S-FM 211 : Three Foes and a Stranger

[Unknown1234]

My case was completely valid, nobody read my points, however except SL who has ignored most of what I've said to just lynch me off since he thought i was scum

[AnassRhamur]

Reading through 51 pages is making me want to kill myself

anyone got adderall or vyvanse for me? ill even take ritalin

[JealousTL]

No, your case was not completely valid, as I addressed on multiple points in previous posts. Please look back to see my rebuttal on at least three points that you brought up as damning.

[AnassRhamur]

DEY DUN KILL MESK CUZ SHE 2 HOT ON THEIR TRAIL
SHE DUN BLAME MATT, JEALOUS N UNKNOWN.

-vote JealousTL

[Eggy]

-vote secondlynch

[Unknown1234]

-vote secondlynch

Really? Why?

[Unknown1234]

Zzz. Jealous is at L-1, etc etc. No point in early hammering.

[Unknown1234]

Actually, Jealous has done nothing today other then read and leave so I don't really know what to say. I also don't like this counter train building up.

[AnassRhamur]

-unvote

HOLY SHIT THATS SOME VOTING POWER

[Unknown1234]

-unvote

HOLY SHIT THATS SOME VOTING POWER

Yeah, grants you two votes.

Thoughts on stuff?

[Eggy]

Really? Why?

everyone get your votes off JT he is not SK and I really dont see him being last scum. Mesk roleblocked him n1 she soft claimed it in post 673 679 by saying she fucked him and decided he is not SK. Her being escort meaning her fucking him was roleblocking him. I also knew she was escort because she soft claimed when DW asked if anyone was roleblocked and she said no.

[Eggy]

if you lynch JT i guarantee its a mislynch. unknown is most likely town and someone is trying to frame him by killing mesk because she was the prsom who was pushing him the hsrdest. Scum unknown would never be dumb enough to kill the person trying to get him lynched.

[Unknown1234]

everyone get your votes off JT he is not SK and I really dont see him being last scum. Mesk roleblocked him n1 she soft claimed it in post 673 679 by saying she fucked him and decided he is not SK. Her being escort meaning her fucking him was roleblocking him. I also knew she was escort because she soft claimed when DW asked if anyone was roleblocked and she said no.

Do you mind giving me a good reason why he isn't scum with Stereo? Seems more likely than anyone else.

Going to check that post.

[Eggy]

Do you mind giving me a good reason why he isn't scum with Stereo? Seems more likely than anyone else.

Going to check that post.

I just really doubt it. I didnt see anything from his play that pings me as I had him as a possible neutral but now I realized its impossible. I dont see a scum tie between him and stereo. If I had to make a guess SL is last scum and gyrlander is neutral

[Eggy]

i really think we shud lynch Gyrl tbh been afk entire time only shows up when people are tlkn bout him and his play this game doesnt seem anything like what ive seen from him as town in the past If anything it is a very good policy lynch

[Unknown1234]

Before you reach a comclusion about the Escort roleblock in Jealous, I need to check if this has been answered already, but what if Quick and Mesk roleblocked the same person?

[Unknown1234]

Before you reach a comclusion about the Escort roleblock in Jealous, I need to check if this has been answered already, but what if Quick and Mesk roleblocked the same person?

And that person happened to be sk* sorry I left out the conclusion but Jealous could be serial killer depending on how this works.

[MattZed]

Before you reach a comclusion about the Escort roleblock in Jealous, I need to check if this has been answered already, but what if Quick and Mesk roleblocked the same person?

I am rather sure this is impossible because the setups suggests SK doesn't get their normal kill when they are roleblocked, and thus if Mesk blocked the SK, the SK couldn't have killed a mafia.

[Unknown1234]

I am rather sure this is impossible because the setups suggests SK doesn't get their normal kill when they are roleblocked, and thus if Mesk blocked the SK, the SK couldn't have killed a mafia.

I'm assuming Quick roleblocked the serial killer, because I see no other reason to kill Quick.

If Quick went for the roleblock first, he dies. No?

[Eggy]

there is no way JT is SK and im not really understand what ur getting at.

[Eggy]

JT is not a good vote IMO what so ever he is not a killing role.

[Eggy]

mafia might have a mafioso as the last role which would mean that cant be JT either because mafioso would definately be the one performing night kills.

[Eggy]

everyone should really get there votes of JT I repeat

[Unknown1234]

there is no way JT is SK and im not really understand what ur getting at.

It's not a difficult concept to follow.

One Escort and One Consort. They both roleblock the serial killer. Who dies? I'll assume it's whoever sends in their action first.

If you don't agree with me, then why would someone kill Quick?

Separate question: you always vote me and NU/SP so I do not trust your judgemenf. Ignoring Jealous here, what makes you think that NU is scummier thEn he usually is? What do you think of Stereo and Jealous buddying one another?

[deathworlds]

If two different role-blockers target a serial killer, do one or both of them die? If only one dies, which one does?

[Unknown1234]

If two different role-blockers target a serial killer, do one or both of them die? If only one dies, which one does?

@RLVG

[MattZed]

everyone should really get there votes of JT I repeat

I take it you're claiming to be an investigator who at some point checked JT. I'm not going to tolerate this as a gambit. If you're gonna come out and claim an investigative role, be outright with it.

I await your response.

-unvote

[JealousTL]

I'm assuming Quick roleblocked the serial killer, because I see no other reason to kill Quick.

If Quick went for the roleblock first, he dies. No?

Both will die, according to the set-up.

"Serial Killer
- Target someone during night to attack them.
- Any attempted roleblock on the Serial Killer causes the Serial Killer to instead attack the Roleblocker.
- Can be roleblocked by multiple roleblocks at the same time."

Note: "ANY attempted roleblock... causes the Serial Killer to instead attack the Roleblocker... Can be roleblocked by multiple at the same time..."

And yes, Mesk did say "she fucked me" and therefore I can't be SK.

[JealousTL]

Actually, Jealous has done nothing today other then read and leave so I don't really know what to say. I also don't like this counter train building up.

Actually, I told you that I countered many of your arguments about me and then I invited you to go back and revisit my rebuttals and maybe finally offer an answer, but instead you sit here and claim I do nothing. Zzzz

I also explained my mindset behind a SL lynch, and my PoE. And other things. Please, stop minimizing my posts while simultaneously refusing to respond to the points directed at you. Your tunneling isn't helping town; I repeat, I am town.

[Unknown1234]

Actually, I told you that I countered many of your arguments about me and then I invited you to go back and revisit my rebuttals and maybe finally offer an answer, but instead you sit here and claim I do nothing. Zzzz

I also explained my mindset behind a SL lynch, and my PoE. And other things. Please, stop minimizing my posts while simultaneously refusing to respond to the points directed at you. Your tunneling isn't helping town; I repeat, I am town.

Considering this "POE" is how you almost Lynched me yesterday, I failed to agree with your reasoning of "SL and Unknown can't be town together". You say that that kind of argument can't happen, but it's a fairly consistent thing that happens to us and I really don't see why it makes him scum.

Note to previous post, it does not say that all roleblockers die from serial killer, but that doesn't mean all roleblockers die. I just want clarification.

Aside from that, you jumping on me yesterday was really rotten and has lacked town motivation. You go from town-reading me to willing to put me on the line because my argument was "oppourtunistic" and yet you agreed with most of what I've said.

Another note, I've argued with people about the same stuff over and over and so I don't feel like refuting the same stuff. Point is, whether you are or can't be sk, it doesn't exclude you from being mafia.

[deathworlds]

Both will die, according to the set-up.

"Serial Killer
- Target someone during night to attack them.
- Any attempted roleblock on the Serial Killer causes the Serial Killer to instead attack the Roleblocker.
- Can be roleblocked by multiple roleblocks at the same time."

Note: "ANY attempted roleblock... causes the Serial Killer to instead attack the Roleblocker... Can be roleblocked by multiple at the same time..."

And yes, Mesk did say "she fucked me" and therefore I can't be SK.

You're being very opportunistic.

[SecondLynch]

If two different role-blockers target a serial killer, do one or both of them die? If only one dies, which one does?

"I have done both" (Proving my point) -- Calls it a shade-throw.

Legit.

@RLVG -- If multiple escorts/consorts role-block the serial killer, will they all die?
fixed

Yes.



Yes.



No.

I have already asked this question. 400 posts before. Mesk would be a gonner if Jealous was Le SK.

[SecondLynch]

everyone get your votes off JT he is not SK and I really dont see him being last scum. Mesk roleblocked him n1 she soft claimed it in post 673 679 by saying she fucked him and decided he is not SK. Her being escort meaning her fucking him was roleblocking him. I also knew she was escort because she soft claimed when DW asked if anyone was roleblocked and she said no.

She soft-claimed waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaay earlier. Right from the start.

Oh Jesus this is Calix.

Ugh, just read between the line -.-

I dont see how stating that I now demand to get paid when I'm ripped on is seen as being defensive.

Jesus, too many accounts with names that ive never seen.

Uh... me? Defensive? Nah l not even. Just know there is always a price to pay. You wanna rip on me, fine. But this time I'm charging

anyone who can read can pretty much figure out I'm confirmed.

[JealousTL]

You're being very opportunistic.

Lol? By confirming something that was said? I didn't want to be the one to bring it up unless it became necessary, but if someone else does so then I will confirm it. Please, calm down.

[SecondLynch]

I made a case on you, a much better case than anyone has made on anyone to date. Your case on me was wrought with holes. I pointed them out. You have responded in detail to neither my case on you nor my showing the holes in your case. Please step out of the tunnel for a moment.

I am surprised by Stereo's flip, and also question why SK (if that is the case, which seems to be the overwhelming possibility) would target him. I will think on that later. Perhaps there is indeed a busdriver.

I still find it hard to believe that Unknown1234 vs. SL was TvT or SvS; it makes sense that Unknown1234 didn't get NK because he was just 1 vote shy of being lynched, but SL remaining alive does not make much sense to me. I'm going to turn around my read on Unknown vs. SL due to this. I will have to re-examine SL's D2 play, but for now I will park here.

-vote SecondLynch

Working off PoE, if SL is the scum, then it is impossible for MattZed to be neutral. That's all I have for now, lots of work to do. I will add more tomorrow.

Yesterday you were saying that Unknown vs. SL was TvS with unknown being scum or TvT. Now it doesn't make sense for it to be TvT? Explain.

Also, yesterday you said that Quick vs. SL seemed too long of an interaction to be SvS. What made you change your mind?

Why doesn't it make sense for us to be alive but it makes sense for MattZed, deathworlds, you and Yuki to be alive?

[JealousTL]

Another note, I've argued with people about the same stuff over and over and so I don't feel like refuting the same stuff. Point is, whether you are or can't be sk, it doesn't exclude you from being mafia.

Sorry, going to call bullshit on this. You say that 1. I am too friendly and don't push anyone, and that makes me neutral, 2. I "excluded" SK from my analysis wall post, 3. That I was townreading you until I made an "opportunistic" flip, which are ALL points I've refuted, with evidence where applicable and logic otherwise. Anyone here is free to check up my post history for that.

Instead of responding, you oh-so-conveniently decide that "you don't feel like refuting the same stuff" when this is in fact was our first confrontation on all of the above subjects. You made your argument, I made a rebuttal, and now you "don't feel like refuting the same stuff." This is physically impossible, since you never refuted it to begin with. That's some solid dodging you're doing. Then, you have the audacity to restating one of your arguments all over again, while ignoring the other facts on which you've been proven wrong. THAT is truly rotten behavior - seeking to mislead others about the nature of the passage of events by simply ignoring things. If you really are town, please act like it.

[JealousTL]

Yesterday you were saying that Unknown vs. SL was TvS with unknown being scum or TvT. Now it doesn't make sense for it to be TvT? Explain.

Also, yesterday you said that Quick vs. SL seemed too long of an interaction to be SvS. What made you change your mind?

Why doesn't it make sense for us to be alive but it makes sense for MattZed, deathworlds, you and Yuki to be alive?

Pretty sure I said it was TvS with Unknown being S and you being T, but if Unknown flipped T I wouldn't automatically put you in the S pile. The fact that you didn't get NK is raising my suspicions, while Unknown not being lynched with only 2 scum and 1 SK in the game who would profit from a potential ML on him is not scum AI.

In retrospect, you are both the type of players to pull a stunt of this nature.

You were by far the most active. It is quite obvious that there are/were a lot of suspicions about me, so there is no need for scum to be rid of me, MattZed's player hasn't done a single thing so he would be very convenient to keep in the endgame, deathworlds just spews reads and votes everywhere which almost no one follows, and Yuki would be likely to be protected because she was confirmed mayor (and I haven't seen Yuki being a driving town force in any game so far, so they aren't exactly high on Mafia's threat list). The only explanation for your not being NK, in my eyes, is due to your push on Unknown being faulty, which might be part of the reason why I was kept around as well, leading my logic to flow full circle on this.

[SecondLynch]

I don't even.

Should probably not be using host meta on RLVG.

In other news, given that we're almost certain Mafia killed Mesk, (only other possibility is that there's a witch and a vig who was witched N1 but didn't feel like then revealing himself) why? Mafia killed Calix N1 and thus seemed to be setting up a pattern of going for the more active and experienced players. But then... Mesk?

This gives me a question: Why is SecondLynch, who has more experienced players and was more active than Mesk, alive? What Mafia wouldn't murder the shit out of them?

Possibilities:
1. SecondLynch is the last mafia
2. SL was in fact were targeted, and there is some bus driving going around. (Or I suppose they were bold enough to target mayor and mayor got swapped)
3. Mafia knew Mesk was a TPR, either with their unrevealed investigative or from some softclaim I haven't picked up on.
4. Mafia somehow considered her a bigger threat.

I don't think there is that pattern that you think of. With a Calix and a Mesk vote, mafia may have been going for players that were pushing them to help themselves not get lynched.
I'm also not that experienced :D

3 and 4 are the same and are probably true

[SecondLynch]

Well, since Yuki is confirmed (and gone, hooray!), then I have only one option left.

-vote Unknown1234

That was pretty. It was very pretty~

But for real—
Why were you so reluctant to vote Unknown1234 before the end of the day? Were you going for a anti-no-lynch this day?

[SecondLynch]

Stereo's only vote yesterday. Gonna guess Unknown isn't Mafia.

From a quick look at their interactions, I can buy JTL as a partner to Stereo.

-vote JealousTL

My scum read on Unknown is weakening every post he makes. Either he just knows how to convince me I that he is town every single game, or that I'm just that stupid.
He never did give a counter-response to my day one case, but he's been changing his behavior to not match it. Either he found more time? Is trying to weasel me out of reading him badly?
Since its been pretty progressive, I'll just say he's kinda town right now.

I wonder if I should bring my gut out.

[SecondLynch]

My case was completely valid, nobody read my points, however except SL who has ignored most of what I've said to just lynch me off since he thought i was scum

Never Unlucky does that every game. Forgive him. He did the same to me as well.

[AnassRhamur]

Later tonight i will put out two bowls for my dog. One labeled Gyrlander and the other labeled JealousTL.
They will be equidistant and the dog will be faced perpendicular to both bowls. They will both contain an equal amount of food. Whichever bowl the dog goes to receives my vote

[JealousTL]

That was pretty. It was very pretty~

But for real—
Why were you so reluctant to vote Unknown1234 before the end of the day? Were you going for a anti-no-lynch this day?

I wouldn't say I was entirely reluctant. I feel a person have more motivation to sway their accuser if the accuser's vote is not yet cast. Also, it helps me stay objective, because I can argue more empirically and not with the mindset of "this is my read, this is my vote, and I will defend it." In other words, trying to prevent myself from tunneling and giving people an opportunity to present a counter-case or otherwise convince me. However, Unknown was my strongest scum read, and Yuki was my strongest neutral/scum-read, which turned out to be just Yuki being Yuki, just a slightly different version of Yuki, one that was equally if not more Yuki than the original Yuki given the flip. If that makes sense. The fact that I did not vote Unknown and that I pushed Yuki, resulted in Yuki being confirmed town AND they didn't get NK, which is great for town, IMO.

[SecondLynch]

Sorry, going to call bullshit on this. You say that 1. I am too friendly and don't push anyone, and that makes me neutral, 2. I "excluded" SK from my analysis wall post, 3. That I was townreading you until I made an "opportunistic" flip, which are ALL points I've refuted, with evidence where applicable and logic otherwise. Anyone here is free to check up my post history for that.

Instead of responding, you oh-so-conveniently decide that "you don't feel like refuting the same stuff" when this is in fact was our first confrontation on all of the above subjects. You made your argument, I made a rebuttal, and now you "don't feel like refuting the same stuff." This is physically impossible, since you never refuted it to begin with. That's some solid dodging you're doing. Then, you have the audacity to restating one of your arguments all over again, while ignoring the other facts on which you've been proven wrong. THAT is truly rotten behavior - seeking to mislead others about the nature of the passage of events by simply ignoring things. If you really are town, please act like it.

I can't speak for Unknown, but there are my thoughts—
You aren't exactly too friendly, but you didn't actually push anyone. Which is to be expected, you just replaced in. The wall post you made did lack a lot in terms of stances. I think my partner said something to this effect. Are pre-flip associations something you do often on the TL forums?

I really really hate it when players just say to check your post history. Why don't you check it for us?

You don't seem to be reading Unknown as scum(?) Let's just find out. Do you think Unknown is town or scum right now?

[SecondLynch]

I wouldn't say I was entirely reluctant. I feel a person have more motivation to sway their accuser if the accuser's vote is not yet cast. Also, it helps me stay objective, because I can argue more empirically and not with the mindset of "this is my read, this is my vote, and I will defend it." In other words, trying to prevent myself from tunneling and giving people an opportunity to present a counter-case or otherwise convince me. However, Unknown was my strongest scum read, and Yuki was my strongest neutral/scum-read, which turned out to be just Yuki being Yuki, just a slightly different version of Yuki, one that was equally if not more Yuki than the original Yuki given the flip. If that makes sense. The fact that I did not vote Unknown and that I pushed Yuki, resulted in Yuki being confirmed town AND they didn't get NK, which is great for town, IMO.

I have no idea what I just read. First off, that's too many Yuki's in the same sentence.
Second, Yukitaka being confirmed mayor was done with or without your help, and that was after the fact. You had nothing to do with it.

Third, biggest point here is that you're saying you don't want to push people?
^Is this correct?

[JealousTL]

I can't speak for Unknown, but there are my thoughts—
You aren't exactly too friendly, but you didn't actually push anyone. Which is to be expected, you just replaced in. The wall post you made did lack a lot in terms of stances. I think my partner said something to this effect. Are pre-flip associations something you do often on the TL forums?

I really really hate it when players just say to check your post history. Why don't you check it for us?

You don't seem to be reading Unknown as scum(?) Let's just find out. Do you think Unknown is town or scum right now?

1. I pushed Yuki when I thought that they scumslipped on the SK/Witch+Vigi situation. When I realized I had forgotten that Vigi can't kill N1, I backed off, but when RLVG confirmed that it was possible, I continued to push. Also, my second wall post was effectively a push on both Yuki and Unknown.

2. It was not a pre-flip association but a post-flip association, as noted in the above post. Because of the Quick vs. SL vs. Unknown triangle, and Quick being scum, I drew what I thought were the most logically sound connections. If you mean that I am looking for associations that happened before a flip, and analyzing them after a flip, then yes, that is something I do.

3. I think that he is town but is playing like a bad town right now.

[SecondLynch]

I think my last will is/was convincing. You might have listened to me more knowing my position against Jealous/Stereo was a town one.

Hey Unknown, I probably sheeped my partner too hard yesterday. Can you redirect me to your will? Where can I find it?

[JealousTL]

I have no idea what I just read. First off, that's too many Yuki's in the same sentence.
Second, Yukitaka being confirmed mayor was done with or without your help, and that was after the fact. You had nothing to do with it.

Third, biggest point here is that you're saying you don't want to push people?
^Is this correct?

1. Ignore the sentence with the Yukis then, everything else should be relatively easy to understand.

2. If that was the case, then why would Yuki say "FUCK YOU JEALOUS -REVEAL?" It's because I was scumreading/pushing them.

3. I'm saying that there are other ways to push people than voting for them.

[JealousTL]

Hey Unknown, I probably sheeped my partner too hard yesterday. Can you redirect me to your will? Where can I find it?

https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showth...l=1#post640672

[Unknown1234]

Fuck.