The status of SC2 Mafia FM, and how we can (and must) improve it

[SuperJack]

The largest problem you have is that this sites new player traffic comes from people who play starcraft 2, and then play the mafia mod on it, and then follow to the website.

The solutions are:

1).Find a new game to create a mod on

Which, is difficult & unlikely to happen. (Perhaps the Command & Conquer game in development?)

2).Drag people in to play

This means, making friends in game and inviting them.
Getting active forum users to play forum mafia.
Bringing in people from elsewhere.
Put up a poster at your local community centre asking people to join the Mafia.




So yeh, Unless you get a group of people actively working to bring people into the forum mafia. Its going to remain as a small group of loyal individuals.

Only once you have a reasonable sized player base then its worth developing the site further. Unless someone wants to throw wads of cash at it.

[Kovath]

The largest problem you have is that this sites new player traffic comes from people who play starcraft 2, and then play the mafia mod on it, and then follow to the website.

The solutions are:

1).Find a new game to create a mod on

Which, is difficult & unlikely to happen. (Perhaps the Command & Conquer game in development?)

2).Drag people in to play

This means, making friends in game and inviting them.
Getting active forum users to play forum mafia.
Bringing in people from elsewhere.
Put up a poster at your local community centre asking people to join the Mafia.




So yeh, Unless you get a group of people actively working to bring people into the forum mafia. Its going to remain as a small group of loyal individuals.

Only once you have a reasonable sized player base then its worth developing the site further. Unless someone wants to throw wads of cash at it.

There's that ofc but there's also attrition of the existing player base and it's not always just RL

idk Banana I was pretty sleep-addled as well

[Marshmallow Marshall]

I don't remember posting this

The largest problem you have is that this sites new player traffic comes from people who play starcraft 2, and then play the mafia mod on it, and then follow to the website.

The solutions are:

1).Find a new game to create a mod on

Which, is difficult & unlikely to happen. (Perhaps the Command & Conquer game in development?)

2).Drag people in to play

This means, making friends in game and inviting them.
Getting active forum users to play forum mafia.
Bringing in people from elsewhere.
Put up a poster at your local community centre asking people to join the Mafia.

So yeh, Unless you get a group of people actively working to bring people into the forum mafia. Its going to remain as a small group of loyal individuals.

Only once you have a reasonable sized player base then its worth developing the site further. Unless someone wants to throw wads of cash at it.

I know you all think "No, we tried before!!" whenever people say this, but... we need to recruit on other sites. It's absolutely possible to do so. However, what can be fixed on the site without having to throw money at it should be fixed so that the site is as welcoming as possible. We cannot just wait for people from the mod to agree to join us; plus, that cultivates a stale site meta. Having people from different communities makes the site more enjoyable for everyone, including the people who didn't join yet but will eventually do so

[SuperJack]

When you say other websites
What do you mean?

[BananaCucho]

When you say other websites
What do you mean?

www.leekspin.com

[Marshmallow Marshall]

When you say other websites
What do you mean?

Other forum mafia communities, like MafiaUniverse, Mafiascum, smaller ones too.

[naz]

we had people come from other sites but forum/game rules aren't enforced and turns people away. it took u guys until efe's like 50th ladder game to give him a game ban, and it was just a ladder game ban. i don't sign when he or other players that make the game Not Fun are playing.
the rules don't have to be hard or cringey but at least enforced..

[Varcron]

we had people come from other sites but forum/game rules aren't enforced and turns people away. it took u guys until efe's like 50th ladder game to give him a game ban, and it was just a ladder game ban. i don't sign when he or other players that make the game Not Fun are playing.
the rules don't have to be hard or cringey but at least enforced..

I agree, we need a better enforcement policy when it comes to trolls and such in FM.

[Voss]

we had people come from other sites but forum/game rules aren't enforced and turns people away. it took u guys until efe's like 50th ladder game to give him a game ban, and it was just a ladder game ban. i don't sign when he or other players that make the game Not Fun are playing.
the rules don't have to be hard or cringey but at least enforced..

This is good feedback. Thanks naz.

[BananaCucho]

I WANNA PUT SOME WOLVES IN A BOX

[Marshmallow Marshall]

we had people come from other sites but forum/game rules aren't enforced and turns people away. it took u guys until efe's like 50th ladder game to give him a game ban, and it was just a ladder game ban. i don't sign when he or other players that make the game Not Fun are playing.
the rules don't have to be hard or cringey but at least enforced..

Indeed. That's something the FM team will continue to work on. That being said, I'd say game quality has recently improved.

Also, it would seem that the nature of the Greylist is unclear for a lot of people, and that the way rules are applied is too.
The Greylist has two consequences on the players that are on it.
- First consequence: they are banned from participating to Ladder games.
- Second consequence: they cannot publicly sign for games without privately asking the Host of the game for permission to do so; the Host may decline those signs for any reason including none; in such cases, the greylisted player is to stay away from the game.

In other words, it's up to the community to decide if the greylisted members can or cannot play the non-ladder games on a case by case basis. If greylisted members participate in games, if the community accepts them and if they follow the rules, they are on the road to be un-greylisted. On the contrary, if the community does not accept them or if they do not follow the rules, they will simply be banned from FM games, de facto in the first case and officially banned in the second case.

If you feel there are issues with a player's behavior in-game, feel free to talk about it privately to FM staff or to use the forum's report tool after the game if all FM staff members are participating in the game (not during the game, to avoid unintentional out of game communication); you may however privately contact the host while the game is ongoing if you think a warning or an action needs to be taken in-game. FM staff will handle the post-game discipline, and will consider serious and righteous reports as aggravating factors.

This enforcement policy against trolls involves the community. Unlike ±1 year ago when there was no FM staff, there is now a team to address rule enforcement concerns. Although FM staff will handle rulebreaking by itself, it is up to the members to call to that team when they feel like they need to. This ability to self-police is what allows the community to not be dictatorial and to run smoothly.


Summary: If you believe a member is breaking the rules, you may report them. It's part of the community's self-policing ability, and should be used when it's deemed necessary.

[secondpassing]

I feel like moderation is perfectly fine where it is. Besides, a bit of drama is usually kind of fun.


I also feel like the people who play FM are just a community, I mean I was kind of bound to come back because this place feels kinda homey? Like I don't know you all, but at least I know all the personas you put up. The combinations of those personas creates this kind of atmosphere that's different than like vendatta strata (everyone was really honest) and MU, where everyone is so fake it's just kind of normal. Here there's this sort of deception, but always a bit of realness thrown in there. Like how when people get mad in FM games, they are really frustrated.

Anyway, it seems that new people are actually welcomed quite warmly here, if we welcome more they eventually come back anyway.

[rumox]

Yeah the shtick people utilize to play the game in other communities where they are incredibly linear and have no personality is boring. They are hamstringing themselves to protect their scum games. Can't be metaread as scum if you are as dull as rocks every game. How boring.

[Ganelon]

I agree, it’s one of the things I hate about that site. And how they’re so close-knit and unfriendly towards newcomers lol.

[naz]

up until recently there was no where/one to report shit in fm games. i used to just personally not let Efe or hybrid play games i hosted because i knew they were just policy lynches/modkills. imagine that being your meta on this site lmao like that's how bad it was. but other people that hosted wouldn't do the same because they didn't know or just wanted their games to fill. we can't even fill the current game now in a pandemic skfnsndnd

MM you say "FM staff" and I just checked the staff list...FM Staff is just you and Aivion? So basically just you lol

I think maybe next project to work towards is a fuller-bodied FM staff :3 it should be people who have played here and understand this site's meta/culture but part of the appeal for bringing in players would be to have them be a part of the staff:?

just a thought

[AIVION]

I exist I just don't necessarily get the chance to be fully active and I generally sometimes forget or don't get around to being in here much and I regret that... I truly am sorry and I will try my best to be more active in the community. I sill do things in the background regarding FM ordeals but I'll make it more here.

[BananaCucho]

@MattZed

[BananaCucho]

I miss @Orpz

[naz]

I exist I just don't necessarily get the chance to be fully active and I generally sometimes forget or don't get around to being in here much and I regret that... I truly am sorry and I will try my best to be more active in the community. I sill do things in the background regarding FM ordeals but I'll make it more here.

either way, asking 2 people to volunteer their time to be full-time FM staff is a bit much. need more staff imo, but not a pressing matter with how slow the site is presently.

good to see u ;*

[Marshmallow Marshall]

@MattZed

He seemed to be a great guy, from what I see in the old threads.

And yes, there is discussion around FM staff organisation to make sure we aren't underpopulated @naz

~~

Everyone, join the Ladder game!!! You don't have to be permanently posting and making 1.5k posts a day lol. Plus, the setup is smaller than usual so there should be no madness like in Insanity (although I personally loved the madness).

[Kovath]

@MattZed

I miss @Orpz

Me too

[Never Unlucky]

The website design is a bit old which doesnt help retain newcomers

[Marshmallow Marshall]

The website design is a bit old which doesnt help retain newcomers

What makes it look old?

Also hi resurrected person

[yzb25]

The website design is a bit old which doesnt help retain newcomers

It's been a long fucking time mate.

Welcome back

[secondpassing]

The website design is a bit old which doesnt help retain newcomers

Sup dude

[theoneceko]

the community is going to die and out there i would be laughing while y'all already lost

Thank You @PowersThatBe and @Rachyl for your support

Who is powersthatbe uwu

[theoneceko]

But what makes the site unique and different from the other mafia sites is that it’s SC2 mafia and that everyone in here is “special”. If you recruit random people from other sites then the site is no longer unique - in which case you might as well just play somewhere with a bigger userbase. Part of what makes us keep coming back here is that we all love to hate each other so much - and I don’t think that’s going to ever completely die off.

uwu

[theoneceko]

No they’ll just think we’re psychos is what I’m saying

LOL. uwu

[BananaCucho]

Who is powersthatbe uwu

dont

[theoneceko]

I personally believe adding that the way to sign to a FM is writing /sign in the Sign Ups would be a great idea.

This might sound stupid, but I remember years ago when I wanted to take part in FM and I wasn't sure what was going on at all. I didn't even know if there was something else behind writing /sign or something, how would I get my role, if I only needed to write -vote X to vote someone... Writing all these little details in a clear way so anyone can find it would be a good idea.

Yea I'd to post a few threads to learn about site functions. It's difficult to learn how this site works.

[theoneceko]

xD

Ahh, ok. Just like you, I love the site's aesthetics, and did so ever since I joined. It looks like other members around think the same, so perhaps it's not that much of an issue.


This may look dumb, but does anyone ever use the buttons for subscribing and RSS feed stuff? If not, that could probably be removed. However, the "last post in the section/thread/whatever" buttons are very useful to follow the forum's activity, along with the nice hat that changes color when you read things in the section. That should stay. Plus, they're not as mysterious as the small subscribe button.


Haha that's true! Time to fix it.

I never used subscribe and RSS. However, I don't think removing these two buttons is a high priority.

[theoneceko]

I don't remember posting this

uwu

[theoneceko]

There's that ofc but there's also attrition of the existing player base and it's not always just RL

idk Banana I was pretty sleep-addled as well

join our next fm uwu

[Marshmallow Marshall]

dont

It's Voldemort.

And sure, removing those things isn't a priority and I don't think I have the power to do it myself anyway. It's still something to consider, though.

[Dallarian]

If anyone cares about my opinion, it is not easy to even find this website, even if I know what I am looking for.
There are many Starcraft forums that mention Mafia and they often pop-up higher than this forum (like liquipedia, or Mod Mafia wiki).

People tend to be lazy and not scroll down.

Maybe slightly bigger advertisment on Mafia wiki? Last line of long post on main site only isn't really eye-catching.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

If anyone cares about my opinion, it is not easy to even find this website, even if I know what I am looking for.
There are many Starcraft forums that mention Mafia and they often pop-up higher than this forum (like liquipedia, or Mod Mafia wiki).

People tend to be lazy and not scroll down.

Maybe slightly bigger advertisment on Mafia wiki? Last line of long post on main site only isn't really eye-catching.

Agreed about the wiki.

As for that laziness, just typing "sc2 mafia" brings this up as the first choice for me. Perhaps a "Come play Forum Mafia on www.sc2mafia.com!" on the game's loading screen would be nice, though. Thanks for your input!

[Dallarian]

As for that laziness, just typing "sc2 mafia" brings this up as the first choice for me.

Definitely not.
Please remember, that different browsers try to "personalise" sometimes, so if you visit one website more often, then the website can be more likely to show for you.

[theoneceko]

work definitely needs to be done on making this website more accessible.

however, as SuperJack suggested, we should grow the playerbase first by inviting people.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Definitely not.
Please remember, that different browsers try to "personalise" sometimes, so if you visit one website more often, then the website can be more likely to show for you.

Usually true, but not on Tor =) I don't know why it doesn't show first for you when you type that. The loading screen idea remains good, though.

How can the site be more accessible, Ceko? It needs to be more popular, but accessibility seems good, no?

[theoneceko]

Usually true, but not on Tor =) I don't know why it doesn't show first for you when you type that. The loading screen idea remains good, though.

How can the site be more accessible, Ceko? It needs to be more popular, but accessibility seems good, no?

1) get rid of that weird IP ban thingie UWU
2) make it easier for new members to get ungated so they can post. ik hackers are a problem, but there's some confusion with confirming your email; apparently confirming your email only partially ungates you?
3) this is something i can contribute toward, but a guide on how to use simple commands would be appreciated. for example, we could create tutorials on how to access the ISO, how to properly vote, and how to use spoilers correctly. there's probably an FM thread that explains the first two, but uh u get the point. if there was an FM thread that explains all the commands, well u could've made that info more accessible, u know? im not saying u should actually do that specific thing, it's just to illustrate my point on how this site is tough to figure out.

i know a lot of this stuff can be figured out by most ppl if they just try hard enough. for example, i learned how to use spoilers by myself. however, a guide that is easily accessible will.... make this site more accessible!

check why i edited this shit lmao. UWUTROLOLOOLOL!!! OWOTROLOLOLOL.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Nice rainbow.

1) and 2): We're working on that.

3): The New User Guide is already there (link), pinned in Site Discussion and linked in the big thread linking to important threads. It really could use updates, though.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Hey everyone, as you may have realized, a few changes have happened in the FM section:

- Forum Mafia Reports & Appeals, where you may now post your FM reports related to games that are not ongoing anymore (to avoid OGC for the people who can access the section). Like in the Answer Hall, threads are private, so you may only see your own threads. FM Rules have been updated to reflect this.

- The infraction table in the FM Rules has been updated to better reflect the reality of FM.

- A new rule was added: You must post at least 5 times per game day. This rule, like others, may be amended (explicitely) by the Host in their setup or signups thread.

- @SuperJack has (re)integrated Forum Mafia Staff! Meet the Staff! thread has been updated accordingly.

[Ganelon]

All hail SJ

[Marshmallow Marshall]

All hail SJ

All hail Ganelon too, since he has joined FM staff! Meet the Staff! has been updated accordingly.

~~

We still need someone to host Spirits II on the Ladder, by the way; if you're willing to host it and meet the requirements for it (details in the Ladder thread), message me or an FM staff member to be added to the Queue!

Also, you may want to look at SuperJack's newbie game signups if you haven't already, either as a sign, a reserve, or a mentor

[secondpassing]

Welcome to Staff SuperJack and Ganelon.

[theoneceko]

All hail Ganelon too, since he has joined FM staff! Meet the Staff! has been updated accordingly.

~~

We still need someone to host Spirits II on the Ladder, by the way; if you're willing to host it and meet the requirements for it (details in the Ladder thread), message me or an FM staff member to be added to the Queue!

Also, you may want to look at SuperJack's newbie game signups if you haven't already, either as a sign, a reserve, or a mentor

LET'S GO!!!!

~

oWo