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Thread: M-FM Overwatch

  1. ISO #4351

    Re: M-FM Overwatch

    Quote Originally Posted by M-FM Tracer View Post
    Fucking hell, stop being idiots.

    Widowmaker/ Tracer lynch is 100 times more informative.

    If this is the stupidity I have to deal with, just kill me now.
    Ok, you should realize a possible olive branch when you see one. When you reach dead chat and see how terrible you've been (unless you're scum) don't blame me.

    I am much more confident in Rein scum but I had ZERO choice in these wagons.

  2. ISO #4352

  3. ISO #4353

  4. ISO #4354

  5. ISO #4355

    Re: M-FM Overwatch

    Quote Originally Posted by M-FM Symmetra View Post
    Ok, you should realize a possible olive branch when you see one. When you reach dead chat and see how terrible you've been (unless you're scum) don't blame me.

    I am much more confident in Rein scum but I had ZERO choice in these wagons.
    Fuck you.

    I'm not taking your "olive branch" when I have a scum-read at L-2 who is TEN TIMES more informative than Reinhardt.

  6. ISO #4356

  7. ISO #4357

  8. ISO #4358

    Re: M-FM Overwatch

    Quote Originally Posted by M-FM Tracer View Post
    Fuck you.

    I'm not taking your "olive branch" when I have a scum-read at L-2 who is TEN TIMES more informative than Reinhardt.
    Yeah, well fuck information. We don't lynch information lynches. We lynch scum.

    The best case put forth is she typed funny and scum white knighted.

    Mercy wagon...started because she voted Z.

    If Widow is lynched and flips town, you're giving your vote to me, or my will.

  9. ISO #4359

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  13. ISO #4363

    Re: M-FM Overwatch

    Night 3:

    The citizens of the Overwatch gathered together and Lynched M-FM Widowmaker

    M-FM Widowmaker was Lynched they were Omnic!
    Spoiler : Role :


    Defense Role:

    Mason Leader
    Action: Target one person at night, converting Citizens to Masons
    You may speak to the other Masons at any point. (If you are in same game mode)
    You have 1 charge of action. You can only speak to your mason if you are in the same game mode as this role card. I
    If your target is not convertible you will be informed.
    Offense Role:
    Citizen
    You have no night abilities
    Support Role:
    Spy
    Action: Target a player to learn if they performed an action that night.
    You can plant false feedback on your target instead if you please.
    You will be informed if it was a Killing/Protective/Investigative action.

    They left no last will
    Player List Alignments Dead Zone
    M-FM Bastion
    M-FM Genji
    M-FM Hanzo
    M-FM Junkrat
    M-FM Lucio
    M-FM McCree
    M-FM Mei
    M-FM Mercy
    M-FM Pharah
    M-FM Reaper
    M-FM Reinhardt
    M-FM Roadhog
    M-FM Soldier 76
    M-FM Symmetra
    M-FM Torbjorn
    M-FM Tracer
    M-FM Widowmaker
    M-FM Winston
    M-FM Zarya
    M-FM Zenyatta
    Hidden Town Citizen/Citizen/BusDriver
    Hidden Town Citizen/Blacksmith/Spy
    Hidden Town Citizen/Citizen/Citizen
    Hidden Town Citizen/Coroner/Sheriff
    Hidden Town
    Hidden Town
    Hidden Town
    Hidden Town
    Hidden Town
    Hidden Town
    Hidden Town
    Hidden Town
    Hidden Town
    Hidden Town
    Hidden Town
    Hidden Town
    /Omnic
    Omnic
    Omnic
    Omnic
    Omnic Mason Leader/Citizen/Spy
    M-FM Mercy, Lynched Day 1, Town Cit/Cit/BD
    M-FM Genji, Died Night 1, Town Cit/BS/Spy
    M-FM Reaper, Lynched Day 2, Town Cit/Cit/Cit
    M-FM Pharah, Died Night 2, Town Cit/Cor/Sher
    M-FM Widowmaker, Lynched Day 3, Omnic ML/Cit/Spy



    The night has begun. Reminder that everyone alive can vote for a different game mode. If you have a night action please submit it to me an hour before deadline.


    Night Ends:
    • 00

    • 00

    • 00

    • 00

    DAYS HOURS MINUTES SECONDS

    Last edited by Firebringer; June 28th, 2016 at 09:10 AM.
    Don't pet growlithe, he will bite you.

  14. ISO #4364

    Re: M-FM Overwatch

    Day 4:

    Active Game Mode: Assault
    Reminder that only your Offense role card will be active today and tonight.
    You will vote for a new game mode during night or can vote for same mode.


    Someone died last night. M-FM Lucio didn't make it through the night.
    They were Town!

    Spoiler : Role :
    Defense Role:
    Sheriff
    Action: Check one player at night, learning their alignment.
    Offense Role:
    Citizen
    You have no night abilities
    Support Role:
    Citizen
    You have no night abilities


    They left a last will:
    Spoiler : Last will :
    Sup, if you’re reading this I’m dead. Woohoo! Just to say, but I voted for Offense Mode every single time, lol… I wanted to play the game as a cit tbh.

    Anyway, my thoughts on the game:

    I think it would be absolutely suicidal for scum to all be on the Tracer train. The scum team would be giving themselves up in order to get off mislynch and save one of their teammates (but for only one day). The extreme difficulty of the WM lynch, however, along with how close Tracer came to being lynched, suggests to me that at least two scum were on the Tracer train. So, since I’m kinda lazy and because I think it’s best to start there, I’m going to look at the Tracer train members.

    M-FM Roadhog: After going through a careful reread of Roadhog’s post, I found a lack of slot-specific reads and instead a focus on logical argumentation (ex. #3016) that I consider a strong preliminary indicator of scum – to seem useful while avoiding places where the scum info-gap might manifest itself (think about what I highlight later on and whether this point applies too – hint, it does). The closest I found to a pure read was #2810 on Tracer.

    Even his Reaper vote in #3100 was based on Reaper’s asking for an alignment check on Tracer, not off an evaluation of Reaper as a slot; yet he says this to justify his vote:

    I'm not satisfied in scumreading Reaper, but I believe in lynching every day and certainly don't have a strong townread, either. We need to stop going for lynchbait inconsistencies and start actually reading people for alignment. Today's trains are not good.
    This really says nothing at all and is a direct avoidance of reading the slot.

    Returning to the Tracer read: focusing on scum narrative isn’t necessarily AI; it’s one of those questionable things that is also indicative of tunneling town and so a meh read to base a scumread off of. He falls into his own trap: He fails to see the town narrative inherent in Tracer’s approach.

    Seeing that his vote gets no traction, however, (and with no post to followup on his Tracer scumread in between) around 150 posts later he abruptly declares a need to consolidate trains with a vote on McCree, only later speaking more on his Tracer scumread in post #2989, which focused more on trying to argue that his points were scumreads. Yet one statement was quite strange to me:

    It can fit into a scum narrative, yes. But that's now how you find out if someone is scum or not. The fact that something can fit into a scum narrative does not mean that it is evidence for that narrative. This is precisely why I voted you: You're making a narrative without checking if you actually found scum. Scum has a lot of reason to do this, because their objective is to get mislynches off, not figure out alignments. Town, on the other hand, needs to find scum, not just lynch someone they can make a story on.
    While Tracer has shown a tendency to ignore town motivations, scum players are found by their scum motivation and behavior. There is little to no distinction between these two methods, yet it is being presented as if there is. He justifies his read with the following:

    As I've explained in a previous post, because her posts ignore possible town motivation and instead only see how well a scum narrative can fit her selected target. Scum want to mislynch town by making them look like scum; town, on the other hand, need to be on the lookout for both town and scum motivations in order to lynch accurately. Tracer's analyses fit much more the profile of the former than the latter.
    Again, see the above about falling into his own trap.

    Roadhog also has a strange tendency to ask questions: Example, #3004 about “if you were scum, what would you be talking about in your chat?” Ok, he asks this question but says nothing about it afterwards.

    As a continuation of his avoidance of slot-specific analysis, he spends time discussing game modes and PRs (NAI in itself but part of the narrative). One post I found very strange was #3279:

    I have to be off for now. Zenyatta, I'm appointing you in charge of making sure Tracer responds to post 2989.
    Why did he select Zenyatta of all people, who at the beginning of day had only said “Best Journal Article EUW/NA”? I’m not sure how to read this, but it’s something to keep note of.

    #3620, calls out Tracer for using… host meta. Discussion of game spec and arguing that point, NAI in and of itself but again, refuses to slot-read. Could be a subtle discredit attempt. Also, even after he said he had caught up on the day, he still fails to provide any new thoughts of utility about slots.

    #3692, continues the pattern of discrediting Tracer through her scumtells and scumreading… so. He himself admits that self-awareness is higher in proportion among scum (see my discussion with him on this issue) but, arguing that it is not a good scumtell,… and so keeps his vote on Tracer. Yet its higher prevalence among scum at least makes it somewhat tenable as a scumhunting tool, and so Tracer’s use of it betrays no heavy lean in either direction.

    #3695, comments on the 9 guests viewing the thread as google bots? Ok? Subtly implies that he isn’t one of the scum “just sitting by hoping something will happen that they don't have to dirty their hands with?”

    He also asked me to formulate a probability space for the scenarios surrounding the Tracer/WM confrontation, even going on to ping me when I hadn’t responded for a bit. Yet… once I give it, he never comments again except later on in #4203, ‘You yourself say there's a 20% chance they're both town, and I would put my own probabilities at about the same.’ Does Roadhog know that I’m town and so sheeps my numbers in order to mold a town perspective for himself?

    #4154 is a small attempt at Zarya but criticizes Zarya’s scumhunting style – again, seems to himself diminish town motivation where Zarya was actually just telling the truth about how she scumhunted. And then… if that was the first part… where’s the other part? Why isn’t Roadhog sharing the rest of his read(s)? Why does he only imply that he has more but doesn’t share it? He’s guilty of what he’s accusing Zarya of.

    He continues this later with:

    Okay, I'm just going to say right now that I moderately-to-strongly scumread Zarya. I don't have the patience to go into specifics right now, but her style of scumreading bothers me on so many levels. The lack of actual backbone to try to find something to scumread someone for is probably the most damning part.

    In any case, Zarya isn't today's lynch and there's no point in me starting that train now. I'll try to formulate some thoughts tonight/tomorrow (game time) when I have more willpower to do such, and when it can actually be productive.

    I could see either white knighting or scumbuddy defending in her behavior and am not at all comfortable in using this scumread to try to hang Tracer, who has been suspicious enough in her own right with her cheap reads.
    Note what he says: Zarya’s style of scumreading bothers him, not the logic itself. A lack of backbone is also present in towns who are not confident in their ability to read scum. And he refuses to put his vote (could be town not wanting to waste his vote, could also be scum trying to keep the lynch pressure on Tracer). This is so weird.

    Anyway I’m tired and lazy and I now have 1.5 hours to look at the other people so I won’t continue this – but, strong scum candidate in Roadhog. The last point is to determine whether his train on Tracer was actually a chainsaw or not – people will need to look at timing. Still, I encourage people to look through his ISO themselves, it’s not too long.

    (plus the whole push based on ‘she’s mislynched two people! Ah!’)

    M-FM Junkrat: I have no idea what this slot is doing. Could be brazen scum or tunnel-town. His lock on Tracer began early Day 1.

    M-FM Zenyatta: Screw this slot. (Policy)-lynch it with fire.

    In all seriousness, I’ll leave trying to read the chaos that is this slot to those more familiar with the player.

    M-FM Torbjorn: Eh… the Reinhardt move felt strange to me (though Symmetra was pushing it too IIRC). NAI though, could either be scum realizing a Tracer lynch wasn’t happening and trying to avoid suspicion this way, or town with the same idea trying to find a compromise. Made a comment about journalist target being scum but didn’t push it.

    The statistics thing felt really weird, though, but not in a way that scum would do… So town lean?

    His taking over of game mode control is also a bit interesting – but in my gut I don’t think scum does it tbh. Would be pretty daring.

    M-FM Mei: I’m pretty sure Mei is town. Mei’s heavy tunneling of Tracer after Tracer refused to respond reads as a genuine town reaction to thinking they had found a scum, whereas a scum might have simply relented on the pressure in order to not appear as a tunnel. Nor would I consider Mei’s attack on Tracer a chainsaw or an attempt at discredit in order to protect a scum like Widowmaker, as it began in the middle of Day 1.

    Additionally, if Mei was attempting to discredit Tracer as a town player, then its failure in Day 1 and lukewarm reception in at least the first half of Day 2 would have encouraged a scum Mei to move on and target another: for instance, myself.

    Mei’s lack of reads, as pointed out by Tracer, along with what they actually were when provided in #3581, supports the narrative of tunneling town.

    The original read I gave was town, and I’ve seen nothing screaming scum at me in order to change it. I think Mei’s tunnel was a convenient one for scum to jump onto, but that he’s not scum himself.

    One might point to Mei’s decision to move onto the two mislynch trains as scummy, but it’s NAI – scum would do it, so would a town who genuinely realized that his favored lynch was not happening and so preferred to get a flip.

    M-FM Symmetra: I think this slot is town (Tracer could probably construct a better argument than I, assuming she isn’t just tricking us all through an insane gambit play :P ). If Roadhog flips scum, it’d also fit in with his comments trying to attack Tracer on host meta over whether there are 2 scum Masons or not.

    MY RECOMMENDATION:

    Lynch Roadhog + Zenyatta / Junkrat / Torbjorn (order of preference among these three)

    Good luck.

    I would insert Lucio’s ultimate shout here for flavor but I’m not a RPleb… even my staunchest fellow enemy of the RPleb legions has begun to fall into the darkness.

    Temporal efficiency… pfftt kek.

    Player List Alignments Dead Zone
    M-FM Bastion
    M-FM Genji
    M-FM Hanzo
    M-FM Junkrat
    M-FM Lucio
    M-FM McCree
    M-FM Mei
    M-FM Mercy
    M-FM Pharah
    M-FM Reaper
    M-FM Reinhardt
    M-FM Roadhog
    M-FM Soldier 76
    M-FM Symmetra
    M-FM Torbjorn
    M-FM Tracer
    M-FM Widowmaker
    M-FM Winston
    M-FM Zarya
    M-FM Zenyatta
    Hidden Town Citizen/Citizen/BusDriver
    Hidden Town Citizen/Blacksmith/Spy
    Hidden Town Citizen/Citizen/Citizen
    Hidden Town Citizen/Coroner/Sheriff
    Hidden Town Sheriff/Citizen/Citizen
    Hidden Town
    Hidden Town
    Hidden Town
    Hidden Town
    Hidden Town
    Hidden Town
    Hidden Town
    Hidden Town
    Hidden Town
    Hidden Town
    Hidden Town
    /Omnic
    Omnic
    Omnic
    Omnic
    Omnic Mason Leader/Citizen/Spy
    M-FM Mercy, Lynched Day 1, Town Cit/Cit/BD
    M-FM Genji, Died Night 1, Town Cit/BS/Spy
    M-FM Reaper, Lynched Day 2, Town Cit/Cit/Cit
    M-FM Pharah, Died Night 2, Town Cit/Cor/Sher
    M-FM Widowmaker, Lynched Day 3, Omnic ML/Cit/Spy
    M-FM Lucio, Killed Night 3, Town Sheriff/Cit/Cit

    With 14 Left Alive, It Takes 8 votes to hammer.

    • 00

    • 00

    • 00

    • 00

    DAYS HOURS MINUTES SECONDS

    Don't pet growlithe, he will bite you.

  15. ISO #4365

  16. ISO #4366

  17. ISO #4367

  18. ISO #4368

    Re: M-FM Overwatch

    Shout out to the scum for not killing me last night, as if they actually have a chance of evading a lynch today while I'm onto them.

    I don't know wherever to post my own Last Will or leave it for a bit to give more of the spotlight to Lucio's Last Will.

    Nah, just kidding.

    -vote M-FM Roadhog


    Some encouragement to respond, sweetheart.

  19. ISO #4369

  20. ISO #4370

  21. ISO #4371

    Re: M-FM Overwatch

    Quote Originally Posted by M-FM Tracer View Post
    Shout out to the scum for not killing me last night, as if they actually have a chance of evading a lynch today while I'm onto them.

    I don't know wherever to post my own Last Will or leave it for a bit to give more of the spotlight to Lucio's Last Will.

    Nah, just kidding.

    -vote M-FM Roadhog


    Some encouragement to respond, sweetheart.
    Do you want me to stab Roadhog or Zenyatta? I wanted to fucking stab Zenyatta in the fucking face with my fucking sword

  22. ISO #4372

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  29. ISO #4379

    Re: M-FM Overwatch

    Quote Originally Posted by M-FM Tracer View Post
    Roadhog/ Junkrat/ Mei/ Zenyatta FTW

    Don't lynch outside of this and we have won the game.
    Nice to know that you still have the "everyone who wanted me lynched is scum" idea. I guess the "poor town" was actually accurate. You seem to get stuck into these fantasies that "all the scum have to be lurkers for bullshit reasons where I even contradicted my own previous statements on" and "all the scum were among my train."

    Sound logic, you surely won't pull more mislynches.

    I'll admit when I'm wrong though, you're highly unlikely to be scum at this point, I just think you're gonna be too stubborn to reanalyze anything that could possibly be against you, which is where the "poor town" comes from.

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  34. ISO #4384

    Re: M-FM Overwatch

    Quote Originally Posted by M-FM Winston View Post
    I guess I can toy with people a bit

    @M-FM Roadhog why should I use the sword on Mei or Zenyatta and not you!

    @M-FM Mei , why should I use the sword on Roadhog or Zenyatta and not you?

    @M-FM Zenyatta why should I use the sword on Mei or Roadhog and not you?
    It's almost certainly fake because no sane town person would ever give you of all morons a sword.

  35. ISO #4385

    Re: M-FM Overwatch

    Quote Originally Posted by M-FM Mei View Post
    Nice to know that you still have the "everyone who wanted me lynched is scum" idea. I guess the "poor town" was actually accurate. You seem to get stuck into these fantasies that "all the scum have to be lurkers for bullshit reasons where I even contradicted my own previous statements on" and "all the scum were among my train."

    Sound logic, you surely won't pull more mislynches.

    I'll admit when I'm wrong though, you're highly unlikely to be scum at this point, I just think you're gonna be too stubborn to reanalyze anything that could possibly be against you, which is where the "poor town" comes from.
    Yup Mei is winning the sword race right now. Urge to stab rising.

  36. ISO #4386

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  39. ISO #4389

    Re: M-FM Overwatch

    Roadhog
    @M-FM Roadhog

    Get cracking, scrub.

    1. Was on the Tracer counter-wagon for shoddy reasoning. It boils down to a) doesn't like how I scum-hunt and b) doesn't like that I consider self-awareness a scum tell.

    2. Votes with players that HE HIMSELF HAS SCUM-READ. Earlier he noted that Mei's certainty in a read was unreasonably high. Despite this point being something that Roadhog harped on about, he does not reconsider his vote. If he thinks I've been too certain in a read then he has not said so.

    3. Posts where he attempts to push the "Widowmaker is too scummy to be scum" narrative

    Calix, how strong are you still on that Widowmaker scumread? You made some good points about how they're not being a good town, but how do you distinguish between a scum who slips and a lynchbait newb town that flails under any amount of pressure?
    Anyone who's been here longer than you have will tell you Stealth's meta is basically to flail as any alignment under the guise of crazy gambits to try to solve the game via people's responses to them. Not that I'm arguing that meta should be the basis of a read.

    But I'm still not satisfied to this point: How do you conclude Stealth isn't just "pulling a Gyrlander" and seeming really scummy as town because of not being used to pressure? What, in his behavior, makes you comfortable ruling out flailing town?
    M-FM Widowmaker , you should start making some defensive statements, and roleclaim if you haven't yet.
    Listen, I haven't taken the time to make a read on you yet, but if you want to stay alive you really should find a way to contribute. You can't change anyone's mind unless you give them a new reason to.
    4. Lack of initiative

    While I'm posting my thoughts, can someone mass-ping the people who aren't voting yet? The slow voting worries me that there's a scum on the line and that scum are playing it cautious to see if they need to bus or not.
    Not really a scum tell, but why not just do it yourself?

    Why does everyone under-analyze every time Torbjorn does something interesting? He proposes voting Bastion out of the blue for a ridiculously flawed (assumes 5 scum, assumes they haven't voted for each other, ignores the bias that this is actually just a "lynch the lurkers" tool) statistical method. Someone 10x lazier than I am could at least have bothered to point out how he's relying on something other than trying to read people, how he voted someone who isn't dying today, and just how carelessly he chose his method.
    "Wah wah, why do people not do the scum-hunting for me? I'm going to evade this question by putting the onus away from me so that I can blame everyone else for not noticing these NAI things!"

    The longer this goes on the more I regret not pushing Tracer harder today.
    At this point, Widowmaker was at L-1. This looks suspiciously like scum feeling regret for the fact that they are going to lose their team mate AND have their entire scum team outed as a result.

    5. Not much for associations (unsurprising):

    Roadhog-
    Worth mentioning simply because he has a completely theoretical 20% to be an Omnic. For lack of better reads, I think Roadhog is a possibility we should consider.
    Completely unnecessary mention of a lurker. Scum would be more aware of how their scum buddies are doing, hence why he included this.

    And you fucking dismissed my Roadhog scumread
    Pissed off that I ignored his attempt at distancing from his scum buddy. Nobody else would give a fuck that their scum-read was being overlooked.

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    Re: M-FM Overwatch

    Quote Originally Posted by M-FM Mei View Post
    Sure, either way a town dies. So give that -1 to the town please.

    Only way a scum dies in this scenario is if a town swordsmith gave out a fake sword to a scumread. I wouldn't be surprised by that.
    So you're saying you, Roadhog, and Zenyatta are town, and I'm scum? Ayyyyy lmao

  45. ISO #4395

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    Re: M-FM Overwatch

    Quote Originally Posted by M-FM Tracer View Post
    Why waste time on your horrible paragraph wars when Winston has a shiny stabby sword thing?

    Answer the questions or GTFO, scrub.
    I don't need to. I'm fairly confident it's fake, and if it isn't, "oh well", you both get to learn how wrong you are. And if Winston dies from a backfire? Nothing of worth is lost.

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