[23:19:33] DarknessB: Sino is Mass Murderer -- I don't care if there isn't one in the setup!
[23:19:39] DarknessB:-vote Sino
Yeah and I answered. I'm not wasting my time on explaining a TOWN READ to someone who isn't reading the chat properly.
You still haven't commented on the rest of the posts that you missed while you 'caught up' on the chat but you felt it important to throw shade on someone town-reading...a player that you null-read?
You're either extremely bad with priorities or you're scum trying to doubt-cast.
I'm going with the latter given your lack of initiative and overtly scum-motivated Mesk post in #499.
I fail to see town motivation in anything that you've done so far.
I don't want a defense. There are enough shit-posts in the game as it is.
I want you to contribute on your own accord.
[23:19:33] DarknessB: Sino is Mass Murderer -- I don't care if there isn't one in the setup!
[23:19:39] DarknessB:-vote Sino
[23:19:33] DarknessB: Sino is Mass Murderer -- I don't care if there isn't one in the setup!
[23:19:39] DarknessB:-vote Sino
He's using his initiative, as opposed to Mr. Voting Everyone Who Voted For Him And Doing Nothing Else.
Would you like me to draw up every one of your votes and prove how terrible they are?
You can gain even more scum points for your implicit "why are you scum-reading me for throwing around votes like candy and not SJ?" message.
If you're not going to do anything useful then I'm just going to conclude that your scum play is lifeless and go back to rereading the chat.
But don't feel too bad. This would be your first scum game if I recall correctly.
I don't like this post, so basically "i'm waiting for other people to start discussion with me"
I don't quite agree here sp, scum can be pro town and still win, being pro town can just mean acting in a way town would.
Everyone is, you can't say that.
Now, there is.
I'll reread everything to get other thoughts.
[23:19:33] DarknessB: Sino is Mass Murderer -- I don't care if there isn't one in the setup!
[23:19:39] DarknessB:-vote Sino
Up to Page 6. My thoughts haven't changed very much from my earlier impressions which is good.
Quotes are in the spoilers as evidence.
Observations:
Sino is still a self-centered, reactive and scummy bastard.
Spoiler : Sino's votes are truly woeful. Haven't included his posts on Unknown but he reacted defensively when Unknown called him out for shade-throwing :
Spoiler : The rest of his posts up until Page 6 are very self-centered. He only talks about himself and how others perceive him :
deathworlds' interactions and read progressions of Sino are suspicious.
Spoiler : I don't like DWs speaking on Sino's behalf here. He criticises my argument but doesn't use it to go anywhere with forming a read on Sino and I :
He goes on and votes SP for putting Sino at L-2 early on and criticises his reads, that's all fine and dandy. During his SP pressure, he brings up Sino again, asking what made SP change his mind from wanting to lynch Sino to town-leaning him.
In the interim, he pads his filter by talking about Mesk's claim. Useless posts.
Spoiler : He shows some consistency when he makes this post and notes the problematic speed of Sino's train. One can reasonably infer that DWs has a town-lean on Sino due to the speed of the train. Note that he doesn't directly pass judgment on Sino's alignment. He insinuates that Sino is town ("alarmingly fast train building" and "very opportunistic" suggest this) but does not stick himself down in a position :
Why is this concerning? When he gives his reads, Sino doesn't even appear.
Spoiler : DW's reads list. DWs has talked about Sino the most (after SP) and he doesn't even have a strong read on him...? That's incredibly strange behaviour which could be indicative of bias :
I am aware that I seem to be hammering in my scum-reads here, but nobody else (save for RLVG's chronic uselessness and SP) stood out to me as scummy.
At this point i'd like to point ou ika's behavior this game, he never really gave an opinion on anymore except for SW, he tells us he's waiting for people to start interacting with him, but why should he wait like this ?
Here are some quotes :
He's mentionning SW in this post, tell us about his reads list, here it is :
Yes, you did post a reads list, but you never gave any explanation on all those reads (once again, except for SW), you never gave your opinion on people's scumread on me, nor an opinion on the early Calix/MZ interaction, nor on secondpassing, ect, ect.
Dude, you've tunneling SW the whole game now, surely you must have some opinion on everything that has happened so far.
Moving my vote on this slot for now
-vote ika
[23:19:33] DarknessB: Sino is Mass Murderer -- I don't care if there isn't one in the setup!
[23:19:39] DarknessB:-vote Sino
@Sino if you are going to give me shit for trying to scum hunt and voteing who I suspect, then at least put some effort into it. I'm sick of people like you not even bothering to try and understand my point, and instead use basic annoying worthless attacks like "just throwing votes around" "drawing at strawss" "painting them as scum"
Those sort of comments really agitate me, they are a cheap swing at my scumhunting. I voted each time with reasons and trying to press pressure, I have to say what I think are reasons people are scum, it's not picking straws. And it isn't painting them as scum when they are legit being scum and doing scummy things.
If anyone wants to play back at my attempts of scum hunting. Stop with the cheap shot and get involved deaper.
Ika and SW's interaction with one another seems incredibly fake it's almost funny. They both vote each other and both Town-read each other. They also both want to interact with each other and neither have done this effectively.
You want me to vote someone? Alright.
Mesk is intentionally doing this. The "Citizen" was way too forced and are halfly defensive with the fact that they've been called out on doing this.
Nope, I don't hear Citizen this time.
-vote Mesk514
Where is the scum motivation? He stated that he would reread and clarify his reads. I would rather wait for that before concluding that his reads are poor. If he does not follow up on his promise then I may consider it.
Well well well, if Mesk's train being pushed by questionable players isn't telling then I don't know what is.
I'm seriously not voting with SP and RLVG, lol.
Unknown-ika and I vote each other to start every game. I have tried to talk to ika but we decided for this game not to play in the same room or talk to each other about the game when we aren't playing. If one of us is playing the other will leave the room. If I'm playing upstairs, he's playing downstairs. It's the only way we can play together and live together at the same time. Especially being so used to freely talking when we *****. It's one of the reasons we ***** so much before this game. It feels weird to me and it's hard for me to interact that way because I can't just go-hey, get on the damn game and talk to me. It's a bizarre situation. That said, ika needs to scumhunt outside of me. I don't like that he is keeping his vote on me while not looking elsewhere for scumreads if he's townreading me. I'd like him to give me actual scumreads. However, he's working all day so that isn't going to happen anytime soon. The only thing I'm townreading him on is the fact that he's paranoid of me and trying to figure me out instead of buddying me which I think he'd do as scum. I'd love to see him expand on his reads.
deathworlds is bugging me, I need to go look at Mafia Wars and see when he started saying fuck you to people, he was converted N1 and was town before that so I'm gonna see if he had a sudden personality change after the change or was always that way.
His Mesk points are kind of weak. I got a don't give a shit town feel from Mesk. Claiming Citizen and town is something she did last game as town. Would she do this as scum? Who knows? Maybe. However, deathworlds points just seem like he's picking on the weakest link and no one is really gonna question that. He's also making a lot of blending in comments and excuses to play badly. His reads list is o.k. but it's basically go with the flow in the game-ie scumreading secondpassing.
Anyway, gonna check Mafia Wars now.
Wow Mattzed is quite hurt that I've found reasons to suspect him of being scum. Having a similar reactions to PTBs. Only this time I'm legitimately trying to scum hunt, and MZ has a tone of Experriance.
At least MZ didn't get to wagon on me whilst I slept.
About me going to bed. I was tired, consumed some alcohol the night before so I didn't sleep much.
I knew I would end up tunneling MZ, and I didn't want to end up stuck in it. So I went to sleep. Rest my mind and go for it again on a new day.
I didn't leave because I somehow knew, that after I Left, you would want to put pressure on me. I left because I didn't want to get stuck and ruin my day tunneling.
But I'm quite curious that you knew I had left, and didn't bother pressing Silverwolf who was here at the time. And was next on your scum list.
This post by SW feels a little too enthusiastic - it looks like she's eager to take the easy-scumread on SP, and join the circlejerk.
I definitely wouldn't call SP's post towny, but it's the kind of post that's difficult to justify from a scum perspective AND a town perspective, so rushing to the scum perspective just because it's unrelatable is wrong.
That aside, I still think SP is dodgy because it's like he's trying to act nonchalant and it feels fake. It's just SW looks like she's going "oh yeaahh! I'm one of you towns!!! SP is disgusting!!! Wooo!" here.
Let's keep it real, Mesk is a good manipulator and can feign that vibe very well.
@Mesk514
If you're reading the game, please give some thoughts on Sino, Calix and/or Mattzed, because you're basically unreadable for me right now, and you'll probably live until LYLO.
If you have already given some meaningful posts after page 15, you can ignore this.
In other news, RLVG's doing his completely unreadable down-the-line play this game. We should get the guy to give more opinions when he's on.
Woah, Calixander the Great is actually questionning my play, right here, right now. I haven't fangirled this hard since I was in a game with DB.
But yeah, I don't like this train on SP as of p15, if I didn't make that clear. Being a dipshit isn't that scummy. I don't townread the guy but the voters are a mixture of "your vote and attitude triggers my autism" and "ooh free reason to scumread yay"
VOTE COUNT 2
- ika (1 [L-6]):
Sino
deathworlds (1 [L-6]):
SuperJack
secondpassing (3 [L-4]):
MattZed, deathworlds, Calix
SilverWolf (1 [L-6]):
ika
Sino (1 [L-6]):
SilverWolf
Mesk514 (2 [L-5]):
secondpassing, RLVG
I expect that the chat will blow up again in a few hours so it's a good time to make another useless post for the sake of posting!
I didn't like Sino's 'case' on ika. It wasn't very good. All it said was "he hasn't given proper reads yet and has focused mainly on SW" which could have been summed up in two sentences. I don't see how this is scum-indicative given the circumstances.
(also he only posted it after I called him obvious scum for not using his initiative so there's a possible scum motivation for how crap the ika 'case' is)
SJ's vote is meta-based, nothing to see here. Would like to see what SilverWolf thinks, however, as she said she was going to look at that.
ika's vote needs to be updated.
Mesk's train is woeful and the only people who have voiced their support for it (SP, RLVG, DW) are scum-reads. That train needs to die in a fire.
I'm going to switch votes. Anyone who doesn't understand why needs to read my posts and read between the lines a bit.
-vote Sino
It's also fun to see how hard you are trying to defend Mesk, dismissing people when they are voting her, not be willing to clearly explain your town read on her, and most of all, you ask people to participate in the game, but for some odd reason Mesk did enough to you, she gets a free pass.
Could you be a bit less obvious at poketing please ?
[23:19:33] DarknessB: Sino is Mass Murderer -- I don't care if there isn't one in the setup!
[23:19:39] DarknessB:-vote Sino
This interaction is relevant to me, because I kinda scumread both Sino and SW, but this interaction definitely doesn't look like two people on the same alignment. In short, either my scumread on SW or Sino is wrong.
If I had to choose, I'd stick to the SW scumread, because I find it easier to explain Sino's scummyness from a town perspective. The main thing I don't like how defensive he seems, but it's not like towns aren't defensive. Some people just get legit offended when they're scumread as town lol. I've never played with Sino, but that would fit his personality.
Or you know, both of my scumreads could be wrong because I'm trash. The world is full of opportunity.
I'm not giving SW many points for many of her reads because I think she's capable of faking them as scum. Those reads seem to be the main reason people are townreading her.
Her thoughts aren't as original as Unknown says. However, I don't fault Unknown for that. It's just easier for me to see who had ideas first because I'm reading this whole thing at once.
Alright, let me pull some of your quotes :
Not really a good argument when you've mentionned WIFOM in sp's case, and that's the only argument you gave for your Mesk town read.
You completely dodged my question here, i thought read lists were also a tool for town to generate discussion about them.
Tell us how a train on someone who doesn't particiapte is bad, it forces them to post more, thus giving us more to read.
Why would a scum want to pocket Mesk ? Easy, she'll probably survive until the end game given everyone reads her as null, and won't also be targeted for a kill given she does nothing, making her the perfect target to pocket to be able to secure lynches in the end game.
Again how is it a shitty train of it's on someone who doesn't participate that people want to hear more of ?
[23:19:33] DarknessB: Sino is Mass Murderer -- I don't care if there isn't one in the setup!
[23:19:39] DarknessB:-vote Sino
yzb-When you are caught up please give your read on secondpassing. You've basically defended him like he's a townread while at the same time saying he's not town to you. I don't like your reasoning for not liking my comment on secondpassing, I didn't throw down a vote there like others or get pissed like others, so your read on that post is bad and it pings me
I finally got a chance to look into Mafia Wars and DW acted the same d1 when he was town with the fuck you's and piss off so I'm gonna say that part of his play is NAI. So SJ's vote isn't really all that meaningful and I'd like him to explain his read on DW better. DW is still scum to me due to the other reasons I gave though in my previous post.
I checked Fringe cuz I wanted to see if Sino's defensiveness happened there and I really don't see it. I didn't read the part before the universes split cuz there wasn't voting or lynching but after page 5 in the universe, Sino was voted once and suspected by another. I didn't see the defensiveness he and Unknown are talking about. My other points on him stand-townreading those that back off him and scumreading those that vote and pressure him, buddying Unknown, etc.
Secondpassing's ISO on Unknown was actually pretty good. I still don't like a lot of his other posts which I've pointed out but this ISO is good because he is looking at someone he's scumreading, evaluating him, and changing it to a townread which means he's willing to re-evaluate his scumreads. I might have to reconsider my scumread here and look at the nulls.
Right now for sure would lynch deathworlds or sino. Maybe yzb.
MattZed's setup spec while protown is NAI because anyone of either alignment can do it. His scumread on me was for my Sino vote which he said was opportunistic but he voted right after me, so that seems really contradictory. He made a post saying he didn't realize scum got the NK if the neutral was dead, which may actually be a townslip. However, reading SJ as scummy for not being here and having RL is meh. I don't really care for it. So, let's just go with null on MattZed for now.
ika-slight townlean, will know more after he updates his reads and his vote
RLVG-a lot of nothing posts and a vote on Mesk that looks like he was just voting to do something, slight scumread
Mesk-slight townlean for an early citizen claim that I don't really see scum doing plus a not give a shit attitude
SuperJack-really not much of substance to comment on surprisingly, null until he does more
pedit: yzb, I am doing more than just giving reads. And what about them is fake to you?
[23:19:33] DarknessB: Sino is Mass Murderer -- I don't care if there isn't one in the setup!
[23:19:39] DarknessB:-vote Sino
Are you scum-reading me? Y/ N. Ironically, you dodge that question in the same breath that you accuse me of dodging questions.
I didn't "dodge your question" either - I explicitly said that I wasn't going to answer it because your motivation for asking like you did was obviously scum-motivated.
The red herring is real with you. I ask you what your read is on me and you answer with "emergerd how is pressuring Mesk a bad idea???" Nice try but I see what you're trying to do there.
Bitch please, none of the voters are 'pressuring' Mesk. They slammed down a vote and didn't follow up on it. Unmitigated bullshit, I sense it.
Are you mad? Sino is almost certainly scum with his posts.
HE HAS OMGUS'D PEOPLE ON AT LEAST FIVE SEPARATE OCCASIONS. FIVE!
Don't get me wrong, I scum-read the other two but how the fuck are you thinking that Sino is anything less than slam-dunk scum?
Please explain.
To clarify these things because people seem confused.
1.) Mesk has been pressured before, and never does anything different (hiding behind an anon account makes no difference, so lynching her is basically lynching a blank slot).
2.) Sad to say it, but Sino's play is really bad but doesn't appear to be scummy more and more as I read into him.
3.) SuperJack, DW got converted n1 so he wasn't scum at that point.
4.) Secondpassing in no way has seemed anything other than scummy so people defending them (Yzb) should really explain why they don't think he's scummy.
5.) prob have more to say later.
SW's comment on yzb's SP read is pretty much what I was thinking when I read those posts. I also agree with the Mesk/ DW read.
That's actually a really good point about SP re: Unknown. I'll have to keep that in mind.
[23:19:33] DarknessB: Sino is Mass Murderer -- I don't care if there isn't one in the setup!
[23:19:39] DarknessB:-vote Sino
"Pretty obvious"
You never talked about me at all and your comments to me earlier are NOT how a town reacts to a scum-read calling them scum.
You literally went along with everything I said and didn't try to push me at all.
I'm calling bullshit on this claim that you ever scum-read me.