like how I pointed out that Frog's play wasn't scum-motivated; it was highly trolly; nay, it was so trolly that it was pretty evident his main purpose was in "acting like the god of fm" (or so it seemed to me).
The purpose of his play that I got from it (because ive played with multiple people with that same style, wofly being 1 of them), was that he was trying to get info. he subbed into the game late, had 0 info. so he jumped in to stir shit up and start getting reads. yeah, he went completely overboard, but meta is the reason i townread him for it. I do not believe he joined to intentionally fuck the game up. so that rules out that. He is also well respected on MU community, and a very good player there, so i know hes not dumb. It sounds like u havnt encountered that style yet, so you dont have a meta based read on what to think of it yet.
his main purpose wasnt to be a god. his main purpose was to find scum and get information. he just happened to ACT egotistical in the process. thats why meta reads is valueble. u have more than just "their current mood" as a read.
Last edited by Distorted; November 27th, 2018 at 01:53 PM.
yup. i didnt say his play was pro town lol he went overboard =P but if he toned it down a bit, stirring things up is great. gets people to reevaluate their reads. i was honestly nervous as hell when he came in. started trying to watch what i would say ect ect, that left me open to slips.
I think this ↑ pretty much sums up the credibility behind meta reading. Because even in these sports they know they are being studied, they know the people are going to try to change up styles due to that, but yet they still spend countless hours trying to find those patterns. They want to be able to recognize the subtle things that slip out or that the person doesnt change.
sc2 for example, certain micro tactics during game-ending battles. Football games, certain coaches like to do risky game-ending plays when not necessary. In Mafia, they are under pressure and start becoming defensive, or offensive. sure maybe they can change it once, but mix that with how they pressure people, how relaxed they seem, how active they are, how much they put themself in the spotlight, how committed they tunnel people, how much they vote, do they bus their own teammates? I mean the list goes on and on. changing ALL of that is not an easy thing to do lol they will slip
Then, after playing with countless people, u start to learn what the most common slips are. what the least common are. town slips, scum slips. and u almost form a subconcous "odds" calculator in ur mind when u see those, and we refer to those as "gut reads", which are meta based as well just we dont know what exact situation they come from.
ok think that about ends my rant on meta. been wanting to comment something about meta for awhile lol think ive had this built up for a bit
the points are you raise are sound, but it doesn't change the fact that meta reads are, very often, wrong.
how often have you been right about someone's meta?
You do realize I ment all those bad things to happen. Notice my change from d1 to d2. When slalom posted about me bing a newb and not a good player. I latched on to that hard and played that role. Mike is to stupid to be scum. It gave me the perfect cover. And as I said before I am not going to play the same every game. This way no true meta can be used on me.
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lol saying its about "pathos ethos and logos" is like sayings its about emotion, logic, and spirituality. what else is there? literally. thats why those terms are taught in writing 101 =P they are teaching basics in those classes.
but, meta speaks ;) welcome back lol
that's amazing! I avoid meta reads as often as I can because mine are usually wrong. my "logical" reads as I like to call them are, however, very often accurate. they certainly incorporate a bit of meta, but as I'm posting this I realize that maybe I don't necessarily have a problem with meta per-se, just with unexplainable/unexplained reads like "this player is scum because he's afk and he's not usually afk as town " fuck that kind of shit. when you instead have something like "this player did something uncharacteristic of him, and his representation of the game has him aim towards those things. and such others as town, and this is how he achieves them", I can respect that.
but gut reads are not always good. It's literally possible to construct a perfectly identical scum-meta as town, and vice-versa. it's not, however, possible, EVER, to be perfectly towny as scum. because it means you are gamethrowing if that's the case.
Frog has also been banned 3 months in 2017 on MU and indefinitely banned on MU's Discord
Thank you Anonymous Donor
I townread him for meta =P you'll notice that at the end of the game, I actually mentioned there was a slight possibility he was scum, because he inno'd Damus. anyway, I have an axe to grind against meta reads, because I find them utterly despicable.sure, they should be part of your analysis, but not the only part.
yes, we all know ur opinion on meta.
https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showth...eta-Game-Reads
lol
it's impossible to be perfectly towny as scum because it would violate the laws of thermodynamics. you can't have a perfect process that doesn't heat up. the "heating up" in this context is your increasingly elaborate fakeness. it's bound to show at one point.
Wow, I was reading the scum chat. From the start I was Mafia number 1 victom lol. Then Distorted wasn't to fake a LW a fake scum chat Put Mine and Voss name and Fram us. LOL That would have been interesting.
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if you want a strong advocate against meta reads, go for PTB =P guy is scummy as both town and mafia
@Distorted
please. what does that thread have to do with me . . .. . . im so lost
Damus Thank you for the stuff you said about me in Dead chat and also to you Distorted Thank you.
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@Everyone don't forget to look at distorted
title under name privilage for the next game
theres a heading under the name
Look there.
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GG everyone btw. @blinkskater I understand that you were pulling a play on D1... but it doesn't make what you did righteous you still played very well, though.
This was a lot of fun.
Also, about Frog: I get that his playstyle could be annoying at times, but it's NOT A REASON to trash talk, from both sides. He didn't troll; he was trying to gather info.
Distorted is right about meta, btw. I don't say put meta everywhere; but did you notice how everyone who ignores meta is absolutely unable to read Light_Yagami? I have a 100% success rate on reading him. I'm not saying I'm the God of FM (Actually very far from it, as you could see this game lol), but I'm saying meta IS important.
To come back to Frog. He has trash talked a bit; yet several people have hit on him much more than they should have. It ended up being sad for everyone, he was modkilled because he replaced out without any replacements around. So, what is there to learn from that? Don't be harsh. If someone is being harsh to you, don't fuel the fire. This shouldn't even be seen as alignment indicative, simply as being a good sport.
no itl show in other ways to. or else games wouldent be solvable without meta. but meta is the strongest form of reads. there is others as well, but once u develop meta on people and on game patterns, those become the heaviest players in your reads.
How do you even know something is scummy? because you saw a scum do it before so u will be skeptical next time you see it. Game experience is meta as well.
depends. if we have 3 people not reading a game, and 2 more skimming it and they have to make a decision to lynch someone. having a chat with over 2k+ posts filled with conversations of crepes and international traveling throughout it, telling people to stick to talking about relevant stuff only i see as pro town. it removes spam and declutters so people can better read the game content.
Last edited by Distorted; November 27th, 2018 at 04:00 PM.
how having a chat filled with non-game related spam is pro town is beyond me. even if it was all game content, how is having 2k+ posts that nobody will read and catch up on pro town? would rather compact the amount of posts so everyone could read. rather than having 1 or 2 ppl read and paraphrase it for the rest.
Last edited by Distorted; November 27th, 2018 at 04:26 PM.
Last edited by Distorted; November 27th, 2018 at 04:26 PM.
AND the not talking was only suggested because the judge asked someone to write it all down xD so that makes it so someone has to read all 2k of those posts, then write it down. and then explain it to him in detail the next day..... that sounds miserable lol