S-FM 200: Mafia Wars II

[SexyDucK]

While she's gone, can you answer this, Duck ?

1v1 vs bcd was two anti town roles when we did not know there were no other anti town role claims.

Now the 1v1 is because one of them is lieing about roleblock. THERE IS a hit between kovath/g4 which is why im willing to lynch kovath right now despite not wanting to.

[Borderline Crazy Dealers]

vote him right now and i will hammer, you have one chance.

-vote Kovath

[SexyDucK]

-vote kovath

[The Godfather]

Kovath has been lynched! Stand by for the host's review and day-end post!


Kovath (5 [L-0]): Borderline Crazy Dealers, Rurouni Kenshin, Sino, G4slight, SexyDucK
G4slight (1 [L-4]): Kovath

[MattZed]

IT IS NOW NIGHT 3

July 7th, 1960

Another swift murder.

Kovath, a Drug Dealer, has been lynched.

He had some last words:

Fuck you.

Please lynch G4slight.

Living Players: powerofdeath Borderline Crazy Dealers Rurouni Kenshin G4slight Fatalis SexyDucK God Emperor Trudeau Sino Dead/Incarcerated Players: MattZed - Corrupt Mayor Unknown1234 - Drug Dealer Logically Insane - Kidnapper Shifty - Tailor Voss - FBI Agent Kovath - Drug Dealer

Night 3 Ends in 24 hours.

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DAYS HOURS MINUTES SECONDS

[MattZed]

IT IS NOW DAY 4

July 8th, 1960

The War was evidently not over.

God Emperor Trudeau, the Godfather, has been murdered by a Luciano.

He had some last words:

The internet has never made me so angry in my life until this game. You are all so disrespectful to the people that actually wanted to play this game and wanted to have fun. The fact that day 1 had 2000+ posts is beyond insane, COMING FROM THE QUEEN OF SHIT POSTING HOW THE HELL DO YOU EXPECT ME TO GIVE ANY SORT OF INPUT IF I CANT EVEN READ. I REFUSE TO READ 2000+ POSTS, IT IS NOT NECESSARY.

Duck + Grylander, the fact that we are supposed to be working as a team in this game and you both act like you're the leader, is beyond disgusting. You and I both know you both have no leadership qualities.

My partner and I reveal and you guys don't even have the decency to take our input. You lynch at 10AM in the morning when both of us have lives and should respected enough to at least get some sleep. THERE IS NO WAY 2 DAYS IN A ROW SHOULD A LYNCH BE DONE 1/4 INTO THE DAY.

I REALLY HOPE AFTER THIS GAME YOU ALL SEND MY PARTNER EGGY HERE AN APOLOGY! As a new player on this site, I think its rather embarrassing for all you FM pros to be total disrespectful assholes and not even try to help this guy with his game or skills.

I never want to play an FM game again.

Living Players: powerofdeath Borderline Crazy Dealers Rurouni Kenshin G4slight Fatalis SexyDucK Sino Dead/Incarcerated Players: MattZed - Corrupt Mayor Unknown1234 - Drug Dealer Logically Insane - Kidnapper Shifty - Tailor Voss - FBI Agent Kovath - Drug Dealer God Emperor Trudeau - Godfather

Day 4 Ends in 48 hours.

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DAYS HOURS MINUTES SECONDS

4 votes to hammer.

[Sino]

Ok, Fatalis, could we know who you checked and what the result was ?

[Sino]

Same goes to PoD if he ever posts here ofc

[Sino]

@G4slight Who did you block tonight ?

[Borderline Crazy Dealers]

-vote g4slight

[Sino]

-vote g4slight

Maybe we should tak before voting

[Sino]

Is there another reason to read G4 as scum besides that 1v1 ?

[Borderline Crazy Dealers]

Maybe we should tak before voting

You're being overly cautious. Putting him at L-3 is not even a dangerous thing.

[Borderline Crazy Dealers]

And gaslight has been a bit nonexistent this game

There's only one reason why I would vote someone else over gaslight today. It requires both POD and Fatalis to report in.

[Sino]

And gaslight has been a bit nonexistent this game

There's only one reason why I would vote someone else over gaslight today. It requires both POD and Fatalis to report in.

When Duck asked me about what roles could be chosen by the scum, i was thinking it makes no sense for them not to chose a tailor, what do you think about that ? Do you trust Kovath's flip ?

[G4slight]

@G4slight Who did you block tonight ?

I blocked PoD last night

Also guys I have to believe that the scum have at least a tailor as one of their roles. Since no one else has came out as consort and I did not block Kovath night 1. That leads me to believe that he was in fact a Luciano. I believe BCD is town since I don't realistically see scum choosing DD as a role.

Duck is confirmed town

Which leads Ruroni, PoD, Fatalis, Sino to be where the last Luciano is

[G4slight]

And gaslight has been a bit nonexistent this game

There's only one reason why I would vote someone else over gaslight today. It requires both POD and Fatalis to report in.

Also I've been here, I've just chosen not to participate in a lot of the needless back and forth such as what happened on day 2. But I have been active. Not sure where the non existent thing came from.

[Sino]

I blocked PoD last night

Also guys I have to believe that the scum have at least a tailor as one of their roles. Since no one else has came out as consort and I did not block Kovath night 1. That leads me to believe that he was in fact a Luciano. I believe BCD is town since I don't realistically see scum choosing DD as a role.

Duck is confirmed town

Which leads Ruroni, PoD, Fatalis, Sino to be where the last Luciano is

At this point, i'll just post my lw :

Spoiler : Last Will :

If there's only one town death tonight, it will be 4v3, town didn't lose yet.

I asked MZ, no role can self target, but Duck asked me what role i think the Luciano have : i think it's one Underboss : Kovath and one tailor : Fatalis, i'm sure of it. The plan would be for Kovath to counterclaim whoever claims first d1 before getting lynched, having Fatalis tailor Kovath as that role town alignment, and finally having Kovath giving Fatalis his underboss informations during night.

Two things support my theory :

-Why did Fatalis only have ONE relevant clue ? Sure it could be bad luck, but think about how Kovath could have had only ONE check if he was underboss

-Why didn't Fatalis also check Shifty night 1 ? Checking the guy who was almost lynched is way townier imo, in that case you can know if he's fake claiming the next day, when he most likely will be suspected again.

And PLEASE, think about any reason scum wouldn't chose to have a tailor on their team, there isn't any, it's completely safe to assume they have a tailor, making Kovath's flip unreliable. Last Mafia Wars game, both of them chose tailor.

The problem is : everyone revealed themselves, so there's no point in asking Fatalis for his checks now...

Now about cult, Voss might really have failed his n1 recruit, we'll see how many night kills there are, there also could be a mole trying to remain hidden and chosing not to kill. In any case, it's not a good idea to trust his lw, town shouldn't care about cult right know, focus on the Lucianos.

I still doubt a Luciano would chose Drug dealer as a role at the beginning of the game, and confirm himself to the gf, where's the scum motivation in that ?

I'm most likely gonna die tonight, so town, BE VERY CAREFUL ABOUT YOUR LYNCH, IT'S MYLO, wait for the 48 hours to be almost over this time.

I'm reading Fatalis as scum for :

-his defense of Kovath, that behavior, overly defending another player is plain scummy.

-this :

Also, what were your actions?

#3764

That is a PROOF Fatalis is scum, what would town gain from this information ? The kills happened anyways, i just didn't protect the attacked person, only scum would benefit from that information.

-him scum reading Kovath d1, up until he claimed without voting, and then magically proceeds to town read and defend him for the rest of the game, when there actually were way more reasons to scum ream Kovath

Thoughts ?

[Sino]

Note that it also explains why Kovath would counterclaim DD d1 as opposed to just vote

[G4slight]

Note that it also explains why Kovath would counterclaim DD d1 as opposed to just vote

I do agree that there has to be tailor based on Kovath flipping DD, since all roles claimed and there's no other consort.

I also believe that BCD, and Duck are conf town basically. Since like you said I don't see Luciano choosing DD as a role.

I would like to hear more from Fatalis today that is for sure I haven't done an ISO on him to get the full context but I will do so this evening.

[Sino]

@Borderline Crazy Dealers What do you think about my last will ?

[Borderline Crazy Dealers]

When Duck asked me about what roles could be chosen by the scum, i was thinking it makes no sense for them not to chose a tailor, what do you think about that ? Do you trust Kovath's flip ?

Could be tailored but I thought about it and its weird for Kovath to claim that he was blocked without knowing if a consort was in the game.

If we let gaslight go, we have ni certainty if the lynch was a tailored town flip or not, but if we lynch gaslight we know that we have hit af least 1 scum no matter what. Gaslight should be the lynch, but of course we need to hear from Fatalis as well first.

I blocked PoD last night

Also guys I have to believe that the scum have at least a tailor as one of their roles. Since no one else has came out as consort and I did not block Kovath night 1. That leads me to believe that he was in fact a Luciano. I believe BCD is town since I don't realistically see scum choosing DD as a role.

Duck is confirmed town

Which leads Ruroni, PoD, Fatalis, Sino to be where the last Luciano is

Of course you're going to say this. Its the only way for you to survive, but 99% chance that doesn't happen. You are being lynched today.

[Borderline Crazy Dealers]

Sino, underboss/tailor combo of Kovath and Fatalis means Kovath had claimed being roleblocked n1 without actual knowledge of a roleblocker being in the game.

I thought it over and I don't think its that likely. Its still possible that gaslight is one scum and kovath may have been tailored and may have been other team scum.

Either way it looks like gaslight lied and he should be lynched. It's the most logical lynch today.

[Sino]

Could be tailored but I thought about it and its weird for Kovath to claim that he was blocked without knowing if a consort was in the game.

If we let gaslight go, we have ni certainty if the lynch was a tailored town flip or not, but if we lynch gaslight we know that we have hit af least 1 scum no matter what. Gaslight should be the lynch, but of course we need to hear from Fatalis as well first.

If Kovath was tailored, he had no choice but to claim roleblocked, since he wasn't a DD.

[G4slight]

Could be tailored but I thought about it and its weird for Kovath to claim that he was blocked without knowing if a consort was in the game.

If we let gaslight go, we have ni certainty if the lynch was a tailored town flip or not, but if we lynch gaslight we know that we have hit af least 1 scum no matter what. Gaslight should be the lynch, but of course we need to hear from Fatalis as well first.



Of course you're going to say this. Its the only way for you to survive, but 99% chance that doesn't happen. You are being lynched today.

I know this is huge WIFOM but what motivation would I have to overtly push Kovath who was the obvious lynch as yesterday if I was Luciano? It just doesn't make sense

[Borderline Crazy Dealers]

If gaslight flips town we can assume that there IS a tailor and that either kovath or gaslight was tailored

See this is why tailors fucking suck. Don't use them in future games.

[Borderline Crazy Dealers]

If Kovath was tailored, he had no choice but to claim roleblocked, since he wasn't a DD.

If gaslight flips town we'll know there is a tailor and we went 1/2 scum in those two lynches. No way both Kovath and gaslight are both town.

If we don't lynch gaslight we are assuming that a scum tailor exists, where if a scum tailor doesn't exist then that means we are letting a scum off the hook.

[G4slight]

Sino, underboss/tailor combo of Kovath and Fatalis means Kovath had claimed being roleblocked n1 without actual knowledge of a roleblocker being in the game.

I thought it over and I don't think its that likely. Its still possible that gaslight is one scum and kovath may have been tailored and may have been other team scum.

Either way it looks like gaslight lied and he should be lynched. It's the most logical lynch today.

He claimed Role block on day 2. Which means the scum team most likely consisted of an underboss and tailor. If there was no town consort he still had his scum mate to fall back on and claim as the consort if worse came to worse.

-vote Fatalis

There has to be an underboss/tailor combo in the game. Since I blocked PoD last night and Kovath is lynched it has to be Fatalis

[Borderline Crazy Dealers]

I know this is huge WIFOM but what motivation would I have to overtly push Kovath who was the obvious lynch as yesterday if I was Luciano? It just doesn't make sense

It doesn't make sense for a town consort to roleblock Kovath twice if he's town

You were outted as consort and could have saw a short tunnel and decided to get him lynched first.

We've already gone over the question of what motivation would town Kovath have to claim DD to get unknown lynched. You both can't be town though and until we see an actual scum tailor flip we can't assume that they have a tailor. If you flip town we know they do.

[G4slight]

It doesn't make sense for a town consort to roleblock Kovath twice if he's town

You were outted as consort and could have saw a short tunnel and decided to get him lynched first.

We've already gone over the question of what motivation would town Kovath have to claim DD to get unknown lynched. You both can't be town though and until we see an actual scum tailor flip we can't assume that they have a tailor. If you flip town we know they do.

He could counter claim DD as scum and be tailored by his scum buddy.

You are saying it doesn't make sense to block him N1. I didn't I only blocked him N2 N1 I refrained from blocking.

[Borderline Crazy Dealers]

He claimed Role block on day 2. Which means the scum team most likely consisted of an underboss and tailor. If there was no town consort he still had his scum mate to fall back on and claim as the consort if worse came to worse.

-vote Fatalis

There has to be an underboss/tailor combo in the game. Since I blocked PoD last night and Kovath is lynched it has to be Fatalis

Sorry but Fatalis isn't being lynched yet. You had a 1v1 with Kovath and he flipped town. Even if tailored its illogical to lynch outside of that 1v1 yet until we see a tailor flip somewhere. Your death guarantees a scum death. We can't afford another mislynch I'd Kovath is town

[Borderline Crazy Dealers]

He could counter claim DD as scum and be tailored by his scum buddy.

You are saying it doesn't make sense to block him N1. I didn't I only blocked him N2 N1 I refrained from blocking.

No matter what you say the 1v1 hasn't been resolved yet.

[Sino]

If gaslight flips town we'll know there is a tailor and we went 1/2 scum in those two lynches. No way both Kovath and gaslight are both town.

If we don't lynch gaslight we are assuming that a scum tailor exists, where if a scum tailor doesn't exist then that means we are letting a scum off the hook.

You do have a point here.

Also, G4, WHY would you not roleblock Fatalis n3 when he was the one defending Kovath ?

[G4slight]

Sorry but Fatalis isn't being lynched yet. You had a 1v1 with Kovath and he flipped town. Even if tailored its illogical to lynch outside of that 1v1 yet until we see a tailor flip somewhere. Your death guarantees a scum death. We can't afford another mislynch I'd Kovath is town

You were also in a 1v1 with Kovath

[G4slight]

You do have a point here.

Also, G4, WHY would you not roleblock Fatalis n3 when he was the one defending Kovath ?

I was going off of Voss's last will calling out PoD as scum

[Borderline Crazy Dealers]

You were also in a 1v1 with Kovath

Yes I was but the 1v1 I was in never guaranteed a scum lynch. Since what you ans Kovath were saying were in direct contradiction to each other (one of you lied) that guarantees a scum in one of you.

You are also reading me as town so this just screams as a deflection.

[Borderline Crazy Dealers]

I was going off of Voss's last will calling out PoD as scum

You wete trusting the last will of a scum?

[Sino]

Now, Banana what if G4 flips scum consort ?

Yes, we would have lynched a scum and a town, but i'd be assuming G4 got tailored as scum consort.

In the end, it would still be back to where we are now

[Borderline Crazy Dealers]

Gaslight's logic is that Kovath had to be tailored, making POD town because a Luciano kill still occurred. If we lynch gaslight and he flips town, that means Fatalis is then lynched after that and the game should end in town victory, assuming there is no mole.

If gaslight flips scum, gaslight + POD is extremely likely.

Either way gaslight is the optimal lynch for today.

[Borderline Crazy Dealers]

Now, Banana what if G4 flips scum consort ?

Yes, we would have lynched a scum and a town, but i'd be assuming G4 got tailored as scum consort.

In the end, it would still be back to where we are now

If he was tailored as scum that means Kovath was tailored as town. We are still guaranteeing a scum lynch either way.

[Borderline Crazy Dealers]

If he was tailored as scum that means Kovath was tailored as town. We are still guaranteeing a scum lynch either way.

The reason being is if either gaslight or kovath is town, the other is scum, no natter what

[G4slight]

You wete trusting the last will of a scum?

He was cult. So he didn't win the lucianos.

Also yes I am town reading you. I think you are the closest to conf town after duck. Just saying you were in a 1v1 with Kovath and I'm not pushing against you. It's not a deflection, also if beg to differ I think the chance of there actually being 3 town dealers remote at best so yes to me, out of you two we were guaranteed at least one scum

[Sino]

If he was tailored as scum that means Kovath was tailored as town. We are still guaranteeing a scum lynch either way.

Gaslight's logic is that Kovath had to be tailored, making POD town because a Luciano kill still occurred. If we lynch gaslight and he flips town, that means Fatalis is then lynched after that and the game should end in town victory, assuming there is no mole.

If gaslight flips scum, gaslight + POD is extremely likely.

Either way gaslight is the optimal lynch for today.

Yes, but on the offchance Fatalis tailored G4 as scum (which is really likely considering Kovath's lw), you'd then lynch POD and lose the game

[Borderline Crazy Dealers]

He was cult. So he didn't win the lucianos.

Also yes I am town reading you. I think you are the closest to conf town after duck. Just saying you were in a 1v1 with Kovath and I'm not pushing against you. It's not a deflection, also if beg to differ I think the chance of there actually being 3 town dealers remote at best so yes to me, out of you two we were guaranteed at least one scum

Not guaranteed. That's a misleading statement.

Out of YOU two we are guaranteed a scum because someone lied and you contradict each other Your lynch helps to resolve that. If you are town, from your point of view its easy to say there's a tailor. The rest of us cannot be assured of that until you flip.

Again, this is why tailors such ass in games

[Sino]

What about Calix's strong case on Kovath, Fatalis being overly defensive of Kovath after scum reading him d1 and Kovath NEVER being confirmed as a DD ?

What about Calix's claim about the impossibility of having 3 town DD's in the game ?

[Borderline Crazy Dealers]

Suck ass

[G4slight]

Not guaranteed. That's a misleading statement.

Out of YOU two we are guaranteed a scum because someone lied and you contradict each other Your lynch helps to resolve that. If you are town, from your point of view its easy to say there's a tailor. The rest of us cannot be assured of that until you flip.

Again, this is why tailors such ass in games

As Sino said, what if I was tailored last night? Sure you hit a town and a scum, but you don't logically guarantee a tailor 100%

[Sino]

Again, this is why tailors such ass in games

And that's exactly the reason why i'm assuming there is one, is that assumption that unsafe ?

[Borderline Crazy Dealers]

Yes, but on the offchance Fatalis tailored G4 as scum (which is really likely considering Kovath's lw), you'd then lynch POD and lose the game

POD + gaslight is likely, not set in stone. We have to review things at that point.

What about Calix's strong case on Kovath, Fatalis being overly defensive of Kovath after scum reading him d1 and Kovath NEVER being confirmed as a DD ?

What about Calix's claim about the impossibility of having 3 town DD's in the game ?

Part of mafia is acknowledging that there is a possibility that you were wrong. Town is uninformed so while we were certain Kovath was scum we couldn't know for sure until the game is over.

[Borderline Crazy Dealers]

As Sino said, what if I was tailored last night? Sure you hit a town and a scum, but you don't logically guarantee a tailor 100%

I'm not looking to logically guarantee a tailor. I'm looking to guarantee scum is lynched. If we lynch today someone that is a mislynch instead if lynching you and you are scum, we let ourselves lose the game over paranoia that a scum tailor may exist. We only logically guarentee a tailor exists if you flip town

And that's exactly the reason why i'm assuming there is one, is that assumption that unsafe ?

1 - There is no guarantee that a scum tailor even exists, and

2 - There is no guarantee that said tailor tailored Kovath.

I won't let paranoia over a role that isn't confirmed to exist detract from the logical lynch and lose because of it.