#230 A lot of things I don't agree with (about SCV/MM behavior D1 outcome, about anti-town/policy distinction, I will develop), but can't contest the "I'm providing things." part. Also you prove you're paying actual attention/respect to daychat. So would have unvote if I were able to log again D1. I don't vote people on semantic disagreements and imo there are people out there actually "providing" a lot less than you atm. SCV you need to be more convincing if you want to change my mind on this.
I'll state my naive "doctrine" to you (& town) on this matter (the "scummy cit" phenomenon and how it's affecting town) once and for all, so hopefully my stance will be understood and we can go forward
Premise 1: Trophy said in 8-2-2 this game was like Poker without cards/chips. I agree and disagree, we all got one card (role) and our chips are our posts. To me FM is Poker without showdown and with really weird chips (the only objective basis of the game being setup and flips basically)
Premise 2: Therefore everybody and everything could be lying at any time (Truthsafe exceptions being: setup, flips, own role, role feedback assuming no framer/BD/drug/we, and who's maf when maf)
Premise 3: Daychat is critical to town: during D1; if nobody try to make sense and day chat is simply either pure shitstorm or a 2 pages void of "hello town", D2 will be a simple remake of D1, less a townie. Imo even more true here as raffle make it impossible to plan night-actions ahead: afaik in this setup noone will ever be "100% confirmed" 'til he's flipped
Premise 4: Daychat MUST live, because Nightchat WILL live: random lynch D1 should always be the default town stance even when not concretizing an actual lynch; else, no pressure possible and everybody can just AFK/troll, hurting town in the process (premise 3). Worst case scenario of it is the lynch of a valuable town-aligned player, but it still has a slight chance to provide valuable enough info to be worth the loss of town body, and a slim but >0% chance to random luck scum. Point is, the worst possible outcome is still better than afk-filled D1 imo.
Premise 5: Because premise 2, especially D1 where setup is basically the only info town got, D1 I don't care on what may be scummy/towny behavior and instead try to focus on the objective effects (or expectable effects from rational pov) of each player's behavior. Making daychat happen (Premise 3, 4) is positive for town regardless the alignment of the player doing it and no matter how dirty the way: that's why I believe it deserve some blind D1 townpoints (premise 2)
Premise 6: D2 builds on D1 + N1: thanks to raffle night outcome is highly random, only solid thing we got to work with atm is D1 & Fatalis death. Daychat matters a lot.
On shitposting being NAI, I get that but shitpost still has an objective effect on the game, a little does little harm and can actually involve people into daychat, but when shitposting start to stack it makes it harder for town to use daychat and filter what is relevant/what is not in the shitstorm (we all got limited time & mental ressources afterall, and I believe SCV/Hybrid shitstorming all game played a fair part in 8-2-2 game outcome)
In short, it is a tool that can be used to do good or harm, and what I said about SCV is basically, his shitpost/shitvote did more good than harm to town D1 considering w/o him D1 chat would have been almost dead. Daychat filled with shitpost may be bad, but not worse than daychat filled with lurkers cf premises above.
Finally, I hope the above were enough to address your SCV & MM answers, but MM is different from SCV so I'll answer your answers
1. Not much stuff to acknowledge, tbh I only saw shitpost not worth copypasting.
2. I disagree with 1/2 considering I refused his distinction between 1 and 2, and actually enjoy reading people's opinions (that's why I feed them with mine) even if I don't share them. I don't agree with you neither on several points like antitown or policy application yet here I am walling at you: that's just not how I fund my suspicions.
3. Yup, what I implied was 33% lylo setup 66% town play on this post. But again it is D1, not everyone take it seriously, what I saw is MM really try to make daychat happen.
4: You twist my wording, I said "so far" -> D1 -> see premises above.
4b: "MM is certainly naive" is the most interesting part of this quote, why would you say that, an outright lie in Mafia, I mean what is certain? I'd say his gameplay is non-standard and may look weird, but again saw him trying to make daychat happen D1, and while more naive his trap story is more believeable than yours imo. I'm looking forward to his answer to this wall & his opinions on other concerns of the town. D1 is over and imo he must now compensate his inconsistencies by keeping up his commitment & sharing more thoughts, else the weirdness will be less and less endurable.
SB I don't choochoo you for the moment because you did your part on daychat and also maybe because I was one of the few to enjoy your poetry in ??? game. Still, I think you behave somewhat weird here, what you called "trap the trap" was objectively pushing l-1 early in D1 for policy/antitown/whatever, anybody in a gamey mood could have hammer, so high-risk-low-reward move to me. Also so far you were pretty defensive, it's fair while under suspicion and I appreciated your answer to me but if you keep tunneling SCV without addressing what was wrong in my reasoning above it won't do it. Use daytime wisely sweet poet, and we'll see.