Endgame Situations

[Guardian]

Confirmed Jailer
DOC claimer(DOC)
Sheriff claimer((sheriff(cant see GF))
DOC claimer(GF)
(SC2 mafia, believe it or not,the game was pretty rational)

Note:jailer has 2 executions left,sheriff cant see GF
INFO available to players:sheriff outed a mafia
Role list(not including dead ppl):GF,rand town,DOC,Jailer

what are the best actions by jailer,DOC, and GF?
Oh, and try thinking as a player with no knowledge(regarding DOC and GF)

[Nick]

Jailer jail either Doc. And put last will on who he has jailed.

If jailed correctly. Keep jailing to force a tiebreaker. "Docs" should vote each other and jailor and sheriff abstain.

If jailed wrongly. Jailer dies. Read last will. Kill the fake (the one who is not jailed).

If jailed wrongly. Sheriff dies. Jailor lead the lynch.

If jailed wrongly. Real doc dies. Lynch the fake.

[Guardian]

Jailer jail either Doc. And put last will on who he has jailed.

If jailed correctly. Keep jailing to force a tiebreaker. "Docs" should vote each other and jailor and sheriff abstain.

If jailed wrongly. Jailer dies. Read last will. Kill the fake (the one who is not jailed).

If jailed wrongly. Sheriff dies. Jailor lead the lynch.

If jailed wrongly. Real doc dies. Lynch the fake.

from the perspective of the players, the "sheriff" might have outed his own mafia to save his own skin.
(read bussing on a mafia wiki)
remember, the rand town could be a DOC or a sheriff.
the jailer is a confirmed inno because he was the only one to claim jailer.

[Nick]

I assume the real doctor will be healing the jailor?

A doctor dies when another doctor jailed - "sheriff" is guilty

Jailor healed with a doctor jailed - "sheriff" is guilty, another is confirmed doctor.

EDIT: Assuming they didn't lie when they claim their roles.

[Guardian]

just so you know: docs cant heal when they're role-blocked.
jailing is an RB

[Nick]

If random town is doc, it means there are 2 docs.
If random town is sheriff, use my first idea.

[Admiral]

COA 1.

The Sheriff will do nothing. It doesn't matter either way. Him and the Jailor will vote in unison.

The Jailor will jail a Doctor but wont execute. He will leave a will of who he jails.
---Exception: The "Doctor" spectacularly fails the role card test. He will then be executed.
-If a Doctor is killed, the "Sheriff" is the killer.
-If the Jailor is attacked and healed, the "Sheriff" is the killer.
-If the Sheriff is killed, the other "Doctor" is the killer.
-If nothing happens repeat the process.

The GF will kill nobody. It's his only chance. He must hope the other doctor was jailed.
-Exception: None. The Sheriff isn't getting jailed- The GF could only possibly kill one person. The Sheriff is known inno. If he dies the Jailor know who was lying. If the GF kills the jailor, the jailor probably willed it, so the Sheriff will know who is lying. The other Doctor will surely be in jail so the kill will fail and even if it would work he just killed his scapegoat.

The Doctor has two courses of action.
-If the Doctor is put in jail he will comply 100%. He does not need to be executed.
-If the Doctor is NOT put in jail, he will commit suicide at night. The Jailor will not reasonably jail the Sheriff.

*An intelligent GF would not kill.
*An intelligent Jailor would not execute.
*An intelligent doctor would heal the jailor and commit suicide if not in jail.

COA 2.

Jailor jails Sheriff
Real Doctor heals Jailor then suicides

COA 3. (Bonus)

***There is no way to guarantee a win unless you asked for a quick regurgitation of the Doctors and Sheriffs Rolecards.
You would have the Docs PM their role cards line by line/word for word during day. The Jailor would jail the Sheriff. At night, the Jailor would figure out who is lying by looking them up. In the meantime the Doctor would heal the Jailor. The GF is likely boned so will murder-suicide the Doc and end the game.

Even then this method is not only dishonest but also not foolproof. It would probably be the most (very) reliable in most cases. As far as honest strats go. COA 2 is probably the *Best.* COA 1 and 2 are probably equally valid as at this point it's sort of random. I think the Doctor heal-suicide would be an unexpected move that would win this situation for town more often than not.

[Nick]

@Admiral
I don't recommend suicide for the doctor who is not jailed because we still do not know if the jailed "doctor" or "sheriff" is the GF.

IF Doctor(A) not jailed AND Doctor(A) commit suicide
IF Sheriff = GF AND GF did not kill
Jailor do not know who is GF, and might wrongly assume that Doctor(B) is GF.
IF Doctor(B) = GF AND GF cannot killed because was jailed
Hope that jailor jail and kill Doctor(B).

Suiciding will make a sure win into a 50-50 gamble.

By the way, is tiebreaker now a secret ballot? If that is the case, GF can still ninja lynch someone...

I'm bad at explaining. Admiral should continue his good work.

[Guardian]

ok. it seems you guys have a problem when i gave you too much info.
@admiral- sucide DOC is the worst thing to do....
you will make it either a) 50-50
b)75 maf-25 town
c) mafia win
you assumed both players are Doctors.
if DOC-suicide-heal....
(for mafia win) Sheriff is jailed. Doc A heals jailer and suicides=mafia hit DOC and win
(for 75-25) GF is jailed. DOC A heals jailer and suicides. Jailer believes "sheriff" to be mafia or has to choose between "sheriff" or "DOC"





i can tell you what was the result tho.

[CmG]

jail no one and say you jailed doc A. if He says wtf i didn't get jailed vote the other doc. Gf would not argue with the Jailor that he not got jailed.

GF would not kill at this situation or he would hit the sherriff.

[BorkBot]

jail no one and say you jailed doc A. if He says wtf i didn't get jailed vote the other doc. Gf would not argue with the Jailor that he not got jailed.

You're wrong about that, I think. They'd both argue.

[CmG]

Depends on the settings too. Longer day shorter day. All has impact,

[BorkBot]

Well, if you knew the sheriff was confirmed then I'd roll with Admiral's solution number two.

Jail the sheriff to protect him, tell the doctor to heal the jailor and commit suicide. That way the false doctor is revealed and both the jailor and the sheriff will live.


Another option is to repeat this process without the suicide and make arrangements for the 3 days no deaths anonymous baillot vote: jailor will vote on doctor A, sheriff will vote on doctor B and the doctors will vote on each other. It will be a tie and the town will win.


Without a confirmed sheriff (no invest/detective/lookout info on him), it's more difficult. Role-card reading is BS thouhh, and should not even be considered. First thing I'd do is ask the doctors for their last will to see if their heal claims check out with the deaths etc. If they take long to come up with a heals list, something fishy is going on and I'd jail them.

[Admiral]

Well, if you knew the sheriff was confirmed then I'd roll with Admiral's solution number two.

Jail the sheriff to protect him, tell the doctor to heal the jailor and commit suicide. That way the false doctor is revealed and both the jailor and the sheriff will live.


Another option is to repeat this process without the suicide and make arrangements for the 3 days no deaths anonymous baillot vote: jailor will vote on doctor A, sheriff will vote on doctor B and the doctors will vote on each other. It will be a tie and the town will win.


Without a confirmed sheriff (no invest/detective/lookout info on him), it's more difficult. Role-card reading is BS thouhh, and should not even be considered. First thing I'd do is ask the doctors for their last will to see if their heal claims check out with the deaths etc. If they take long to come up with a heals list, something fishy is going on and I'd jail them.

I didn't say rely on role cards it but it's happened once or twice where someone just plain couldn't fake it.

I did have a solution where we waited 3 days, but I figured if the GF was a fake Doc would just kill himself like. It didn't make sense to be at 6 in the morning. At least one of the doctors is telling the truth. You'd still jail Sheriff every night so the only possible kill is the other GF.

The only problem with this one is the same problem with my COA of the doctor suiciding- in that we don't know 100% the Sheriff isn't lying. He could be suspected to stack Doc A with votes, then shoot the real Doc at night. I believe both of our scenarios that seem thoroughly assembled prove there isn't a sure-fire COA.

@ Guardian

We both provided ways that in most cases I think would yield the most success.

[BorkBot]

Admiral:

My beef with reading the role cards isn't that it's not fool proof, but that it's a lame mechanicy strategy and I don't feel that's how the game is supposed to be played. If someone asks me to read from my role card, I will refuse to do it regardless of my role.

[Guardian]

OK.
i see some good strats....
but for my next endgame sit im not going to give you all info...
want the ending?

[Admiral]

OK.
i see some good strats....
but for my next endgame sit im not going to give you all info...
want the ending?

Let's hear it?

[Guardian]

i was the DOCtor.
day 1 we put the sheriff on the stand, then we all voted innocent.
night 1 i healed the sheriff.
day 2:no deaths,no lynch(best for town)
night 2 : jailed by jailer.(he was susp of me for bandwagoning the sheriff.)was hit, but was immune cus of jail.
day 3:no death,no lynch(best move by town,again.)
night 3: i healed jailer.
day 4:secret ballot!,jailer reveals he jailed the other "DOC" ,so we all vote him to death.
final vote count:jailer 1,"DOC"
and the game said....................

And his role was ..............the Godfather!

RESULT

The TOWN has won!

[Guardian]

Endgame sit 2!
ROLE list:
Mason/investigator(sees exact role,sees through GF)
Mason/Doctor(1 gun)
Busdriver/mason
Citizen(*13)
Doctor
Sheriff
Recruitable Doctor(recruitable by the blue masons only)
Escort
Doctective(sees who the target visits as well)(1 auto vest)(can heal self once)
Mason



Serial Killer(kills RB-ers)
Arsonist

Godfather(1 gun)(cant kill by himself)(immune to detection+death)
Consiglere
Consort

Mafioso
Disguiser
Consiglere

Gunsmith(cult)
Doctor(cult)(has 1 gun)
citizen(cult)
well?
this is a more complex varient.
the mason teams are seperate.
the doc/invest mason team cannot recruit.
the cult leader is already dead.
the arsonist ignores immunities, but not heals.
Consig does not become GF.
Mismason=true
mismason counts as a hit i.e,healable.

[Admiral]

I think it would be a better idea if you made these things solve for X where X = [Role] win or a win in Y days.

[Guardian]

I think it would be a better idea if you made these things solve for X where X = [Role] win or a win in Y days.

Ok then.....

Consiglere(can investigate or attack)(1 gunsmith gun)
Consort(can role block or attack)(1 gunsmith gun)

Doctor(can heal self once)
Doctor(can heal self once)
Doctor(1 auto vest)
Doctor(1 auto vest)
Nurse
Survivor(1 vest, 1 auto vest)

best moves?

[Nick]

Apologies for being ignorant on the newly suggested roles.

What is a Nurse???

[Guardian]

a nurse is a town power role that changes into a DOC if another DOC dies.
P.S this role was found on the epic mafia forum.
this is NOT a newly suggested role.

[Guardian]

if you guys need to know some info:
the mafia can theoretically kill 3 town in one night.
in this endgame sit, it is day start/no lynch

[CmG]

wtf Guardian Y R U EVERYWHERE ?

[Guardian]

whee.
try contributing to my endgame sit ^_^

[Luna]

Guardian is KICKASS and deserves to be in every thread!

I'm still trying to figure out an answer to his questions in my Bioshock theme

[Guardian]

Ok, if you guys dont want to discuss about my prev situation, i always have new ones(maybe)


Mafioso
Consiglere
Consort(Lover)
Escort(Lover)

Sheriff
Investigator(sees exact role)
Doctor
Busdriver
Vigilante(1 shot)

Survivor(1 vest, 1 auto vest)

the lovers can win with their lovers.
they suicide if their partner dies.

[Luna]

In that scenario I will be taking the role of the Mafia.

I kill one person per night until everyone is dead.

[Guardian]

for this scenario, i want to see the strategies for the lovers.
the can move the game in either direction.
Ideally they will eliminate everyone else(except surv)

[CmG]

if i give you ideas about strategy right here in this thread you will use it to analyse me on the M-FM. On the other hand i could feed you wrong information here right now.. Awesome WIFOM IS WONDERFULL!

[BorkBot]

In the first case, much more information was set in stone and a clear strategy could be formed. In the second case, there are way too many ifs, thens and elses. There is no clear strategy you can follow because there's too much outside influence. You'll have to be able to adapt to the situation.

This one is much more clear cut and is easy to win 100%.

The consort lover tells his mafia buddies who his lover is so he/she doesn't get shot.
The next day, the consort claims sheriff, ousts one of his mafia buddies and asks if an escort will block his other mafia buddy because he's "acting scummy".

Next day oust your other mafia buddy and the game is over.

This is assuming that the consort lover can win alongside the whole town (the side of his lover). In the normal epic mafia version, one single lover starts out as a neutral and has to pick a player to "fall in love with". And they will then be able to win along with whatever their lover target's winning conditions are.

[Guardian]

In the first case, much more information was set in stone and a clear strategy could be formed. In the second case, there are way too many ifs, thens and elses. There is no clear strategy you can follow because there's too much outside influence. You'll have to be able to adapt to the situation.

This one is much more clear cut and is easy to win 100%.

The consort lover tells his mafia buddies who his lover is so he/she doesn't get shot.
The next day, the consort claims sheriff, ousts one of his mafia buddies and asks if an escort will block his other mafia buddy because he's "acting scummy".

Next day oust your other mafia buddy and the game is over.

This is assuming that the consort lover can win alongside the whole town (the side of his lover). In the normal epic mafia version, one single lover starts out as a neutral and has to pick a player to "fall in love with". And they will then be able to win along with whatever their lover target's winning conditions are.

uhhhh
no.
i wanted to see the lovers eliminate everyone else.
the consort lover will lose with your tactic.

[BorkBot]

Then there's no solid strategy to follow. You'll need to adapt and will probably still lose, because it's very hard to keep both players alive in opposing factions.

[Guardian]

Im going to make a simpler one now....
ok. I will try to give the objective .
SOLVE for TOWN victory.
Arsonist(immune to NK)
Serial Killer(immune to NK)
Mason
Mason

just try to solve for when town actually wins.

EDIT:its day start and no-one has been doused.

[Guardian]

In that scenario I will be taking the role of the Mafia.

I kill one person per night until everyone is dead.

i liked this one.
Its very viable, as we can SO block the doctor AND the Busdriver.

[CmG]

Im going to make a simpler one now....
ok. I will try to give the objective .
SOLVE for TOWN victory.
Arsonist(immune to NK)
Serial Killer(immune to NK)
Mason
Mason

just try to solve for when town actually wins.

EDIT:its day start and no-one has been doused.

masons fool arso in voting sk
arso douses the night.
masons vote arso. ?:-P

[Nick]

Problem is implementation...

Can arsonist and SK win together? If they can, masons are !@#$ed.

[TheWaaagh]

Problem is implementation...

Can arsonist and SK win together? If they can, masons are !@#$ed.

Even if they can't, masons are fucked. Both masons know the other two guys are bad, so they'll both pick one to vote. If they pick Arson, SK will jump on and guilty the guy, then kill one of the masons at night and win.

If they pick SK the first day, Arsonist won't guilty because he won't have enough time to douse one of the two masons. So he won't vote. Then at night the SK will kill one of the masons (since he can't kill an Arsonist at night). He'll know who the Arsonist is because it'll be the one that didn't vote for him in the day. Then the Mason will have to choose who wins between the Arsonist and the SK by swinging the vote in the opposing one's direction.

The only way for the masons to win is if the Arsonist decides to be a jackass and go with the votes on SK despite not having anyone doused yet. And then he'd get lynched the next day.

[CmG]

not true if guardian is the sk and nobody gets lynched day 1 and he hits the arso. And in daychat nobody believes him he will go suicide to proof his role and if the Arso doused the sk the masons can lynch him the next day!

[TheWaaagh]

not true if guardian is the sk and nobody gets lynched day 1 and he hits the arso. And in daychat nobody believes him he will go suicide to proof his role and if the Arso doused the sk the masons can lynch him the next day!

Lmao this is true. Guardian sure does love him some suicide.

"What's the best strategy to win in mafia?"

"Kill yourself. Every. Damn. Time. "

[Deathfire123]

Here's how I get a town win

Have one of the masons pretend to be the SK, and say the SK is one of the masons.

Have the other mason say, "I'm not going to vote my fellow mason"

If the arsonist ever votes for the sk at any point in time, the masons guilty him up and then the arsonist the next day. Piece of cake

Edit: WAAAGH RESPOND ON SKYPE!

[Guardian]

i was the mason.
we were following this strategy.
then it blew up when he AFKed

also , guys why dont you post your own situations?

[Deathfire123]

i was the mason.
we were following this strategy.
then it blew up when he AFKed

also , guys why dont you post your own situations?

Blackmailer
Escort
Mason
Citizen
Executioner (Target: Escort)

Win it for the Executioner and Mafia

[CmG]

more info please

[Deathfire123]

No one knows who the blackmailer is. The Escort has blocked the Cit and Exe, yet kills happened both nights. The mason has been cleared by his dead mason buddy. No one knows who the escort is.

[nanosystem]

1. Is the Blackmailer able to kill?
2. Is the Mason able to convert?

[Luna]

i was the mason.
we were following this strategy.
then it blew up when he AFKed

also , guys why dont you post your own situations?

Mostly because this is not like a chess puzzle, context is everything. Even when it comes down to the bare bones of the logic puzzle, it takes a lot of time and effort to create a good puzzle which doesn't have to rely on the intelligence of others making the right plays.

[Guardian]

No one knows who the blackmailer is. The Escort has blocked the Cit and Exe, yet kills happened both nights. The mason has been cleared by his dead mason buddy. No one knows who the escort is.

Are you insane?
frankly, the town already has this game wrapped up.
the ONLY way for the mafia to win is for the town to be screwed up.
Horribly.

Exe just claims Escort, gets his escort lynched, mafia kills a townie, then they joint lynch the last townie.
ONLY way for the town to lose.
EDIT: Question: is this the exact possible role list?