All those that blame Nose, say aye
Originally Posted by BananaCucho
But Race, Culture, Patriotism, Foreign Policy -- those are things I like to talk about.
(๑˃̵ᴗ˂̵)ﻭ 레드벨벳 ! ! ٩(♡ε♡ )۶
The reason I made this thread was because of a study I read. I for the longest time didn’t understand my political views, because according to psychology I have the temperament of a liberal, but I’m right leaning so it made no sense to me lol. And then it turns out that apparently liberal is meant as a blanket term that lumps both economic and social (I.e. left wing) liberals.
I guess Eastern Europe will turn even the staunchest socialist into a right winger
In Australia the Liberal party is the conservative party.
Systemic racism is indeed real, but the poor outcomes of a black person growing up are less because of systemic racism and more because of culture, upbringing, victimization, and other stuff like it. The Black Lives Matter movement ended quite a few things in my state, a neighboring city's governor stepped down, our police chief stepped down, they defunded school police in troubled districts, so the movement has been successful(?) in getting stuff done; however, this does not solve the moral gap people lack.
America, including black people, are left with a moral gap after the rejection of organized religion. I'm not saying those religions were "good", but they did have a societal function. Those regions (mainly Christianity) kept families together, got fathers to work for the welfare of the family, assigned roles to each member, and promoted the educating of the children by parents.
People are free to reject religion, it's their choice, but people still need families, communities, and a sense of belonging.
Not entirely no, but religion can and did give people morals to live by. But it still stands that rejection of religion is one of the reasons why people get divorced more often. You don't think people need to be told to stop getting divorced as often? Who will tell people that?
I'm not saying we should all convert to be Mormons, but if we can get black fathers to take care of their kids, the number of black kids leaving school, joining gangs, killing other black kids, going to jail, and being poor will be lower.
(๑˃̵ᴗ˂̵)ﻭ 레드벨벳 ! ! ٩(♡ε♡ )۶
Religion has its own moral code. That moral code does not apply to everyone. So you can say "religion can and did give people morals to live by" but all it's doing is enforcing its own moral code.
Why is divorce an immoral act? You know what's immoral? A religious leader telling an abused wife to give her husband another chance and stay in the marriage to avoid a divorce. You know what else is immoral? Someone breaking their marital vows and betraying their spouse's trust by going behind their spouses back to cheat on them for years. Wanna know another one? Staying in a loveless marriage because marriage is "moral".
"Marriage" is not a moral act. It is neither moral nor immoral. Same with divorce. Unless you're religious, and your belief is that marriage is ordained of god, and that divorce is a sin.
Originally Posted by BananaCucho
Without getting too much into this topic, in 2015 77% of black babies were born to a single mom
This has nothing to do with "divorce"
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/7...nic-immigrants
Originally Posted by BananaCucho
I'm not saying religion hasn't commanded people to make horrible decisions based on a bad moral code. It has, I agree. My point is still valid though. I'll just repost it.
"You don't think people need to be told to stop getting divorced as often? Who will tell people that?"
Well, perhaps I was a bit careless with my wording. It definitely has to do with divorce rates though, but the problem of non-equal black outcomes also stems from black children growing up without both of their parents. One could chalk that up to divorce (like I did) or talk about lack of education on contraception or talk about black culture and it's influence on young males unwilling to pay child support or being sexually promiscuous or violent crimes creating widows and widowers, or victimization taking it's toll on the outlook of young males so they feel they should just do whatever.
No, I don't think people need to be told to stop getting divorced. They also don't need to be told to get married. I just made a big argument about how marriage and divorce are neither moral nor immoral.
If 77% of black babies are born to unmarried women, how does divorce have anything to do with it? The statistic isn't "77% of black babies' parents divorce". They are born to mothers who aren't even married in the first place. Divorce has nothing to do with whether a child has a father figure in their life or not. Do you have a source that you can use to argue that somehow this is a problem due to divorce? Or are you just "chalking it up to divorce" based off of nothing?
Last edited by BananaCucho; June 23rd, 2020 at 02:47 PM.
Originally Posted by BananaCucho
I agree with your conclusions for the most part, but the way you've reached it is backwards. Fatherhood is simply a void in many black communities around the country and as Banana pointed out, a large number of black couples are not getting married at all. To the point where I would argue whether or not divorce is even as large a factor as your attributing.
(๑˃̵ᴗ˂̵)ﻭ 레드벨벳 ! ! ٩(♡ε♡ )۶
Last edited by secondpassing; June 23rd, 2020 at 02:54 PM. Reason: semantics is the wrong term
Yeah like I said I am not diving too deeply into this topic right now. Mostly because I am not very well educated on it and I don't want to make statements that I can't back up with actual evidence.
But this was never a semantics argument lol. "America, including black people, are left with a moral gap after the rejection of organized religion." was never a semantics argument.
Originally Posted by BananaCucho
You guys can debate this topic for a bit, I'll step aside.
I had to interject at the religion stuff though, which is something that I am well versed in and feel comfortable holding my own in an argument lol
Originally Posted by BananaCucho
Well, ami is here. Maybe she has something to say
Originally Posted by BananaCucho
DEBATE TAKEOVER
Originally Posted by BananaCucho
She still readin
Originally Posted by BananaCucho
I feel like I can only say:
"but is that trend you're talking about due to current black people being black or is it perhaps because their ancestors were slaves; getting emancipated with no money, education, and being forced to live in the worst communities; laws setup to put them in prison so they could continue to be used as slave labor.. etc..."
so many times.
Brown vs. Board of education was only in 1954. Even if you were to believe the system was 100% equal for everyone from that point onwards, you can't really argue that blacks should have regressed to the mean by now. It's been only a few generations...
Have you ever heard the tragedy of Darth Jar Jar the wise?
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Originally Posted by BananaCucho
This one seems to be taken out of context. It clearly says "EMANCIPATION" on the statue. For a time where slavery was indoctrinated into American tradition, Abraham Lincoln could be seen as a symbol of social progressiveness for that era. That African-American male in that statue is Archer Alexander, a runaway slave that hid in the Northern states with the help of another abolitionist until the the 13th Amendment was ratified. That abolitionist (William Greenfield Eliot) included Alexander into the statue to reflect Abraham Lincoln's Emancipation of slaves. It might look a bit wrong, but this statue isn't anywhere close in terms of racism compared to other statues.
Last edited by Ash; June 23rd, 2020 at 03:33 PM.
Spoiler : Forum Mafia :
A child in a single parent household is a lot more susceptible to a life of poverty or general lower quality life. I think the evidence of this is overwhelming. When it comes to the black community, the single parent household number is incredibly high compared to others. Is this the defining reason for low socioeconomic standing for the black community? Debatable. There is definitely other factors to consider but I think this angle is important simply because you can look at single parent households across all races and see the trend of low socioeconomic standing.
If there's a statue of Robert E. Lee somewhere in a public space for "commemorating a great historical man who is a model for society", which there very probably is, off with its head, definetly. That stuff belongs in a museum to preserve history without glorifying persons directly associated and known mostly for slavery and for its defense. However...
That is a celebration of Lincoln's abolition of slavery... it depicts a reality: slaves who were under their masters, and then Lincoln giving them freedom (yes, that is a very pompous and propangandist sentence, but it's still exactly what this statue represents). It's not glorifying slavery, it's glorifying its ABOLITION, and that is definetly something worth glorifying. It may not have been perfect, but it was a pretty damn good improvement.
~~
As for "confederates are not racist", uhm, sorry, they are. Perhaps a reminder of the Declaration of Causes of Seceding States would be useful...
Spoiler : Declaration of independence of Mississippi :
Whoever supports that cause cannot be anything but racist, or at least completely uncaring about people being literally ENSLAVED, treated as PROPERTIES only because of their origins, which isn't exactly better.
Besides single parent households... culture, education and health are the next important topics to address. I'm probably missing something else important but these are the ones that jump to mind right now. Also this isn't just in regards to the black community, this is for everyone in low socioeconomic standings. All these topics are universal.
I'd also clarify that I believe a loooot of issues that plague communities are intertwined. Just a big ol web of fuck.
mmmm web of fuck
Originally Posted by BananaCucho
Ah I'm out of gas tonight, just lurking btw
(๑˃̵ᴗ˂̵)ﻭ 레드벨벳 ! ! ٩(♡ε♡ )۶
Umpah umpah umpah umpah
Umpah umpah umpah umpah
Here we go now! Umpah-pah huh yeah, uh yeah
경고하는데 조심해야 돼 깊을지도 몰라
여럿 봤는데 못 나오던데 왜? 나도 몰라
내게 묻지 마 얼마나 깊은지 내 눈은 못 보니까 (hoo hoo)
허우적대는 저 다른 애들과 넌 다르길 바라
막 답답하고 숨이 막히고 내게 빠진 거 맞지?
너무 겁먹지 마 난 바로 너야 넌
숨만 쉬어도 내 짝이 될 테니까
Feel the rhythm
몸이 기억하는 대로 좋아
Something unforgettable
바로 지금
맘이 흘러가는 대로 좋아
수평선 위를 나는 거야
Umpah umpah umpah umpah 호흡을 맞추고
Umpah umpah umpah umpah 두 눈을 맞추고
Umpah umpah umpah umpah
너와 나 좋아 something unforgettable
Let the beat drop
기분 so so hot hot, ooh yeah yeah
(๑˃̵ᴗ˂̵)ﻭ 레드벨벳 ! ! ٩(♡ε♡ )۶
This is also my stance on economic and religious issues,
(๑˃̵ᴗ˂̵)ﻭ 레드벨벳 ! ! ٩(♡ε♡ )۶
The problem with fighting for education reform is that one would need to fight against people's active choices. School funding in a large part is from local taxes on the surrounding property. Which makes schools that have poor surrounding neighborhoods generally worse, and around rich neighborhoods good. People play a large part in segregation and move to nicer neighborhoods. As history would have it, rich people move to rich suburbs and are often majority white. Since moving is often a choice, letting good schools be in good neighborhoods does promote that those who want to succeed be placed in an environment that would promoted it.
For example, schools in the Bay Area are known to be exceptional. The parents who moved into there are often Yellow and Brown, and their kids did exceedingly well in school. My class had like 3? Black kids, the last class that graduated had 0. The outcomes of having good schools is it is a huge bonus to the entire economy. The Bay Area has a lot of startups.
So what could be the solution? We can't really prevent people from choosing what house to buy or what neighbors to have, but we could de-localize how property tax is distributed. That, however, causes another whole slew of problems. Emergency services, parks, and sometimes roads are funded locally. De-localizing property tax could require a greater need for government workers, as one would now need more civil engineers and accountants and what-not to redistribute the money to vital services.
Another option would be to increase investment in low-income housing. Aside from the obvious problem of needing money, it also creates wrong incentives (externalities). Companies that build low-income housing are incentivized to use cheaper materials, and the people that live in them may not feel the same economic pressure that the people around them have to pay for rent. So sometimes they become addicted to drugs.
What do you guys think about the education problem?