S-FM 218: Mafia Wars III

[Gyrlander]

Could you give your reasons for wanting Elephant dead? I defended that the scum-slip was non-existent, but they can still be scum for other reasons.

[deathworlds]

Could you give your reasons for wanting Elephant dead? I defended that the scum-slip was non-existent, but they can still be scum for other reasons.

*Both me someone else (Cancer?) pointed out that the archon was not playing to its full potential.
*I believe that the responses to my pressure were somewhat alignment indicative
*Use of self-meta.

[deathworlds]

*Both me someone else (Cancer?) pointed out that the archon was not playing to its full potential.
*I believe that the responses to my pressure were somewhat alignment indicative
*Use of self-meta.

Misphrased that, the Archon was reacting poorly dispite a lot of combined experience, unsure if this applies anymore.

[Elephant]

*Both me someone else (Cancer?) pointed out that the archon was not playing to its full potential.

DB: Honestly man, being busy is not AI, and you wonder why players with reputations of being good don't want to sign for games as much? Because if they're not as active / leading the Town, they get lazily scumread by others for that. As an FM staff member, you of all people should be trying to get people to stop doing this because it drives good players away from games.

[Elephant]

Misphrased that, the Archon was reacting poorly dispite a lot of combined experience, unsure if this applies anymore.

DB: As pointed out, the only one who had posted up until I started this morning (with signing all my posts) was Unknown.

[deathworlds]

DB: As pointed out, the only one who had posted up until I started this morning (with signing all my posts) was Unknown.

Which is why I said that I'm unsure if it applies anymore.

Archon's can still be read with analysis on one individual.

[Frozen Angel]

I'm not voting you for your slip elephant. as I said before - me finding that slip not reliable has no relation to my vote on you.

and yes I find it odd that someone who has 3 failed exp in this was pushing you so confident with that type of reasoning,

[Elephant]

Unknown:

I noticed that as soon as people started to back off of me and Darkness came around, Whad conveniently disappeared without saying anything.

[Elephant]

I'm not voting you for your slip elephant. as I said before - me finding that slip not reliable has no relation to my vote on you.

and yes I find it odd that someone who has 3 failed exp in this was pushing you so confident with that type of reasoning,

Unknown:

That was two different people speaking, sorry.

Can you respond to Darkness's comments?

[Frozen Angel]

Unknown:

That was two different people speaking, sorry.

Can you respond to Darkness's comments?

Im confused. what comment

[MattZed]

@God Emperor Trudeau , this is your only and public warning that you MAY NOT quote or pretend to quote conversations within your archon. Per the Rules for Archons:

No Quoting Inner-Archon Chat
Don't directly quote from your private skype/PM chats with the other players in your archon. It is unfair to force scum archons to falsify such information and makes it too easy for town archons to appear as town.
Infraction: First Violation is a warning; Second Violation is a replacement/modkill. Repeat offenders will be temporarily disallowed from joining archons.

Furthermore, this is a public announcement that God Emperor Trudeau has made excessive personal attacks and been punished for them. Personal attacks will not be tolerated. You may attack someone's play or their playstyle, but not the player directly.

[MattZed]

@mattzed Would a jailed person learn the kidnapper's identity?

Yes, a kidnapped person learns the identity of their kidnapper.

[Elephant]

Im confused. what comment

His comments in general.

[yzb25]

RLVG's response to my vote ticked me off for a few reasons. I didn't have much of a problem with the conspiracy-theorying on me, but I felt he was deliberately misleading / provoking with his defense.

Spoiler : Original RLVG post :

Cancer has called so many people dicks, oh lil' prick.

I'm a Virgo if you want a shot at mine though.

As for the rest of discussion, I'm just going to shut it off because it's mostly unecessary drama lol.

---

RLVG's votes seem kind of opportunistic:



I get at that at this stage votes are placed mainly for discussion, but the shitty reason "you've got something to hide by not signing hurdurr!" makes the vote a shitty discussion starter.

I also don't like how quickly he bounced from voting Firebringer to voting Trudeau. At #75 he voted FB, then, just over 10 mins later, he switched to Trudeau, on post #88, barely giving anyone time to respond to the vote on FB. Again, if votes exist to start discussion, RLVG ain't doing a good job of it.

At this point, RLVG is the closest thing I have to a not-shit scumread.

-vote RLVG


He also has a kind-of self-righteous tone that feels kind of feigned.

The game is still early, lol.

I don't like a roleplaying Firebringer, and Archons are obnoxious as fuck. Easy excuses to park votes.

I'm not sure if self-righteous is the right word. Sort of like he's trying to pretend he gives a shit about things other people are doing, without actually really giving a shit about what other people are doing. RLVG's pretty partial to crazy/ridiculous plays so it feels off the way he says: "You should sign, but you should not freaking fake sign."

What? I'm not pretending. If you refuse to sign or fake sign, that's a sign (lol pun) that you can't be trusted and if we start to make accusations they have the trump card of "Lol, I'm actually this guy, so you can't read me as scummy for this and this reason". Fuck that noise.

The RP is clearly actually-bothering him and making it harder for him to read FB's posts lol.

... Yes? That's obvious for every person in this game lol. May it be Whad in this situation, or me, or anyone else, except you?
The way you worded it seemed a bit curious, almost as if... Oh I don't know, you can read him with a biasis of having a shared alignment?
Oh shit!

Anyway, the Whad and Cancer trains are INFERIOR. The cool kids like Gyr and yzb are on the RLVG train. Join today.

Also, he's attempting to lead a train with this kind of accusation, while saying that the other trains are inferior, just lol.

Scumslip.

-vote Elephant


FBI would only know that if they attempted to recruit other scum team, or godfather/consign.

Catching up.

I don't see the scum-slip. Just because they said there's three scum and they're seperate, doesn't make them informed by a guaranteed outcome as even Town could blurt that out.

Curious enough, you say absolutely nothing regarding the RP which YZB made a comment about. They having a difficulty to read you based on roleplay which may be reason in itself for a push and stuff. This in turn makes that one small touch of YZB accusation I just made a bit more... colorful.

Curious enough, you say absolutely nothing regarding the RP which YZB made a comment about. They having a difficulty to read you based on roleplay which may be reason in itself for a push and stuff. This in turn makes that one small touch of YZB accusation I just made a bit more... colorful.

---

I'm making the accusation of that YZB has been informed of Firebringer in some way that's not from the day itself, A.K.A knowing the identity of another scum, and Firebringer subtly embracing it.

I just hope players don't randomly disregard my vote because it looks like OMGUS.

-vote YZB25

RLVG's votes seem kind of opportunistic:



I get at that at this stage votes are placed mainly for discussion, but the shitty reason "you've got something to hide by not signing hurdurr!" makes the vote a shitty discussion starter.

I also don't like how quickly he bounced from voting Firebringer to voting Trudeau. At #75 he voted FB, then, just over 10 mins later, he switched to Trudeau, on post #88, barely giving anyone time to respond to the vote on FB. Again, if votes exist to start discussion, RLVG ain't doing a good job of it.

The game is still early, lol.

I don't like a roleplaying Firebringer, and Archons are obnoxious as fuck. Easy excuses to park votes.

This doesn't address my problem with his voting at all. In fact, he confesses he was just looking for excuses to park votes, rather than actually using the votes to try to initiate discussion or reaction test.

The RP is clearly actually-bothering him and making it harder for him to read FB's posts lol.

... Yes? That's obvious for every person in this game lol. May it be Whad in this situation, or me, or anyone else, except you?
The way you worded it seemed a bit curious, almost as if... Oh I don't know, you can read him with a biasis of having a shared alignment?
Oh shit!

Spoiler : Here is the full post that he's quoting: :

Regarding Whad:

Though posting thoughts about what roles you think scum picked isn't really helpful to town, the way Whad went about it seemed like he was really trying to figure it out. Unless he faked all that stream of consciousness, I can only see Whad being FBI agent / mole with the way he's talked about the Lucianos, if he is scum.

When Whad said this:



It made his pushing on FB look like he sincerely thought he was acting in town's interests - he's trying to read / focus on a person others won't want to read / will skip over. He even conceded he doesn't necessarily scumread him and was just trying to snap him out of the RP. The RP is clearly actually-bothering him and making it harder for him to read FB's posts lol.



The way he seems to be legit trying to sort through the shitty / unconventional plays makes me feel like he really believes he's working for the good of the town by attacking the "trolls", rather than exploiting PLs.

And the way he lifted off FB the moment he felt like he had a solid reason to townread him made him look like he was actually trying to read FB, and had come to the conclusion he was likely town, for now.

I think that's pretty much why I townread him right now.

Spoiler : And this is the part he's referring to :

Regarding Whad:

Though posting thoughts about what roles you think scum picked isn't really helpful to town, the way Whad went about it seemed like he was really trying to figure it out. Unless he faked all that stream of consciousness, I can only see Whad being FBI agent / mole with the way he's talked about the Lucianos, if he is scum.

When Whad said this:



It made his pushing on FB look like he sincerely thought he was acting in town's interests - he's trying to read / focus on a person others won't want to read / will skip over. He even conceded he doesn't necessarily scumread him and was just trying to snap him out of the RP. The RP is clearly actually-bothering him and making it harder for him to read FB's posts lol.



The way he seems to be legit trying to sort through the shitty / unconventional plays makes me feel like he really believes he's working for the good of the town by attacking the "trolls", rather than exploiting PLs.

And the way he lifted off FB the moment he felt like he had a solid reason to townread him made him look like he was actually trying to read FB, and had come to the conclusion he was likely town, for now.

I think that's pretty much why I townread him right now.

Obviously if you just focus on an individual reason it looks like I'm just making an obvious point. The point of arguments is you use obvious reasons to take the reader to less obvious conclusions.

He's deliberately taken this one line way out of context to frame me as a scum making frivolous points to defend my supposed scumbuddy Whad, because if he actually gave the reader the appropriate context the reader would never fucking buy it.

What? I'm not pretending. If you refuse to sign or fake sign, that's a sign (lol pun) that you can't be trusted and if we start to make accusations they have the trump card of "Lol, I'm actually this guy, so you can't read me as scummy for this and this reason". Fuck that noise.

"You're only pretending to care!"

"No I really do care!"

This argument will inevitably devolve into a shitfest, but I'll make one more point: you didn't actually seem to take your own reads on Firebringer and Trudeau that seriously (You yourself admit you were just looking to park your vote) yet you acted pretty passionate about your read/vote on them at the time. This makes your attitude seem very forced. It's like your trying to feign town passion.

I'm making the accusation of that YZB has been informed of Firebringer in some way that's not from the day itself, A.K.A knowing the identity of another scum, and Firebringer subtly embracing it.

I just hope players don't randomly disregard my vote because it looks like OMGUS.

-vote YZB25

Yep. Your vote looks convenient as fuck, given you didn't actually read into my posts and give any substantial reason to why you scumread me, other than taking me out of context. That's why everyone else looked at your vote and just said "hmm? Confused, so why are you voting yzb again?"

It looks like you're just trying to provoke me and reduce this train on you to a shitfest that makes people throw their hands in the air and go "pff it's probably TvT anyway - look they're both acting so heated and conspiratorial!".

[yzb25]

My vote got took off for some reason. Here:

-vote RLVG

[Yukitaka Oni]

I want your opinions on Cancer, RLVG, GET, and Firebringer.

GET?
Cancer has too many archons. I avoid
Fire try to sumhunt day 1? Is this real life? Or just another bait for the wagon train?
Most debate fill with cancer, trudean and elephant. Which i rather find other people to read rather than hot-train
While trudeau is getting mad, i think i do not want to talk about it. Frozen is chilling and calm as usual, i would be sad if the FBI pick her, i mean. Come on >)o.o)>!








Something tell me most people in this hot train is mafia (eh...what should i call? Town?!?!?)
Since i believe there are at least 3-4 enemy so far. I believe there's must be a mix train somewhere with FBI and scum vote.
Etc....etc.....if giving a vote opinion, i would vote myself....
Why?
I can't see anything except spam chat of the 3 people, and I can't even contribute if this hot train filled everyone else opinion (me too of course)

[Yukitaka Oni]

RLVG is still a doctor, I don't care if this setup doesn't have one

[Yukitaka Oni]

RLVG is still a doctor, I don't care if this setup doesn't have one

God damn archons, filled all the chat. Like a multiple personality, ffs. Give me reason not to lynch them all......

[yzb25]

GET?
Cancer has too many archons. I avoid
Fire try to sumhunt day 1? Is this real life? Or just another bait for the wagon train?
Most debate fill with cancer, trudean and elephant. Which i rather find other people to read rather than hot-train
While trudeau is getting mad, i think i do not want to talk about it. Frozen is chilling and calm as usual, i would be sad if the FBI pick her, i mean. Come on >)o.o)>!








Something tell me most people in this hot train is mafia (eh...what should i call? Town?!?!?)
Since i believe there are at least 3-4 enemy so far. I believe there's must be a mix train somewhere with FBI and scum vote.
Etc....etc.....if giving a vote opinion, i would vote myself....
Why?
I can't see anything except spam chat of the 3 people, and I can't even contribute if this hot train filled everyone else opinion (me too of course)

Everyone seems scared shitless of Frozen Angel's scumgame. Wtf did she do to you guys? XD

[Yukitaka Oni]

Everyone seems scared shitless of Frozen Angel's scumgame. Wtf did she do to you guys? XD

Frozen did nothing wrong#

[yzb25]

God damn archons, filled all the chat. Like a multiple personality, ffs. Give me reason not to lynch them all......

Tbf, they've been pretty clear about who is who for the most part. I'm more irritated about the fact I have to read / tell apart like 20 people in a 13 player game. Btw:

@ThePaladin has done jackshit. I wasn't even aware he was in this game until an hour or two ago.

[Yukitaka Oni]

Tbf, they've been pretty clear about who is who for the most part. I'm more irritated about the fact I have to read / tell apart like 20 people in a 13 player game. Btw:

@ThePaladin has done jackshit. I wasn't even aware he was in this game until an hour or two ago.

more archons? Again? How can i or anyone read archons?

[yzb25]

more archons? Again? How can i or anyone read archons?

dw dw ThePaladin isn't an archon =P

[deathworlds]

Everyone seems scared shitless of Frozen Angel's scumgame. Wtf did she do to you guys? XD

She got MVP in the first game she played as scum.

[deathworlds]

She got MVP in the first game she played as scum.

In a M-FM

[yzb25]

She got MVP in the first game she played as scum.

Oh.

PL FA for being too gud?

[yzb25]

In a M-FM

Wait, was she Hanzo-or-whatever?

[Elephant]

Wait, was she Hanzo-or-whatever?

That was Unknown

[yzb25]

That was Unknown

Ohh, I must be thinking of a different one. I heard Hanzo played a really strong scumgame. Anyway good on you Unknown lol.

[yzb25]

That was Unknown

I thought you were gonna write some more about RLVG? Sorry if I beat you to it lol.

[Yukitaka Oni]

She got MVP in the first game she played as scum.

Did she playing like a innocent girl?

[deathworlds]

Did she playing like a innocent girl?

She was townread almost the entire game.

[Yukitaka Oni]

Oh.

PL FA for being too gud?

2 gud 4 us
Better start git gud

[Yukitaka Oni]

She was townread almost the entire game.

Should we consider check her tonight? Or lynch her today?

[Yukitaka Oni]

Should we consider check her tonight? Or lynch her today?

Because the last thing i need is getting killed by a beauty without a last will.... (hope janitor does not exist in this game)

[deathworlds]

Should we consider check her tonight? Or lynch her today?

I wouldn't direct TPR, especially when the possibility of the framer.

[Yukitaka Oni]

I wouldn't direct TPR, especially when the possibility of the framer.

Excuse me? Eh...I haven't see framer in the setup. Is that a fixed? Or there is something wrong?!?!?!?

[yzb25]

Vote RLVG with me. He is clearly a superior option to Scrubephant or The Wild Whadi.

[Frozen Angel]

She got MVP in the first game she played as scum.

That wasn't my first mafia game - though I won my first two mafia games which I was scum in both (fire hosted one :P) all out of Sc2

and I was Genji - the poor town who died night 1 in that F-FM you mentioned.

[God Emperor Trudeau]

@God Emperor Trudeau , this is your only and public warning that you MAY NOT quote or pretend to quote conversations within your archon. Per the Rules for Archons:




Furthermore, this is a public announcement that God Emperor Trudeau has made excessive personal attacks and been punished for them. Personal attacks will not be tolerated. You may attack someone's play or their playstyle, but not the player directly.

Didn't realize that was a rule. Don't blame mesk or eggy that was 100% my fault.

This is a public announcement that others made personal attacks first. Do not publicly condemn me if you won't condemn them. I only reacted when provoked. also the line you quoted wasn't a personal attack and I stated how it related to game. Please stop being hypocritical. Do your job. Thanks.

[Frozen Angel]

eaitherway I'm going to sleep - will do my best to get online before EOD.

[MattZed]

Effective immediately, @Iced_Monopoly has replaced ThePaladin.

[Gyrlander]

Didn't realize that was a rule. Don't blame mesk or eggy that was 100% my fault.

This is a public announcement that others made personal attacks first. Do not publicly condemn me if you won't condemn them. I only reacted when provoked. also the line you quoted wasn't a personal attack and I stated how it related to game. Please stop being hypocritical. Do your job. Thanks.

/modkill

[Iced_Monopoly]

So im only 10 pages in so far, and there is noting but shitposting. Can we policy today? I'd like to policy. If god emperor over there doesnt get his ass modkilled, im swinging my vote their way unless the game improves in the next 30 pages (yes im a pleb who doesnt have max posts per page)

[Cancer]

Didn't realize that was a rule. Don't blame mesk or eggy that was 100% my fault.

This is a public announcement that others made personal attacks first. Do not publicly condemn me if you won't condemn them. I only reacted when provoked. also the line you quoted wasn't a personal attack and I stated how it related to game. Please stop being hypocritical. Do your job. Thanks.

Deal with your shit over PM to MZ. Don't make a drama about it in the middle of the game.

[yzb25]

I don't see a world full of butterflies most of times tbh, paranoia - or apealing like I have paranoia in games to make duscussions and do what I do - is my thing mainly.

I don't see your point about why seeing that as town perspective is more plausible. what about him beleiving FB misread the day chat thing was sinscire to drop the first clue he got - without even questioning me - who was a part of that conspirasy theory. what about his "everyone should be sirious to a degree" felt consistant? I'm still not sure what he found not sirious about FB , as he was obviously talking about the game - even when he was role playing so hard - so what about his push on early trolling was sinscire and how is that sinscierness makes him likly town - as scum can troll hunt as well I persume -

and what about his theory was pretty out there? and what are the differences between a theory and accusation?

That's cool. Personally I just try and understand people, and imagine the different cases in which person X would do thing Y.

His view of seriousness is consistent. He thinks people should take their posts seriously to some degree so they are easy to read and misunderstandings can be avoided. FB doing all that RP goes against that, even if FB is contributing.

I think I've already gone into detail about why his troll-pushing feels sincere, and why taking the vote off FB felt sincere.

If you theorize someone is bad for reason X, you're just kind of throwing ideas out there. If you accuse someone of being bad for reason X, you're actually pushing them because of that reason.

As I said, he didn't take the theories he was crafting that far, he was moreso just throwing them out there. This new scumread on me seems a lot more... committed... on the other hand...

I think we've kinda went off-track anyway. Hmm.

[yzb25]

So im only 10 pages in so far, and there is noting but shitposting. Can we policy today? I'd like to policy. If god emperor over there doesnt get his ass modkilled, im swinging my vote their way unless the game improves in the next 30 pages (yes im a pleb who doesnt have max posts per page)

Iiice! It's been a while man! =D

Skip the argument between Trudeau and Empathy. Skip the argument between Cancer and Trudeau. Skip the argument between Trudeau and Elephant too.

Thank me later =P

[Cancer]

Wait we had an Argument?

[God Emperor Trudeau]

So im only 10 pages in so far, and there is noting but shitposting. Can we policy today? I'd like to policy. If god emperor over there doesnt get his ass modkilled, im swinging my vote their way unless the game improves in the next 30 pages (yes im a pleb who doesnt have max posts per page)

Eh don't punish me, i'll give it to ptb real good, don't you worry!
Better keep reading buddy cause town mesk is there.
-mesk

[Cancer]

God fuck 750 posts ish? Maybe I should read some.