S-FM 300: Black Flag Nightless [LADDER] GAME THREAD

[BananaCucho]

I've been victim of it before :P. That includes when people say "Oooo you haven't addressed this after 24 hours, SCUM AVOIDING QUESTIONS!", which is almost always wrong anyway, outside of specific circumstances (like the player posting about other things but not about what you asked him to reply to with a ping).

And thanks, Voss.

This is vastly different from:

Activity shaming someone who posted 40 times because you'd want them to post 75 times

This doesn't happen. Show me where this happens.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

This is vastly different from:

This doesn't happen. Show me where this happens.

I don't exactly have time to dig right now, but I will later, I promise lol. Might also make a thread on the topic of activity at some point when I actually have time to participate to it.

[Frinckles]

I say make a reasonable minimum and a reasonable post cap for competitive games. Lift it before EOD. Might encourage less shitposting D1.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

I say make a reasonable minimum and a reasonable post cap for competitive games. Lift it before EOD. Might encourage less shitposting D1.

A post cap for games like the ones on the MU champs, where culture clashes are very common, is an understandable and arguably good thing. However, in all other cases, restricting the freedom of high effort players who post a lot is bad. If they spam meaningless posts, that's up to the Host to bring them back on track. If they're just prolific posters with a lot of content, it's alright. They just shouldn't expect others to post 100 posts per day because they do it, and that was my point earlier.

[theoneceko]

A post cap for games like the ones on the MU champs, where culture clashes are very common, is an understandable and arguably good thing. However, in all other cases, restricting the freedom of high effort players who post a lot is bad. If they spam meaningless posts, that's up to the Host to bring them back on track. If they're just prolific posters with a lot of content, it's alright. They just shouldn't expect others to post 100 posts per day because they do it, and that was my point earlier.

i try not to flood the thread w spam. i did "spam" some on day 4 to just lighten the mood.

i mean,two of our scum were low activity posters. owo. i don't wanna give lurkers a pass like that uMu. the only people i'd a problem with were nozbug and aami. nozbug bc she rarely gave posts w content, and aami just cuz she afk'ed uVu. superjack didn't post a lot, but his posts had content owo

[theoneceko]

also, i think there was only one person who didn't like being pushed for more activity? just wanted to point that out...

(i'm not trying to be mean to that person since i legit don't care what they did at this point.)

[theoneceko]

im surprised no one pointed this out, but Nightless is brutal. I get that there are no nightkills, but people will be burned out if there are no breaks in between days.

[secondpassing]

@Gyrlander
Thanks for hosting. It was an enjoyable game and you handled the issues this game well. Thanks for helping with the avatar too, kinda funny once ceko commented on it.

[theoneceko]

@Gyrlander
Thanks for hosting. It was an enjoyable game and you handled the issues this game well. Thanks for helping with the avatar too, kinda funny once ceko commented on it.

+1

[theoneceko]

+1

+2

[theoneceko]

+2

+3

[theoneceko]

+3

+4

[Ganelon]

It indeed didn’t.... I’m not sure what MM is referring to here.

[secondpassing]

We could just pretend that someone shamed and just say it's not really okay.

[theoneceko]

We could just pretend that someone shamed and just say it's not really okay.

+uwu

[BananaCucho]

We could just pretend that someone shamed and just say it's not really okay.

Sure, its not okay to do an exaggerated thing that doesnt happen.

It IS okay to push people that sign for a game to at least attempt to play it, which we are all in agreement on, so I guess we'll just leave it at that

[DJarJar]

Sure, its not okay to do an exaggerated thing that doesnt happen.

It IS okay to push people that sign for a game to at least attempt to play it, which we are all in agreement on, so I guess we'll just leave it at that

Our ragequits were unacceptable. And bitchy as fuck. It doesn't make it any less true that afking is a huge issue in games.

Of all 13 people playing I am 8/13 in posts. Ignoring replacements I am 7/10.
You were 5/13 and and 5/10 respectively.
For the entire game.

Something has to be done to reconcile people checking in once or twice a day vs. people posting all day. It just doesn't work with such enormous gaps in activity. Marsh please make that post you said you would about this topic, because we really need to discuss it as a community.

[naz]

Something has to be done to reconcile people checking in once or twice a day vs. people posting all day. It just doesn't work with such enormous gaps in activity. Marsh please make that post you said you would about this topic, because we really need to discuss it as a community.

I agree with you here though. The only reason why I did sign this time is bc I'm working from home and quarantined & knew I could keep up with the game. I'd like to take the discussion out of this thread, can u start the thread?🥰

[DJarJar]

I agree with you here though. The only reason why I did sign this time is bc I'm working from home and quarantined & knew I could keep up with the game. I'd like to take the discussion out of this thread, can u start the thread?🥰

I want to let marsh do it

[Ganelon]

The thing is, when people argue about something there is often an idea at the core of what they’re trying to put forward, and much of that core remains unstated clearly - because it’s very difficult to fully and clearly explain your ideas in their entirety. I would honestly argue that the game of Mafia is more about trying to figure out your beliefs about the game state and articulating them, not about convincing others.

If we could all explain our reasonings scum would win much less frequently. But human beings are imperfect.

To go back to what I was saying, there’s usually lots of different ideas floating about in ones head when making the argument that inactive = scum. For instance, when I say that you, MM, are scum and use activity to prove it, i look at your scum meta and note that you are a lot more careful about your activity as scum. What I also know is what I do as scum, random wolfy pop-ins.

They cannot simply be dismissed altogether because such arguments do sometimes work.

[theoneceko]

The thing is, when people argue about something there is often an idea at the core of what they’re trying to put forward, and much of that core remains unstated clearly - because it’s very difficult to fully and clearly explain your ideas in their entirety. I would honestly argue that the game of Mafia is more about trying to figure out your beliefs about the game state and articulating them, not about convincing others.

If we could all explain our reasonings scum would win much less frequently. But human beings are imperfect.

To go back to what I was saying, there’s usually lots of different ideas floating about in ones head when making the argument that inactive = scum. For instance, when I say that you, MM, are scum and use activity to prove it, i look at your scum meta and note that you are a lot more careful about your activity as scum. What I also know is what I do as scum, random wolfy pop-ins.

They cannot simply be dismissed altogether because such arguments do sometimes work.

nou uwu
see?exactly what iwas thinkingowo

[BananaCucho]

Sex

[theoneceko]

Sex

ex

[Ganelon]

Maybe we could have posting restrictions for ladder games?
Both on the upper and lower ends of the spectrum.

[Ganelon]

Half baked idea tho. I suspect it won’t do much to solve these problems. One thing we could do is host games that have an extremely low max post count restriction per day (something like 50 posts/player). This will force players to make larger and more well thought-out posts.

[DJarJar]

Half baked idea tho. I suspect it won’t do much to solve these problems. One thing we could do is host games that have an extremely low max post count restriction per day (something like 50 posts/player). This will force players to make larger and more well thought-out posts.

like all the other suggestions, this encourages less activity. I genuinely feel like the people caring the most, spend the most time playing, and post the most etc etc. Is there no way to satisfy that demographic? Does everything have to be about encouraging people to barely play at all?

[SuperJack]

like all the other suggestions, this encourages less activity. I genuinely feel like the people caring the most, spend the most time playing, and post the most etc etc. Is there no way to satisfy that demographic? Does everything have to be about encouraging people to barely play at all?

I care. I just can't give at much time because I have a job where I can't sit down and doss on the internet.
Also my wife and baby require attention.
It's fine asking people to be active. But some people have lives. And it's unreasonable to expect everyone to be like you or play like you.

I don't understand why people assume high post count=better game/better player. It makes the game difficult and unfun to read. You complain people don't put in enough, but you forget how difficult it is to jump back into a game after a sleep or work too find you have over 500 posts to read through, analysis and post context on, on top of still having to remain active to keep up with the instant chat like content being posted every minute.

And then you wonder why people don't partake as much.

You need to lower your expectations and get better at analysis content, so then you don't need to have so much of it.

[DJarJar]

nevermind

[SuperJack]

I care. I just can't give at much time because I have a job where I can't sit down and doss on the internet.
Also my wife and baby require attention.
It's fine asking people to be active. But some people have lives. And it's unreasonable to expect everyone to be like you or play like you.

I don't understand why people assume high post count=better game/better player. It makes the game difficult and unfun to read. You complain people don't put in enough, but you forget how difficult it is to jump back into a game after a sleep or work too find you have over 500 posts to read through, analysis and post context on, on top of still having to remain active to keep up with the instant chat like content being posted every minute.

And then you wonder why people don't partake as much.

You need to lower your expectations and get better at analysis content, so then you don't need to have so much of it.

Yet this does not excuse AFKing. If you join a game, you are taking the responsibility of taking part. If you fail to do so then you are failing all the players and the host. Wasting their time and effort which they have put in.
So if you are paying the minimum. Don't be surprised if people get angry and upset at you.

I did this during D2 & D3. I used the games emotional state to avoid participating in hoping to get away using an emotional get out of lynch card. Town had let me get away with it.
Although had I been pushed I would of pushed back.

I think what I'm trying to say is.
Sometimes people can give and expect too much.
Othertimes people can give and expect too little.

And there needs too be a middle ground and some understanding of people's situations and ability's.

There's only so much guidance a host or setup can give too this. As we should be able to accommodate different levels of play.
So it comes down to players to adapt and try and better the games.
Things like if you don't have enough time to give, don't do it then. Either make more time for the game, or become better at using the little time you have.

Or if you have too much time, find something else too do. Don't expect people too be able to get close to your levels.

[DJarJar]

Yet this does not excuse AFKing. If you join a game, you are taking the responsibility of taking part. If you fail to do so then you are failing all the players and the host. Wasting their time and effort which they have put in.
So if you are paying the minimum. Don't be surprised if people get angry and upset at you.

I did this during D2 & D3. I used the games emotional state to avoid participating in hoping to get away using an emotional get out of lynch card. Town had let me get away with it.
Although had I been pushed I would of pushed back.

I think what I'm trying to say is.
Sometimes people can give and expect too much.
Othertimes people can give and expect too little.

And there needs too be a middle ground and some understanding of people's situations and ability's.

There's only so much guidance a host or setup can give too this. As we should be able to accommodate different levels of play.
So it comes down to players to adapt and try and better the games.
Things like if you don't have enough time to give, don't do it then. Either make more time for the game, or become better at using the little time you have.

Or if you have too much time, find something else too do. Don't expect people too be able to get close to your levels.

amazing post, wholly agreed

[theoneceko]

I care. I just can't give at much time because I have a job where I can't sit down and doss on the internet.
Also my wife and baby require attention.
It's fine asking people to be active. But some people have lives. And it's unreasonable to expect everyone to be like you or play like you.

I don't understand why people assume high post count=better game/better player. It makes the game difficult and unfun to read. You complain people don't put in enough, but you forget how difficult it is to jump back into a game after a sleep or work too find you have over 500 posts to read through, analysis and post context on, on top of still having to remain active to keep up with the instant chat like content being posted every minute.

And then you wonder why people don't partake as much.

You need to lower your expectations and get better at analysis content, so then you don't need to have so much of it.

inthat insanity game, ilegit had trouble keeping up uwu. i wasn't justmaking an excuse to coast as cum owo

[theoneceko]

inthat insanity game, ilegit had trouble keeping up uwu. i wasn't justmaking an excuse to coast as cum owo

oh, and changing thenightless feature gives ppl time to catchup uwu

[theoneceko]

like all the other suggestions, this encourages less activity. I genuinely feel like the people caring the most, spend the most time playing, and post the most etc etc. Is there no way to satisfy that demographic? Does everything have to be about encouraging people to barely play at all?

this uwu.i just think we should PL the lurkers.as beenckle said, raisethe bar on ur townreads

[BananaCucho]

this uwu.i just think we should PL the lurkers.as beenckle said, raisethe bar on ur townreads

Hard to PL lurkers when they are given as pass so often. "Scum would care more here" or "they are not caring, which is a town trait" is often argued

[theoneceko]

Hard to PL lurkers when they are given as pass so often. "Scum would care more here" or "they are not caring, which is a town trait" is often argued

ye uwu.idek at this point owo

[Ganelon]

Actually... how about having not a post count restriction, but a minimum number of words per post restriction?

[naz]

Hey aamirus. I was using multiple quote replies a lot this game so using post count isn't something I think you should use to judge quality of play. If I had single replied, my post count would be higher. Marshall also did too. SJ posted every day and it was enough in his posts to show him not solving anymore which is what gave it away to me. It was your slot, which was afk for a complete day, that just confused the heck outta me and made it so hard not to angleshoot ;_;

[theoneceko]

Hey aamirus. I was using multiple quote replies a lot this game so using post count isn't something I think you should use to judge quality of play. If I had single replied, my post count would be higher. Marshall also did too. SJ posted every day and it was enough in his posts to show him not solving anymore which is what gave it away to me. It was your slot, which was afk for a complete day, that just confused the heck outta me and made it so hard not to angleshoot ;_;

gudpoint uvu. damn,so many things to consider in an FM game. can't even take post countsfor granted

[yzb25]

I haven't read the whole game so I'm sorry if I'm intruding / missing something critical. A permanent post cap would be pretty extreme, but I think playing a game with an intentionally restrictive post cap placed on players known to be very active (like 20 posts per day, lifted at EOD) and a demanding minimum post count on players known to be low activity (like 40 posts per day) would be very refreshing and insightful for people trying to adjust their activity to humane amounts. The numbers may be bad but you get the idea. I'd happily sign for that.

[yzb25]

I haven't read the whole game so I'm sorry if I'm intruding / missing something critical. A permanent post cap would be pretty extreme, but I think playing a game with an intentionally restrictive post cap placed on players known to be very active (like 20 posts per day, lifted at EOD) and a demanding minimum post count on players known to be low activity (like 30 posts per day) would be very refreshing and insightful for people trying to adjust their activity to humane amounts. The numbers may be bad but you get the idea. I'd happily sign for that.

Force all the low-activity players to try making conversation and force all the over-posters to be economic lol. It might be good for the community to experience that maybe. I've definitely felt my posting become less economic and reader-friendly over time.

[Ganelon]

I haven't read the whole game so I'm sorry if I'm intruding / missing something critical. A permanent post cap would be pretty extreme, but I think playing a game with an intentionally restrictive post cap placed on players known to be very active (like 20 posts per day, lifted at EOD) and a demanding minimum post count on players known to be low activity (like 40 posts per day) would be very refreshing and insightful for people trying to adjust their activity to humane amounts. The numbers may be bad but you get the idea. I'd happily sign for that.

Couldn’t agree more. I think what needs to happen is we need to test some of our ideas in games.
What do you think of the idea of imposing a minimum on the number of words in a post?

[BananaCucho]

Couldn’t agree more. I think what needs to happen is we need to test some of our ideas in games.
What do you think of the idea of imposing a minimum on the number of words in a post?

Ugh, who likes reading wall posts? Raise your hand if you like reading wall posts

[theoneceko]

Ugh, who likes reading wall posts? Raise your hand if you like reading wall posts

me uwu

[SuperJack]

Ugh, who likes reading wall posts? Raise your hand if you like reading wall posts

Me. As a mobile user it makes it incredibly easy for me and more fun to address and analysis, or tear apart a wallpost.

The only ones I don't like are where they contain loads of unhidden quotes.

[yzb25]

Couldn’t agree more. I think what needs to happen is we need to test some of our ideas in games.
What do you think of the idea of imposing a minimum on the number of words in a post?

In the context of that post's idea, certainly. I think such a thing is basically necessary for the group with the post cap or the whole thing would be much less meaningful lol.

Ugh, who likes reading wall posts? Raise your hand if you like reading wall posts

errr

[secondpassing]

Ugh, who likes reading wall posts? Raise your hand if you like reading wall posts

I love wall posts

[BananaCucho]

You guys are gross.

[theoneceko]

You guys are gross.

+1

[blinkskater]

One reason i dont play anymore is having to sift through hundreds of shitposts that people believe are not shitposts. I then shitpost, with the intent of shitposting, and then have to make real posts on top of the shitposts. Its a vicious circle of chasing our own tails and not very fun sorry not sorry

[theoneceko]

One reason i dont play anymore is having to sift through hundreds of shitposts that people believe are not shitposts. I then shitpost, with the intent of shitposting, and then have to make real posts on top of the shitposts. Its a vicious circle of chasing our own tails and not very fun sorry not sorry

owono u. uwu