Based on the performance so far, this seems like the natural lynch to me.
-vote Grakylan
So here is my thought on everyone way of talking / votes / alignment / role / cooperation
Keep in mind, those are only mine, and might not be the absolute truth.
Martin : A LOT OF POST, some of them interesting, and some are just math stats. Being bussed, lead early discussion, I feel a bit of panic tho, but not a scum one, I feel he is a Citizen (medium town read)
Maybe because Martin just cant.
Ash Lael : Good amount of post, very complete from what I've seen. Ash was part of the vote train on Martin, the reason was kinda strange for me tho,even if I understand Ash pushed Martin cause of Martin's post asking for prefer role. Then unvoted on Dallarian's demand. Slight town read, I have no idea of your role.
Grakylan : Not many post, a messy entry, into randomly voting me then unvote. I feel like Grakylan is just powerless right now.
Slight Citizen read for me.
Helltanis : Currently Unreadable for some reason.
Dallarian : Obviously a rebel, and a scum wtf. Jokes apart, Dallarian is softly defending Martin, but there hasnt been much interactions between them, his posts were decent, but I find some of Dallarian speech a bit weird, here are my worries
Trying to look less evil with this post? I find that strange. And also apparently doesnt want to be stuck into "small things"
But overall Dallarian has also been leading the discussion quite well. Null read. I do not know the role tho but I dont think he is Citizen at all, he knows he can bring something.
Renegade : Not much post to work with, only reacted to others earlier. Very slight scum read. Expected a bit more post still.
bakermir : I didnt like much the way he attacked Martin. Bakermir followed Ash blindly and early on the Martin's vote without saying anything just after Ash brought his thought. Medium/Heavy scumread.
Zedus : Second post directly attacking Martin (first post was : "Well I'm here"). And I dont believe math/stats are really favoring Martin as a scum more than a desesperate townie with the most vote on him. Medium/Heavy scumread as well.
To conclude :
Just wanted to point out some facts that are aimed for EVERYONE :
Fact 1 ) Renegade and Zedus are both in my scumlist as well as bakermir atm.
We should really watch for them.
Fact 2 ) Please if you leave someone as "null", explain a bit more because this could be likely seen as a scum friend hiding.
Fact 3 ) I saw some of you are scared of someone hammering. Be sure that if someone do so, this person will have to explain and have A/SEVERAL GOOD REASON(S)
Fact 4 ) Lets talk about those math/stat thingies : I heard some of you say "Yeah, there are 77% that a town get lynched..." and so on...
Thats why we are here, to decrease this 77%. By looking for clue in everyones speeches.
So please remember that its good for everyone to know this but focus more on the game than those math thing.
And considering the early Martin's question toward each of us (asking for our best role), this doesnt mean anything from me except starting the discussion.
In the past newbie game held on this forum,and generally, people asking early questions tends to end up being townie at the end. I can link you if needed, just ask me.
Fact 5 ) I didnt believe we would be close to page 10 before mid-day 1 (ingame) wow. Congrats.
Anyway I'm done for the moment. Here were my thoughts.
Auwt, you are hard defending Marino, but say Grak leans citizen to you yet Grak jumped in voted marino and jumped out.
Something doesn't add up to me here.
I am hard defending Martin because he doesnt look scum to me at all, the scum attack on him wasnt properly organised, some vote were thrown like : why not lol?
I know that the early Grakylan's posts werent that convincing, but please try to be at Grakylan's place.
What would a Citizen that is not used to play Citzen do in -Mafia- ?
This Citizen would just random and pray, since they feeling they cant do anything at night.
Thats why I do not seriously take Grakylan's vote on me and Martin.
I am careful with naming people I can trust and I have habit from modded mafia of trusting only people who are supported by lws, so I find it difficult to townread anyone. I am not even sure if I get the idea correctly. Most of below are more opinion than actual read.
1. Auwut is a strong player I need more information him. If he is tOwOn he will try to lead a bit more in the future, unless he protects himself. I need to see where it goes first.
2. Renegate sees and observes and asks right questions. Is likely to be Townie.
3. bakermir doesn’t have my trust. He’s clever and he want to see Martin dead as soon as possible, what openly opposes my opinion and is suspicious for me. He can quickly become town leader and lead us to victory after Martins turns out to be scum, but can be also clever scum trying to focus attention far from mafia. Calls lynch “trial”, to confuse modded players and let them think that their vote doesn’t kill? I have no opinion on his aligment yet, both his town and mafia players sometimes look scummy.
4. It was hard for me to see what you all have against Martin, but then I found out that he asked his question very early, as If he was afraid we will begin some different topic. It wasn’t reaction to low activity or warmup for everyone.
This convinced me his behaviour was suspicious. I wonder how much “being inexperienced” plays role here. Still need to read a bit more.
5. It’s too early for my opinion about Helltanis. It would be easier to make read about SJ...
6. Zedus easily follows train on Martin, manipulated Martin’s post to suggest that Martin want to random lynch and then tries to lynch Martin for that reason. Looks like he tried to look for any reason to lynch Martin. Looks like Mafia member.
7. I can judge Grakylan only for his 3 posts. Easily accusses a lot of people. His behaviour turns on alarms in my head. I wonder if he will do anything before lynch. I am unsure who looks more scummy, Zedus or Grakylan.
8. Ash Lael just like Renegate, a bit more active. Doesn’t rush and asks questions that should be asked. Seems to be Town.
The more I read this, the more I understand how serious the logic problems are for half of the players ...
In the case MartinGG99 will not be lynched (he still can be very dumb town, not evil, so lynching him is some risk), I ask investigating roles to keep eye on him and his defenders. His "math" is total anti-town bullshit. Maybe he just have some problems with counting, maybe. But I prefer to think that this is an attempt to confuse everyone. Random lynching d1 is WORST thing town can do. That's why d1 lynch impossbile in most mafia games, IRL or Arcade. Well, at least, lycnhing Martin will not be random.
Btw, if one of mafs will be jailed/roleblocked, they cannot kill? How does it works here?
You were and still are part of the train, just saying.
I totally agree, but looks more like a lost Citizen than a scum trying to fool the game discussion
I do not agree on this. We should lynch someone, at least one of them that look scummier to most of us.
Its indeed impossible because in most mafia games, there are no citizen, and the day phase doesnt last 2 IRL day, I assume with 2 irl days, we are ready to make an opinion on each of us. That cannot be done in the usual 20 seconds D1 on the mod.
Explain please. You seem to have pretty good reason(s).
I never suggested that we random lynch. Only that we lynch. There's a very distinct difference in lynching and random lynching. The only thing making this a non-random lynch, as you've proposed it, is the fact that you disagreed with lynching because you felt it was more likely to get a town, and that you believe im scummy.
Train? You mad?
Manipulated? He definitely said just that. He wants to d1 random lynch, and made fake (or just stupid) explanation why this will be good for town. But this will be good only for evils. Once more, maybe he is not evil, maybe he is just stupid a bit, and realy don't understand math. But the next reason why I am convinced that he is a villain is that when I broke all his “math” with an undeniable argument, he didn’t even answer anything to me. If he were just stupid, he would argue about that, and I could point out to his errors. But he just ignored that argument. that lynching d1 is 77% chance or -1 townie before mafia even starts to act. That's why he is most suspicious now, same as his defenders, who have no arguments to defend him at all. Like you.
If mafia is jailed, then I guess the second member will do night kill.
If person who is trying to kill gets RBed, I guess no kill happens.
I believe it's possible to find mafia member d1 and lynch it. Well, that's exacly what happened the previous game (poor Ganelion). Also, in this setup we can afford mislynch. The most important thing is to gain information and learn from our mistakes.
I wonder why you tried to manipulate Martin's post. Would you like to explain that to me?
-vote Zedus
The first post of this thread has a link to the setup. All mafia members can elect to not do their night ability (such as a consigliere checking someone) in order to carry out the kill. Considering there's a 24 hour night chat, the fact that one of them was jailed would quickly become obvious. The next action for the non-jailed mafia would be to kill, obviously.
Lynching d1 can be only random. Well, except lynching someone like you, who offering this terrible move. But it's ok for me not to lynch you, just check. And if you will appear as town, just ignore you for next days, as person with bad game undestanding, who can easy misslead people.
"Felt"? It's not about feeling. It's math. That REAL math, that lynched one will be most likely townie. 77% chance. Only evil or stupid can offer this shit move for town. Are you evil or stupid? If just stupid, then please, calm down and don't try to lead town to hell with your stupid arguments. But by default, I think that there are no stupids here. If you are not stupid and not evil, why are you so lynch-happy?
I am afraid majority may have different opinion about that.
Are we going to wait till chances of lynching Mafia are higher than 50%? Or do you want Marshall to win the game for you? We do not know if we even have Investigative/Goverment roles, that's important difference from -Mafia-.
We don't need to lynch d1, but it's an opportunity we can use.
Let me answer this honestly:
There is some basis for not going for a day 1 lynch. I've recently heard from a Podcast on the Mafia Universe Championships (specifically the one review game 6 I believe) where an experienced player stated about 40% of day 1 lynches were mafia. So even with the most experienced players in the world, its difficult to avoid a day 1 mislynch. But I believe and feel a day 1 lynch often yields information on who is likely scum and who is not, thus improving the accuracy of lynches on day 2 and day 3. Otherwise, we can all sit on our buts here and wait for our 3 TPRs to die each night while they have a lesser chance to hit mafia while mafia from night 1 (right off the bat) already have a 42% chance to kill one of our TPRs each night.
Keep in mind im not directly objecting to my lynching so long as we have a discussion about it. Which we are now. And that there is some consensus in lynching me.
For posterity, here are the current votes:
MartinGG99 (2 [L-3]):
bakermir, Zedus
Zedus (1 [L-4]):
Dallarian
Grakylan (1 [L-4]):
Renegade
1 additional vote from Grakylan on MartinGG99 is presumed as well.
We had no reason to lynch someone, until Martin starts his trying to misslead town to hell with his Evil Intentions or Glorous Stupidity. It's ignore or lynch for me now for this player. There is a lot of text in forum mafia, better to filter out someone with bad ideas.
If he will not be lynched, he is the primary target for invest roles to check.
@Helltanis
Any thoughts or feelings on the game so far that you would be willing to share?
Or do you have any questions you would like to ask any of us?
I would appreciate if there was any, as only through discussion can the town hope to succeed in this game. We could try to rely on the Town Power Roles, but the chances of them targeting mafia are kinda low...Too low for me to be comfortable to be sitting around. Hence the need for discussion.
Page 1-3
Not much has happened, Martin is asking question and showing people how to vote Ash Lael , questions Martin's methods. Clearly I think it good idea to ask question I have not been hear during page 1evaluation
So far I'm just getting my thoughts together to help us as town or the bad guys might get the advantage
Page 4-5
Found some stuff that triggered , Graklyn is on my scum alert because he dosent mind lynching, Dallarain said my the town win and dint include himself makes me think his sus, Martin, Ash l'eau , Zedus seem town so far , I ll make another evaluation soon
I don't know what to make of auwt,bakmir and renegade at the moment
Yeah exactly I had the same thought, Dallarian's speech has a lot of non-town inclusive way of talking that's part of why I put him as null read even though Dallarian made some great posts.
Anyway, my current obvious guess are still placed on bakermir/Zedus, I'm waiting to see how this will go, but my vote will probably go on either of them.
To be honest, I'm waiting for @Ash Lael or @bakermir to return and share their thoughts, if any. Then I might pressure @Zedus more for his thoughts on things other than my lynch suggestion. I would like to see their thoughts on the other players here, now that quite some discussion has occured over the past few hours or so.
goshdarnit that always happens
-unvote
@Helltanis
I found a page, here it is:
https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/misc.php?do=bbcode#vote
You take on too much, talking too much and missleading ppl around too much. Maybe you are evil, maybe you are dumb who thinks he is smartest one. In any case I informing you now ignored for me from this moment. I will wait investigation check results on you. Of course, if you will not be lynched. Lynching you will be good for town even if you are town.
Last edited by Zedus; June 25th, 2020 at 12:10 PM.
Then what is the point of these 48 hours days? I think by having discussion, as much as possible, is a good thing for town. If town isn't meant to talk much unless they have a TPR lead, then why is the first day designed to be as just as long as everything else? Its one of the reason why I post much, even if it leads me to doing dumb things. I also tried my best to think of things for the game before hand, such as those statistics I mentioned earlier.
Wtf do you think you’re doing? You are painting targets on our power roles and telling the scum where to kill. I had a problem with Martin’s question but your behaviour here is so much worse. You are actively playing to the scum’s win condition.
It is in town’s best interest for our power roles to stay hidden. Or, if we don’t want that for whatever reason (say we want to coordinate investigations or even just clear three players), they can just roleclaim. This kind of speculation is just doing the wolves’ work for them.