M-FM Overwatch

[M-FM Symmetra]

Sixth Mafia, what is your COM exactly?

Does it matter to you?

[M-FM Tracer]

Does it matter to you?

If you're going to insist on being argumentative and refusing to engage with the case against Mei then so be it.

[M-FM Symmetra]

If you're going to insist on being argumentative and refusing to engage with the case against Mei then so be it.

What case? You being a spoiled brat is not a case.

[M-FM Symmetra]

Like look, you can pretend any reaction to being threatened is a scumclaim. It's not.

Mei's been spot on in the thread.

Now, you can insult me and be divisive or we can unite and lynch scum.

[M-FM Tracer]

I know Sixth Mafia is just going to ignore this post or go "lol terribad read" but here's what I posted earlier in the thread. Not a "case" per se as much as it is me ranting:

His tunneling is intentional (he's ONLY tunneled two townies) because it means he can evade giving reads on other players. As noted, he has not given reads on ELEVEN PLAYERS (who are still alive) yet he has one of the highest post counts.

He does nothing but post long, rambling walls of contradictory statements. He rarely town-reads players, only focuses on discrediting and tunneling on people and deliberately evades attempts at giving reads on players. This allows him to attack whoever he pleases because he has left his options open.

His scum-reads are also opportunistic. Case in point, his attempt to discredit me because I mislynched twice and using Hanzo's claim to call him scum without giving a read on him outside of "tone" or "suspicion"

He is self-aware of how he appears to others, citing his "aggression" as a reason he should be town-read, even though said aggression has no purpose and has only been used to avoid contributing to the chat. This is just one of his numerous contradictions because he calls Hanzo suspicious for being "too aggressive" when defending me.

He is another player who is fond of directing TPRs. In his case, he loves directing the vigilante shot to Hanzo, Zenyatta, etc, which makes it look like he's paranoid about being shot himself.

Speaking of paranoia, he has attempted to show that with some of his posts. His "irritation" over me bringing up his status as a PR struck me as somewhat townie at the time...until I remembered that scum had a constant chat where they could remind each other of claims. Thus said paranoia had no founding whatsoever and comes across as contrived. His initial aggression over me "destroying discussion" is also exaggerated because he is faking emotions to get town-cred and avoid making sensible contributions.

He constantly puts down and insults players and their skill if they disagree or scum-read him. His ONLY "town motivation" for me is that I am a terrible player. He takes more jabs at Winston and "scum-reads" him in the same breath. He calls Bastion an idiot for scum-reading him. (another contradiction - he called me scum because I insulted his intelligence)

Have I talked about HOW he writes? It's so fucking painful to read his posts of "literally, kinda, imo, actually" and the waffling makes me want to hack off his hands with an axe.

The entirety of Day 1 was just him discussing game theory. There is almost nothing AI to be divined from such chatter. He then accuses me of "destroying discussion" when I point out said NAI game theory - this is why he started to scum-read me in the first place.

He was also in favour of a No Lynch even though that would deprive town of information (keep in mind he's a PR role so this has clear self-interest behind it because HE'LL have access to information but not everyone else) - this is something he takes to the extreme because he made up a fictitious 1v1 scenario between Mercy and I, saying that I was scum if Mercy flipped town and that he refused to vote for Mercy because he didn't want to lose a town. He then backtracks on this philosophy later with the Hanzo/ Lucio 1v1 and says "oh I guess we have to lose townies to get information"

He never reconsiders his scum reads. There is NEVER any reasonable town motivation behind anything that I say save for "lol bad player" and he didn't do the same with Pharah.

Once he says someone is scum, that is it. They never move out of that scum bracket - this goes hand in hand with his attempts to keep his options open.

[M-FM Torbjorn]

The projection is real. The player who has sided with the scum the entire game is calling ME pro-scum.

You cannot make this shit up.

yo, you led the mercy lynch (and reaper idr), you can't insinuate symmetra's pro scum

[M-FM Tracer]

Like look, you can pretend any reaction to being threatened is a scumclaim. It's not.

Mei's been spot on in the thread.

Now, you can insult me and be divisive or we can unite and lynch scum.

Mind melds. Right.

Zenyatta is scum. I know this. I want them lynched tomorrow because it is so obvious.

I just have to get Mei first because he is more of a threat as scum than Zenyatta is.

[M-FM Tracer]

yo, you led the mercy lynch (and reaper idr), you can't insinuate symmetra's pro scum

I lead ALL the lynches. Your point?

[M-FM Hanzo]

yo, you led the mercy lynch (and reaper idr), you can't insinuate symmetra's pro scum

I started the Reaper train though, but I guess Tracer led it.

[M-FM Symmetra]

Half the things you argue are opposite to each other. Having a fixed scumread is inconsistent with keeping options open. Both can be scummy depending on context.

You should actually consider that you can be wrong after mislynching twice. Not an improper discredit.

Directing vig shots is common.

You insulting me and discrediting me because you disagree sounds exactly like what you're doing to me.

Painful and annoying are not scummy.

Like I could go on but I am tired.

[M-FM Torbjorn]

Mind melds. Right.

Zenyatta is scum. I know this. I want them lynched tomorrow because it is so obvious.

I just have to get Mei first because he is more of a threat as scum than Zenyatta is.

so the problem between you two is lynching easy scum over hard scum...

[M-FM Torbjorn]

Half the things you argue are opposite to each other. Having a fixed scumread is inconsistent with keeping options open. Both can be scummy depending on context.

You should actually consider that you can be wrong after mislynching twice. Not an improper discredit.

Directing vig shots is common.

You insulting me and discrediting me because you disagree sounds exactly like what you're doing to me.

Painful and annoying are not scummy.

Like I could go on but I am tired.

agree with these

[M-FM Symmetra]

Mind melds. Right.

Zenyatta is scum. I know this. I want them lynched tomorrow because it is so obvious.

I just have to get Mei first because he is more of a threat as scum than Zenyatta is.

Why? Let's just lynch scum and get done with it. Just have Mei do a readwall if you're concerned with opportunism.

[M-FM Symmetra]

so the problem between you two is lynching easy scum over hard scum...

No. Mei is town.

It's the Zs and Rein as scum.

[M-FM Hanzo]

LMAO... Ignore any of my role-card related comments because I found the list of roles....

Why do you push Zenyatta then opposed to Reinhardt/Zarya?

[M-FM Symmetra]

LMAO... Ignore any of my role-card related comments because I found the list of roles....

Why do you push Zenyatta then opposed to Reinhardt/Zarya?

Because I am townreading Tor, Tracer, and Hanzo and we agree on Zenyatta being scum and a unifying town is the best way to eliminate scum.

[M-FM Tracer]

Half the things you argue are opposite to each other. Having a fixed scumread is inconsistent with keeping options open. Both can be scummy depending on context.

You should actually consider that you can be wrong after mislynching twice. Not an improper discredit.

Directing vig shots is common.

You insulting me and discrediting me because you disagree sounds exactly like what you're doing to me.

Painful and annoying are not scummy.

Like I could go on but I am tired.

No. My argument is that he ONLY focuses on 1-2 players at a time at the expense of everyone else. If one of his "scum reads" flips town then he can easily move onto the next target because he has given no prior opinion of them. Note how indecisive and waffly his reads are, how he brings up irrelevant points and NAI details to inflate the reads and hide the fact that he has said NOTHING of substance.

I am often wrong in the early days and right later on. It is just how I operate.

It would be...but Mei has said in previous games that all TPR hunting is a scum tell. Thus it is notable when he does it himself. He has also said that players directing Vigilantes fear being shot themselves. It is reasonable to assume he is operating under this logic right now.

Waffling is a scum tell - scum can post long, contentless walls to make it LOOK like he is contributing when he actually says nothing. Note how you always have to prod him/ mention him before he posts and that the posts he makes on his own initiative add little to the conversation.

so the problem between you two is lynching easy scum over hard scum...

If Mei doesn't get lynched today then he is never going to be lynched.

[M-FM Hanzo]

Because I am townreading Tor, Tracer, and Hanzo and we agree on Zenyatta being scum and a unifying town is the best way to eliminate scum.

My only issue with this is IF Zenyatta flips town, we are left with nothing. IF they flip scum, that's one less scum but we are still left with nothing. I would rather pursue someone with more town-reads and scum-reads so we can get somewhere with this. I want to vote Mei because I scum-read them, but it can also get us somewhere if he flips scum.

I also know that Gyrlander is sick, and as I said I want to hear them speak before lynching and so I feel waiting for a replacement/them coming back would be optimal.

Thoughts?

[M-FM Symmetra]

@Tracer, Wrong. Some people are capable of reevaluating reads. It doesn't mean you get what you want or it will never happen. That attitude is toxic as fuck. Do you believe that no one here will ever reevaluate on later days?

If you feel like Mei is refusing to look at the whole game, ask for a read wall. See what she thinks. Call my bluff. Then they'll be something to analyze besides your ego.

[M-FM Tracer]

@Tracer, Wrong. Some people are capable of reevaluating reads. It doesn't mean you get what you want or it will never happen. That attitude is toxic as fuck. Do you believe that no one here will ever reevaluate on later days?

If you feel like Mei is refusing to look at the whole game, ask for a read wall. See what she thinks. Call my bluff. Then they'll be something to analyze besides your ego.

I don't trust players here to do that. He has to die while I am still alive to holler for his lynch because I'm one of the few players who can hardcore push on this site.

I already did that. He posted his reads...I just commented on them in that post you're responding to...

I would highly recommend looking through Mei's post for his reads wall. Note that he hasn't pushed anyone outside of Tracer/ Pharah and has yet to do ANY pushing of ANYONE today.

[M-FM Symmetra]

My only issue with this is IF Zenyatta flips town, we are left with nothing. IF they flip scum, that's one less scum but we are still left with nothing. I would rather pursue someone with more town-reads and scum-reads so we can get somewhere with this. I want to vote Mei because I scum-read them, but it can also get us somewhere if he flips scum.

I also know that Gyrlander is sick, and as I said I want to hear them speak before lynching and so I feel waiting for a replacement/them coming back would be optimal.

Thoughts?

Zenyatta flipping town does get us info, in who wanted each wagon and why. Same with Zenyatta flipping scum. If Zenyatta really was that terrible, who defended her? Who avoided comment? Same exact process if she flips scum.

If Mei flips scum, Tracer will just be an egomaniacal dick stopping this process from occurring.

Gyr should comment before the lynch because everyone should. Pressure =/= lynch. I want to hear from Zenya and Rein too.

Everyone should be heard and any behavior that discourages everyone from talking because my reads are better is a toxic thing we do not need.

[M-FM Symmetra]

I don't trust players here to do that. He has to die while I am still alive to holler for his lynch because I'm one of the few players who can hardcore push on this site.

I already did that. He posted his reads...I just commented on them in that post you're responding to...

I would highly recommend looking through Mei's post for his reads wall. Note that he hasn't pushed anyone outside of Tracer/ Pharah and has yet to do ANY pushing of ANYONE today.

Players put on the defensive so early rarely push anyone.

When's the last push by Zarya? Lucio...flipped town. Who was she defending? Rein.

Take a step back for a second. The lynch doesn't need to be determined this very second and look at the whole picture.

[M-FM Tracer]

Zenyatta flipping town does get us info, in who wanted each wagon and why. Same with Zenyatta flipping scum. If Zenyatta really was that terrible, who defended her? Who avoided comment? Same exact process if she flips scum.

If Mei flips scum, Tracer will just be an egomaniacal dick stopping this process from occurring.

Gyr should comment before the lynch because everyone should. Pressure =/= lynch. I want to hear from Zenya and Rein too.

Everyone should be heard and any behavior that discourages everyone from talking because my reads are better is a toxic thing we do not need.

I want Zenyatta lynched AFTER Mei. In literally no world did I say "Zenyatta should never be lynched" which is obvious because he's a scum read.

Gyrloser is not going to bother. He will barely post to avoid replacement like he did yesterday and will only vote at EOD. He poses NO threat to anyone because everyone scum-reads him so lynching him now is not optimal.

[M-FM Symmetra]

Look Tracer, you gotta learn to trust your fellow town. The game isn't Tracer solves it and you are my bitches. By insisting on your way because you don't trust anyone causes others not to trust you. That creates a cycle where everyone insists on their way.

[M-FM Tracer]

Players put on the defensive so early rarely push anyone.

When's the last push by Zarya? Lucio...flipped town. Who was she defending? Rein.

Take a step back for a second. The lynch doesn't need to be determined this very second and look at the whole picture.

He wasn't pushed for most of Day 1 or Day 2. He's only on the defensive TODAY.

Huh? What are you talking about?

I have looked at the whole picture and I have a viable scum team which was reinforced with Widowmaker's flip. Unless one of them flips town on future days (which I highly doubt) then I am not deviating away from that picture.

[M-FM Hanzo]

I'm not sure anyone has defended Zenyatta, unless they also said "dumb town" which isn't defending its a category.

I don't know what would change in Tracer, you act like Mei getting lynched and flipping is scum. Lynching Mei would be better and it would be beneficial, why are you defending Mei with the most odd points?

Sorry, Zenyatta is Gyrlander, so yeah that's what I meant (didn't mean to use COM) but obviously we want to hear from everyone, I don't know if Gyrlander will come due to circumstances (I can relate too, I'm sick ish right now)

Who is discouraging conversation?

[M-FM Tracer]

Look Tracer, you gotta learn to trust your fellow town. The game isn't Tracer solves it and you are my bitches. By insisting on your way because you don't trust anyone causes others not to trust you. That creates a cycle where everyone insists on their way.

Isn't this description what you were doing yesterday with your Zarya/ Reinhardt/ Torbjorn/ Tracer theory?

[M-FM Symmetra]

I want Zenyatta lynched AFTER Mei. In literally no world did I say "Zenyatta should never be lynched" which is obvious because he's a scum read.

Gyrloser is not going to bother. He will barely post to avoid replacement like he did yesterday and will only vote at EOD. He poses NO threat to anyone because everyone scum-reads him so lynching him now is not optimal.

I'm of the find scum lynch scum school myself. If Zenyatta is scum, she'll lurk. If Zenyatta is town, she'll fight. That is unless someone calls her a loser and demotivated her.

[M-FM Symmetra]

Isn't this description what you were doing yesterday with your Zarya/ Reinhardt/ Torbjorn/ Tracer theory?

No. I would have voted Tor if I was bullying. I went down to my less likely scumread because that was the wagon in place. Once Widow flipped scum, things started to clarify.

[M-FM Symmetra]

I get the whole "I am only going to vote my scumreads" attitude and that's ok to have.

What's not ok is to try to force any lynch before the players are on. We want people to contribute and feel valued.

[M-FM Tracer]

I'm of the find scum lynch scum school myself. If Zenyatta is scum, she'll lurk. If Zenyatta is town, she'll fight. That is unless someone calls her a loser and demotivated her.

I know what Zenyatta (Gyrloser's) meta is. He lurks as scum and likes to be pressured as town. This is 100% his scum game without a doubt, mate, just as this is TDL's scum game.

No. I would have voted Tor if I was bullying. I went down to my less likely scumread because that was the wagon in place. Once Widow flipped scum, things started to clarify.

Walk me through how things "clarified" for you following Widowmaker's lynch.

[M-FM Hanzo]

I get the whole "I am only going to vote my scumreads" attitude and that's ok to have.

What's not ok is to try to force any lynch before the players are on. We want people to contribute and feel valued.

But Mei WAS here... Isn't that what you're doing?

[M-FM Tracer]

In the meantime I am going to post this.

Look at it. People who suspect Tracer or who don't want her reads to die have died. Genji was suspect of Tracer D1, saying she should be lynched eventually. She died and no one batted an eye.

Lucio didn't think that all of her scum reads were scum, and didn't want to push them so hard, he died.

And YOU should be one of the most vocal people for the very reason that comes from the ROLES YOU HAVE.

Why is Mei so aware of the reads of everyone who has died? He remembers a throwaway comment by Genji even though he died almost a week ago.

So I just learned this isn't even proper format.

Town's first reaction is NOT to check with the host to make sure they aren't actually dead. That's an action that comes from a survival-orientated mindset. Town would NOT refuse to answer Winston's questions or keep baiting Winston the way Mei did because they would want the sword to be used on someone who ISN'T (from their POV) confirmed town. There is NO town motivation behind Mei's antagonism towards Winston nor for his certainty that the sword was fake.

His reaction to Winston dying was to be SMUG that he was correct before saying "I bet Tracer will be a moron and lynch me anyway"

That smugness isn't how town would react to them being responsible for a likely town trying to kill them.

[M-FM McCree]

Mei seemed like he was town day 1 and he was gone a lot so maybe he just made a mistake in voting Tracer. Zenyatta would be a decent lynch but two people who didn't vote Widowmaker are voting him... I think our best lynch for today is Junkrat.

-vote M-FM Junkrat

[M-FM Symmetra]

@Tracer, If you have no doubt on Zenyatta's meta, lynch her. Period. I am not sure who TDL is in this game.

Once Widowmaker was lynched, Tor became more likely to be town. The efforts to lynch Rein and get town working together make zero sense to come from an PoV other than town. It did not make sense.

I was drawn back to why wasn't Tor pressured for that T v T comment when it was so blatantly antitown? I struggled with that for awhile. But then it hit me. Scum are letting the anti-town leaders run amok.

That explains why Tracer was not mislynched. His yelling kills scumhunting.

Do you think it's a surprise that every time one of Zenya Zenyatta or Rein getswagoned there's suddenly a new and better counter?

That Zenya was let free to tunnel Lucio?

That no one sat you down after the first two lynches and you having 1/5 of all posts and telling you to take your foot off the gas?

[M-FM Symmetra]

Mei seemed like he was town day 1 and he was gone a lot so maybe he just made a mistake in voting Tracer. Zenyatta would be a decent lynch but two people who didn't vote Widowmaker are voting him... I think our best lynch for today is Junkrat.

-vote M-FM Junkrat

This is why you lived Tracer.

[M-FM Symmetra]

I'm not sure anyone has defended Zenyatta, unless they also said "dumb town" which isn't defending its a category.

I don't know what would change in Tracer, you act like Mei getting lynched and flipping is scum. Lynching Mei would be better and it would be beneficial, why are you defending Mei with the most odd points?

Sorry, Zenyatta is Gyrlander, so yeah that's what I meant (didn't mean to use COM) but obviously we want to hear from everyone, I don't know if Gyrlander will come due to circumstances (I can relate too, I'm sick ish right now)

Who is discouraging conversation?

You two, especially Tracer. I hate your whole attitude that pressuring Zenyatta will be autolynch so we should only talk about Mei.

[M-FM Tracer]

Mei seemed like he was town day 1 and he was gone a lot so maybe he just made a mistake in voting Tracer. Zenyatta would be a decent lynch but two people who didn't vote Widowmaker are voting him... I think our best lynch for today is Junkrat.

-vote M-FM Junkrat

Lynch Mei first. Junkrat isn't enough of a threat to bother with.

Mei didn't make a mistake. He was tunneling me since I called him out on a benign thing and is using it to avoid scum-hunting elsewhere. Don't let confirmation bias from D1 affect your read.

@Tracer, If you have no doubt on Zenyatta's meta, lynch her. Period. I am not sure who TDL is in this game.

Once Widowmaker was lynched, Tor became more likely to be town. The efforts to lynch Rein and get town working together make zero sense to come from an PoV other than town. It did not make sense.

I was drawn back to why wasn't Tor pressured for that T v T comment when it was so blatantly antitown? I struggled with that for awhile. But then it hit me. Scum are letting the anti-town leaders run amok.

That explains why Tracer was not mislynched. His yelling kills scumhunting.

Do you think it's a surprise that every time one of Zenya Zenyatta or Rein getswagoned there's suddenly a new and better counter?

That Zenya was let free to tunnel Lucio?

That no one sat you down after the first two lynches and you having 1/5 of all posts and telling you to take your foot off the gas?

If someone is obvious scum then their slot is sorted. Lynching them sorts NOTHING.

TDL = Mei.

I can agree that the anti-town members are being left around ;)

It's why my scum reads have been pushing back against me as hard as they have done. Mei continues to discredit me by calling me a shit player, saying my reads are terrible (without explaining WHY any of them are) in lieu of any contribution. This would be fine by itself save for the fact that it is ALL he does.

Zenyatta has NEVER been a wagon. Reinhardt was being wagoned by Widowmaker...why would scum bus in that situation on such a flimsy train?

I always post a shitload in the thread. Love it or hate it, it's how I come.

[M-FM Tracer]

You can talk about Gyrloser, but he isn't going to respond to anything you have to say. I guarantee you of this. Your reads and suspicions will never be countered by him.

[M-FM McCree]

Okay I'll listen to Winston and follow Tracer.

-vote M-FM Mei

[M-FM Bastion]

I'm starting to think Mei did nothing wrong. Will have to catch up later, gtg to work now

[M-FM McCree]

Also Hanzo can I give you another vest tonight?

[M-FM Symmetra]

Lynching obvious scum is our win condition.

Like no one wins by mislynching and saying gee I know who all the scum are now.

We take the obvious scum information and lynch them. Resistance us futile.

Scum bus because caught. Reinhardt slipped. Tor caught it. You just happened to guess right on Widow.

[M-FM Tracer]

Also Hanzo can I give you another vest tonight?

You know he is a BULLETPROOF in this mode, right?

[M-FM Symmetra]

Also Hanzo can I give you another vest tonight?

Seriously, it's better than Tracer but still dumb...

[M-FM Tracer]

Lynching obvious scum is our win condition.

Like no one wins by mislynching and saying gee I know who all the scum are now.

We take the obvious scum information and lynch them. Resistance us futile.

Scum bus because caught. Reinhardt slipped. Tor caught it. You just happened to guess right on Widow.

No, you keep them around to rat out the other scum or cannon fodder them.

That's exactly what I do though. Reaper, anyone?

That wasn't a slip.

I spent pages upon pages trying to get people to vote for Widowmaker...that is hardly "just happening to guess right"

[M-FM Symmetra]

No, you keep them around to rat out the other scum or cannon fodder them.

That's exactly what I do though. Reaper, anyone?

That wasn't a slip.

I spent pages upon pages trying to get people to vote for Widowmaker...that is hardly "just happening to guess right"

Yeah, you can spend pages persuading people of a guess.

You want to keep Zaryetta around to rat out scum when she has zero incentive to talk? You know how to find scum? Awkward defenses. Strained reads. Things people refused to explain. Lurking.

You get all that by wagoning obvious scum. Not by bitching at your townread that is trying to work with you.

[M-FM McCree]

You know he is a BULLETPROOF in this mode, right?

Better safe than sorry.

[M-FM Hanzo]

Also Hanzo can I give you another vest tonight?

Sure! I love having more vests that I actually can't use! I'll stack them up for Support mode.

Have you COM claimed? If not I'm assuming you might be MESK.

[M-FM Tracer]

Yeah, you can spend pages persuading people of a guess.

You want to keep Zaryetta around to rat out scum when she has zero incentive to talk? You know how to find scum? Awkward defenses. Strained reads. Things people refused to explain. Lurking.

You get all that by wagoning obvious scum. Not by bitching at your townread that is trying to work with you.

No, that isn't what I mean with ratting out scum/ bullet fodder. Seriously, Zenyatta staying alive tonight is a GREAT idea. Look at how OBVIOUS he is.

So wagon Mei and see how people react? Everyone is more divided on Mei so it is more telling. That solves your problem ;)