Mafia shooting known Witch

[RMcD94]

What is the opinion on this? When the Mafia basically cause the Witch to lose. Say the Witch and Mafia are at a majority, 2 Mafia, 1 Witch, 1 town. The mafia that night kill the Witch who they know is the Witch via evidence and generally voting with mafia or something like that.

So what's that classified as? The Witch wins with Mafia, she ends up almost always having to reveal.

[Archangel69]

The witch is a threat to mafia, one time it took over a vigilante and killed the disguiser, it is a threat.

[RMcD94]

The witch is a threat to mafia, one time it took over a vigilante and killed the disguiser, it is a threat.

I agree that in many cases it is called for, but the scenario I posited was near the end of the game, where the Witch is not threat and works with the mafia, openly even.

[Luna]

It's not really classified as anything really. It's dishonourable but not game-throwing or anything. The Mafia might even suspect the Witch is a Townie doing some serious WIFOM.

The rule here is that people are bastards.

[wolfcheese]

Sometimes the witch is not mafia's side. The witch might want to try to win with an arsonist or serial killer, and the mafia should kill the witch for that. Personally I would think siding with mafia is the smartest choice, but it depends on what actually happens in the game.

[Lysergic]

I agree that in many cases it is called for, but the scenario I posited was near the end of the game, where the Witch is not threat and works with the mafia, openly even.

3 mafia, 1 town, 1 witch.

Witch control mafia killing role, kills the other non-GF mafia role. During the day, Witch sides with town to prevent a lynch from occurring. That night, Witch controls GF, kills the third mafia member. During the day, the Witch and townie lynch the Godfather. Witch wins the 1v1. Solo victory for Witch.

Witch is ALWAYS a threat to the Mafia. I personally LOVE fucking over an arrogant Mafia towards the end of a game. If Witch wants to win, he or she should control the Mafia killing role and FORCE the Mafia to kill the correct target. In the case above, the Witch was an idiot for being revealed and thinking the Mafia would not kill him/her. Witch has the power to MAKE the outcome he or she wants.

There's a reason why Witch is a neutral role, not a Mafia one.

[BruceCampbell]

Witch and Survivor have one very important facet most people don't realize:
They can add to the mafia's available votes, giving them majority a day earlier than town thinks.

In both cases, this requires surviving, as well as knowing the exact time to reveal that you're voting along with the mafia, let's end this fucking game.

Survivors have it a little easier- they don't HAVE to watch the town die, just survive. Witches have to see the town dead, which explicitly means working with Mafia or the SK, or even the cult.

[Ash]

Witch and Survivor have one very important facet most people don't realize:
Survivors have it a little easier- they don't HAVE to watch the town die, just survive. Witches have to see the town dead, which explicitly means working with Mafia or the SK, or even the cult.

90% of the time an average dumb witch player causes more harm to Mafia than Town.
True fact.

[Lysergic]

90% of the time an average dumb witch player causes more harm to Mafia than Town.
True fact.

VERY true fact.

A recent game I played, the Witch redirected the Mafia kill into an obvious target that got healed TWICE, and then into a target that got protected by a Bodyguard the SAME night the target I selected WAS the bodyguard. As Mafia, a Witch is a HUGE liability unless they know what they are doing.

[Ash]

Mafia shooting witch is like saying Vigilante/Jailor killing trolly ass motherfucker mayor.

[Muso]

Just because witch and mafia can win together does not change the fact that they do not come from the same team.

If I'm mafia with a witch present, I'll kill or let live a witch solely depending on how well they've played the game so far.

[humodz]

Once I was playing GF, I couln't kill for 2~3 days because there was a (known) witch playing, but we coudln't get rid of him/her because we would lose vote majority

[Jester]

I reported a very similar situation (but flopped, witch won and voted off the last mafia member) as my first post on here and it was rejected because it's just being a dick basically, but its not against the game technically.

[Sookie]

Witch is ALWAYS a threat to the Mafia. I personally LOVE fucking over an arrogant Mafia towards the end of a game. If Witch wants to win, he or she should control the Mafia killing role and FORCE the Mafia to kill the correct target. In the case above, the Witch was an idiot for being revealed and thinking the Mafia would not kill him/her. Witch has the power to MAKE the outcome he or she wants.

i have to disagree. the witches goal is to ensure that the town loses, so it is in the best interest for the witch to work with the mafia, as they are often the strongest none town faction to work with.

The Witch is my favorite role, and i often win a majority of the games i play as a witch. playing a witch trying to "help" the mafia without getting in their way or being found out by the town or the mafia is tricky. while yes the witch can side with whom ever she chooses, but if you ask me a witch working against the mafia from the get go, or trying to be greedy and win solo is a moron.

now as far as the mafia goes, it can be hard to tell if the witch in your game is dumb, working against you, working for you or if it really is a witch or not. when i play as mafia and i think someone is a which, i try to encourage the other mafia not to mess with it. unless it obviously begins to get in the way. because in reality it is likely another vote in your favor, assuming its a smart witch.

[Lazers]

Equivalent to mafia shooting the Survivor

no one cares about neutrals ingame. fuck em

[Bazar]

There is nothing wrong with it.
Its stated, maifa are only out for themselves, they don't give a damned over the witch.

While sad taht they deny the witch a win, its within the rules.

[Jester]

There is nothing wrong with it.
Its stated, maifa are only out for themselves, they don't give a damned over the witch.

While sad taht they deny the witch a win, its within the rules.

Yea, mafia tends to be douches. And I just played a match with you man.

[RMcD94]

Interesting read, lots of interesting points. I guess you guys are right in that people are dicks and don't want other people to win with them, and also the idea that the Witch could kill the mafia. I guess it annoys me that if that becomes the normal, the Mafia killing the Witch or vica versa, you get the meta changing so that they stop working together and so the whole balance of the game is thrown off.

I mean I'm pretty sure it's designed that the Witch only wants town to die, so this is at least meant to make them not try and kill the Mafia. But if the Mafia was likely going to kill the Witch (out of fear perhaps), because the Witch can kill Mafia then the Witch might as well kill the Mafia.

[cookies4you]

Witch = Bitch = Annoying = Jester = Evil

The Witch is a wild card during late games, especially when there are killing roles.

[Raptorblaze]

I hate witches "Trololololol Yep I'm witch, helping town" Do they not understand what the fuck a witch's role is meant to do?

[Ash]

One thing I hate is when dumb witches always control someone to target themselves. Happened to me once, and died.

[cookies4you]

One thing I hate is when dumb witches always control someone to target themselves. Happened to me once, and died.

As I stated before, I made a Witch target herself while she did the same to me. Almost as hilarious when I went Veteran and wiped out half the players along with the Godfather and the Neutral.

[HotShotX]

Here's my plan/experience when playing as Witch:

1a. If Witch is in role lost, stay quiet, play normally.
1b. If Witch is not in role list, announce Day 1 as Survivor and request to be left alone in exchange for not voting until the end.

2. If targets know they are witches, literally don't do anything all game.

3. To date, mafia has always killed me in the end, unless the SK beats them to it.

Witch is the only role I have left to win with. Recently, every time I have tried the above strategy, Magia goes out of their way to kill me.

~HotShotX

[Lysergic]

That's because you claim Survivor on day 1.

It's very easy for Mafia to test whether or not someone is Survivor. They just kill them. If they die, not Survivor.

You shouldn't announce being Survivor unless you ARE Survivor and can back it up with bulletproof vests.

[Ubernox]

I saw a Witch side with a towny in 1 town 1 mafia 1 witch end-game setup. He did this so that he could get the "Witch wins" screen, which was pretty awesome.

[Lysergic]

I saw a Witch side with a towny in 1 town 1 mafia 1 witch end-game setup. He did this so that he could get the "Witch wins" screen, which was pretty awesome.

Yeah, I've done that a few times. It's great when the last towny thinks that Witch can win with them and gets super happy about it, only to see the Witch victory screen. xD

[Shparky]

I hate witches "Trololololol Yep I'm witch, helping town" Do they not understand what the fuck a witch's role is meant to do?

There's a very scent of reason why it says "Trololol." It's really not against the rules or anything. It's just that in some cases even working with Town can help Witch achieve victory, as said in the Lysergic's post.

[MagmaRam]

90% of the time an average dumb witch player causes more harm to Mafia than Town.
True fact.

The same way that an average dumb bus driver screws over sheriffs/investigators and an average dumb town killing role invariably kills the Town power roles? (Especially the Vig, moreso than the jailor who's at least capable of asking for role.