Asking for Role Cards

[Raptorblaze]

I'm curious what the opinions are of this, in my personal experience players usually take longer to fabricate role cards of roles they aren't playing (especially pubs) but there's no way for me to directly confirm without having all the role cards either written down or saved somewhere.
Edit: For the record, I've used it once. But I see it asked for a LOT.

[Ambient]

Asking to read your role card is scummy and should be officially against the rules.

[Raptorblaze]

Asking to read your role card is scummy and should be officially against the rules.

People do it unfortunately, it's not a tactic I find incredibly reliable so I tend to only use it as jailor.

[philie]

dude, get the fuck out.
requesting to read rolecards breaks the game.

you're a massive faggot and it's not even a tactic.

[Sookie]

being asked to read role cards is annoying and kinda cheap. if someones trying to bluff or lie its difficult for them to come up with the answer quickly unless they have it perfectly memorized. which in my opinion shouldn't be something questioned while your on trial. you should be questioned on how to prove yourself the role by actions done, taken or other information related to the game progress and not on simply what your role card says. also some people are not sure what people mean when they ask for a role card and they get lynched because of it be they innocent or not.

i think of it as kinda like a low blow. that's just my 2 cents.

[Goonswarm]

I feel that this should be added to the loading splash, that does not insure anything, but at least it would be put out there.

[Raptorblaze]

being asked to read role cards is annoying and kinda cheap. if someones trying to bluff or lie its difficult for them to come up with the answer quickly unless they have it perfectly memorized. which in my opinion shouldn't be something questioned while your on trial. you should be questioned on how to prove yourself the role by actions done, taken or other information related to the game progress and not on simply what your role card says. also some people are not sure what people mean when they ask for a role card and they get lynched because of it be they innocent or not.

i think of it as kinda like a low blow. that's just my 2 cents.

Pretty much sums up my feelings on the matter.

dude, get the fuck out.
requesting to read rolecards breaks the game.

you're a massive faggot and it's not even a tactic.

You obviously weren't paying attention, I've done this exactly...*counts* Once. I was jailor and the suspected GF claimed invest in jail (made me more suspicious) so I asked for the first 3 lines of his role card, He outright stopped talking. Ended up killing him. On a sidenote, I killed the framer and the GF in jail that game. I was curious what the general feelings were on it because I see it happen quite a lot in pub games. If DR makes it a punishable offense I'll gladly report it.
On the other hand, would you mind having a serious discussion instead of resorting to insults? We aren't 5.

[Dust]

I don't agree with people asking for the lines on my role card.
if someone asks for them I will say "I don't agree with that, I think its against the spirit of the game" regardless if I'm town, neutral, or mafia. If its a jailor, he kills me. If I'm on trial, they lynch me.

Make it against the rules please.

[Raptorblaze]

I don't agree with people asking for the lines on my role card.
if someone asks for them I will say "I don't agree with that, I think its against the spirit of the game" regardless if I'm town, neutral, or mafia. If its a jailor, he kills me. If I'm on trial, they lynch me.

Make it against the rules please.

I think I'm gonna report it as cheating and see what happens, next time they ask me to read it. Since apparently it's a fairly common feeling.

[oops_ur_dead]

If someone asks anyone persistently to read their role card, I just kick them. It's bullshit and breaks the game.

[FYRE]

I don't see why people are so against making others read a role card. A person that is jailed being made to read a role card generally does not have enough time to type the whole thing, so typing a small portion of a role is pretty much always accepted. When on trial, the role cards can easily be acquired from tutorials tab, so there's no problem there. Players can memorize role cards if they so choose to give them some safety in jail, and if they want to do that, then it seems to me that the skill ceiling of Mafia is raised; an overall good thing for the game.

[Raptorblaze]

Of course, I've also seen people start reading their role cards aloud to prove their role. Not that that really proves much.

[FYRE]

Of course, I've also seen people start reading their role cards aloud to prove their role. Not that that really proves much.

? Yeah it doesn't really........

[Ash]

I think whoever does this is a faggot that does not have any talents in psychology.
I think role cards should be taken out of the gameplay!!

[Dust]

I think whoever does this is a faggot that does not have any talents in psychology.
I think role cards should be taken out of the gameplay!!

+1

[BorkBot]

Just to add my 2 cents, I do the same as Dust. If someone asks me to read my role card I basically say "screw you, that's a lame tactic and I'm not cooperating"

It's strangely satisfying when you end up getting executed as a doctor/investigator that way. The town will curse the failor, encouraged by your last will

[Dimwit]

I do the same thing. "Fuck off, I won't cheat." If it gets me lynched, fine. They'll be less likely to do it again if you're a town role.

[CmG]

But you would use Information got out of game like in FM and thats ok? Wow hypocrits much?

[TheJackofSpades]

The whole point of not asking players to read their role card is that it creates a bad atmosphere for new players who would be at an unnecessary disadvantage by basically being required to memorize every role card in order to function effectively.

It's just a stupid ass metagame to try and instill on the public, and we decided a long time ago that we didn't want it to ever take hold. Because, I for one, do not want to spend the time memorizing them myself.

So yeah, I usually inform the player that reading role cards is not an acceptable style of play. Jailors that don't accept my warning are kicked when they die, normal lynch stuff is usually balanced out by the player base on it's own.

[Auckmid]

Asking to read role cards is cheating imo. I would recommend that DR changes the loading screen so that it says "If you ask someone to read there rolecard, you may be placed on the watch or kick-vote list". Then there wouldn't be any doubt on whether it goes against the integrity of the game. Problem solved

[FYRE]

The whole point of not asking players to read their role card is that it creates a bad atmosphere for new players who would be at an unnecessary disadvantage by basically being required to memorize every role card in order to function effectively.

It's just a stupid ass metagame to try and instill on the public, and we decided a long time ago that we didn't want it to ever take hold. Because, I for one, do not want to spend the time memorizing them myself.

So yeah, I usually inform the player that reading role cards is not an acceptable style of play. Jailors that don't accept my warning are kicked when they die, normal lynch stuff is usually balanced out by the player base on it's own.

No one said you had to learn them, they are just an optional extra to have, in case you feel like having a higher chance of staying alive. Its not a 'stupid ass metagame', and the way you use 'metagame' shows that you don't really know what it means. When someone refers to the current 'metagame' of ZvP, they are talking about the current trends and way it is played, namely, mutalisk centric. So being able to say a random role card any time you want is just an optional extra, it lets players who put in the time to memorise them have a small, deserved, advantage.

[BorkBot]

it lets players who put in the time to memorise them have a small, deserved, advantage

That's rather subjective. I don't feel it's a deserved advantage. It's artificial misuse of an piece of information that was only intended as a reminder of the player's abilities and goals in the current setup, not as a strategical tool to prove yourself or mislead people.

[Dimwit]

But you would use Information got out of game like in FM and thats ok? Wow hypocrits much?

I don't know what this means.

The whole point of not asking players to read their role card is that it creates a bad atmosphere for new players who would be at an unnecessary disadvantage by basically being required to memorize every role card in order to function effectively.

Not just this, but it's an abuse of game mechanics. The purpose of the role card is so you have a clear understanding of your role. It is not there for you to quote to prove that you actually have that role card; it undermines all the other mechanics present within the game.

Simply, it's an exploit.

[Dimwit]

It is no different than using lag chat to call out roles from the graveyard. It's not an intended use of the mechanic and shouldn't be used.

[Lazers]

The amount of negativity in this thread regarding the difficulty of memorizing role cards is damn proof that it's effective. If you can't read the role card RIGHT THERE quickly, then it likely means you are not what you claim to be

Besides, it's easily accessible in the Help tab; I don't see what the bitching is about, since its pretty much the same as "WHAT IS UR ROLL"

[Lysergic]

Yeah, I tend to simply pick one town role card to have memorized. Or, if I'm under suspicion, I check the help tab the night before I'm expecting to go on trial, figure out what my lie will be, and then run with it the next day. For anyone who is actually dedicated enough to lying, asking for a role card isn't even a very effective strategy. Once I "read" it, people usually trust me and make mistakes that lead to their loss.

And that's on top of the fact that it's just a lame way to figure out someone's role. The role cards are there to help new players, not completely fuck them over.

[wolfcheese]

The amount of negativity in this thread regarding the difficulty of memorizing role cards is damn proof that it's effective.

Just because it's effective doesn't mean it's not ridiculous. If you go down that road, why not ask players to take a screenshot of their game screen, put it online somewhere and type in a URL for everyone to see? That would be even more effective. (Btw yes I have had ppl ask me to do just that)

[Sookie]

That's rather subjective. I don't feel it's a deserved advantage. It's artificial misuse of an piece of information that was only intended as a reminder of the player's abilities and goals in the current setup, not as a strategical tool to prove yourself or mislead people.

my thoughts exactly, they are a tool that's supposed to be helpful and informative, not a tool that should be used against people.

The amount of negativity in this thread regarding the difficulty of memorizing role cards is damn proof that it's effective.

i hear shooting man in the knee is an effective way to stop adventuring

[Lazers]

Just because it's effective doesn't mean it's not ridiculous. If you go down that road, why not ask players to take a screenshot of their game screen, put it online somewhere and type in a URL for everyone to see? That would be even more effective. (Btw yes I have had ppl ask me to do just that)

Well THAT just takes too long

[Raptorblaze]

Just because it's effective doesn't mean it's not ridiculous. If you go down that road, why not ask players to take a screenshot of their game screen, put it online somewhere and type in a URL for everyone to see? That would be even more effective. (Btw yes I have had ppl ask me to do just that)

If anyone asked me to do that I'd probably laugh at them. It's basically asking to see your screen, which if I recall correctly is CHEATING. I would like an official position on whether or not asking for a role card is legal or not though. From what I'm seeing the forum community majority thinks it should be illegal.

[mrzwach]

if you ask anyone to read their role card at any point in a game, you are a dick. no questions asked.

in most forum mafias, quoting your role PM or forcing someone else to means you are instantly modkilled. its exploitation of game mechanics and should never be tolerated unless specifically stated otherwise.

so don't fucking do it.

[Dimwit]

Crime: Cheating
Cheating is using methods unintended by the game to gain an unfair advantage over other players.
Usual Punishment: KickVote List

Reading role cards would easily be considered "using methods unintended by the game to gain an unfair advantage."

As has been said by a couple people, including myself, the intent of the role card is so you have a simple how-to for your role; conversely, it is NOT there for you to quote while your being lynched. It's really that simple, there's not much of an argument in support of it.

Again, it's no different than using Lag chat to call out mob from the graveyard. Sure, you can counter claim and use it as a source of misinformation, but it doesn't take away from the fact that the use of it is CHEATING.

[vornksr]

Like oops and Jack I consider it absolutely unacceptable. The loading screen did have a memo against it at some point last summer.

It does not add strategy; it makes the game worse. I'm pretty sure all the mods are in agreement about this one.

[Goonswarm]

Like oops and Jack I consider it absolutely unacceptable. The loading screen did have a memo against it at some point last summer.

It does not add strategy; it makes the game worse. I'm pretty sure all the mods are in agreement about this one.

DR should add it back if he gets time. We kick for it, it should be a known rule.

[Luna]

I have only been asked to read my role card one time.

I just made up a new role entirely. The jailor was satisfied.

[Raptorblaze]

DR should add it back if he gets time. We kick for it, it should be a known rule.

Don't be surprised if you start seeing me report people for it (if they get bitchy when I say no)

I have only been asked to read my role card one time.

I just made up a new role entirely. The jailor was satisfied.

#winning What role did you claim?

[Luna]

#winning What role did you claim?

Ex-Adventurer.
Town-aligned.

I used to be a Vigilante, but then I took an arrow to the knee. I am now a Citizen.

[Sookie]

Ex-Adventurer.
Town-aligned.

I used to be a Vigilante, but then I took an arrow to the knee. I am now a Citizen.

if i was a jailor and someone said this to me i would let them go lol

[jaczac]

Yay its in!

[Lazers]

Can someone seriously explain this to me? I'm really fucking baffled. Really.

Unless they're asking for a picture of your screen I don't see how this has any impact whatsoever on gameplay, since all the role cards are readily available ingame two clicks away






Unless you type with one finger and have the memory capacity of a grasshopper

[vornksr]

If it has no impact, don't do it and you won't be missing anything.

[Lazers]

If it has no impact, don't do it and you won't be missing anything.

I've never used it personally, and have only seen this question asked once or twice, with both times the defender being able to read out a fake rolecard easily in time and fuck over the town because they believed him/her.

I'm really missing the reason of all this asshurt and complaining

[vornksr]

Because it does nothing but make the game less enjoyable. Either you have to memorize a bunch of rolecards, which is stupid, wastes your time and puts off newbies, or you copy from the tutorial, which is causes a painfully obvious delay and therefore isn't usable.

It's a "strategy" that breaks the game.

[Luna]

I've never used it personally, and have only seen this question asked once or twice, with both times the defender being able to read out a fake rolecard easily in time and fuck over the town because they believed him/her.

I'm really missing the reason of all this asshurt and complaining

I was going to ask which servers you're on, but you're American right? I've never really seen it done on EU, though I've played SC2 Mafia very sporadically over the last month or two.

[Lazers]

I suppose it would be problematic if you typed slow, yeah, and in that way it can be a little unfair.

But back to the point - I've only seen this TWICE in the over 460 games I've played, and usually a request like that is ignored unless the guy asking it has some power and voice over the town, being in which case you're probably fucked regardless if you say "I'M DOCTOR LOL BELIEVE ME GUYS" or reading your rolecard, the latter being what personally I'd see as advantageous

[Lysergic]

I suppose it would be problematic if you typed slow, yeah, and in that way it can be a little unfair.

But back to the point - I've only seen this TWICE in the over 460 games I've played, and usually a request like that is ignored unless the guy asking it has some power and voice over the town, being in which case you're probably fucked regardless if you say "I'M DOCTOR LOL BELIEVE ME GUYS" or reading your rolecard, the latter being what personally I'd see as advantageous

I've seen it asked for at least 5 times in the last week. It's incredibly common. In every single case, it was a confirmed Invest asking in order to figure out which role the person was out of the possible roles for his invest result.

And you really can't see why people hate this?

Imagine you've never played Mafia before. Or, better yet, you've played ONCE, so you have a basic idea for how the rules work, and know some of the roles. You're SK. It's only you, a Doc, and an Invest left, and he's checked both you and the Doc. Suddenly, you get asked to read a role card. Because you have to go to help to look up the card, you take too long and get lynched.

Suddenly, the thing that is supposed to help you figure out what the fuck you're doing has become the thing that made you lose.

How do you not understand why people think role-card reading is shitty?

[Lazers]

I've seen it asked for at least 5 times in the last week. It's incredibly common. In every single case, it was a confirmed Invest asking in order to figure out which role the person was out of the possible roles for his invest result.

And you really can't see why people hate this?

Imagine you've never played Mafia before. Or, better yet, you've played ONCE, so you have a basic idea for how the rules work, and know some of the roles. You're SK. It's only you, a Doc, and an Invest left, and he's checked both you and the Doc. Suddenly, you get asked to read a role card. Because you have to go to help to look up the card, you take too long and get lynched.

Suddenly, the thing that is supposed to help you figure out what the fuck you're doing has become the thing that made you lose.

How do you not understand why people think role-card reading is shitty?

Well, new players are likely to get boned by the accusation-defense system regardless. I see it as having no difference to having to make up some bullshit role after going through ALL of the graveyard, ALL of the possible roles, and ALL of the roleclaims. Seriously, there's no difference at all, other than the rolecard question being somewhat easier to ask.

Also, DR why the fuck did you put that "dont ask for rolecards" shit on the loading screen. If anything, you're encouraging it by revealing it to people

[Dimwit]

Also, DR why the fuck did you put that "dont ask for rolecards" shit on the loading screen. If anything, you're encouraging it by revealing it to people

I disagree with this entirely. Im thankful he put it up. It let's people know that its not a welcome behavior, otherwise some (as we have seen) will believe to be arguably acceptable, when it is not because its an abuse of mechanics as I have already outlined.

[Lazers]

I disagree with this entirely. Im thankful he put it up. It let's people know that its not a welcome behavior, otherwise some (as we have seen) will believe to be arguably acceptable, when it is not because its an abuse of mechanics as I have already outlined.

Depends. If someone knows the rules, it will encourage them, if someone does not, it will either encourage or discourage based on the person they are (ie gamethrowing types)

Unless DR updates the list and adds "Exploits" or some shit

Wait, is this filed under cheating?

[EvilValk]

I have seen people read role cards and turned out to be another role. It is very unreliable and I agree with most, it is uncouth.