S-FM 299: Insanity 2: the Second One, Gamethread

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Which roles should absolutely claim in the Sinisters? Surely not the pure scums (cultists, killers, witches), but I feel like the Jester King benefits from claiming (agreeing with that part of Yzb's post, just not with the host meta part). The Snitch probably does too, as he only needs to survive and can help town, but cannot really help scum much.

Thoughts, and perhaps claims?

[yzb25]

Is this host meta? Host meta of someone who didn't host in literal years? Eeeeeeeeeeewwwwww. I like the reasoning attempt, but disagree with the conclusion.

I don't see the issue with my reasoning. He will presumably be just as aware of what Calix said 4 years ago. I ain't trying to psychoanalyze him this is just common sense deduction.

No. How can someone act scummy without having anymore information than anyone else?

Unless they claim jester. Then im happy taking them out.

idk I think it's possible to hunt for neutral evils but I don't even knock you for this POV tbh LOL.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

What information? I see no information that can be gained from today other than roleclaims and play ability.

Reads still work to some extent: I can't believe every single player would be a Lunatic. Plus, the potential behavior changes or contradictions can be noted and used against scums later in the game. This would be especially useful for the Director.

[Sen]

D1 benefits in most games. But this game is far too wild and different for it to be beneficial. Forgive me for wanting to rely on more than just a random shot in the dark. The information we can gain tomorrow would be more useful. And I would rather keep one extra peep alive to work with the information, whom is more likely to be town.

A lynch helps cult, you are offering them more information to pick their first and most important conversion.

If he's more likely to be town, that means my numbers apply to his setup, so there's nothing beneficial about a D1NL. You're saying that we should not lynch while we have the numbers, and should instead give a free night to the scum before even trying to win, all while you keep mentioning a cult. If there's a cult, that only means that the town has even fewer days of control, and thus we must make the most out of each.

You also keep talking about information. What information? Witches, bus drivers, lunatics, and executioners are possible, while there's only 2 investigative roles, with one of them having a 1/3 chance of getting accurate feedback -assuming that their target wasn't affected by others-.


Leaving a bastard setup with to night actions is basically throwing a coin, which is rather sketchy, seeing how you're claiming that a D1 lynch is a "shot in the dark".

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Also, if there are any, the Cult Leaders (real or lunatic) will surely play like pure scums. After all, they can confirm their own role easily enough by trying to convert.

[Varcron]

If he's more likely to be town, that means my numbers apply to his setup, so there's nothing beneficial about a D1NL. You're saying that we should not lynch while we have the numbers, and should instead give a free night to the scum before even trying to win, all while you keep mentioning a cult. If there's a cult, that only means that the town has even fewer days of control, and thus we must make the most out of each.

You also keep talking about information. What information? Witches, bus drivers, lunatics, and executioners are possible, while there's only 2 investigative roles, with one of them having a 1/3 chance of getting accurate feedback -assuming that their target wasn't affected by others-.


Leaving a bastard setup with to night actions is basically throwing a coin, which is rather sketchy, seeing how you're claiming that a D1 lynch is a "shot in the dark".

To be honest, I wouldn't assume cult with the amount of non cult sinisters in this game.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

I don't see the issue with my reasoning. He will presumably be just as aware of what Calix said 4 years ago. I ain't trying to psychoanalyze him this is just common sense deduction.

idk I think it's possible to hunt for neutral evils but I don't even knock you for this POV tbh LOL.

Presuming someone will be aware of a specific thing that happened 4 years ago and didn't make the setup imbalanced is to be considered under very reasonable doubt in my eyes.

[Sen]

To be honest, I wouldn't assume cult with the amount of non cult sinisters in this game.

I feel the same. A cult would be highly unlikely, but even if there's one, a D1 lynch is a must.

[Sen]

Which roles should absolutely claim in the Sinisters? Surely not the pure scums (cultists, killers, witches), but I feel like the Jester King benefits from claiming (agreeing with that part of Yzb's post, just not with the host meta part). The Snitch probably does too, as he only needs to survive and can help town, but cannot really help scum much.

Thoughts, and perhaps claims?

Jester King, Jesters -with a lynch win condition-, Sleuths, and Executioners would all benefit from claiming at some point and siding with the Town.

[Varcron]

Jester King, Jesters -with a lynch win condition-, Sleuths, and Executioners would all benefit from claiming at some point and siding with the Town.

But they can change to scum side, that's the problem.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

There’s a relatively high chance that scum will be scum... I doubt DW would give scum rolecards to town

Host meta, and probably wrong lol, that's the fun of the setup XD

I don't feel so good about Ganelon this game, but I don't know why.

-vote Ganelon

L-3. I wouldn't want to have it go past that for now, though.

[Sen]

But they can change to scum side, that's the problem.

How so? Cultists can't convert sinisters.

[SuperJack]

Reads still work to some extent: I can't believe every single player would be a Lunatic. Plus, the potential behavior changes or contradictions can be noted and used against scums later in the game. This would be especially useful for the Director.

No, reads won't work. You're mistaking it with reading their grammar. what you gonna read from them? They posted about bread on D1 which shows they are cats?

There is no information on D1 to contridict. What opinions coils change from D1 on a day like this? Nothing. today is a blank and burning a blank book is a waste of potential.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

I've had a LOT of time to think about this game. This is one of the most crucial points I've reached. Being able to read towniness is the only thing I'm proud of and now I feel like it doesn't matter at all

I have been fooled in the past by Gyrlander, so I'll be careful this time. That being said, this looks like town reasoning (and I share that feeling partially, just that I don't think it doesn't matter at all, only a bit less).

[BananaCucho]

Oh this thing started

Hi I'm banana, and I like to party

[BananaCucho]

I'm going to try something new this game

[BananaCucho]

Thats the phrase right? @Pringles

[yzb25]

Presuming someone will be aware of a specific thing that happened 4 years ago and didn't make the setup imbalanced is to be considered under very reasonable doubt in my eyes.

Bro they hosted the setup together and at the end she posted this as her end-of-game thoughts. They presumably discussed it in private too. He doesn't need to remember the conversation, I'm just saying the dude will have acted on the feedback. The other points that she made ("escort shouldn't give feedback", "add more random anys") were actually added, meaning he has heeded the advice. This wasn't some random post a player made in the thread. You're making this sound so much more obscure than it is.

[BananaCucho]

This game instead of forming the banana alliance, I am accepting applications for the banana scum core who I'll tunnel all game and only vote for them

Who wants to be in it?

[SuperJack]

If he's more likely to be town, that means my numbers apply to his setup, so there's nothing beneficial about a D1NL. You're saying that we should not lynch while we have the numbers, and should instead give a free night to the scum before even trying to win, all while you keep mentioning a cult. If there's a cult, that only means that the town has even fewer days of control, and thus we must make the most out of each.

You also keep talking about information. What information? Witches, bus drivers, lunatics, and executioners are possible, while there's only 2 investigative roles, with one of them having a 1/3 chance of getting accurate feedback -assuming that their target wasn't affected by others-.


Leaving a bastard setup with to night actions is basically throwing a coin, which is rather sketchy, seeing how you're claiming that a D1 lynch is a "shot in the dark".

I'm saying that if we have more town to work together tomorrow when we have information, that's we will more likely be able to come to a more beneficial lynch.
If there is a cult, we need more numbers earlier to be able to keep their influence at an all time low. More brain powe tomorrow, the more and better scum hunting can take place.

More cogs help the wheel of scum hunting turning faster.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

No, reads won't work. You're mistaking it with reading their grammar. what you gonna read from them? They posted about bread on D1 which shows they are cats?

There is no information on D1 to contridict. What opinions coils change from D1 on a day like this? Nothing. today is a blank and burning a blank book is a waste of potential.

You're right: if we all consider this an useless day, it will become an useless day. But if we give reads and thoughts, and that players then recieve confirmations from power roles like the Director tonight, we can start seeing changes on the next days. We can also see the targeting intents of players, helping us uncover people's roles. Completely barring D1 lynch always kills D1 activity, and it often carries on to the next days.

[BananaCucho]

Is there anything worth reading in the FIRST 5 PAGES HOLY FUCK

[Sen]

No, reads won't work. You're mistaking it with reading their grammar. what you gonna read from them? They posted about bread on D1 which shows they are cats?

There is no information on D1 to contridict. What opinions coils change from D1 on a day like this? Nothing. today is a blank and burning a blank book is a waste of potential.

False. Even a random lynch is better than a NLD1. Mafia isn't about information or counterclaims. If that was the case, vanilla setups -the original and most played by far- wouldn't exist. Leaving the game up to "information" in a bastard setup is basically the same as playing the SC2 mod, which is a fuckfest in part because of people doing nothing during the day and then just sheeping nonsense trains based on night "information".

Pushing this hard for NLD1 does nothing but harm to the town. If you wanted a NL, that's something to be said when the day is about to end, not at the start when votes and threats of lynching can be used to generate discussion.

You've been playing this for long enough to be well aware of these things.

-vote SuperJack

[SuperJack]

This game instead of forming the banana alliance, I am accepting applications for the banana scum core who I'll tunnel all game and only vote for them

Who wants to be in it?

I'm in

[BananaCucho]

Ganelon (4 [L-3]):
Frinckles, SuperJack, Sen, Marshmallow Marshall

Wtf is this garbage? Why's my boy Galeon being hit like this

[Frinckles]

Is there anything worth reading in the FIRST 5 PAGES HOLY FUCK

No.

[BananaCucho]

False. Even a random lynch is better than a NLD1. Mafia isn't about information or counterclaims. If that was the case, vanilla setups -the original and most played by far- wouldn't exist. Leaving the game up to "information" in a bastard setup is basically the same as playing the SC2 mod, which is a fuckfest in part because of people doing nothing during the day and then just sheeping nonsense trains based on night "information".

Pushing this hard for NLD1 does nothing but harm to the town. If you wanted a NL, that's something to be said when the day is about to end, not at the start when votes and threats of lynching can be used to generate discussion.

You've been playing this for long enough to be well aware of these things.

-vote SuperJack

Yuck, why would legit scum SJ say something like this? Legit scum SJ would be sneaky

Don't like this vote. Welcome back btw

[BananaCucho]

No.

This is probably the ugliest avatar I've seen you don. Never remove it

BTW wanna power wolf this game with me? We work well together lol

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Bro they hosted the setup together and at the end she posted this as her end-of-game thoughts. They presumably discussed it in private too. He doesn't need to remember the conversation, I'm just saying the dude will have acted on the feedback. The other points that she made ("escort shouldn't give feedback", "add more random anys") were actually added, meaning he has heeded the advice. This wasn't some random post a player made in the thread. You're making this sound so much more obscure than it is.

Hmm, fair, I doubt a bit less now. Still holding reasonable doubt towards what STILL is host meta: you're assuming he would have listened to Calix on that point in a relatively bastard setup, when it's not the only crazy setup he has hosted. A statistic close to 100 % in my experience shows that assumptions about the host are nearly always wrong when they aren't like "he wouldn't dare putting 5 vigilantes in this setup lol".

[Varcron]

How so? Cultists can't convert sinisters.

What I mean is that townies can switch to scum side as lunatics

[BananaCucho]

I'm not scum so I havent read the setup yet

Feel free to meta me with that in the future

[Frinckles]

This is probably the ugliest avatar I've seen you don. Never remove it

BTW wanna power wolf this game with me? We work well together lol

I don't really have the time to allocate to that this game but its a lovely offer.

As for the avatar, slight adjustment to the spray can to make it 10/10

[Varcron]

I'm in

I'm in too lol

[Sen]

Yuck, why would legit scum SJ say something like this? Legit scum SJ would be sneaky

Don't like this vote. Welcome back btw

Thank you. (: Nice to see you and other familiar faces around, and to get to meet all of the new people.

As for SJ, I don't do meta reads. It never ends well. There's rarely a valid reason to NL, and this isn't the exception. Pushing for NL and basically calling the day a useless waste of time is in no way beneficial. To the town, that is.

If you don't like the vote, then place one of your own and explain why that's a better candidate.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

False. Even a random lynch is better than a NLD1. Mafia isn't about information or counterclaims. If that was the case, vanilla setups -the original and most played by far- wouldn't exist. Leaving the game up to "information" in a bastard setup is basically the same as playing the SC2 mod, which is a fuckfest in part because of people doing nothing during the day and then just sheeping nonsense trains based on night "information".

Pushing this hard for NLD1 does nothing but harm to the town. If you wanted a NL, that's something to be said when the day is about to end, not at the start when votes and threats of lynching can be used to generate discussion.

You've been playing this for long enough to be well aware of these things.

-vote SuperJack

I think he has also been playing long enough to know saying such a thing would put him in a bad light to most players, and for this reason, even though I think he's totally wrong, I have a mild-medium townread on him. I don't really like this vote.

Also, you seem to have mistaken my use of information. I meant information given from chat, not night action """"leads"""". Night actions in this setup are horribly unreliable unless they give role-specific feedback to the target.

[Varcron]

I think he has also been playing long enough to know saying such a thing would put him in a bad light to most players, and for this reason, even though I think he's totally wrong, I have a mild-medium townread on him. I don't really like this vote.

Also, you seem to have mistaken my use of information. I meant information given from chat, not night action """"leads"""". Night actions in this setup are horribly unreliable unless they give role-specific feedback to the target.

You're acting like townie MM again, I like it.

[Sen]

What I mean is that townies can switch to scum side as lunatics

Very slim chance, and a player switching won't make a difference if benigns and town work as a united front from the start.

It's way more likely that someone with a scum rolecard is town than the other way around. All town and benign rolecards shoul be pushing town's goals, and scum rolecards should be wary, as there's a good chance that they are actually townies.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Thank you. (: Nice to see you and other familiar faces around, and to get to meet all of the new people.

As for SJ, I don't do meta reads. It never ends well. There's rarely a valid reason to NL, and this isn't the exception. Pushing for NL and basically calling the day a useless waste of time is in no way beneficial. To the town, that is.

If you don't like the vote, then place one of your own and explain why that's a better candidate.

Oh, Banana said the same thing

It's not about meta, but about logic. SJ is experienced, that's for sure, and that's what matters.

[SuperJack]

False. Even a random lynch is better than a NLD1. Mafia isn't about information or counterclaims. If that was the case, vanilla setups -the original and most played by far- wouldn't exist. Leaving the game up to "information" in a bastard setup is basically the same as playing the SC2 mod, which is a fuckfest in part because of people doing nothing during the day and then just sheeping nonsense trains based on night "information".

Pushing this hard for NLD1 does nothing but harm to the town. If you wanted a NL, that's something to be said when the day is about to end, not at the start when votes and threats of lynching can be used to generate discussion.

You've been playing this for long enough to be well aware of these things.

-vote SuperJack

Note that I also said leaving one to live the next day creates more brains for scum hunting. With possible deaths/conversions/feedback all available to provide a start on working.

Once again you jump back to basic mafia which have an informed minority. Yet this game is not that.

Are you trying to figure out the best people to get onto your team? Or do you want to push a lynch onto someone of your choice?

Yeh I must be rusty. Been a while, must of forgotten how to play day 1.

[BananaCucho]

Thank you. (: Nice to see you and other familiar faces around, and to get to meet all of the new people.

As for SJ, I don't do meta reads. It never ends well. There's rarely a valid reason to NL, and this isn't the exception. Pushing for NL and basically calling the day a useless waste of time is in no way beneficial. To the town, that is.

If you don't like the vote, then place one of your own and explain why that's a better candidate.

Bruh I havent read shit yet. I aint votin yet

BTW I read it as NAI from SJ. Its anti town but not scummy

[Marshmallow Marshall]

This game instead of forming the banana alliance, I am accepting applications for the banana scum core who I'll tunnel all game and only vote for them

Who wants to be in it?

I think I'll pass on this one maybe in as a reserve just in case you need someone, but nothing more.

[Varcron]

Very slim chance, and a player switching won't make a difference if benigns and town work as a united front from the start.

It's way more likely that someone with a scum rolecard is town than the other way around. All town and benign rolecards shoul be pushing town's goals, and scum rolecards should be wary, as there's a good chance that they are actually townies.

I don't really care how slim the chance is

There is still a chance that someone can flip to scum

[Sen]

I think he has also been playing long enough to know saying such a thing would put him in a bad light to most players, and for this reason, even though I think he's totally wrong, I have a mild-medium townread on him. I don't really like this vote.

Also, you seem to have mistaken my use of information. I meant information given from chat, not night action """"leads"""". Night actions in this setup are horribly unreliable unless they give role-specific feedback to the target.

I'm talking about SJs use of "information"; he claims that we will have way more on D2 after a NL, which obviously makes no sense whatsoever, since calling for D1NL is inviting to a lurkfest and, like you say, night actions are as unreliable as it gets.

[Frinckles]

Superjack is about to whoop some wifom ass and I will not be apart of it.

[BananaCucho]

I'm in too lol

No way, I wanna pocket you instead ;)

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Note that I also said leaving one to live the next day creates more brains for scum hunting. With possible deaths/conversions/feedback all available to provide a start on working.

Once again you jump back to basic mafia which have an informed minority. Yet this game is not that.

Are you trying to figure out the best people to get onto your team? Or do you want to push a lynch onto someone of your choice?

Yeh I must be rusty. Been a while, must of forgotten how to play day 1.

Yeah, you're so old that your green girl avatar has become an old man

[Marshmallow Marshall]

I'm talking about SJs use of "information"; he claims that we will have way more on D2 after a NL, which obviously makes no sense whatsoever, since calling for D1NL is inviting to a lurkfest and, like you say, night actions are as unreliable as it gets.

I think he meant something else, but I'll let him say it himself.

Also, what do you mean about SJ WIFOMing, Frinckles?

[theoneceko]

He can change playstyles like he changes clothes, be careful of him.

PSYCHOPATH!!UwU.

[BananaCucho]

This game is happening too fast. My kids wont put their pjs on and I blame you guys for me losing focus

[SuperJack]

Superjack is about to whoop some wifom ass and I will not be apart of it.

Fight me.