiser isn't exactly grounds for lynch or distrust.

[S-FM Marlwyn Janson]

In short, I say to all of you that while I have no intention of lynching in Coroner claims -- Jans is likely a veteran player taking us for a ride.

Assessing a player's skill level and seeing if it lines up with how they play the game is important. Keep in mind this is coming from someone who defended Jan D1.

[S-FM Billigan Holbird]

And in great irony (because of his profile picture) Jans reminds me of Tobi from Naruto. Goofy, silly mistake-making guy who you'd never expect ill of really.

But the problem lies in what I see as a disconnect from his implied skill-set and what we observe. This isn't scum-paint, this is a legitimate concern.

Train of consciousness isn't a thing in SC2Mafia mod. Neither is an explicit list of everyone's alignments on day one (assuming no hackers lol.)

And we're supposed to be o k with all this.

We're supposed not to be trying to find out who is behind the accounts. As I said, you're excluding the possibility that he is an off-site FM player. He could also be lying purely to preserve his anonymity, as any alignment.

[S-FM Gollert Twissell]

Can I ask you guys what you think of Jan's play here?

Is my assessment of him earlier unfair?

I don't quite think it's unfair.. but I do think it's unlikely. There are other posts where he is being open and sharing about his thought process.

"Mafia need to scum paint town so we lynch a town and not one of them."

This is useful, I need to pay attention to who is trying to skull fuck who. I have a tenancy to ignore unreasonable scum painting behavior when I can't understand or agree with the levity of their argument.

"I need to pay attention" is an acknowledgment of a shortcoming, for which I think veterans would have a hard time showing humility. For instance, in this post he learns something new and decides to relate it to another phrase "skull fuck" which I think is a more natural term that one would use in real life. I think he really is relating all the new things this game to a conversation in real life. As you can see, his speech seems to mirror a natural conversation.

It may be that he is some super vet from MU or something that has disguised as a new player before, but that explanation is too unlikely to me.

[S-FM Billigan Holbird]

In spite of my disagreement with Marlwyn there, I do like the scum hunting attempt that looks genuine to me. + townpoints.

[S-FM Marlwyn Janson]

Your case is:

1: assuming angleshooting (and deliberate breaking of host's rules of not posting at night)
2: assuming the angleshooty play exists, which does not only imply rulebreaking, but a lot of 4D chess
3: nearing com-hunting ("which mod player says this")
4: excluding the possibility of him being an off-site player (i.e., new on sc2maf)

As for the quotes in #1946, I don't think they're damning in any way. Mentioning Disguiser isn't exactly grounds for lynch or distrust.

You're already on the kill list of the PoE but sure, I'll entertain.

1. It would be angleshooting to intentionally post when you know you're not supposed to in order to appear derpy right?
2. It does. Why the fuck do you think not angleshooting exists as a rule?
3. I'm not asking which MOD player says this, I'm asking when has this ever been said in the mod? By anyone, ever. Who has the time to do a train of consciousness in the, perhaps minute or two that exists during the day (while fourteen other people are talking?)
4. He said he is a veteran of the mod. Not offsite.

[S-FM Billigan Holbird]

I don't quite think it's unfair.. but I do think it's unlikely. There are other posts where he is being open and sharing about his thought process.



"I need to pay attention" is an acknowledgment of a shortcoming, for which I think veterans would have a hard time showing humility. For instance, in this post he learns something new and decides to relate it to another phrase "skull fuck" which I think is a more natural term that one would use in real life. I think he really is relating all the new things this game to a conversation in real life. As you can see, his speech seems to mirror a natural conversation.

It may be that he is some super vet from MU or something that has disguised as a new player before, but that explanation is too unlikely to me.

Agreed.

What's your read on Vladislow, you two? Nothing from him sticked out clearly from what I've seen (excluding the claim obviously), although I should ISO him now and probably should've done that earlier.

[S-FM Marlwyn Janson]

I don't quite think it's unfair.. but I do think it's unlikely. There are other posts where he is being open and sharing about his thought process.



"I need to pay attention" is an acknowledgment of a shortcoming, for which I think veterans would have a hard time showing humility. For instance, in this post he learns something new and decides to relate it to another phrase "skull fuck" which I think is a more natural term that one would use in real life. I think he really is relating all the new things this game to a conversation in real life. As you can see, his speech seems to mirror a natural conversation.

It may be that he is some super vet from MU or something that has disguised as a new player before, but that explanation is too unlikely to me.

I just think the terminology + implied skill-set do not line up at all. Their implied favorite role when asked was in fact Disguiser, of all things. Ironic or bold?

A Veteran player could emulate this.

[S-FM Gollert Twissell]

3. I'm not asking which MOD player says this, I'm asking when has this ever been said in the mod? By anyone, ever. Who has the time to do a train of consciousness in the, perhaps minute or two that exists during the day (while fourteen other people are talking?)

I've seen people use and do trains of consciousnesses on other non-forum mafia sites.

[S-FM Marlwyn Janson]

We're supposed not to be trying to find out who is behind the accounts. As I said, you're excluding the possibility that he is an off-site FM player. He could also be lying purely to preserve his anonymity, as any alignment.

Why do you think I'm trying to find out who is playing that account? I don't really care even if I have my own suspicions.

I'm talking about what terminology he uses. Keep up.

[S-FM Marlwyn Janson]

I've seen people use and do trains of consciousnesses on other non-forum mafia sites.

But we have more information than that. We know this is specific to SC2's Mafia mod. You don't need to rationalize it by broadening the situation. There has been plenty of other colorful FM language used.

[S-FM Marlwyn Janson]

I'm even omitting portions of his text that sound like taunts.

I'm not a moron here. I think we're being taken for a ride but come to your own conclusions.

[S-FM Marlwyn Janson]

But don't leave me in the dark fellas.

[S-FM Gollert Twissell]

Agreed.

What's your read on Vladislow, you two? Nothing from him sticked out clearly from what I've seen (excluding the claim obviously), although I should ISO him now and probably should've done that earlier.

Yeah exactly. Nothing from him really sticked out. He makes a couple posts discrediting Lois, admits that he has been fence sitting, talks about the day being long, and then gives this reads list:

Spoiler : Vlad Reads :

Marlwyn Janson
Lois Francklyn


Billigan Holbird
Lembird Oshay
Gollert Twissell


Marck Wilbird
Arnarld Quinne
Jiles Carballo
Fred Attlebish

Rotholfo Goncales
Jan Korvin
Edoua Maije

Bart Pilfter
Joha Schtilzt

Frankly I don't like Rotholfo's entrance. He literally said "Vote someone I'll sheep you", just strikes me as such a shady way to enter and buddy up to me (who he townreads...) but actually look like he is doing something.

Which is very very status quo. He has everyone up in town that many other have up in town, and down in scum he has people everyone thinks could be scummy. Then he has Jiles and Quinne in the middle, which I ding him for.

I'm missing votecounts from my VCA (piecing them together right now) but it seems he really didn't take a stance since he didn't vote for Jiles?

[S-FM Gollert Twissell]

But don't leave me in the dark fellas.

I'm willing to swing either way, but will possibly need to rerereread if I am to come to the conclusion you are. He well may be taking us for a ride. I'm not sure I have the brainpower left though to consider it objectively.

[S-FM Marlwyn Janson]

I'm willing to swing either way, but will possibly need to rerereread if I am to come to the conclusion you are. He well may be taking us for a ride. I'm not sure I have the brainpower left though to consider it objectively.

I understand. It's pretty bizarre and I maybe wrong. I just don't think this is paranoia, its way too odd and coincidental. Even matched up against Vlad who I had on the lower ends of my readslists, this looks shady.

[S-FM Gollert Twissell]

I understand. It's pretty bizarre and I maybe wrong. I just don't think this is paranoia, its way too odd and coincidental. Even matched up against Vlad who I had on the lower ends of my readslists, this looks shady.

I think I've always saw Fat Worm Jiles as neutral, but he did claim citizen. We can't do anything, meaning we will sit here and attack each other until something actually happens. Not a great plan, but then again, you guys seem to be able to do reads I'm not capable of yet. I've been judging each of you based on your interaction with me, not with others, as thats how I treat people IRL. That appears to be a weakness in FM mafia. And as for circle jerk, I think a dutch rudder would be more appropriate. Any seconds on doing a dutch rudder instead of circle jerk?

There's posts that go both ways. Like what kind of vet says this stuff?

[S-FM Marlwyn Janson]

And if my theory is correct, they will be another person tomorrow. I've already left guise codes in the thread for me, despite that I'm top poster.

[S-FM Marlwyn Janson]

There's posts that go both ways. Like what kind of vet says this stuff?

What kind of vet pretending to be new says "you guys are so good" talks about planning and recommends alternative sexual deviance.

Well I'd be com hunting at that point.

[S-FM Marlwyn Janson]

Oshay you can chime in.

[S-FM Joha Schtilzt]

I think the biggest problem with my assessment of Jan is that it assumes the player angle shot by posting after the thread was closed.

I see this as a veteran poster pretending to be new. Yes, in context a veteran SC2 mod player but still.



What (almost exclusively) SC2 Mafia mod player says this?

Am I making sense?

The I was in coordination with this units line of thinking until this point_

This is blatant COM hunting_. This unit should not be diving into claims of skill during this setup_

If the unit has a bad feeling then the unit should say they have a bad feeling_

[S-FM Marlwyn Janson]

The I was in coordination with this units line of thinking until this point_

This is blatant COM hunting_. This unit should not be diving into claims of skill during this setup_

If the unit has a bad feeling then the unit should say they have a bad feeling_

Its not com hunting. Did I say who's name it was? Who cares? Talk about the content.

[S-FM Lembird Oshay]

Oshay you can chime in.

i think it's weird but not necessarily alignment indicative
unless you can say that what lois was doing was alignment indicative
because they're doing the same damn thing imo

[S-FM Joha Schtilzt]

The I does not understand what the discussion here is_

The collective confirms a coroner tonight_. This discussion is without merit_. Our actions as a collective are better focused elsewhere_

If the Goncales unit returns to the collective with a defense the I would like to revisit the Lois unit_. There is a feeling to the I that the collective has more story to be found from this unit_. Information should be given about their actions over the night cycle_

[S-FM Joha Schtilzt]

Its not com hunting. Did I say who's name it was? Who cares? Talk about the content.

The content is irrelevant due to the fact that the dilemma will resolve over the night cycle_

Why is the Mulan unit so focused on this one aspect_[?] Is the unit a Bounty Hunter_[?]

[S-FM Lembird Oshay]

The I does not understand what the discussion here is_

The collective confirms a coroner tonight_. This discussion is without merit_. Our actions as a collective are better focused elsewhere_

If the Goncales unit returns to the collective with a defense the I would like to revisit the Lois unit_. There is a feeling to the I that the collective has more story to be found from this unit_. Information should be given about their actions over the night cycle_

has everyone checked in and seen that we're mass claiming?

[S-FM Marlwyn Janson]

Our own definition of Com-hunting:

Refers to a player attempting to figure out the real identity of another player in a game with Anonymous Accounts. Some hosts prohibit COM hunting in games with Anonymous Accounts so you should carefully review the rules of the game you are playing before doing so.

As if it hasn't already been brought up who I am. I'm not trying to figure out who this player is I'm trying to figure out whether their actions & assumed skill-set / dialogue match up.

So fuck off with that.

[S-FM Joha Schtilzt]

The collective can tank a disguise and continue congregating_

If the fake coroner is not a disguised and is[,] rather[,] some kind of third party[,] then the collective receives a free cycle for information_

[S-FM Lembird Oshay]

The collective can tank a disguise and continue congregating_

If the fake coroner is not a disguised and is[,] rather[,] some kind of third party[,] then the collective receives a free cycle for information_

im not worried about being disguised
if they want to try to emulate me they're more than welcome to try

[S-FM Marlwyn Janson]

The content is irrelevant due to the fact that the dilemma will resolve over the night cycle_

Why is the Mulan unit so focused on this one aspect_[?] Is the unit a Bounty Hunter_[?]

I understand it would be resolved mechanically and have said this myself. I'm positing a theory I have on the player.

Calling me an Exec for a player I defended D1 is blatant BS. Work on yourself.

[S-FM Marlwyn Janson]

im not worried about being disguised
if they want to try to emulate me they're more than welcome to try

You have a clear way of not only posting, but timing your posts. I'd see the guise.

[S-FM Joha Schtilzt]

The I has seen the mass claim and has not claimed yet_

The I is an ensign[,] aboard the Magellan for the last 3 operations_

The safety of the crew of the Magellan is fundamental to the I[,] it is not within my parameters to have any advanced procedures_

[S-FM Lembird Oshay]

You have a clear way of not only posting, but timing your posts. I'd see the guise.

damn i dont even pay attention to timing

consider me flattered

[S-FM Marlwyn Janson]

damn i dont even pay attention to timing

consider me flattered

Yeah man. I'm super fucking observant. It's actually a crux more often than not.

[S-FM Lembird Oshay]

Yeah man. I'm super fucking observant. It's actually a crux more often than not.

want me to look at any other posts?

im lazy about looking and posting but i put all that effort into brain stuff

[S-FM Marlwyn Janson]

want me to look at any other posts?

im lazy about looking and posting but i put all that effort into brain stuff

Refer to my Jan theory.

[S-FM Lembird Oshay]

Refer to my Jan theory.

you mean the one where he's a vet player playing a noob?

[S-FM Joha Schtilzt]

I understand it would be resolved mechanically and have said this myself. I'm positing a theory I have on the player.

Calling me an Exec for a player I defended D1 is blatant BS. Work on yourself.

The common phrasing ‘the early bird gets the worm’ does not apply here_

It is not uncommon in witch-hunt scenarios such as this one for the collective to have radically varying opinions[,] and furthermore for independent units to have varying thoughts until the collective resolves the conflict_

The I believes the phrase that would better apply to you is ‘the second mouse gets the cheese’_. Constant seeking for validation has not gone unnoticed by the I_. Whether this is a unit intricacy or indicative of motive is open for foruming_

It is not worth the processing power of the I to discuss this further with you_. The I cares little of the opinion of vocal units because they will voice them regardless_. And the motives of a bounty hunter will do little to quell the collective_

[S-FM Joha Schtilzt]

Fuck the I broke phrasing parameters_

[S-FM Lembird Oshay]

Fuck the I broke phrasing parameters_

Lol!

[S-FM Joha Schtilzt]

Perhaps a parameter set that is easier to replicate upon a mobile device may have been a more prudent choice_

[S-FM Lembird Oshay]

Perhaps a parameter set that is easier to replicate upon a mobile device may have been a more prudent choice_

yeah i choose somethin' pretty easy to do

easier than borgspeak that's for sure

[S-FM Joha Schtilzt]

yeah i choose somethin' pretty easy to do

easier than borgspeak that's for sure

Regardless[,] the parameter is entertaining to the I_

Goals have been reached with these grammatical outlines_. The investment of the I is much larger_. Faith to the Magellan is unwavering_

[S-FM Marlwyn Janson]

The common phrasing ‘the early bird gets the worm’ does not apply here_

It is not uncommon in witch-hunt scenarios such as this one for the collective to have radically varying opinions[,] and furthermore for independent units to have varying thoughts until the collective resolves the conflict_

The I believes the phrase that would better apply to you is ‘the second mouse gets the cheese’_. Constant seeking for validation has not gone unnoticed by the I_. Whether this is a unit intricacy or indicative of motive is open for foruming_

It is not worth the processing power of the I to discuss this further with you_. The I cares little of the opinion of vocal units because they will voice them regardless_. And the motives of a bounty hunter will do little to quell the collective_

The I thinks you are fucking silly.

[S-FM Marlwyn Janson]

you mean the one where he's a vet player playing a noob?

Also yes.

[S-FM Lembird Oshay]

i think it's weird but not necessarily alignment indicative
unless you can say that what lois was doing was alignment indicative
because they're doing the same damn thing imo

expanding on this

twat!lois is an experienced and intelligent player, that's for sure, and i think that they 100% knew what they were doing.
i just don't think they were town, if they were town trying to stir up the pot and generate discussion, they could've admitted that at any time during the day, instead they derailed the entire day and ended up being the catalyst for a mislynch
town should be playing honestly and openly, twat!lois was playing like an overconfident ego-lord, it's entirely possible that jan is playing a noob.
the question is if it's town motivated or not, and i don't know how to go about thinking about that

[S-FM Lembird Oshay]

what really sucks is that lois is an un cc'd investigative, so they might've been town the whole time, which just grinds my gears on more than one level
jan is in an unresolved 1v1

does this discussion help resolve the 1v1?

[S-FM Lembird Oshay]

what really sucks is that lois is an un cc'd investigative, so they might've been town the whole time, which just grinds my gears on more than one level
jan is in an unresolved 1v1

does this discussion help resolve the 1v1?

i've been doubtful against jan, but they've been paying attention to chat, but they also fail to understand their own role?
it's weird as hell

[S-FM Marlwyn Janson]

expanding on this

twat!lois is an experienced and intelligent player, that's for sure, and i think that they 100% knew what they were doing.
i just don't think they were town, if they were town trying to stir up the pot and generate discussion, they could've admitted that at any time during the day, instead they derailed the entire day and ended up being the catalyst for a mislynch
town should be playing honestly and openly, twat!lois was playing like an overconfident ego-lord, it's entirely possible that jan is playing a noob.
the question is if it's town motivated or not, and i don't know how to go about thinking about that

Eh. Is that exactly true?

"Hur dur I stirred the pot and we get info from it!"

-Never happened.

"Fuck you guys, I quit I'm Sheriff." (actually does quit.)

-Happened.

Eduardo and I even spoke about this. It seems troll, angleshooty and stupid. You're demanding genius from a derp of a slot, in effect.

[S-FM Marck Wilbird]

xD why do you townread him tho

Brrrrro Mulan's fucking town

Stop having fear of the skilled player pocketing you and accept it