S-FM 209: Surreptitious: The Game of Spies

[secondpassing]

Heavily cut things out in this post for readability. (Kovath/Calix/Never Unlucky's wall post wars)

No, I made the point that NU has been posting a lot and commenting a lot, for instance his many posts commenting line-by-line on other posts, and that is why his approach stands out for me, especially in regards to other games. And no, I'm not being hypocritical because I am legitimately busy and my relative lack of contribution is related to that, unlike NU who is posting in high volume but not driving points forward.

I've seen a number of people who are townreading him for being reasoned and active and "driving the game forward", I can see the first two but definitely not the last one. It's a simple strategy to establish himself as town in the group (esp with the stupid activity = town idea), it's something I've seen others like Cryptonic do time and time again (ex. line by line responses, I think?).

Kovath's case on Never Unlucky which I have no found answered. "Answered" yes. Refuted? No. You cannot refute unconscious behavior. I do not feel Never Unlucky is helping the team.

You're not pushing reads, scumteams, etc. like you did in IC for example. Definitely get the sense that something is different.

Your line-by-lines wasn't the point, it's what you're actually commenting with that strikes me as unusual. I do not get the impression that you are really trying to push a game-solving mindset with those big posts. I would have to do a big ISO to be more specific but I don't have the time.

Because I was the neutral, I was busy, and ok.

It's day 1, pushing for scumteams is useless. Just read KC's posts about the Duck/Calix/NU scum-team, it's based on nothing.

I’m unsure what gives you this impression.

I like that you’re trying to scum-hunt me, albeit in a hypocritical way. Some of your points are also caricatures of my posts, and they give me a strong feeling that you’re trying to paint me as scum.
I dislike that you town-read RLVG « because he is pushing Duck », it’s NAI. It’s as easy to do this for scum to deflect off of a pressured scum.

Sounds dodgy. I've cut out a lot of emotional posts here actually, but the emotional posts have no direction. If the emotions have no direction, where is he directing his scum hunting feelings? Highly recommend people re-read this post in its context.

Also sounds guilty.

I have to leave now, hopefully I should be back before EoD.

Is not here. Broke a hope. It means something, but I can't put a handle on it.

Quote Originally Posted by Calix View Post
Assuming that the second point is you paraphrasing Kovath, HOW was he using said points to 'paint you as scum'?

HO HO! Looking at my prodding from the scum angle rather than the town angle like you told me to do in the BG, saying that my prodding is very simplistic when it is NOT the case, claiming that my "don't take a vacation, give reads instead" comment on RLVG was opportunistic when it was just an original way of asking for his reads without directly pinging him.

Sounds like he's guilty.

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

I think you tunneled way too hard, brother. You're bringing up something from a long time ago, against a player who has clearly not been participating that actively. It's more likely to be a mistake or a change of heart rather than AI on Yuki or Klingon, in my opinion. In fact, just a few minutes ago they were all willing to sheep Calix or Titus on Ginger.

Please calm down.

Wow sheeping, such town motivation, much wow. I don't give a fuck when I brought something up. Bad logic is bad logic. I am not tunneling, I am asking for a response or what changed in her reads to allow yuki to be scum.

[Calix]

Sheeping is not alignment-indicative. What trains they sheep can be.

Much as I like the idea of Titus/ Duck/ Klingoncelt having a tits-measuring contest, can we save it until...we don't have half an hour to lynch someone?

Worst fucking timing ever.

[Klingoncelt]

L-2

28 minutes.

14 users watching.

Tick-tock.

[Gingerape]

Hopefully this isn't disallowed but here is a link with common Mafia abbreviations/acronyms:

Thanks ^^
-throws my hands up and spins- LAMIST

o.o That train on Yuki went really fast
I still think she's town. And I would super hate to see a power town role die. I'm scared...I don't get a vote

[secondpassing]

@Calix What was it that you tone read in Never Unlucky?

To everyone else:
Never Unlucky > Kovath > RLVG > Gingerape > Yukitaka Oni is the preference of my lynch target today.

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

Only one way to save yuki at this point

-vote Kovath

Wont pass, w/e

[JealousTL]

Wow sheeping, such town motivation, much wow. I don't give a fuck when I brought something up. Bad logic is bad logic. I am not tunneling, I am asking for a response or what changed in her reads to allow yuki to be scum.

Actually, you didn't ask anything. You kind of just typed some caps to them, held onto their reads that were less than a full day into the game, and then told them to "use their brain." Then in the next post you yell some more.

I still don't get where this heartfelt defense of Yuki came from. You've been defending her from before there was even a motion to lynch them. Since it seems they will be gone soon, care to explain why while there is still time to change that?

[RLVG]

I don't think we'll lynch anyone other than Yuki in less than 30min.

[Calix]

@Calix What was it that you tone read in Never Unlucky?

To everyone else:
Never Unlucky > Kovath > RLVG > Gingerape > Yukitaka Oni is the preference of my lynch target today.

Just the way he's posting differs from the scum game he has on record.

However your post isn't terrible either, so now I'm conflicted.

[Titus]

Thanks ^^
-throws my hands up and spins- LAMIST

o.o That train on Yuki went really fast
I still think she's town. And I would super hate to see a power town role die. I'm scared...I don't get a vote

This makes me wish ginger had the votes

[JealousTL]

@Calix What was it that you tone read in Never Unlucky?

To everyone else:
Never Unlucky > Kovath > RLVG > Gingerape > Yukitaka Oni is the preference of my lynch target today.

That's interesting. Thanks for the abbreviated analysis, on NU vs. Kovath vs. RLVG, by the way. So, do you think that it was MvTvT or MvMvT? NU is the most likely to be scum of the 3?

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

Actually, you didn't ask anything. You kind of just typed some caps to them, held onto their reads that were less than a full day into the game, and then told them to "use their brain." Then in the next post you yell some more.

I still don't get where this heartfelt defense of Yuki came from. You've been defending her from before there was even a motion to lynch them. Since it seems they will be gone soon, care to explain why while there is still time to change that?

I asked the same thing many pages ago.

ANybody willing to join the Kovath train????

Sigh. This is why I fake claim sheriff people, nobody knows how to play the game. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[Calix]

Also can people stop spamming me with the fucking mentions feature? I have a dozen of them just from today.

[Titus]

I don't think we'll lynch anyone other than Yuki in less than 30min.

I am willing. I am Baaahhh sheep

[secondpassing]

Only one way to save yuki at this point

-vote Kovath

Wont pass, w/e

Even though I think you're scum, I can get behind this to save Yuki

-vote Kovath

Desperate times calls for desperate measures.

[Titus]

I asked the same thing many pages ago.

ANybody willing to join the Kovath train????

Sigh. This is why I fake claim sheriff people, nobody knows how to play the game. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Maybe it's you that doesn't.

Yuki and Ginger are both annoying and whiny fuckers with zero scumhunting.

[JealousTL]

I asked the same thing many pages ago.

ANybody willing to join the Kovath train????

Sigh. This is why I fake claim sheriff people, nobody knows how to play the game. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

If you're going to quote my post, can you at least answer the question? Save the insults, please. Question was:

"I still don't get where this heartfelt defense of Yuki came from. You've been defending her from before there was even a motion to lynch them. Since it seems they will be gone soon, care to explain why while there is still time to change that?"

[JealousTL]

Even though I think you're scum, I can get behind this to save Yuki

-vote Kovath

Desperate times calls for desperate measures.

Why do you think we need to save Yuki? You're saying that you would rather follow someone who you think is scum OFF a train and ONTO another one, in order to save Yuki?

[JealousTL]

Why do you think we need to save Yuki? You're saying that you would rather follow someone who you think is scum OFF a train and ONTO another one, in order to save Yuki?

Sorry, ignore the OFF a train part and just keep the ONTO a train with someone you think is scum. That makes no sense.

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

Maybe it's you that doesn't.

Yuki and Ginger are both annoying and whiny fuckers with zero scumhunting.

And if this was a standard setup I would 100% agree with you and policy lynch the fuck out of yuki. Look at Instant Mafia 2.0 where I tried the exact same thing. However we have little (unknown really) room for error, and I don't want to fucking put the game on the line of a policy lynch.

If you are strongly reading yuki as scum can you point me the posts where he has done something SCUMMY and not useless.

[RLVG]

Sigh. This is why I fake claim sheriff people, nobody knows how to play the game. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Gamethrow in 3... 2...



Jokes beside, I'm going to keep my vote on Yuki and expect others to follow. I prefer a Yuki lynch over the 3 others.

[secondpassing]

That's interesting. Thanks for the abbreviated analysis, on NU vs. Kovath vs. RLVG, by the way. So, do you think that it was MvTvT or MvMvT? NU is the most likely to be scum of the 3?

Yup. Basically. I can only focus on so much as both the leading trains are now town reads of mine.

And your thoughts on the same players?

[Klingoncelt]

20 minutes.

Let's get a move on, people.

[Calix]

And if this was a standard setup I would 100% agree with you and policy lynch the fuck out of yuki. Look at Instant Mafia 2.0 where I tried the exact same thing. However we have little (unknown really) room for error, and I don't want to fucking put the game on the line of a policy lynch.

If you are strongly reading yuki as scum can you point me the posts where he has done something SCUMMY and not useless.

This doesn't make sense. Instant Mafia had NO room for mislynches at all, yet you still expressed a desire to policy lynch and extensively detailed why it wasn't gamethrowing.

This change in heart over...nothing, really does not give me fuzzy feelings.

[Never Unlucky]

[QUOTE=secondpassing;634293]
I am claiming that I can't tell what motivates NU to post as he does. I feel as if there is an agenda-- what he is trying to do- I cannot tell. It's making it very hard to read him. Since I cannot figure this out, I am very slightly leaning scum on him.[/vote]

Define "as he does".

It would be extremely helpful for him to put some emotions into his posts, but he might just be tired playing a 15-player + a marathon.

I do put in emotion in my posts; I'm not the overconfident asshole I usually am -- that's simply because I haven't found a slip to tunnel someone from. I'm assuming that's what you meant.
[QUOTE]

well I mean. I don't have much to go off of but out of my group I think it's kovack. ^^
I mean all of group 1 is pretty hidey right now. I don't know where they are. It's spooky.
Like I said, It's hard for me to read people right now at least for me. I'd pick kovack just based off content posted, he hasn't contributed a ton of ideas. But most of the ideas posted today were pretty easy and generic anyway~
Day is ending soon. I'm scared for Yuki...
Her last post made me sad

The town tone here cannot be unseen. Also being willing to be lynched instead of her good friend (How noble and cute ^^) is TOWN AF. Scum would feel the need to survive and push for someone else which looks more like Kovath's play.

You seemed to have an easier time with picking out town-reads though. What makes finding scum harder exactly...?

I think everyone is having this issue this game; there really isn't anyone standing out (Other than Duck), so Ginger not having strong S-R doesn't worry me yet. I'd be more worried if this behavior happened in later days.

[Titus]

And if this was a standard setup I would 100% agree with you and policy lynch the fuck out of yuki. Look at Instant Mafia 2.0 where I tried the exact same thing. However we have little (unknown really) room for error, and I don't want to fucking put the game on the line of a policy lynch.

If you are strongly reading yuki as scum can you point me the posts where he has done something SCUMMY and not useless.

If your ass is on the line and doing nothing, then it's their fault. Town would scumhunt. If we do lose, no sweat here. The argument you made can be any slot.

[Calix]

Klingoncelt, where do you stand with the other G3 players?

[secondpassing]

Why do you think we need to save Yuki? You're saying that you would rather follow someone who you think is scum OFF a train and ONTO another one, in order to save Yuki?

I'm also banking on the fact that PLZLEAVEDUCKK actually claimed what he got. In any cases, he is forced to either play to town's interest or do as much damage as he can. While I am trying to be cautious, it does not negate the fact that I heavily town read Yukitaka by my own violition.

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

If you're going to quote my post, can you at least answer the question? Save the insults, please. Question was:

"I still don't get where this heartfelt defense of Yuki came from. You've been defending her from before there was even a motion to lynch them. Since it seems they will be gone soon, care to explain why while there is still time to change that?"

Honestly, I did not even see your question, sorry.

I am defending yuki because I know they have done this same style of play as town, and they will increase their level of play. In our last game we were both town and i had the same exact frustrations as everyone else in this game. I can tell by how the train is going against him this game that he is town.

Ex 1) clarence charmanders revenge
ex 2) unknown and shifty Instant mafia 2.0

It is not that yuki is town, it is how the train against him happens. I have tried to stop similar day 1 trains (I scumread clarence, and shifty all game) against people I scum read because the way the train formed against them confirmed them as town in my eyes.

[Titus]

20 minutes.

Let's get a move on, people.

Reads grandma?

[JealousTL]

Yup. Basically. I can only focus on so much as both the leading trains are now town reads of mine.

And your thoughts on the same players?

Honestly? It felt a lot like TvTvT to me. There is a possibility that there was 1 scum in there. I will have to dig on my own to re-assess.

I still can't believe you'd follow DUCK.

[Klingoncelt]

Klingoncelt, where do you stand with the other G3 players?

Ginger, Never Unlucky, RLVG, Kovath, Scum to Town.

[Calix]

Ginger, Never Unlucky, RLVG, Kovath, Scum to Town.

Why is Kovath your strongest town-read? It's at odds with my own hence why I ask.

[RLVG]

I still can't believe you'd follow DUCK.

Can we have a list of who does and who doesn't?

[Klingoncelt]

Why is Kovath your strongest town-read? It's at odds with my own hence why I ask.

Because my Scumreads dislike him.

[Klingoncelt]

13 minutes.

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

Can someone post a VCA on when I put Ginger to L-3?

Why did scum not put this into hammer range, and why did it absolve so easily? I was gone for the majority of this part so I am just curious and want to see where the voters ended up ( I assume unvoted or yuki).

[Never Unlucky]

#456
As for Yukitaka, I disagree. I find both my gut telling me he is town, and I see town intent behind his post.
1.Actively analyzes/scumhunts
2. Attitude
3. Early Complaining about Lurking (more of my personal view as to why this is a town-read in this context that'd I'd rather not explain)
4. Starts to fix formatting for the benefit of town- volunteers some extra information in parentheses after being called out on being unintelligible or something

Where is the town intent in refusing to give information and not wanting to interact with JTL?
1) Actively really is an overstatement here. Saying she scum-hunts and analyzes is generous too.
2) and 3) Agreed
4) How?

@JealousTL We need your opinions. There is no more waiting and there is no more time.

@RLVG What is the intent of #594? I find little of value in it. Describe to me please how it benefits town for you to post that.

@Shapelog Cast a vote or at cast an opinion
@MattZed Cast a vote or cast an opinion
@Eggy This mention may be use for later reference.

I like that you're pinging people so actively. Reminds me of Minotarr (town) in the BG.

She led 3 mislynches before leading a Scum lynch, and by then she suspected everyone but herself.

As Town, she was Scum's Most Valuable Player.

But the lynch today is coming from Group 3. Focus.

WTF are your motives for discrediting her this early for a previous game?

Scummy AF.

I hope you're right about this.

-vote Gingerape

There is no debatable town motive behind this. You're sheeping someone who admitted wasn't up-to-date. EXPLAIN.

[secondpassing]

Honestly? It felt a lot like TvTvT to me. There is a possibility that there was 1 scum in there. I will have to dig on my own to re-assess.

I still can't believe you'd follow DUCK.

I'm not following DUCK, I am defending Yukitaka whilst pointing out that it is odd that DUCK is voting for Kovath. There could be multiple reasons DUCK could be following Kovath as neut/scum.
I'm saying my town read on Yukitaka-san > suspicion on DUCK

[Calix]

Because my Scumreads dislike him.

Ah yes, I haven't missed MS players and their love of pre-flip association reads.

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

Because my Scumreads dislike him.

You said im a traitor, which means I dont know would be on my team... What if you are wrong on calix, you dont have an independent read on kovath?

[Klingoncelt]

There is no debatable town motive behind this. You're sheeping someone who admitted wasn't up-to-date. EXPLAIN.

Titus thought she saw Ginger scumslip. I already said that . Pay attention

[Quick]

10 min.

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

Did anybody calculate what sleeping does to our odds. DO we lose a miss lynch?

[RLVG]

10 min.

Calix, vote Yuki and hope someone hammers.

[secondpassing]

Calix, vote Yuki and hope someone hammers.

Wait. How come you're not voting?

Reads please.

[RLVG]

Did anybody calculate what sleeping does to our odds. DO we lose a miss lynch?

If sleeping does anything to the odds of mafia, then fuck that noise.

[SuperJack]

Wait. How come you're not voting?

Reads please.

he cant he is in yukis group

[RLVG]

Wait. How come you're not voting?

Reads please.

I am banned from voting.