S-FM 211 : Three Foes and a Stranger

[Yukitaka Oni]

Hm...finally there is a debate. Guess it worth it after all....

[Drizzt]

He was playing selfishly from the very start BEFORE anyone cared that he existed.

If he had started acting in that manner after I jumped on him, you might have had a point...but I didn't.

I also do not see how you concluded "newb town" over just "newb" or "newb scum" - please clarify.

I just don't see the point in continuing to debate about the non-existence of evidence being put forth as the foundation for any reasonable conclusion. It's like asking me to talk about why I'm not talking about why I have nothing to talk about.

[Quick]

It's funny how you say I am taking things out of context yet you keep misrepresenting my reasoning for scum-reading you.

I'm not scum-reading you for being defensive. RTFT or GTFO.

Why make the comment about me being defensive if it amounts to zilch?? That's the part I really can't get my head around.

Your reasons are your perspective and they don't reflect the truth of what is actually going on. They are subjective to your bias.. you are not reading me and you are not even being 100% logical. If you want, I can go through your points with a fine tooth comb, but I think that would just be an exercise in futility that wouldn't get us anywhere.

[Snorlax]

Why make the comment about me being defensive if it amounts to zilch?? That's the part I really can't get my head around.

Your reasons are your perspective and they don't reflect the truth of what is actually going on. They are subjective to your bias.. you are not reading me and you are not even being 100% logical. If you want, I can go through your points with a fine tooth comb, but I think that would just be an exercise in futility that wouldn't get us anywhere.

Fuck that noise.

My point is that you reacted defensively to an emotionally-based accusation made against you.

This is something that you have cited as a scum tell in a previous game.

Therefore I am scum-reading you because you have done something that you have previously said is scummy.

Conclusion: You are playing in a way that you have deemed scum-motivated. It is likely that you are thinking from a scum perspective as a result.

Makes perfect sense. Just requires meta.

[Quick]

He was playing selfishly from the very start BEFORE anyone cared that he existed.

If he had started acting in that manner after I jumped on him, you might have had a point...but I didn't.

I also do not see how you concluded "newb town" over just "newb" or "newb scum" - please clarify.

He had in mind that he wanted to survive. When the kitchen got hot he decided to claim to take the heat off.

Its town because he has been incredibly consistent in his demeanor. Scum have very real, but subtle differences in attitude that can give them away. This is not the case with him.

[Snorlax]

He had in mind that he wanted to survive. When the kitchen got hot he decided to claim to take the heat off.

Its town because he has been incredibly consistent in his demeanor. Scum have very real, but subtle differences in attitude that can give them away. This is not the case with him.

Why would a Citizen be concerned about survival to the point that it means he contributes nothing and lurks?

In what demeanor? His main stance is that Day 1 reads are useless because there's no concrete evidence which sounds like mod-talk.

[Snorlax]

He had in mind that he wanted to survive. When the kitchen got hot he decided to claim to take the heat off.

Its town because he has been incredibly consistent in his demeanor. Scum have very real, but subtle differences in attitude that can give them away. This is not the case with him.

Why would a Citizen be concerned about survival to the point that it means he contributes nothing and lurks?

In what demeanor? His main stance is that Day 1 reads are useless because there's no concrete evidence which sounds like mod-talk.

[Yukitaka Oni]

Why would a Citizen be concerned about survival to the point that it means he contributes nothing and lurks?

In what demeanor? His main stance is that Day 1 reads are useless because there's no concrete evidence which sounds like mod-talk.

Double post, but don't edit it. Leave it be

[Quick]

Fuck that noise.

My point is that you reacted defensively to an emotionally-based accusation made against you.

This is something that you have cited as a scum tell in a previous game.

Therefore I am scum-reading you because you have done something that you have previously said is scummy.

Conclusion: You are playing in a way that you have deemed scum-motivated. It is likely that you are thinking from a scum perspective as a result.

Makes perfect sense. Just requires meta.

Obviously I can't change my mind on anything... Last game I played here was Overwatch. In that very game you convinced me that defensiveness is not a Scum tell at all. Are you backing away from that?

Meta is only an addition to a read, not the whole kit and kaboodle. This is just one example where your read on me is really pretty superficial and misses the mark in a big way. That is why I am Scum reading you - because I don't think you can be this off normally.

[Drizzt]

He had in mind that he wanted to survive. When the kitchen got hot he decided to claim to take the heat off.

Its town because he has been incredibly consistent in his demeanor. Scum have very real, but subtle differences in attitude that can give them away. This is not the case with him.

I appreciate the compliment about being consistent. I'd hate to think I was being inconsistent with my naïve thinking and reasoning It's like getting partial credit on a math test where even though you were wrong, the teacher could follow your line of thinking as it was logical.

[Snorlax]

Obviously I can't change my mind on anything... Last game I played here was Overwatch. In that very game you convinced me that defensiveness is not a Scum tell at all. Are you backing away from that?

Meta is only an addition to a read, not the whole kit and kaboodle. This is just one example where your read on me is really pretty superficial and misses the mark in a big way. That is why I am Scum reading you - because I don't think you can be this off normally.

I considered that but if you had actually changed your stance, you would have said as much when I made the initial accusation. Thus your "changed mind" explanation is void.

I mislynched four times in Overwatch.

I was also wrong about every single scum-read I had in Mafia Wars II (another game we played together)

It makes no sense for your scum-read of me to be because "you are never this off normally" when the games we have been in together were games where I was horrendously off with my reads.

[Drizzt]

Why would a Citizen be concerned about survival to the point that it means he contributes nothing and lurks?

In what demeanor? His main stance is that Day 1 reads are useless because there's no concrete evidence which sounds like mod-talk.

Newb question, what is mod talk?

[Quick]

Why would a Citizen be concerned about survival to the point that it means he contributes nothing and lurks?

In what demeanor? His main stance is that Day 1 reads are useless because there's no concrete evidence which sounds like mod-talk.

You are sorely missing the big picture here. You mean to tell me you have never run into a new player who was worried about surviving? You gotta be kidding me here.

His main stance is not wanting to mess things up, that is what is dictating his whole play this game. I read it as Town because its incredibly consistent throughout the whole game. Usually a newb scum would want to try and pull something by now, but the kid remains consistent that he doesn't want to mess anything up. He doesn't want to eat a lynch, he doesn't want to be wrong. You are seriously not getting this? You just picking an easy target?

[Yukitaka Oni]

Last.

Anyway, I'll start off with an opening message to the new players and smurfs in the game.

1. Don't be afraid to post your opinions on the game. Even if you're unsure of something, saying as much or trying to talk through your thought process is a lot better than not posting. (it helps the town get a read on you)

2. If you think someone is scummy or made an odd post, you should 100% be questioning them about it.

3. Remember that most of the players you'll be talking to are town. Don't immediately assume that just because someone is playing badly means that they are mafia. It's good to view what people are posting from a town/ mafia perspective to see which one makes the most sense. (think "why would X alignment post this? What are they saying and trying to achieve here? Could they have an agenda behind posting this? What's the context?")

4. Don't randomly role-claim just because someone is suspecting/ pressuring you. This just helps the scum narrow down what townies have what roles a lot more easily.

(in fact, best not to give out your role unless you are close to being lynched and people are asking you for it. And even then, be cautious about doing that)

5. To the Citizens, these points are especially applicable because citizens are there to take the hit for TPRs. The more players help the town, the easier it is to find the scum.

6. Feel free to give a read on what my alignment could be based off this post if you want somewhere to start off

7. And if you're confused on anything, feel free to ask us or the host any questions.

Number 4 seem funny compare with Drizzt

[Snorlax]

Newb question, what is mod talk?

When you use reasoning that gives away the fact that you come from the sc2mod.

Stereo is the textbook example of this.

[Yukitaka Oni]

Number 4 seem funny compare with Drizzt

And number 5 seem like having a same idea with me

[Quick]

I considered that but if you had actually changed your stance, you would have said as much when I made the initial accusation. Thus your "changed mind" explanation is void.

I mislynched four times in Overwatch.

I was also wrong about every single scum-read I had in Mafia Wars II (another game we played together)

It makes no sense for your scum-read of me to be because "you are never this off normally" when the games we have been in together were games where I was horrendously off with my reads.

You don't get what I am saying and are starting to fall under the confbias stage.. I've seen it a million times.

The points you are making are not lining up with the big picture at all. You are dissecting tiny insignificant details that don't make of much. You are majoring on minors. You've gone full bore and are no longer thinking but just blindly attacking. You haven't even stopped to reconsider your read on me.

[Snorlax]

You are sorely missing the big picture here. You mean to tell me you have never run into a new player who was worried about surviving? You gotta be kidding me here.

His main stance is not wanting to mess things up, that is what is dictating his whole play this game. I read it as Town because its incredibly consistent throughout the whole game. Usually a newb scum would want to try and pull something by now, but the kid remains consistent that he doesn't want to mess anything up. He doesn't want to eat a lynch, he doesn't want to be wrong. You are seriously not getting this? You just picking an easy target?

Not really, no.

I don't get the 'not wanting to mess things up' stance. That seems more applicable to Mr. Let's Not Lynch Today Because Day 1 Lynches Usually Hit Town AKA Stereo but I don't recall you town-reading him for that. (correct me if I'm wrong for I didn't check)

His stance is more "there's no concrete information to form reads" not "I don't want to fuck up"

I don't read it as town mainly because I've seen a few scum players on this site use similar reasoning so he could be one of them. However I can see town not knowing how to form reads on players so I don't consider that to be AI.

[Drizzt]

Number 4 seem funny compare with Drizzt

I have no defense for number 4. I certainly did give away the punch line prematurely. For that I am guilty, my apologies.

[Snorlax]

You don't get what I am saying and are starting to fall under the confbias stage.. I've seen it a million times.

The points you are making are not lining up with the big picture at all. You are dissecting tiny insignificant details that don't make of much. You are majoring on minors. You've gone full bore and are no longer thinking but just blindly attacking. You haven't even stopped to reconsider your read on me.

Again, this makes NO sense. I'm not tunneling. You have seen me legitimately tunnel players in the games I've pointed out.

You're trying to paint my legitimate pushes as 'blindly attacking' when I have been reasonable with what I've been saying.

[Drizzt]

When you use reasoning that gives away the fact that you come from the sc2mod.

Stereo is the textbook example of this.

Did you believe saying it a second time would enlighten me on it's meaning?

[Snorlax]

Did you believe saying it a second time would enlighten me on it's meaning?

When you say things like "Day 1 reads are speculative. TPRs haven't done anything yet" it sounds like you come from the mod because there is a greater focus on TPRs and night actions there over day chat analysis.

I can't explain it any better than that.

[SecondLynch]

1. Lack of Proactiveness

Is this town insecure eggy or trying to improve scum eggy?

Doesn’t actually give an opinion.

What's not being said:
RVS- Unknown has not voted, nor has he commented on why he hasn't.
Hasn't posted about the main trains.
Interacts with mostly Never Unlucky when he HASN'T scum read Unknown, and less with other players.


2. Shade

If you don't find it scummy, then that is fine. What is important is what you DO find scummy, which as far as I've seen that is nothing.

Gyrlander’s posts are not nothing. This is an easy characterization. I do not see a willingness to read Gyrlander’s role. This is Shade.


[QUOTE=Unknown1234;639606]Why list all possibilities? Everyone should know that every scenario is possible.

But does everyone actually know all the scenarios? Why NOT list all possibilities?
Shade throw without an appreciation for the analysis, nor a proposition of a counter hypothesis.

Why would somebody say "let's lynch scum" those were my words (not exactly) in my first game and I said such to look more town. I don't see why somebody needs to state they need to lynch scum rather then just doing it.

Doesn’t actually scum read stereo. Shade on Stereo’s read.

You accomplish so much by saying "Shade Throw".

Shade Throws a shade throw.

3. Perspective

If you are saying my play is similar to my game as scum, you should know how my scum play was. ^-^

A characterization of “NU thinks Unknown is scum” without NU actually thinking Unknown is scum. Nowhere in the quote he quoted does NU say “Unknown is scum”.
Makes a whole lot of sense if Unknown is scum and is using self-meta to dig himself out.

So, what would happen if secondpassing said Unknown is scum? Let’s go find out.

No, LMAO. It doesn't matter who posted it, to me it still feels like you planned to attack me regardless. You haven't successfully read me yet, and conveniently the only one you have been focused intently on reading is Calix. Keep that in mind.

Another attack thing. Unknown seems to feel very threatened, when NU hasn't attacked him. He is very self-concerned, and is reading everything against him as an attack.

It had NOTHING to do with being shady. Nothing that I said makes sense from a scum perspective because it's from my trolling perspective. You should be able to identify it.

Context: NU does NOT call Unknown shady.
Unknown thinks NU calls him shady, why? Because Unknown is aware that he IS shady.
The perspective of knowing that you are scum and trash.

Yours Truly,
secondpassing

[Yukitaka Oni]

When you say things like "Day 1 reads are speculative. TPRs haven't done anything yet" it sounds like you come from the mod because there is a greater focus on TPRs and night actions there over day chat analysis.

I can't explain it any better than that.

I'm from both mod and forum but I find this funny and true

[Drizzt]

When you say things like "Day 1 reads are speculative. TPRs haven't done anything yet" it sounds like you come from the mod because there is a greater focus on TPRs and night actions there over day chat analysis.

I can't explain it any better than that.

Ahh, so mod is another term for the game in which this whole site is named after? If that is true than yes, I am deeply experienced with the "mod", and all of my playing will reflect that until I can ascertain the differences and expectations.

[RLVG]

It's Last Will Allowed Host?

For all except the sexy roleblockers.

[Snorlax]

Re: Unknown's case, I like SP's point when he says that Unknown jumps to the conclusion that people are scum-reading him because he is acutely aware that he is scum.

AKA Point #3 is the strongest in my opinion.

[SecondLynch]

Ahh, so mod is another term for the game in which this whole site is named after? If that is true than yes, I am deeply experienced with the "mod", and all of my playing will reflect that until I can ascertain the differences and expectations.

Do you play starcraft two mafia arcade mod? That is what they are talking about.

Drizzt, your thoughts on Quick?

[SecondLynch]

neither

@Eggy

[Drizzt]

Do you play starcraft two mafia arcade mod? That is what they are talking about.

Drizzt, your thoughts on Quick?

Yes good sir, I am BrockSamson on the mod. As to quick and being defensive, I would only say that being overly defensive in respect to the mod is usually an indication that the player is inexperienced or has something to hide. Whether or not that is true in FM is unknown to me.

[SecondLynch]

For everyone saying that "Oh burden of proof wah wah wah!"

No.

This is not the criminal justice system. We are using capital punishment in a boat of low posters, and it is your duty to be town so that we can read you.

[SecondLynch]

Yes good sir, I am BrockSamson on the mod. As to quick and being defensive, I would only say that being overly defensive in respect to the mod is usually an indication that the player is inexperienced or has something to hide. Whether or not that is true in FM is unknown to me.

Let's assume that there are no power roles (no doctor, no sheriff). It would make sense for you to lynch everyday.
Since this is a text based game, it is in your best interests to read.

Who would you lynch given that there are supposedly no power roles?

[Snorlax]

Oh.

Well if he is scum, then I feel bad for being that aggressive because rolling scum on your first FM game is going to be rough no matter what.

[Drizzt]

Let's assume that there are no power roles (no doctor, no sheriff). It would make sense for you to lynch everyday.
Since this is a text based game, it is in your best interests to read.

Who would you lynch given that there are supposedly no power roles?

Wowzers, thank you that makes a heck of a difference. I'll need to go back to the beginning of the posts to before this tangent. I'll post later, I'm still at work/class and I'd like to make a semi-smart statement.

[Quick]

Not really, no.

I don't get the 'not wanting to mess things up' stance. That seems more applicable to Mr. Let's Not Lynch Today Because Day 1 Lynches Usually Hit Town AKA Stereo but I don't recall you town-reading him for that. (correct me if I'm wrong for I didn't check)

His stance is more "there's no concrete information to form reads" not "I don't want to fuck up"

I don't read it as town mainly because I've seen a few scum players on this site use similar reasoning so he could be one of them. However I can see town not knowing how to form reads on players so I don't consider that to be AI.

Very next post:

I have no defense for number 4. I certainly did give away the punch line prematurely. For that I am guilty, my apologies.

Again, this makes NO sense. I'm not tunneling. You have seen me legitimately tunnel players in the games I've pointed out.

You're trying to paint my legitimate pushes as 'blindly attacking' when I have been reasonable with what I've been saying.

You have come across reasonable, yes, i agree. But you are looking at thing on too much of a surface level. I don't go just based on what someone says, I go based off how they say it and eventually a pattern starts to emerge as what that player is like personally so I can get a better idea of their perspective. i then match up what I think to be their perspective and try and measure that up with if that perspective is coming from Town or Scum FOR THEM. General tells are pretty much garbage in my book.. I've seen way too many players error on the side of what is IMMEDIATELY tangible rather than trying to understand the person behind what is said. Its a cornerstone to the way I play mafia and it makes it damn hard to play that way as Scum.

There is some basis to you reads but they aren't taking into account the peripheral characteristics of what is going on, like for example: if a sensitive type of Town player just gets hammered with a strong case against them and then another person comes up with a shit reason for Scum reading them, they are going to disproportionately put extra effort into the shitty case against them. I look at that stuff, prolly too much.




I'm going to reread the thread and see if I can find anything.

[SecondLynch]

Let's see if he comes up with anything.

I'd much rather vote Unknown at this point, but I'm going to have to discuss with NU when he comes back. He seems to be town reading Unknown for his abrasiveness.

[Yukitaka Oni]

For all except the sexy roleblockers.

Janitor?

[Snorlax]

Quick, you still haven't answered why you town-read Drizzt because he "doesn't want to mess up" with lynches but didn't town-read Stereo using this reasoning.

Please explain this discrepancy.

[Unknown1234]

[QUOTE=SecondLynch;639750]1. Lack of Proactiveness


Doesn’t actually give an opinion.

What's not being said:
RVS- Unknown has not voted, nor has he commented on why he hasn't.
Hasn't posted about the main trains.
Interacts with mostly Never Unlucky when he HASN'T scum read Unknown, and less with other players.


2. Shade



Gyrlander’s posts are not nothing. This is an easy characterization. I do not see a willingness to read Gyrlander’s role. This is Shade.

Why list all possibilities? Everyone should know that every scenario is possible.

But does everyone actually know all the scenarios? Why NOT list all possibilities?
Shade throw without an appreciation for the analysis, nor a proposition of a counter hypothesis.



Doesn’t actually scum read stereo. Shade on Stereo’s read.


Shade Throws a shade throw.

3. Perspective


A characterization of “NU thinks Unknown is scum” without NU actually thinking Unknown is scum. Nowhere in the quote he quoted does NU say “Unknown is scum”.
Makes a whole lot of sense if Unknown is scum and is using self-meta to dig himself out.

So, what would happen if secondpassing said Unknown is scum? Let’s go find out.



Another attack thing. Unknown seems to feel very threatened, when NU hasn't attacked him. He is very self-concerned, and is reading everything against him as an attack.



Context: NU does NOT call Unknown shady.
Unknown thinks NU calls him shady, why? Because Unknown is aware that he IS shady.
The perspective of knowing that you are scum and trash.

Yours Truly,
secondpassing

2.) is not a scum-tell, and I will gladly say this right now. Everyone does it, and the only reason I brought it up is because NU triggers me with this word.

The opinion itself is what I said. "Insecure town or scum trying to improve" if I haven't heard enough from Eggy to make a conclusion then that is that.

I can understand my reactions with others are limited, but to say I rarely interact is not at all true. When I'm around i talk to whoever is there, or if someone directs comments to me.

To comment on me mostly talking to NU, in this particular time I am usually messaging inbetween classes, so if somebody directs things at me I will have that take priority with my limited time. I can add on that other parts of the day are usually more flexible, but Monday's are my more busy day so I can see why I have not actively participated.

Why I haven't voted. I don't know why I need to explain it as it is not necessary right now, but because I haven't been around enough to be able to push someone. I've done this before, and I know I've said this before, so sometimes I do not have enough time to place my vote and follow through with it. It's a pressure vote so I feel that I should be pressuring with it. Otherwise, no.

This is where I lose you. I will admit that I change words in phrases, whether he specifically said I was scum, or something very similar, I might not use the same wording. Shady is an example of that too where he doesn't specifically use shady but he has other word choices that are relatable to it.

If I think it was an attack, then I will say that. One of you, I don't care which, made an early leap on me based off of something I have argued isn't the scum like thing to do. Why does that bother me? Because it seems too oppourtunistic and is a really poorly justified accusation on me.

I mean, I realize you spent an entire paragraph telling me how I throw shade, but you honestly don't need to call me trash.

So, I will say that my wording is not always perfect, and I have been lynched before as town by saying this. Arguably, I don't make this many "errors" when I am scum and I'm almost never accurately read as scum when I am. Whether this is your level of me "slipping" if I was scum I am a lot more careful with my wording then I am when I'm town. Why? Because I don't care.

I am sorry I just keep rambling on, but calling me self-concerned and saying its a scum thing is wrong. Anyone following that logic has hit their head too many times because that doesn't classify me as scum. I am self-concerned as town all the time, which relates to right now.

[Unknown1234]

Drizzt/ Quick/ Char Char or dezkai for Mafia. (not because I have any read on the lurkers, but because nobody else is really giving me Mafia vibes so I suspect there are only two active Mafia)

Was thinking about this, but decided that neutral-hunting only helps the Mafia know who to avoid, so if I have any thoughts on who the Neutral could be, I'm with-holding my thoughts on them for now for that reason.

What about you?

I know this isn't hard solid, nor what I'm about to say is either though, but this seems like an extremely unlikely scum team given you're suggesting it has two noobs and one who isn't terribly experienced either (in his own opinion)

[Unknown1234]

God damn it. The main reason for the game is to encourage player to conversation. Not to playing mute....just calm down and let's talk slowly. You don't have to be panic like that. Now let's start talking different subject:
Who do you think is scum?
- Who do you think is town? And why?

Just noting this, but why haven't you answered this?

[Unknown1234]

Not liking this look from yuki.

Why?

[Unknown1234]

20 new posts and hardly anything interesting happened.



You want to go into more detail here? "talking weirder" lolwut

And does this mean you are town-reading me this game? You keep saying "her scum play is different" but you haven't actually given a read on me.



Given that you didn't even acknowledge my post, I'm going with "claimed a role early on so that people fuck off and don't vote for you"

However no Citizen would claim that early when it had already been decided that random-ass role claims were anti-town.

You are STILL not contributing. All you have done is say "my contributions are worthless because I'm new" and "I'm going to give town some useless and anti-town WIFOM with an unnecessary role claim" - THIS DOES NOT HELP TOWN IN ANY WAY.

TPR would not do this because a TPR would still be TRYING to contribute without sticking their neck out. You are just being disruptive with WIFOM.

Lynch this pls.

Only about the top part, but yes I think it's very obvious that you're town this game. You seem more focused, actually intent on causing correct Lynches, more open, in comparison to past play as scum I could see a huge difference in how you were leading the town.

[Unknown1234]

Unknown, the scum don't have a day chat. Why are you saying shit like "you planned to attack me with your team mate"? Read the setup.

Secondly, your argument is "NU is pushing me based on minor points" - did you forget the entirety of BFN? lol

Because of two things.

1.) when you have a teammate, communication with them is possible.

2.) you can still plan it yourself. I'm known to be lynched as town, that much is obvious.

[Unknown1234]

I have no defense for number 4. I certainly did give away the punch line prematurely. For that I am guilty, my apologies.

I don't remember seeing if you answered this already, but why did you claim Citizen right after someone thought your first post was off, and that person conveniently is the person who accused you originally?

[Snorlax]

I know this isn't hard solid, nor what I'm about to say is either though, but this seems like an extremely unlikely scum team given you're suggesting it has two noobs and one who isn't terribly experienced either (in his own opinion)

Literally I laugh at you.

1. RLVG randomises the player list to roles.

2. What the fuck does experience have to do with scum team possibilities?

3. Almost nobody in this game is experienced.

[Unknown1234]

Re: Unknown's case, I like SP's point when he says that Unknown jumps to the conclusion that people are scum-reading him because he is acutely aware that he is scum.

AKA Point #3 is the strongest in my opinion.

Any particular reason why you specifically agree with it towards myself?

[Unknown1234]

Literally I laugh at you.

1. RLVG randomises the player list to roles.

2. What the fuck does experience have to do with scum team possibilities?

3. Almost nobody in this game is experienced.

You can argue that he ransoms the team list, but technically if the scum-team ended up being three beginners I'm sure he would tweak it or randomize it again. So my point is you can't know what happens behind the scenes and so it feels unlikely to me for that scum-team.

Why put three beginners at scum? They will out themselves easily with less experience.

Fine. I'll phrase it more as "more experienced then others"

[Snorlax]

Any particular reason why you specifically agree with it towards myself?

You over-reacted to NU and I agreed with the point where SP said that NU didn't state a scum-read on you but you acted like he did.

I didn't read your wall-post so if there's a counter to this you're going to have to fish it out for me. The length itself tells me that you care way too much about defending yourself.

[Snorlax]

You can argue that he ransoms the team list, but technically if the scum-team ended up being three beginners I'm sure he would tweak it or randomize it again. So my point is you can't know what happens behind the scenes and so it feels unlikely to me for that scum-team.

Why put three beginners at scum? They will out themselves easily with less experience.

Fine. I'll phrase it more as "more experienced then others"

Host meta is retarded. Don't waste my time with nonsense.