Should I add FM VI to the Points System?

[FalseTruth]

This FM was a clusterfuck of terrible balance and a neutral town. It is drastically different from anything forum mafia has ever seen. Is it fair to add points for winning into the points system in spite of all these flaws?

You tell me. Please don't be selfish in making this decision i.e. it will give you points and you like points, think about this from a neutral perspective and answer honestly.

Thanks.

P.S. This would include MVP points. Sorry vorn

[Deathfire123]

no, town didnt have to work to earn the win and a lot of the classifications are kind of unfair considering Sin had a major power boost when that auto unseal rule came out

[Luna]

Damnit I wanted some points but I can't bring myself to vote Yes

[vornksr]

No. It's so different from the others in so many different ways that I don't see how you could come up with a scoring system that would be reasonably comparable. If it were merely balance problems that were the matter, I'd say include it (since not all of the other games were perfectly balanced), but I think the differences go beyond just that.

[vornksr]

Responding to deathfire, though: the auto-unseal thing wasn't an unfair powerboost to Sin. It was a belated attempt to save the faction from being absurdly UP. (People complaining about Rev introducing that rule never seem to mention the fact that he changed rules in favor of humanity early on by letting power roles inherit uses from their dead counterparts.)

[Deathfire123]

Responding to deathfire, though: the auto-unseal thing wasn't an unfair powerboost to Sin. It was a belated attempt to save the faction from being absurdly UP. (People complaining about Rev introducing that rule never seem to mention the fact that he changed rules in favor of humanity early on by letting power roles inherit uses from their dead counterparts.)

I thought that was always there. And honestly, that ability would create demons faster than Lucifer. I think if he wanted to even it up, He should have made it every second day

[Ganondorf]

I like to think of this forum mafia as an experiment and a chance to have a bit of fun, and I don't think that there should be points awarded (nor do I know how in the world you'd assign point values to each role). If anything, maybe give all (active) participants 1 point?

[BorkBot]

i voted no. I might be biased in this, but the setup seemed very unbalanced to me. The only reason Eternity ever had a chance was because Humanity and especially Rome sided with us for some reason that didn't have anything to do with chances to win.

Eternity had no leverage over Rome and no leverage over Sin either, after Angels got nerfed and couldn't detect sealed demons anymore. Our cult/mason leader absolutely had to reveal at some point due to Roman pressure, whether it was convenient for us or not.

Rome had leverage over both Eternity and Sin because of Tiberius and Pilate's auto lynch.

Sin had leverage over Eternity because of night kills and powerful abilities to use alongside them.

Why Rome ever supported Eternity is beyond me. I completely agree with Auckmid and Ambient in that regard.


All in all, making the largest faction a bunch of survivors pretty much guaranteed the mafia's win. The only reason why it looked differently for two days is because a lookout got lucky, but the rules change in the middle negated that edge.

[Zack]

I propose a third option...

Add a category called "Experimental Game", could just give everyone 1 point for participation in it as Ganondorf suggested. Or you could give the winners 2 points and everyone else 1 point, though perhaps having a diffrence between winners and losers in an experimental game is not good...

[BorkBot]

Zack's alternative is decent. All in all I think DR had too much influence on the game's developments while it was already running (rule changes, giving us guarantees that Dimwit was correct in his assumption that Ambient was Lucifer, giving Sin advice during night chat, etc).

Experimental setups like that, especially if the rules aren't entirely clear and changed during the course of the game, shouldn't contribute to the scores in full. But the players of Sin deserve some credit because they played well.

Maybe 3 points for winners, 1 point for losers and 1 bonus point for the MVP would be fair.

[TheJackofSpades]

Zack's alternative is decent. All in all I think DR had too much influence on the game's developments while it was already running (rule changes, giving us guarantees that Dimwit was correct in his assumption that Ambient was Lucifer, giving Sin advice during night chat, etc).

Experimental setups like that, especially if the rules aren't entirely clear and changed during the course of the game, shouldn't contribute to the scores in full. But the players of Sin deserve some credit because they played well.

Maybe 3 points for winners, 1 point for losers and 1 bonus point for the MVP would be fair.

You need to realize the scale of the actual point system that is already implemented.

A normal town victory is worth 4 points. By giving the winner 3 points, or even two points, you're not actually really making that much of a distinction between an experimental game that turned out poorly and normalcy. You'll find that making such a distinction would pretty much ultimately be pointless due to this fact.

For instance, a win for 2 points is actually the same as a loss for a culted town when town wins. Are the two comparable? I honestly don't know, and I don't really know if anyone can adequately make that call. All I know is that using your suggestion would basically be giving the surviving members of humanity a free town win points-wise while they really achieved little in the entirety of the game. While Sin will basically be screwed by the system by getting about half the points they should have.

Which is why the entire game should just be ignored. You either count it, or you don't at all. There's no middle ground.

[Ash]

too lazy to read big posts, but i agree with zack