M-FM Overwatch

[M-FM Pharah]

Oh God not the "you can't do shit because you don't have the votes on me, har har" response again

How is it strong reasoning if you are town? Surely said reasoning should be inherently flawed from your POV...?

Why are you not trying to counter the reasoning or...do anything? I've literally said my reason for voting you is "I agree with Mei's opinion of you, also these EOD posts are scummy"

no it is not that. its me pointing out to people who are refusing to vote me "because they dont like the votes on me" when the votes are thought out and not challenged.

strong reasoning can be flawed. its based on more of an act of selfishness from my part, constantly pushing people and questions there motives whilst not giving any reeds myself. i tryed to push other people and make it easier to find the scum. forgetting that other people need to see who i see as scum and town to help ther effors in finding scum and reaslising im town.

mostly because it is easier right now to reply to a post. thatn to dig back and bring up other posts because i do not have a laptop with me untill an hour or two from now.

Oh, I will.

Okay yes, that's all fine and dandy theoretically speaking, but you have not given much reasoning yourself. Are we to assume that you're implicating yourself as being scummy?

wouldnt it be better that other people post thier reason befire i make it easier to explain for them?

[M-FM Pharah]

@Cryptonic dear forum mafia admin.
please fix the accounts. they can not view profile. letting them view profile will make it easier to nagivate when looking back. and also give accsess to "mentions"

[M-FM Tracer]

no it is not that. its me pointing out to people who are refusing to vote me "because they dont like the votes on me" when the votes are thought out and not challenged.

I agree that your defenders should present a case for why you're town/ the case against you is flawed.

strong reasoning can be flawed. its based on more of an act of selfishness from my part, constantly pushing people and questions there motives whilst not giving any reeds myself. i tryed to push other people and make it easier to find the scum. forgetting that other people need to see who i see as scum and town to help ther effors in finding scum and reaslising im town.

Yes, and it's easier to see your thoughts when you give a complete list of reads like we've asked for. That is what's missing at the moment and until you post that, everything else (in this discussion) is fluff.

Don't bore me with "but I'm busy right now" and actually get thinking about those reads, please. I can wait.

mostly because it is easier right now to reply to a post. thatn to dig back and bring up other posts because i do not have a laptop with me untill an hour or two from now.


wouldnt it be better that other people post thier reason befire i make it easier to explain for them?

Do people not know how to paraphrase around here?

Piggybacking off old reasoning is something that's very easy to pick up on and shows that they didn't have decent reasoning to begin with. This point, for example, is one that Mei made earlier.

[M-FM Tracer]

In the meantime, did you ever explain that Winston vote? Because that hasn't become less terrible.

[M-FM Winston]

In the meantime, did you ever explain that Winston vote? Because that hasn't become less terrible.

Yeah she did, last page

[M-FM Widowmaker]

I see I've got a train going on me now. I'll write up a defense when I'm home.

Just kind of surprised at the fact I've got a train. Is this because you didn't like my contribution? At least I am contributing.

[M-FM Winston]

I see I've got a train going on me now. I'll write up a defense when I'm home.

Just kind of surprised at the fact I've got a train. Is this because you didn't like my contribution? At least I am contributing.

Reasons have been given. Read them.

Contribution =/= town btw

[M-FM Tracer]

Yeah she did, last page

From personal experience I suspect that isn't particularly AI as you're capable of emotional outbursts as all alignments.

If she is struggling to differentiate between it being legit or staged, you would expect her to have, oh I don't know, been more curious and ask questions about it?

Don't think she is really trying to solve your alignment with that vote and given you're around when she is, that seems inefficient at best...

[M-FM Pharah]

then tracy i will not post until i post the reads.


if anyone needs me to reply notify me with amention

[M-FM Zenyatta]

Reasons have been given. Read them.

Contribution =/= town btw

I disagree. Most people are town-reading Tracer because she is contributing a lot and that is fine. However, we can't use that with Calix because she will just spam and spam thoughts even if she's Mafia so... yeah. Hard to read.

[M-FM Tracer]

I see I've got a train going on me now. I'll write up a defense when I'm home.

Just kind of surprised at the fact I've got a train. Is this because you didn't like my contribution? At least I am contributing.

LOL at "at least I'm contributing" as if you deserve a fucking cookie for posting. Everyone line up to suck Widowmaker's dick, they actually deigned to POST in a game that they SIGNED for.

[M-FM Reaper]

I'm on page 100. Going to get caught up now.

[M-FM Pharah]

From personal experience I suspect that isn't particularly AI as you're capable of emotional outbursts as all alignments.

If she is struggling to differentiate between it being legit or staged, you would expect her to have, oh I don't know, been more curious and ask questions about it?

Don't think she is really trying to solve your alignment with that vote and given you're around when she is, that seems inefficient at best...

because at the stage it caught my attention, i was being interrigated and everytime i mentioned something i was basically told to stop until i post my reads.

[M-FM Winston]

From personal experience I suspect that isn't particularly AI as you're capable of emotional outbursts as all alignments.

If she is struggling to differentiate between it being legit or staged, you would expect her to have, oh I don't know, been more curious and ask questions about it?

Don't think she is really trying to solve your alignment with that vote and given you're around when she is, that seems inefficient at best...

This is a good point, @M-FM Pharah

Why didn't you question my emotional outburst at the time it happened/after, why did you wait until today to vote me still without question or reason?

[M-FM Lucio]

Moo.

FK, every single fkin time...

I disagree. Most people are town-reading Tracer because she is contributing a lot and that is fine. However, we can't use that with Calix because she will just spam and spam thoughts even if she's Mafia so... yeah. Hard to read.

Ia that your read then? Cuz I'm not reading her so off contribution at all.

[M-FM Tracer]

because at the stage it caught my attention, i was being interrigated and everytime i mentioned something i was basically told to stop until i post my reads.

In literally no world does being told "complete list of reads pls" stop you from scum-hunting in the meantime. You clearly have the time to complain about not being able to post when you could have used that to like, push players at the same time?

[M-FM Widowmaker]

I disagree. Most people are town-reading Tracer because she is contributing a lot and that is fine. However, we can't use that with Calix because she will just spam and spam thoughts even if she's Mafia so... yeah. Hard to read.

This is true and quite possibly the first good point you've made all game.

[M-FM Winston]

I disagree. Most people are town-reading Tracer because she is contributing a lot and that is fine. However, we can't use that with Calix because she will just spam and spam thoughts even if she's Mafia so... yeah. Hard to read.

First, you're proving my point. Contribution =/= town.

That's not why I'm personally townreading Tracer. If anyone is townreading her based on contribution alone they are just bad mafia players.

Second, look at the context. What the hell does your post have to do with Widowmakers mini defense of "at least I'm contributing"????

[M-FM Tracer]

This is true and quite possibly the first good point you've made all game.

But his point contradicts with your "at least I'm contributing" post since you imply contribution should make you exempt from being trained...?

[M-FM Pharah]

This is a good point, @M-FM Pharah

Why didn't you question my emotional outburst at the time it happened/after, why did you wait until today to vote me still without question or reason?

questioning you at the time would of done nothing but worsen whatever you was doing. much better to wait and see the result.

[M-FM Widowmaker]

In literally no world does being told "complete list of reads pls" stop you from scum-hunting in the meantime. You clearly have the time to complain about not being able to post when you could have used that to like, push players at the same time?

You're getting a little obsessive here. I do have events to attend, as did the other Widowmaker, who had to replace out for such reasons. We can't all spare as much time as you can.

[M-FM Widowmaker]

But his point contradicts with your "at least I'm contributing" post since you imply contribution should make you exempt from being trained...?

But your train on me is based on my contribution.

[M-FM Zenyatta]

FK, every single fkin time...


Ia that your read then? Cuz I'm not reading her so off contribution at all.

Well, I was reading her as complete town but now that I've realised that she could perfectly be scum I'm scared and she has changed to null-slight town. She could easy flip and become scum in my mind but I don't see that happening unless she fucks up.

[M-FM Tracer]

You're getting a little obsessive here. I do have events to attend, as did the other Widowmaker, who had to replace out for such reasons. We can't all spare as much time as you can.

Saying "you could have pushed other players while you're around while we wait for your reads" =/= great time commitment.

Literally nowhere did I suggest that people should dedicate more time to the game.

[M-FM Widowmaker]

But your train on me is based on my contribution.

That's how I'm reading it, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

[M-FM Pharah]

In literally no world does being told "complete list of reads pls" stop you from scum-hunting in the meantime. You clearly have the time to complain about not being able to post when you could have used that to like, push players at the same time?

<--- being targeted for pressure. so i have to reply to that pressure first, otherwise i will get accused of ignoring it. then i can concentrate on making that read list because that is important for everyone else. then i can carry on scum hunting.

i can not scum hunt on mobile and on the move whilst being questioned. as it requires digging through past posts. but i can repplay to a post just made at me.

[M-FM Zenyatta]

First, you're proving my point. Contribution =/= town.

That's not why I'm personally townreading Tracer. If anyone is townreading her based on contribution alone they are just bad mafia players.

Second, look at the context. What the hell does your post have to do with Widowmakers mini defense of "at least I'm contributing"????

Why are you reading Tracer as town then? And I answered to your post, not to shit related to Widowmaker.

[M-FM Reaper]

only one other person has said they think mei is scum.

You're gunna have to quote that son.

[M-FM Tracer]

That's how I'm reading it, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

That's part of it, yes.

Plus my theory on the Mercy train plus the numerous flaws in your current posts, plus the fact that you're a replacement and thus pressuring you now while you're off-guard = good plan imo.

<--- being targeted for pressure. so i have to reply to that pressure first, otherwise i will get accused of ignoring it. then i can concentrate on making that read list because that is important for everyone else. then i can carry on scum hunting.

i can not scum hunt on mobile and on the move whilst being questioned. as it requires digging through past posts. but i can repplay to a post just made at me.

You can do both though.

Why do you care about how you're seen when you admitted that your playstyle up until now prevented anyone from reading you properly...?

[M-FM Widowmaker]

Yes, and it's easier to see your thoughts when you give a complete list of reads like we've asked for. That is what's missing at the moment and until you post that, everything else (in this discussion) is fluff.

Don't bore me with "but I'm busy right now" and actually get thinking about those reads, please. I can wait.

If you look at it...

You tell Pharah to make a reads list.
Then, when Pharah stops in to actually contribute,

In literally no world does being told "complete list of reads pls" stop you from scum-hunting in the meantime. You clearly have the time to complain about not being able to post when you could have used that to like, push players at the same time?

You need to stop, you need to chill. Take a 5-10 minute break, come back. I'm going to do this now too, and when I'm back on Ill be on a comp, meaning easier answers and a legitimate defense.

I'd be much more willing to answer the questions if you stopped the condescension also.

[M-FM Tracer]

If you look at it...

You tell Pharah to make a reads list.
Then, when Pharah stops in to actually contribute,

You need to stop, you need to chill. Take a 5-10 minute break, come back. I'm going to do this now too, and when I'm back on Ill be on a comp, meaning easier answers and a legitimate defense.

I'd be much more willing to answer the questions if you stopped the condescension also.

I'd consider very few of Pharah's posts to be 'actually' contributing so please tell me which posts meet that criteria for you.

I've been civil for the most part save for a handful of snide comments. Again, you can scum-hunt and work on a reads list at the same time. It's called multi-tasking.

Being condescending, as you put it, doesn't have any indication on my alignment and shouldn't affect your response to legitimate criticism.

[M-FM Widowmaker]

That's part of it, yes.

Plus my theory on the Mercy train plus the numerous flaws in your current posts, plus the fact that you're a replacement and thus pressuring you now while you're off-guard = good plan imo.

You can do both though.

Why do you care about how you're seen when you admitted that your playstyle up until now prevented anyone from reading you properly...?

It's my replacements fault now too?

I should not be held responsible for something my original poster does. it's not my fault that they were unable to participate during the day, and there was not a thing I could do about it, because I sure as hell couldn't post then.

[M-FM Winston]

<--- being targeted for pressure. so i have to reply to that pressure first, otherwise i will get accused of ignoring it. then i can concentrate on making that read list because that is important for everyone else. then i can carry on scum hunting.

i can not scum hunt on mobile and on the move whilst being questioned. as it requires digging through past posts. but i can repplay to a post just made at me.

I make 100% of my posts from mobile. I HATE that excuse every time it comes up. Not AI but stupid

[M-FM Tracer]

It's my replacements fault now too?

I should not be held responsible for something my original poster does. it's not my fault that they were unable to participate during the day, and there was not a thing I could do about it, because I sure as hell couldn't post then.

I've found plenty at fault with your own posts. Acting like I'm voting you JUST because of your predecessor is a oversimplification.

Same slot, same role card.

[M-FM Widowmaker]

because at the stage it caught my attention, i was being interrigated and everytime i mentioned something i was basically told to stop until i post my reads.

I can count the first part of this as contributing.

[M-FM Winston]

Why are you reading Tracer as town then? And I answered to your post, not to shit related to Widowmaker.

Its not for contribution, its for scum hunting in the right places and trying to solve the game.

There are a few things that give me pause but they don't override the overwhelming evidence of town Tracer.

[M-FM Tracer]

I can count the first part of this as contributing.

We must have different standards for contribution if you think one line counts

[M-FM Winston]

Why are you reading Tracer as town then? And I answered to your post, not to shit related to Widowmaker.

Also my post was in response to widowmakers defense so going against it comes off as a defense of widowmaker, even though you ended up agreeing with my point

[M-FM Widowmaker]

I've found plenty at fault with your own posts. Acting like I'm voting you JUST because of your predecessor is a oversimplification.

Same slot, same role card.

The Mercy train is not me, and it shouldn't be a problem that I'm trying to keep the game healthy.

[M-FM Winston]

If you look at it...

You tell Pharah to make a reads list.
Then, when Pharah stops in to actually contribute,




You need to stop, you need to chill. Take a 5-10 minute break, come back. I'm going to do this now too, and when I'm back on Ill be on a comp, meaning easier answers and a legitimate defense.

I'd be much more willing to answer the questions if you stopped the condescension also.

Tracer isn't going to not be condescending. That won't happen. Play the game and don't make dumb excuses like that.

[M-FM Tracer]

The Mercy train is not me, and it shouldn't be a problem that I'm trying to keep the game healthy.

I've found plenty at fault with your own posts. Acting like I'm voting you JUST because of your predecessor is a oversimplification.

Kindly cut it with the whining about how unfair it is that I find your slot scummy due to D1. It's hardly the ironclad case to end them all so it shouldn't be a problem for you to overcome, right?

[M-FM Winston]

It's my replacements fault now too?

I should not be held responsible for something my original poster does. it's not my fault that they were unable to participate during the day, and there was not a thing I could do about it, because I sure as hell couldn't post then.

Uh you represent the same slot. This isn't a court of law where you can throw out evidence based on technicalities.

[M-FM Reaper]

A Sheriff claim is going after their target? Shocking.

This sounds like a "woe is me I can't convince people" speech which is terrible given that a) you have ONE vote and b) you've been defended a fair amount. (ahem)



Yeah it's POSSIBLE that this is a high-risk strategy to gain town cred because he likely won't have to go back to Defense Mode again...but that means he is scum and the burden of proof is on the accuser here.



"acting like town...doesn't mean I think they are scum"

???

Gut reads aren't AI, no need to be self-conscious there.

Question. Why would scum be so blatant in revealing said information?



You don't have to quote when paraphrasing works fine.



Where is the conclusion for this read? Am I scum or not? You don't have anything positive it seems so what makes you conclude I'm not scummy enough to be pushed...?

"something I'd expect from them" - Explain this please.



I agree that they need to work on that but they keep saying "RL" so can't push on that until that's done and dusted.

Although how does being "half-way done" with reads = scum?

Why do you say you THOUGHT they were scum - what changed?



Why do you give a flying fuck about wherever it LOOKS good for you? More self-consciousness.

If you think lurkers are scum, then that should mean they're fucking scum in your eyes. Town's job isn't to get perfectly town-read.



Yeah I don't see why revealing your COM would matter although it is becoming more obvious by the moment.

Bitch, you're a glorified Citizen. How is that 'frustrating' when you just do townie shit and hope scum NK you for being active? What even is this logic.



What differentiates Zenyatta between actual dumb town and scum pretending? Seems like a subtle line to take.



He did say his D1 play would suck one.



Please do.

This gives Tracer some Townie pts in my book.

I had a number of issues with This post by Hanzo (post 2023). It looks like they are just using easy arguments to defend themselves rather than what actually happened. A key not to me here is that he said he didn't like the Symmetra wagon cuz of who was on it, but looking back, Junkrat, Torb and another semi-lurker were on that wagon who he says he has as Town and I am Scum reading all three.

[M-FM Reaper]

Hello... I am quite disappointed that the wagon changed to mercy when in a game with 5 mafia the first train has a much higher likelihood of being mafia than a changed one... No idea who scum read mercy and why but at least some town jumped on the wagon. At the moment bastion seems like our clearest bet to be scum.

-vote M-FM Bastion

Yo, we already have quite a lot of wagons and Bastion's is unlikely to get traction at this time.

Care to give your thoughts on the other trains?

There are 2 days left and with 4 hours left mercy wasn't a wagon but ended up getting 11 votes...

This looks like TvT to me.

[M-FM Hanzo]

Okay, I don't have a lot of time, so I will get to your post Tracer. And I will do the Winston ISO like I said.

Reaper, two things.

1.) I did not say McCree or JunkRat were town, I specifically said I thought all the lurkers were scum.
2.) you flipped from highly town reading me to jumping on me. Usually players won't flip that badly unless your only following Lucio.

I'm Unknown for those who didn't it out yeT.

[M-FM Reaper]

Hello... I am quite disappointed that the wagon changed to mercy when in a game with 5 mafia the first train has a much higher likelihood of being mafia than a changed one... No idea who scum read mercy and why but at least some town jumped on the wagon. At the moment bastion seems like our clearest bet to be scum.

-vote M-FM Bastion

Yo, we already have quite a lot of wagons and Bastion's is unlikely to get traction at this time.

Care to give your thoughts on the other trains?

I'm not budging until Reaper drops the false dilemma.

Consider my vote there once he does. -pseudo vote Widowmaker

I'm going to move away in any case.

-vote M-FM Widowmaker

Former lurker and replacement = optimal player to pressure.

More likely to fuck up if they're evil and they fit the profile of the AFK scum for my Mercy-train theory.

Surely there are better options than Widowmaker, right? Like why not Torb? Or Junkrat?

[M-FM Tracer]

Surely there are better options than Widowmaker, right? Like why not Torb? Or Junkrat?

Nah, Widowmaker is 100% valid as an option. This isn't just me blindly picking in the dark. I feel like that's important to note before anyone generalises it as "lol lurker pressure"

If you want to vote Junkrat I am all for that as well as my reasons for finding him shady are at SOD when I voted him.

Torbjorn's posts don't feel scum-motivated to me, wouldn't support his train tbh.

[M-FM Reaper]

Nah, Widowmaker is 100% valid as an option. This isn't just me blindly picking in the dark. I feel like that's important to note before anyone generalises it as "lol lurker pressure"

If you want to vote Junkrat I am all for that as well as my reasons for finding him shady are at SOD when I voted him.

Torbjorn's posts don't feel scum-motivated to me, wouldn't support his train tbh.

The thing about Torb is that I can just read every post as being either Town OR Scum and I don't like that one bit. On top of that I don't like their tone at all. I raised a point on Torb to soldier that was basically that Torb was shitty most of Day one but then got proactive during the EOD, dropped a "this is what we all need to do" and then hammered.

[M-FM Tracer]

The thing about Torb is that I can just read every post as being either Town OR Scum and I don't like that one bit. On top of that I don't like their tone at all. I raised a point on Torb to soldier that was basically that Torb was shitty most of Day one but then got proactive during the EOD, dropped a "this is what we all need to do" and then hammered.

Valid reason to be suspicious of a player although looking at the WIFOM minefield of Bastion, Torbjorn, Roadhog, Reinhardt, Symmetra, etc it's hard for me to pick out the scum for certain.

Aforementioned players are fucking with my reads a bit because they make it hard to see the bigger picture in terms of gauging who is the most likely to be scum. Which is why I'm not inclined towards Torbjorn at the moment as he has shown more potential to be town than a fair few others.

Does this mean that you think we should pick a particular mode tonight/ avoid this one because of how he orchestrated it?

Given you seem to have pulled your head out of your arse from earlier, I am less inclined to think you're scum. Pharah/ Junkrat/ Widowmaker is a team I am mulling over at the moment but given the latter two do not talk much, it's hard to look at associations

[M-FM Torbjorn]

No one really had a problem with the outcome of my orchestration. We're going to offense tonight, and I'll do the same thing I did yesterday with the stages, as I still think it could be a good thing later on.